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wanted, binding myself and not them, although I wish to say I am convinced they are heartily in accord with the principles-with the principles-that I have enunciated.

The CHAIRMAN. Is Mr. Swift here? I had a message from you that you desired to be heard.

Mr. SWIFT. I am surprised to hear it.

The CHAIRMAN. Are you from North Carolina?
Mr. SWIFT. I am.

The CHAIRMAN. You do not desire to be heard?

Mr. SWIFT. Not in opposition to the bill. I may at some time later desire to be heard in favor of it.

Mr. HERSEY. You favor the bill, do you?

Mr. SWIFT. Yes, sir; very much. I happen to be from the State where the two test cases came up.

The CHAIRMAN. I am trying to call everybody who desires to be heard. Is Mr. David Clark present?


Mr. CLARK. I did not know until Monday of these hearings. Two Congressmen had stated they would advise me when they began, but they failed to do so. Therefore, I could not bring the witnesses I desired to introduce. I would like to ask the committee to give me a hearing on Thursday of next week. One of the members of the committee has stated that he would like to have facts instead of theories, and I think I can give them some facts.

Mr. HERSEY. On behalf of or against the bill?

Mr. CLARK. Against the bill.

Mr. HERSEY. You say you are a textile manufacturer?

Mr. CLARK. I am editor of a textile publication.

Mr. HERSEY. Then you are in favor of the manufacturers of your State in their desire, I presume?

Mr. CLARK. I have not stated what their desire was; neither have they stated.

Mr. HERSEY. Are your witnesses for the bill or against the bill?

Mr. CLARK. The witnesses will be against the bill. I would like to have a chance to present the witnesses, to present the statistics contrary to these that have been given. Unfortunately, I understand the statistics that have already been given will not be printed in time for me to review them.

Mr. FOSTER. Did you ever appear before in these hearings on child labor?

Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.

Mr. FOSTER. You opposed it before?

Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.

Mr. FOSTER. Then you know the nature of those figures on child labor in regard to the textile industry?

Mr. CLARK. I know the manner in which they got them and the manner in which they juggled them.

Mr. FOSTER. I resent your statement that they got them by jugglery. I think it is unfair to this department of the Government to say that, but that is your business. What I am trying to get at, and

what I think the majority of the committee has been anxious for a week to do, is to try to terminate this hearing and to get some bill reported, as one is being in the Senate, and to try to get action at this session of Congress. The last time one was reported out by the Senate. My own feeling is I would hate to put it over to next week, in view of the fact we have been going on for weeks with the hearing, and a member of this committee is from your State, and the hearings have been publicly advertised for weeks.

Mr. CLARK. I did not know there was a member of the committee from my State.

Mr. FOSTER. Is not Mr. Dominick from your State?

Mr. DYER. He is from South Carolina.

Mr. CLARK. I am from North Carolina.

Mr. FOSTER. I have no objection to the hearing going over for a day or two days, to get witnesses from a neighboring State, but I think the members of the committee will bear me out we have been trying for weeks to get some termination of the hearings.

Mr. CLARK. I have no desire to delay the matter in any way, and I would be glad to cooperate with you, but it would be impossible for me to get my witnesses here before that time.

Mr. FOSTER. Did you ever leave a request with the clerk of the committee to be notified?

Mr. CLARK. No, sir. I left a request with my Congressman, Mr. Bulwinkle.

Mr. FOSTER. That does not answer my question. My question was entirely different.

Mr. CLARK. No, I did not leave a request with the clerk. I thought the hearing would be in the Senate first, prior to this hearing, as it was last year. I did not know that the House was going to take it up until after the Senate had finished with it, and that was my impression when I talked with them before.

Mr. LARSON. Are these facts published in the hearing in which you participated before?

Mr. CLARK. Some of them are. We wanted to get some other facts.

Mr. LARSON. Perhaps we can use those.

