lic servants should be paid by the public. The principle was a very good one and happily was to be found in the present bill; for the fund out of which the members of the board of control were to be paid, was one in which the public had a direct interest. therefore the less likely to be corrupt. He took this manner of calling the attention of the House to the point which he should afterwards take notice of. If gentlemen who with him had voted in the year 1780, upon the influence of the crown, had forgotten the reasons upon which the House came to its resolution upon that subject,— if they had forgotten all they formerly professed upon that subject, all he could say was, that he should do every thing in his power to improve their recollection, and therefore it was that what he now hinted at should be taken as a public no-fairs of India, who are not privy counsellors, and with certain fixed salaries, tice. The committee then went through the bill. May 17. The said bill was reported. On the clause being read for appointing two additional commissioners for the af Mr. Pitt said, that the arrangement in Mr. Fox said, that when a clause of question was connected with a circum- this alarming nature, with respect to instance which would prevent any increase fluence, came to be discussed, he could of influence to the crown. The right have wished to have seen in their places hon. gentleman took it for granted that those gentlemen who had expressed their three new places with salaries were to be sentiments so strongly on former occacreated; but this was not precisely the sions against the influence of the crown. It case. By the former bill, his majesty was was surely, on every account proper that restrained from calling any person to the they should come forward, and give a deboard of control, who was not a privy cided opinion on this question; let them counsellor; and those who attended it, say whether they had altered their former were chiefly such as held lucrative offices opinion; or, if they have not altered it, in the state that did not require much at- whether they could reconcile the support tendance. What the present bill pro- of such a measure as the present with that posed was, that one of the description opinion. He would wish to know from should be made president of the board; them, how far they thought it right to go, and that two other persons, not privy in cases of danger and emergency, in supcounsellors, or holding any other office, port of any plans brought forward by mishould have seats at it with him; that for nisters, and whether they were never to their support, a sum of 5,000l. a year, oppose this shameless increase of influshould be paid by the company, a part of ence. As to the thing itself, there were which should be given to the president, two very considerable offices, with certain in addition to the salary of the other fixed salaries, added to the patronage of place which he might hold, and the re- the crown. It was, indeed, hinted, that mainder to be equally divided between his perhaps some offices, belonging to anotwo associates. Thus it would appear ther kingdom, held at present by persons that in reality only two new places were in this country, would be taken off from to be created, which could be said to add the patronage here; but, be that as it any thing to the influence of the crown. might, would not the patronage of anoNow, to counterbalance that increase of ther country bear upon this? When the influence, it was in contemplation to board of control was first appointed, it was make an arrangement, by which the said there were to be no salaries: and crown would lose in precisely the same surely this country was never in a situaproportion; the arrangement to which he tion which called for stricter economy alluded was that, in future, the government than when we were involved in a war, of of Ireland should have the nomination of which we could not see a probable speedy the two vice-treasurers, paid by that king- termination. He called upon all those dom, but who usually resided in this; who, in 1780, joined in the vote of that and whose offices were mere sinecures. House, that the influence of the crown Thus, if two places were to be gained on had increased, was increasing, and ought one hand, as many would be lost on the to be diminished, to come forward and other; and thus the increase if influence say whether they were then right, and, if on one side would be counterbalanced by so, whether that influence had since dea decrease on the other. The right hon. creased. With respect to his majesty's gentleman wished that all salaries to pub-privy counsellors, there were surely many of them who possessed lucrative offices | their duty required. At all events, he under the crown, who might have leisure had done his duty, by giving them this sufficient to attend to the business of the opportunity of delivering their sentiments, board of control; such as the treasurer of and should content himself with moving the household, the post masters-general the to leave out the words " and such two pertreasurer of the navy, &c. If this were not sons as his majesty, his heirs, and succesthe case, the appointment of this board of sors shall think fit." control, in the manner it was held out at first, was nothing but a deceit practised upon the public. He was determined to take the sense of the House that night; and, if unsuccessful, to do so in every future stage of the bill, with respect to this particular clause. After a short debate, the House divided For the clause 113; Against it 42. May 24. time, The bill being read a third Mr. Fox said, that having before delivered his opinion upon the subject of the amendment, which he meant to propose, he would not trouble the House with a repetition of the arguments on which he founded that opinion. But as he had given notice that he should again object to that part of the bill which went to the creation of new