JANUARY, 1825.]

Western National Road.

[H. OF P

to the actual state of things? What has already been done in the expenditure of the public funds? Fifteen millions of dollars were expended annually, and what proportion of it went west of the Alleghany Mountain? Go into the States of Kentucky, Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois, and see what proportion of what those States paid into the Treasury, was expended within their own bounds. He would not enumerate the expenditures of the Governmentall must know that almost the whole of them were on this side of the mountains-though the population was not as one to fifteen. The whole of the public money expended in Kentucky would not amount to what the mere collection cost on the east of the Alleghany. Many of the objects of the expenditure had no existence to the West. Your forts, your light-houses, your navy, the whole civil list, with the exception of one or two judges, and the Representatives in Congress, existed to the East, and there went the greater part of all that was expended for the army. What equality was here? It could not be maintained for a moment. But now a great national work was proposed, which, so far as it went, was calculated to make the balance less unequal, and as such it was deserving of the favorable regard of this House. The mere expenditure of the money which this road would cost, would itself be a great benefit to Ohio, and he hoped it was not unjust that they should have a share of the public expenditure, as well as others. The entire sum would not be equal to what was now expended in some small ports on the Atlantic coast. The building of a single frigate would cost as much as the whole road now asked for. He did not wish to be understood as complaining of the expenditures to the East; he had himself always been in favor of anthorizing whatever was needed for the national welfare-he had supported the appropriation for the Navy, as well as those for fortifications -so have the Western members in general, although they might, in some sense, be said to be uninterested in those expenditures. They viewed them as tending to the common benefit of the nation, and they had cheerfully supported them. Mr. Cook, of Illinois, then rose, and observed, that he should not say any thing in addition to what had fallen from the gentleman from Ohio, (Mr. BEECHER,) respecting the national expenditure east of the mountains. Independent of that consideration entirely, the Western States had a claim upon the General Government, for the road now proposed, and not only for so much of it as was now proposed, but for its Continuation quite to the Mississippi. But, as the Representative of the State of Illinois, Mr. C. said he could not consent that so much of the two per cent. on the sale of public lands, as was set apart for the benefit of that State, He was surprised to find that gentleman limshould go to be expended at so great a distance iting his views as he had done, and narrowing from it. He would not, indeed, adopt the prin- himself into a mere agent for the State of Illiciples and spirit of Shylock, in pressing the bond nois. If every gentleman on this floor is to act of the General Government to the State he rep-on such a principle, this House will be convertresented, but as its Representative, he could ed into a body of disorganizers, and its acts

never give his vote to take a fund pledged for her benefit, and lay it out on so distant an object as a road of eighty miles from Wheeling to Zanesville, in the State of Ohio. He would not take what the munificence of the General Government (for he would call it by that name) had set apart to make a road to Indiana, Illinois, and Missouri, to be spent on a road, which did not approach either of them; nor would he consent that money, granted for the road now proposed, should be charged on that fund. Indiana had surrendered her rights as a sovereign State, (the right to tax lands for five years after sale,) on condition that Congress would apply two per cent. on the sale of public lands to the construction of roads leading to the State. For his own part, he was not so sanguine as to the prospect of seeing a great national turnpike completed, as the gentleman from Ohio seemed to be. He did not expect that that object would be accomplished in his lifetime, should he reach the ordinary age of man. Nor was he willing to postpone the road to his own State till that national object was accomplished, and the present generation had passed away; and he had long since made up his mind not to vote for the appropriation of any more money which was to be charged on the two per cent. fund, unless it went to carry the road entirely through. Congress had appropriated two per cent. to the making of a road leading to Illinois. The gentleman from Ohio proposes to pledge it for a road three hundred miles short of the bounds of Illinois. I will not consent to this. If I did, I should be censured, and justly, by those who sent me here as the guardian of their interests. The Legislatures of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Missouri, had each passed resolutions, calling on Congress for an appropriation to this object—it was an object of deep interest to all those States, and he should be departing from the instructions of his constituents, if he gave his vote for a road in Ohio only.

Mr. BEECHER rose in reply-he declared himself to be disappointed, both in the quarter from which opposition had arisen, and in the principle on which it was founded. He thought he had stated, when first up, with sufficient distinctness, that the appropriation for this part of the road was a matter entirely distinct from the two per cent. reserved from the proceeds of the public lands. The gentleman from Illinois cannot but know that that is already pledged, and already expended; it had been laid out on a road "toward" the State of Illinois, which was the very language of the very act pledging it. He would not, however, cavil about this little two per cent. fund-he wished to place the present measure on a broad national basis-on the general principle of internal improvement.

、

H. OF R.]

Western National Road.

[JANUARY, 1825.