Mr. CLARK. I think that if the committee proceeds, on the basis of the hearing so far, they will decide on one side of the matter entirely, and I think it is a very important matter, and there has been a propaganda and an absolute misrepresentation. I am speaking now personally, and I have no apologies to make to the Children's Bureau of the Department of Labor. I do not want to violate any propriety of speaking here before your committee, if it is not proper for me to say that, but there has been a campaign of misrepresentation and the public opinion is based on that misrepresentation and not on the facts.

Mr. FOSTER. If you have been an editor of a manufacturers' paper and have followed this for some time and attended the other hearing, you are surely in a position to give to this committee the benefit of your views on it.

Mr. CLARK. It is not my own views that I expect to give you, so much as the views of other witnesses, not manufacturers; but other people who have come in contact with this child-labor problem and

who know more about it, from actual experience, than any other witness who has been before you.

Mr. MICHENER. Along what lines?

Mr. CLARK. Conditions of employment, the health of the child, and the education of the child.

Mr. MICHENER. Do those facts cover a State, a community, or the United States?

Mr. CLARK. I expect to bring them from several different States. Mr. PERLMAN. Could not you get your statement in by Saturday? Mr. CLARK. No, sir; I could not get my witnesses here by that time. Mr. PERLMAN. I mean a written memorandum?

Mr. CLARK. No, sir.

Mr. MICHNER. The facts you are going to bring are going into the necessity of any legislation affecting children along this line? Mr. CLARK. The necessity for Federal legislation; yes, sir. Mr. MICHENER. You are not contesting its constitutionality at all? Mr. CLARK. I do not suppose the question of the constitutionality would arise, if you pass a constitutional amendment.

The CHAIRMAN. What he suggests touches the very core of this matter, which is that Congress ought to report these resolutions to the States only when, in its judgment, there is a necessity for doing so, and his argument is based upon the necessity for Federal legislation.

Mr. MICHENER. I am glad to get that. Of course, my notion was you could introduce testimony here to the end of time and you would not make much difference on the committee as to the necessity for this legislation. If it is on the question of policy, if it is anything on that line, I think it might have some effect; but if you are just going to contend that we do not need legislation to protect children I think it is a waste of time.

Mr. CLARK. I have found out some things by inquiring into these matters and, as I said, I think I can give you some information. Mr. DYER. What testimony are you going to give us?

Mr. CLARK. Testimony in regard to the laws of the several States; testimony in regard to the lack of necessity for Federal legislation, as we see it.

Mr. DYER. Are you going to present statistics to show that children are properly cared for by working in these textile industries now-that they are given an education, that their health is protected, and that they do not need to go to school?

Mr. CLARK. It is testimony along those lines.

Mr. FOSTER. If the chairman will permit, I want to appear to be fair and, if it is agreeable, I move that we adjourn the hearing until Wednesday at 10 o'clock, next week, and then proceed until we get through.

Mr. CLARK. I have a convention which is very important for me to attend, and I would like to be given until Thursday of next week. The CHAIRMAN. If there is no objection, then, that is understood. Mr. DYER. How many witnesses will you have?

Mr. CLARK. I will only have four or five witnesses.

Mr. DYER. How many witnesses do you expect to have here on Thursday?

Mr. CLARK. I can not say definitely. I will not take up more than a day's time, and will probably not take more than the morning. Mr. DYER. You will finish on Thursday?

Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir; very easily, and probably will finish in the morning.

Mr. ĎYER. You will not ask for any further extension?

Mr. CLARK. No, sir; I will not ask for any further extension whatever.

Mr. FOSTER. You will take it up on Thursday and continue until you complete it?

Mr. CLARK. May I ask one other question? I do not know whether I would be proper in doing this; if not, I will withdraw it. During the early part of this year statistics were published by the Childrens' Bureau enumerating certain States, Connecticut and other States, and comparing the number of permits issued to work during January and February, 1922, with those issued during 1923, the comparison being of one period of unemployment and one period of full employment, and thereby showing an increase of 35 per cent. That has gone out over the country. I can not secure those statistics, but would I be permitted to ask the committee to have the Children's Bureau provide you with the same statistics for January and February of 1924?