offices in the gift of the crown, in order that those with whom he had formerly concurred in a vote for reducing the influence of the crown, might have an opportunity of delivering their sentiments on the proposed increase of that influence, he certainly should take the sense of the House upon it. If they still concurred with him in the opinions they had formerly professed, it became them, like men who acted from a sense of duty, unbiassed by any temporary motives, to maintain those opinions by their votes on the present occasion. If, on the contrary, their opinions had changed, if they had abandoned the principles upon which he and they had formerly combated the increasing influence of the crown, it became them, in that case also, as men who acted from conviction, to avow that change, to explain the reasons of it, and to confirm it by their votes. In no case could he conceive it to be consistent with their duty and their character, to absent themselves, and leave persons who were less inclined to put a candid construction on their motives than he was, at liberty to suppose that they were either afraid to avow the change that had taken place in their opinions, or that, if they still adhered to them, they were unwilling, on account of some peculiar circumstances at the present moment, to take that part which Lord Inchiquin said, it was harsh to suppose, that all the gentlemen who had coincided in opinion with Mr. Fox in 1780 either had changed their principles or were afraid now to avow them. There could be no doubt respecting one gentleman's attachment to Mr. Fox, for no man had ever given the world a more striking proof of attachment to the right hon. gentleman than Mr. Burke did, on a memorable occasion, when a stink bag was thrown at the right hon. gentleman in the midst of a numerous meeting in Westminsterhall; on that occasion, Mr. Burke, it was well known, greatly hazarded his life in endeavouring to find out the wretch who had thrown the bag with a view to suffocate the right hon. gentleman. Mr. Burke had been attending all the day the trial of Mr. Hastings; and the fatigue of that attendance might well be admitted as an excuse for his absence in the evening from his place in that House. Mr. Fox observed, that he complained not only of Mr. Burke, but of other gentlemen who had joined him in the vote upon the influence of the crown, in the year 1780. It appeared to him to be their duty to attend the discussion of this bill, and to assign their reasons, if they had any for thinking that the influence of the crown ought to be now increased in the manner which it would be if this bill should pass into a law. After a few words from Mr. Sheridan, the House divided; For the clause 123; Against it, 30. On the question that the bill do pass, Mr. Fox rose and said:-When, Sir, the subject was first brought under the consideration of the House, I did expect, that a committee of inquiry would have been appointed, to call for and examine the requisite evidence, which could alone enable us to form our opinions upon so important a subject, as the government and trade of India: and I did expect, that from such a committee a report would have issued, founded upon the whole of this evidence, and that, upon the different branches of the subject, the House would have sat, and solemnly and deliberately determined, what that system is, which is required for the administration of our Indian empire and trade. Was this the case? Nothing like it! On the contrary, the only evidence before the House, that I know of is, that some weeks past, a capital speech was made by the minister for India, giving a general account of the government and trade of our provinces, and pointing out the propriety and necessity of renewing the company's charter, and so forth. In this capital speech, not a word was heard of the proposed increase of the influence of the crown, although this was a necessary consequence of the system which it recommended. To this increase I object, and I feel it to be my duty solemnly to protest against it, as fraught with danger to the constitution, and as a measure which could only have been devised by the most strenuous advocates for despotic power. Why is this influence dangerous? Because it is irresponsible. Is it to be placed in the hands of those who are to be vested with the real power? No: it is to be given to their agents and dependants, whose responsibility, from the nature of their situation, it is absurd to speak of. Upon the ground of this objection, and of others which I shall presently state, I feel it to be my duty to oppose the whole of this bill, as disgraceful to its proposers, and if adopted, to this House; as dangerous to the public in general, and repugnant to the principles of the constitution in particular. Taking this, therefore, as the ground of his objection, Mr. Fox conceived it to be his duty to submit a few observations to the consideration of the House. Many of the members would recollect, that in the year 1783, he had successfully pointed out the extraordinary influence then in the hands of the directors. At that period, however, as the influence was independent of the crown, he thought that it might be wise neither to increase it, nor to diminish it, but to leave it, as to quantity, where it then stood. A short time afterwards, upon a fuller view of the whole subject, he was decidedly of opinion, that it was highly improper to leave this influence with a commercial body, and that it ought to be vested in those who, from their characters and situations, with respect to the public, were better qualified to exercise it. This was the leading provision in the bill, which he had the honour to submit to the House in 1783. The fate of that bill, it was now as unnecessary as it would be un availing, to relate. But it was impossible for him to allow the accusations which had been, in his opinion, improperly and unjustly brought against him, to pass