[Here Mr. J. quoted the act of 1819.] The compact with Indiana was not similar in its terms to that with Ohio-it prescribed a specific location for the road-but the appropria tion could not be obtained on any other condition. Two years since a bill was introduced into the House to repair the Cumberland road

must tend, not to union and national strength, | viso, the effect of which was completely to vio but to separation and national weakness-it late a contract with the State of Indiana. was by adopting larger and more noble principles that this nation was to grow and flourish. The gentleman insists on a road that shall reach Illinois-but how will he get it there? on the mere two per cent. fund? That whole fund was not sufficient to make the road through one county in Indiana-it would not even mark the road through that State-if this road is to be and he had offered an amendment to it, with gone on with at all, it is to be done on the the express view of removing the restriction funds of the nation, and not on a pittance of a imposed on the fund by the act of 1819; two per cent. fund. The gentleman wants to which, however, he was induced, by the solici lay out a grand national road 500 miles long, on tations of his friends, to withdraw-he had ala fund that will never raise one million of ways thought, however, that the Government dollars; no, not more than $700,000. But kept bad faith with the State of Indiana. He $1,600,000 has already been expended, on this had a reason and an object in wishing that the same fund, whether properly or not, is not the road may be located, and opened afterward. question. No, sir, said Mr. B., I ask gentle- The whole of the fund pledged has been exmen, and I ask that gentleman, to meet me on pended, and the road for which it was first principles upon which alone either he or I can pledged is not even located. The State of Inbe benefited in this matter-on grand princi- diana has no authority to locate it. That can ples of general national advantage-principles be done only by the General Government. So which animated and gave success to those who that all is kept in a state of suspense, and nothfirst broached this measure-principles on which ing can be done for want of a location. But, had been based the acts of 1803, of 1806, of if this were once effected; if an appropriation 1812-and on which all that had been done to were granted, first to locate the whole of the this day had been avowedly founded. For road, I would then be willing to give the gen himself, he had candidly placed the object be-tleman enough to carry the road in a complete fore the House in its true light-as requiring a state to Zanesville. distinct appropriation for which there was to be no return from the two per cent. fund, or any other. The nation is about to make a road; and if the nation shall say it is best to begin it at the Mississippi River, I will give that gentleman my hand to support the measure; but I presume it will be the opinion of the nation, nay, I do not doubt the gentleman himself will allow that it is better to begin where the road has now been discontinued.

Mr. JENNINGS, of Indiana, observed that he regretted being obliged to oppose the bill; but he believed that the history of the measure, in its earlier stages, was not generally known or understood. In the original compact between the State of Ohio and the United States, two per cent. out of five per cent. of the proceeds of the public lands was reserved for the purpose of making a road from the navigable waters of the Atlantic to the navigable waters of the Ohio, and thence through the State of Ohio. The compact did not prescribe what kind of a road it should be, nor with what views it should be constructed, whether with a national view or not. Congress, in fulfilment of this contract, had thought proper to make such a road as was not to be found elsewhere in the United States; and they continued to carry it forward without considering what the fund pledged was likely to yield, till it came west of the Alleghany Mountains. They then found that the whole proceeds of the fund had been swallowed up, and more. Then an appropriation was asked to complete the road on the same scale; some difficulties arose; and, in 1819, the appropriation was made, with a pro

Mr. McCoy vindicated the Government from the charge of a violation of good faith. The fund had been pledged to make a road toward Ohio, not from Boston, but from this city. The Congress had done it not through any over sight, but deliberately and advisedly. Some difficulty was experienced in getting the money -none whatever in getting the pledge. The road does lead toward Ohio. He concluded his remarks, (which being delivered in a very low tone of voice, were imperfectly heard by the reporter,) with expressing a hope that the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Illinois would not prevail.

Mr. TRIMBLE said he had risen, not with any intention of detaining the House, but for the purpose of showing that the gentleman from Illinois had entirely mistaken the compact respecting the two per cent. If there was any one point in his whole argument which went on an entire misapprehension of fact, it was his view of this subject. When the original bond, as the gentleman from Illinois had called it, was entered into between the United States and Virginia, territory now occupied by four States was but a wilderness. It was yet under territorial Government when the act of Congress passed allowing the eastern division to form a State Government; and by the compact be tween that State and the United States, a reservation of two per cent. was agreed to on both sides, to be used in making roads from the navigable waters of the Atlantic to the State, (Ohio,) and through the same. Now, suppose those States were a territory still, how would you begin the road agreed upon? You would

JANUARY, 1825.]

Continuation of the Cumberland Road.

