ferocity by being secretary of war; or how a man who has grown up with military instincts and in the militia should believe that a man on the force should be subject to absolute removal with no review, but in time of peace, certainly outside of the regular army, such a thing ought to be unthinkable. If the power of review is denied here, thinking it should be left to the Legislature, and then it is denied there, it will be a sorry result not to put it in the Constitution. When my honored leader says that this amendment would substitute the discretion of the court for that of the official trying of an officer, in the name of justice what is a court for except to have its discretion substituted for that of some person where there is a difference between that person and someone else? The excuse for the exist

ence of the court is that it will exercise its judgment and discretion where two persons differ; it is a legalized referee or umpire. I don't care whether an officer has been removed as the result of a bad breakfast or bad temper, or as a result of calm, judicial action, a reasonable person ought to be willing to have a review, and unless his judgment is sustained by the facts as they are proven, he ought to be willing to be reversed, indeed he ought to welcome such a result.

It is not best for anybody to get it into his head that he is the whole thing. The very best of us sometimes make mistakes, and when a mistake thus made will blacken a policeman's whole future, the man that makes the mistake ought to be willing to have a review of his action.

For one, I want to vote for this amendment. I believe a permission for review, an opportunity for review in criminal and quasi-criminal cases is a test of the civilizaton of the community; that the community that does not give such a review, that does not give an opportunity to reverse an unjust conviction shows its lack of civilization. I would rather go and live in a Hottentot kraal village for the rest of my days and trust to the administration of justice there, than where no review at all is permitted. I favor the amendment.

Mr. Weed- I hope that these amendments which have been suggested will not pass. It seems to me that they are an attack upon the entire theory of this bill which is before this Convention. They seem to be inspired by a fear of home rule. They seem to think that if home rule is given to the cities, that they are going to run riot with regard to the protections of their public servants which have been granted to them always in the past, and I cannot imagine that there would be any greater safety to the position of a policeman than the safety and security of those positions which is given to them by the courts and by the officers of the cities in which they exercise their power.

It is inconceivable, Mr. President, that there would be any effort on the part of a city to deprive policemen of the protections that they have always had. They have not been protected in their positions in the past by any provision in the Constitution, and is there any well-founded reason to believe that the cities in the care of their own interests, in the care of their property, in the care of their persons, that these cities are going to pass any amendments that will in anywise impair the efficiency of their police force,

or impair the right to just and proper treatment which policemen have had and will have, and I hope, therefore, if this bill is passed, it will be passed without these amendments.

The President The time for debate has expired.

Mr. Steinbrink — Mr. President, may I withdraw the amendment offered by me, since the amendment offered by Mr. Doughty meets the criticism offered by Mr. Wickersham, and as the amendment offered by Mr. Doughty is entirely acceptable to me.

Mr. A. E. Smith Mr. President, I was recognized quite some time ago but this proposition has got in ahead of me. I offer the following amendment. Mr. Wickersham - Mr. President, I have sent up an amendment to the Secretary.

The President - The Secretary will read the amendment offered by Mr. Doughty. The Chair asks whether these amendments all relate to this same subject?

Mr. A. E. Smith No, Mr. President, mine is amending an entirely different section.

Mr. Wickersham - Mr. President, mine relates to this subject.

Mr. Doughty Mine relates to the court review.

The President - Mr. Steinbrink withdraws his proposal?

Mr. Steinbrink - Both of those that I offered are covered.

The President - Is Mr. Winslow's amendment withdrawn?

Mr. Winslow - Mr. President, I was inattentive at the time and I did not hear the question.

The President Does Mr. Winslow withdraw his amendment?

Mr. Winslow I will, if it is covered by Mr. Doughty's amendment. The President - Mr. Doughty's amendment will be read.

The Secretary - By Mr. Doughty. Page 3, line 12, after the word "record" add "provided that provision for the removal of police officers in cities of the first and second class shall not prohibit a court review of such removal proceedings ".

Mr. Winslow - Mr. President, I will withdraw my amendment. I think Mr. Doughty's is a great improvement.

Mr. Low-Mr. President, may that be read again?

The President - The amendment will be read again.

Mr. Wickersham - May the amendment which I sent up to the desk be read?

The President - It may be, but Mr. Doughty's will be read again, first. The Secretary - By Mr. Doughty. Page 3, line 12, after the word "record" add "provided that provision for the removal of police officers in cities of the first and second class shall not prohibit a court review of such removal proceedings."

The President - Mr. Wickersham's amendment will be read.

The Secretary - Page 3, at the end of line 12, insert "provided, however, that nothing herein contained shall be construed to impair the right of any police officer or fireman of the State to review by appropriate legal proceedings the legality of any removal.”

The President - That appears to be a substitute for Mr. Doughty's amendment.

Mr. Donnelly - Mr. President, I sent an amendment on the same subject. I ask that it be read.

The President The Secretary will read Mr. Donnelly's amendment.