without refuting them, and reprobating them in the terms they deserved. These accusations were twofold: first, that his bill tended to lessen, and next to increase the influence of the crown, though in truth, it had neither of these objects in view. At that time he had stated, and he again repeated, that his object was to take the power from the directors, where it was most improperly placed, and to vest it in commissioners, who were to be immediately under the coutrol of parliament. I am convinced (said Mr. Fox,) that the more that bill is examined, the more it will meet with the approbation of the public. That bill had a defined object, à clear and precise meaning; the bill now under consideration is the reverse of it in every respect. It has no defined object, and it has a concealed meaning; for under the specious pretext of avoiding the objectionable influence in my bill, it grasps at the whole of the patronage of India, in a way totally disconnected with responsibility.-Mr. Fox next observed, that the manner in which the right hon. gentleman who had brought in the bill had treated the point of influence was such, that he could not allow his observations to pass without taking some notice of them. It has been asserted, that the patronage of India consists in the appointment of a few writers. Now, if there is a man living who can believe this assertion, I wish him joy of his credulity. I ask any man who is not insane, in whom, if this bill shall pass into a law, will the whole of the patronage of India be vested? Will not the company and their directors be the mere tools of the minister for the time being? Who appointed lord Cornwallis or sir John Shore? Was it the company? No; it was the board of control. Is this, then, the boasted measure which is to lessen the influence of the crown, to convey no new patronage to the minister, and to give him no room to exercise his caprice or his prejudices in appointments in India? What in reality is this boasted bill? It is nothing but a continuation of that system of deception, fraud, and rapacity, which has marked the conduct of ministers in the management of the affairs of India. Have the House forgotten the declaratory bill? Did not the minister for India then embrace the principle, of placing the whole of the territorial power with a quietness unexampled in the annals in the crown, and of appropriating the of parliament, and that now it should be revenues to the maintenance of the mili- censured with ungoverned and angry tary establishments there; though the bill words. The right hon. gentleman who of 1784 had no such principle, nor any had delivered them had perhaps withheld thing like it? Ex pede Herculem! The his opposition, during the earlier prodeclaratory bill was founded on the 11th gress of the business, that he might, in clause of the bill of 1784, the object of the last stage of it, with collected hostiwhich is only" to afford the board infor- lity, bear it down fully and finally. He mation respecting the company's affairs had allowed that the bill was of unabroad, and to require the company to common importance, and yet he had met pay due obedience to such orders as they it with a silence which was unusual to him, shall receive from the board, touching the and scarcely compatible with that conscicivil or military government and revenues entious sense of duty, which had led him of the British territorial possessions in in this last moment of discussion, to rethe East Indies." The provisions of the probate the whole bill in its principle and declaratory bill, however, gave to minis- in its provisions, to act hostilely against ters the uncontrolled power of appropri- every measure proposed by me, or my ating the revenues of India to such mili- right hon. friend. The right hon. gentle. tary establishments as they should think man had condemned the bill, as disgracefit to create or employ. The declaratory ful to the proposers, and to the House, bill thus professed one thing, and by its if they should adopt it; and yet, he had provisions effected another. To obtain not pointed out in what the disgrace of farther information respecting India was either would consist. There seemed to its professed object, but to vest the power be but three ways in which it was possible and revenues of India in the crown its to account for this assertion. In the first real object. He pronounced, that the place, that the bill had been indecently present bill was a continuation of the sys- precipitated through the House, and all tem of delusion, fraud, and rapacity, discussions upon it prevented. In the which had been introduced by the bill of second place, that the right hon. gentle1784, and by the declaratory bill. The man, though convinced of the importance present bill pretended to wave all patron-of the bill, had been so remiss in his duty, age, whilst it, in fact, grasped at patron-as to have given no attention to the subage of every description. It affected to ject. In the third place, that though he say, that responsibility was to be attached condemned the bill (as indeed he did all to those who were to exercise power; the measures of its proposers) yet, that, but, in fact and in truth, it gave security convinced the provisions in it were unexto corruption, and a facility to the ex- ceptionable, and that the more they were ercise of corrupt practices. This (said examined, the more wise and excellent Mr. Fox), I am entitled to affirm, because they would appear, he had prudently it will enable the minister to engross the shrunk from the discussion, and had now whole power, and yet screen him from endeavoured to atone for his former remissall responsibility. Every thing, by it, is ness, by angry and passionate expressions. to be carried on by agents, who, from the In one of the right hon. gentleman's assernature of all governments, never can be tions, and in one only, he perfectly agreed, made responsible for the corruption of