[H. OF R.

occasion, for its literal interpretation and fulfilment. Sir, this is so glaring an attack upon my understanding and consistency, that I cannot let it pass without reply. The gentleman has entirely misstated my proposition in relation to the school fund. I proposed merely to apply the school fund to the construction of a canal, and reimburse it out of the tolls, but I did not propose even this arrangement of mere convenience to be carried into effect without the consent of the State legislature first asked and obtained. I did not, therefore, contemplate the slightest violation of the compact.

begin, first, a road to it, and then you would carry the road through it; but the dividing of the territory into States had not changed the stipulation. And now, to examine the subject in relation to the gentleman's own State. He insists upon a literal fulfilment of the contract, and charges the General Government with having violated it by applying the two per cent. reserved to the expense of the Cumberland road. But what does the contract say? It says the reserve shall go to make a road to the State; and the gentleman is pleading that the road must be through the State. It is himself that is violating the letter of the compact. He sets out in his argument with a fact of (Nor does this argument, for a liberal construc- which I never had the good luck even to hear tion, come with a very good grace from the till he spoke of it, viz: an agreement of Virgentleman, who himself but lately proposed ginia with the United States on the subject of that the road should be, in part, exchanged for this road. Now I always had thought that the a canal.) But the gentleman must remember first agreement respecting it was made with that there are two parties-the United States on Ohio. I never heard of such a compact as that the one side, and his State on the other. Now he speaks of. He objects to my interpretation the question recurs, where must the road, ac- of the agreement of the General Government cording to the compact, be commenced? Shall with Illinois, as though I wanted, on that agreeyou begin it at the Mississippi? This would ment, a road to be constructed through my own be to begin by making the road through Illi-State. But, sir, Missouri lies beyond Illinois, nois, whereas the contract stipulates that the road shall first be made to that State, and the two per cent. is so pledged. The construction of the gentleman is against both the letter and the spirit of the compact. Congress is at perfect liberty to pledge the two per cent. if they so please. For himself, Mr. T. said he felt very indifferent whether the pledge was given or not. But now, to come to the good sense of the matter, we have made the road, said Mr. T., as far as Wheeling; this is a road to the territory; we are now to make a road through it. Where shall we begin? At the point where the part already finished terminates? Or shall we go on with the whole at once? Good sense, he thought, would decide that the beginning should be made at Wheeling. There was the great thoroughfare to the West; the country was thickly settled and peopled; and the road would at once produce the greatest benefits. Shall we leave this and go to the sparsely peopled regions of Illinois? He did not, however, intend to enter further into the subject, having risen merely for the purpose of answering the argument of the gentleman from Illinois.

Mr. BEECHER here rose to say, that, if the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. Cook) would withdraw the amendment he had offered, he would meet his views by striking out that clause of the bill which goes to pledge the two per cent. fund.

Mr. Cook signified his intention to do so, when he should have first replied to the gentleman from Kentucky, (Mr. TRIMBLE.) The gentleman, said Mr. C., has presented certain supposed views of mine about the school fund in Illinois being diverted to canalling purposes, and represents me as being willing in that affair, to violate the compact of Illinois with the United States, although I contend, on this

and if my construction be a sound one, as the fund of Missouri also is pledged, the road must reach Missouri, and will, of course, traverse Illinois. I hold, therefore, that my argument has not been shaken by the gentleman from Kentucky, (Mr. TRIMBLE.) I shall, however, now withdraw the amendment I offered, and allow the gentleman from Ohio (Mr. BEECHER) an opportunity to get at work upon the road as soon as he can, assuring him that I shall rejoice in his success.

Mr. BEECHER then moved to strike out all that part of the bill which contains the pledge above alluded to. He stated, in explanation, that the clause had been taken from the former acts, in all of which it was to be found. When it was proposed in the committee which prepared the bill, to retain this clause, he was himself opposed to it-for he considered the pledge as amounting to nothing, the fund being already expended. If this measure succeeded at all, it must succeed on grand national principles, and on these alone the appropriation must be made. He thought it best to be candid, and at once to place the object on its real grounds. He was confident that such a course in this House could never operate to injure the bill.

The question was then put on striking out, and there rose in its favor 53, against it 47; which not amounting to a quorum of the House, and the Chairman being about again to put the question, on motion of Mr. BEECHER, the committee rose, and, having obtained leave to sit again,

The House adjourned.

THURSDAY, January 13.

Continuation of the Cumberland Road. The House proceeded to the unfinished business of yesterday, and went into Committee of

the Whole, (Mr. STERLING, of Connecticut, in the chair,) on the bill to continue the Cumberland road; and the question being on the motion of Mr, BEECHER, to strike out that part of the bill which goes to pledge the 2 per cent. fund arising from the sale of the public lands, to reimburse the sum appropriated,

Mr. MCDUFFIE, of South Carolina, rose, and said that he wished clearly to understand what would be the effect of the provisions of the bill, and for that purpose he had risen to inquire what was the present condition of this fund of 2 per cent. of the sales of the public lands? If he had been correctly informed, the proceeds of that fund were all exhausted on the Cumberland road, and the money now to be appropriated was to be advanced on a fund which would not yield any returns, perhaps, in fifty years, perhaps never. He wished to meet the question fairly; and, if the money was to be given out of the Treasury for the object proposed, he wished at once to know it, that the House might not put on the statute book an act in a deceptive form, purporting that the money granted is to be returned, when no such thing is expected.