The Secretary — By Mr. Donnelly. Page 3, line 12, after the word "record" strike out the period and add, "provided that in cities of the first and second class the removal of policemen or firemen shall be subject to review by writ of certiorari ".

Mr. Wickersham - Mr. President, may I point out that the new proposed civil practice act rules abolish writs of certiorari, so that a provision in the Constitution referring to a writ of certiorari, might become obsolete if these rules be adopted.

Mr. D. Nicoll - Mr. President, may I ask Mr. Wickersham a question? The President - By unanimous consent.

Mr. D. Nicoll - Does your amendment include firemen ?

Mr. Wickersham - Yes.

Mr. Low Mr. President, I would like to have it understood that the Committee is not willing to accept any one of these amendments.

Delegates Question.

The President - The question first arises upon the substitute offered by Mr. Donnelly. All in favor of the motion to recommit with instructions to amend in accordance with that substitute will say Aye, contrary, No. The amendment is lost.

The question next arises upon the substitute offered by Mr. Wickersham. All in favor of amending in accordance with that substitute will say Aye. Contrary, No. The amendment is lost.

The question now arises upon the motion by Mr. Doughty to amend as read by the Clerk.

Mr. Steinbrink

-

Mr. President, I ask for a rising vote.

The President All in favor of that motion will rise and remain standing until counted. The gentlemen will be seated. All opposed will rise. The gentlemen will be seated. Ayes 45; Noes 66. The amendment is lost.

The amendment offered by Mr. A. E. Smith will be read.

Mr. A. E. Smith I ask unanimous consent to make a one-minute explanation.

The President - May the amendment be read first?

The Secretary-On page 5, between lines 20 and 21, insert a new paragraph to read:

66

'The legislature may provide that charters and charter amendments shall not be submitted to the legislature for approval unless a protest against such charters or charter amendments is made as provided by law, by the electors or municipal authorities of the city or by the members of the legislature. The legislature may delegate to the electors of a city the power to disapprove the charter amendments herein vested in the legislature."

Mr. A. E. Smith Mr. President

The President Unanimous consent is asked for a one-minute explanation by Mr. Smith. Is there objection?

Mr. A. E. Smith Mr. President, this takes the place of the amendment

that I offered to this bill when it was in Committee of the Whole. My original amendment provided that upon petition to the city clerk of a certain number of electors, a percentage of the electors I believe I fixed it, in protest, it should then come to the Legislature. I provide by this amendment that the Legislature may by law provide that it is unnecessary to submit to the Legislature charter amendments or charters for nullification unless it be requested by the electors, by the city officials in the case of a charter adopted by the people after preparation by a charter revision commission, or by a certain given number of members of the Legislature, leaving the power entirely with the Legislature to prescribeThe President (Interrupting)

Mr. A. E. Smith (Continuing)

- The gentleman's time has expired.
- the manner and method.

Mr. Low - Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent simply long enough to say that the committee cannot accept the amendment.

The President Is there objection?

All in favor of recommitting

(Laughter.)

Mr. A. E. Smith - I ask for a rising vote.

The President - All in favor of recommitting, amending as indicated by Mr. Smith and reporting forthwith will rise and remain standing until counted. The gentlemen may be seated. Those opposed will rise. The gentlemen may be seated. Manifestly, the amendment is lost.

Mr. Wheeler - Mr. President, I sent an amendment to the desk and ask that it be read.

The President - The amendment will be read.

The Secretary On page 5, line 4, strike out all after the word "be", all of lines 5, 6 and 7 and all line 8, down to and including the word "respectively" and insert instead the following: "twenty-two, one chosen by the electors of each senate district".

Mr. Wheeler

my amendment?

May I have one moment, by unanimous consent, to explain

A Delegate - I object.

Mr. J. G. Saxe- Mr. President, may I ask that the section be read as amended, because the amendment does not mean anything by itself?

The President The Secretary will read the paragraph as it would be if amended as indicated.

The Secretary-"At the general election in the year one thousand nine hundred and seventeen and unless its charter shall otherwise provide in every eighth year thereafter, every city shall submit to the electors thereof, either at a general or a special election, the question "shall there be a commission to revise the charter of the city?" and may at the same time choose seven commissioners to revise the city charter in case the question be answered in the affirmative, provided, however, that in the city of New York the number of such commissioners shall be twenty-two, one chosen by the electors of each Senate District ".

The President - All in favor of the motion will say Aye, contrary No. The motion is lost.

The President - That completes the disposition of the amendments. The bill, having been amended, will lie over to be printed.

The Secretary will read the title of the next order.

The Secretary-Number 837, by Mr. Blauvelt, to amend article seven, by adding a new section relating to highways.

The President - The amendment is open for debate.

The President - If there is no debate the Secretary will call the roll.

The Secretary- Mr. F. C. Allen.

The President - The Secretary is not able to hear the responses of the members and the delegates will be unable to hear the Clerk. The Secretary will again call the roll.