namely, that a capital speech had been made those whose commands they obey. Upon by his right hon. friend (Mr. Dundas). these grounds, I protest against the whole This the House and the public alof this system; but as it may be expedient ready knew; a speech which, for compreto renew the charter of the East India hensive knowledge of the history of Incompany for a short time, I move as an dia, and of the various sources of the amendment, "That instead of the words British commerce to the East Indies, 1811 the words 1797, be inserted," being he would venture to affirm, though it might four years, the same period which I fixed have been equalled in that House, had on as necessary in making an experiment, never been excelled. It was singular, under my own bill. however, that capital as this speech cerMr. Pitt said, that it must have ap-tainly was, and important as the subject peared an extraordinary circumstance to had been allowed to be by the right hon. the House, that a bill of such importance gentleman himself, yet the right hon. genshould have passed to a third reading,tleman had heard only a part of that speech. one. a He had thus avoided one of the means of obtaming that information, of the want of which he now complained. Nor was this all; for it was obvious that he had not perused the whole of the evidence before the House. Had not his right hon. friend in February last, called the attention of the House to the subject of Indian affairs? Had he not invited the manufacturing interests to bring forward their claims, and the company to devise means by which those claims could be satisfied? Had not the subject, for the last nine years, occupied the attention of parliament at various periods? Had not his right hon. friend in successive years, laid the state of the company's affairs abroad before the House? Had not, in each of these years, resolutions been adopted, which marked the progressive stages of their improvement? Had the right hon. gentleman forgotten, that the principles of a free trade to India, were discussed, when his own memorable bill was proposed and the present system adopted? Could, then, the right hon. gentleman complain that any thing like surprise had been attempted? The answer was obvious. The right hon. gentleman had avoided opposition in the detail, because he knew he would be unsuccessful in every pointMr. Pitt said, he felt the most entire satisfaction, when he contemplated the whole progress of the present measure; more particularly when he considered the efforts which the right hon. gentleman was disposed to make to counteract it, had he thought it prudent to oppose his own prejudices to the opinions of the public. Mr. Pitt now proceeded to examine the observations made by Mr. Fox. It had been asserted, that the exclusive privilege was to be continued with the company, and yet that trade was to be opened; and this had been condemned as an inconsistent absurdity, professing to do what it was impossible could be done, and consequently, as a mere job and political delusion. Upon this point, again, the want of information was complained of, though the truth was, that so far from wanting information to form his opinion, the right hon. gentleman must know, that there was too much information before the House for his purpose. He therefore had had recourse to the common-place topic, that a free trade was preferable to a monopoly, insisting, that the House ought not to forget this principle, unless very good reasons should be giving for adopting a contrary [VOL. XXX.] This speculation had been repeated thousand times, by much less ingenious men than the right hon. member, and scarcely could have been expected to be resorted to, as the force of it had been done away by his right hon. friend, when he first opened the subject, bottoming his argument, not on vague speculation, but on inferences drawn from history and from authenticated accounts. If his arguments and these proofs were not sufficient, why had not the right hon. gentleman called for farther documents? His avocations, perhaps, might be too numerous and important, to admit of one moment being thrown away on the continent of India, though this had been the field over which his talents and his hopes had so long expatiated with pleasure. Here Mr. Pitt asked, whether the claims of the manufacturers had not been listened to and provided for; and whether the exclusive privilege of the company had not been rendered subservient to the resources of the empire? Though the expedient adopted was not less wise than it was practicable, unfortunately it did not suit the right hon. gentleman's plan of opposition, and therefore it necessarily had incurred his censure. It had next been asserted by the right hon. gentleman, that the political regulations proposed for India, were not less objectionable than the commercial. commercial. Upon this subject he must be allowed to say, that the right hon. member was either ignorant of, or had forgotten the state of India, since he had not adverted to one single circumstance in the present political administration of the provinces, to which his assertion would apply. Leaving behind him, therefore, this subject, he had next resorted to the point of influence, but had not adduced a single example in which that influence was to be increased by the present bill. On this subject, Mr. Pitt observed, that it was necessary for him to explain in what the influence from the appointment of writers consisted. Upon this point, he only wished the House to advert to the regulations under which the service in India was placed. The writer or cadet could only hope to rise to employments of trust, after he had passed through many inferior gradations of service. Offices of trust could no longer be given away at discretion, but were conferred on those whose rank, perseverance, and talents entitled them to this reward. The influence, therefore, acquired by administration, from [3 P] |