Mr. FOSTER. I think they are in the committee hearing now.
Mr. CLARK. For 1924?

Mr. FOSTER. There are three years covered by the statistics. Mr. CLARK. I do not think they would be likely to give you the statistics for 1924.

Mr. FOSTER. Probably they have not got them out yet.

Mr. CLARK. Probably there are other reasons why they would not give them.

Mr. FOSTER. Is your paper named the Southern Textile Bulletin? Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.

Mr. FOSTER. Did you have an article in it on January 31, this year, on the Federal child labor law?

Mr. CLARK. I have had a good many, yes.

Mr. CHAIRMAN. Do you think it is proper to ask him that now? Mr. FOSTER. I think it is quite proper.

The CHAIRMAN. Why not wait until he testifies? That is a paper this gentleman handed up to you?

Mr. FOSTER. Yes. I am asking the witness to state whether such an article appeared in his paper.

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Mr. CLARK. If that is the wish of the chairman.

Mr. FOSTER. You refuse to state unless the chairman wishes you to, do you?

Mr. CLARK. I am not making any apologies.

Mr. FOSTER. I am not asking you to make an apology; I am asking you if you wish to identify that as an article appearing in your paper.

Mr. CLARK. If the chairman wishes me to do it, I will do it.

Mr. FOSTER. If you adopt the attitude that you do not want to identify this paper without calling on the chairman for protection, it seems to me that you have a very poor ground on which to base your case.

The CHAIRMAN. Why not let him see what it is.

Mr. FOSTER. No; I will keep it.

The CHAIRMAN. Who is this gentleman who handed it up to you? Mr. FOSTER. This gentleman here is an officer of the child labor movement of the United States.

The CHAIRMAN. In the Labor Department?

Mr. SWIFT. No, sir.


The CHAIRMAN. Whom do you represent here?
Mr. ADRIAANS. I do not represent any organization.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you represent any individuals?
Mr. ADRIAANS. Not beyond myself; no, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Nobody but yourself?

Mr. ADRIAANS. I have studied the matter of constitutional amendments for period of over 30 years, and have been very much interested in the matter of constitutional amendments; I have written a book on the subject, and this naturally appeals to me from an educational standpoint.

The CHAIRMAN. Please be as brief as you can, Mr. Adriaans.

Mr. ADRIAANS. In the last Congress, Senator Wadsworth introduced a resolution, Senate Joint Resolution 40, in which he sought to amend Article V, and I spoke on that resolution, and without repeating what I then said I want to leave the hearing on that resolution with this committee, so as not to repeat now what I said then. The CHAIRMAN. That expresses your view?

Mr. ADRIAANS. Yes, sir. The views I then expressed are not complete as to the subject that is now before this committee, and so with the assent of the committee I would like to supplement what I then said with a brief review that I have written out, which I will leave in the form of a brief with the committee.

Mr. HERSEY. These hearings were in the Senate?

Mr. ADRIAANS. The hearings were in the Senate. I then gave the views I had on Article V. Now that would not complete the pertinency of the subject to the present inquiry; and so in order to supplement what I then said I have here in addition to what is in there, a short brief which is pertinent to the present inquiry, and I would like to put that in.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well.

(The hearing before a subcommittee of the Committee on the Judiciary of the United States Senate was thereupon filed with the committee.)

(The brief submitted by Mr. Adriaans is as follows:)


The object of the resolution is, by constitutional amendment, to obtain Federal control over child labor, its products, and regulation.

The subject has two phases, the economic and the legal.

Taking these up consecutively, it may be noted chronologically that since the enforced expulsion of our progenitors from the Garden of Eden, with the accompanying judgment: "By the sweat of thy brow, thou shalt earn thy bread," it has been incumbent upon mankind to find means of livelihood in order to prevent starvation.

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