As the matter now stood, he should vote against the bill; but he wished for further information, and hoped that some of the gentlemen who had the charge of the bill would favor him by stating the true situation of the fund.

[JANUARY, 1825.

awaken local jealousies. If, indeed, as had been contended by the gentleman, the Government is bound by contract to make this road, why, then, it must be made; but, if not, and if this measure stood on the same ground of its own independent merits as any other object of internal improvement, then it was proper to pause and consider whether the course proposed was the wisest and best. It was his own opinion that the Government is not bound by any contract to go on with the Cumberland road. The first act on this subject was that in 1802, when 2 per cent. of the proceeds of the sales of the public lands was reserved for the purpose of making a road from the navigable waters of the Atlantic to the navigable waters of the Ohio. The great object of this reservation was, that a chain of communication might be opened and secured between the States on the Atlantic and the States on the Western waters. This leading object of the original contract was to be taken as a guide in the interpretation of all the subsequent contracts which were entered into on the same general subject. None of those contracts except the first, stated where the stipulated road was to run from. One said it was to run to Indiana; another, that it was to run to Illinois, &c.; but, for aught in those compacts, it might start from Detroit, or from Boston, or from Charleston, or any other point in the Union. The great object was to secure a line of connection between the Atlantic and Western States, and this must constantly be kept in view in interpreting the terms to and from, as they occur in those contracts. This construction presents an object which was worthy of the legislation of Government. It was well known that the three great Western States were already sufficiently bound to each other by their relative situation; their interests were all closely allied, and they

Mr. RANKIN, of Mississippi, observed, that, as it was his purpose to oppose the bill, he might as well take this time as any other to present his objections to it. He felt assured that he should not be so far misunderstood as to have it supposed by any gentleman on that floor, that he was otherwise than friendly disposed toward the system of internal improvement on which the House and the nation had last year entered, and he was equally certain that his friends from the West would not sus-needed nothing to draw the bands closer, or pect him of being hostile to their interest; for, if any part of the whole Western country might be said to be closely connected in interest with the State he represented, it was that in which the contemplated object was proposed to be carried into effect. But, he did not think the course proposed was the best to be at present pursued. The great system of Internal Improvements ought not thus to be commenced in detail. What had last session been done as a commencement of the system, had been done on a scale, and in a manner, worthy of the na-struction was the uniform course of the legislation. The first step in such a plan was to have a full survey of the whole field of operation, and then to consider what parts of the general system require the first attention.

The observations which had so repeatedly been made by the gentleman from Ohio, (Mr. BEECHER,) as to the comparative expenditures on the east and on the west side of the Alleghanies, were calculated to show that the commencement of the plan, in the manner now proposed, or in any manner similar to it, had a direct tendency to arouse sectional feeling and

render them stronger. But it was not so with respect to them and the Atlantic States. Between them was interposed a barrier of mountains, the natural effect of which was to sepa rate their interests, and alienate their attachment from each other. Congress wished, so far as possible, to do away this barrier, and consolidate the interests of the Eastern and Western parts of the Union, by establishing a chain of direct and easy intercourse between them. Another reason in favor of this con

tion which had been pursued on this subject. The original contract with the State of Ohio was made in 1802. In 1806, the appropriation was made for the Cumberland road; and every subsequent act from 1806 to 1819, had had the same uniform design and tendency, viz: to connect the Eastern and the Western States. The last pledge of the 2 per cent. fund was made in 1819; those prior had been only of so much of the fund as arose from lands in Ohio: then followed the pledge of the 2 per cents. from Ohio and Indiana; then of those of Ohio,

Continuation of the Cumberland Road.

Indiana, and Illinois. He presumed the latter | The price of labor is now greatly reduced, and was made with the consent of Illinois.

Mr. Chairman, the claims we have, from the work already executed, are entitled to the respectful consideration of every gentleman. But, the general good that will result from the work, is of itself a consideration sufficient, it seems to me, to secure the favorable opinion of every member of this House who is disposed to sanction an internal policy, more calculated than any other to promote the great interests of the nation. Some, perhaps, who may be unfriendly to the policy, or may feel hostile to this road, may make some objections on account of the expense which has been incurred in making that part of it already executed. This, however, can afford no substantial objections to its prosecution and completion. If any abuse has existed, the knowledge of its ex-erty. istence points out the surest method of guarding against it in future. Some experience has been acquired which, in making improvements of this description, is of incalculable value.