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The CHAIRMAN. We will be glad to incorporate that in the record at the conclusion of your remarks.

Senator WHERRY. For your information, just expressing an observation on it, in the month of March 1945 we had 13 committees, either subcommittees of permanent committees or special committees set up in the Senate that borrowed help from 27 different departments of the Government, and I think in all the personnel totaled at one time 96 persons.

I imagine you are not so much interested in the borrowing of personnel, but it does offer, I think, a striking example of special committees that have been set up from time to time, many of whom had really completed their work, and I even learned of one committee that has been in operation 12 years and that has not even made a report and has no legislation to suggest.

Mr. MICHENER. That must be a Senate committee.

Senator WHERRY. This has to do only with Senate committees, Congressman. I am only talking about Senate committees.

Mr. SUMNERS. Senator, would you pardon me? I have been here for 32 years, and I did not know that you could do that.

Senator WHERRY. I think probably some of the cause has been the war effort. You know we have these different committees set up to investigate, and so forth.

The CHAIRMAN. Many of the resolutions passed by the Senate. have authorized committees or subcommittees or special committees to obtain assistance from departments and agencies of the executive branch.

Mr. MICHENER. The same is true with the House resolutions. I have raised the point many times.

Senator WHERRY. Many of these committees are overlapping. For example, right now I came over here at the invitation of the chairman because I want to be of help, but we have four committees working right at this minute, special committees of which I am a member. It is not unusual. All the Senators have plenty committees, and the chairman knows that.

The meat hearing is by a special committee. Light metals is before the Small Business Committee, and a subcommittee on appropriations has to do with some work that I am very much interested in and that is holding a hearing at this time.

It just shows how far out we go in committee work in the United States Senate.

This last report is the one that was brought up in February and it shows there are nine committees still reporting that they have borrowed help. I do not know that that is correct, because we later amended the resolution and provided it was unnecessary to report the personnel if there was no change made from month to month. So I have an idea that all of these committees, at one time 17 of them, are still functioning, and of course it is just more committee work into which the Senators are placed.

Mr. Cox. Senator. what is the objection to the practice of borrowing help from Government agencies?

Senator WHERRY. I did not want to go into that, but if you want me to give it to you, I will tell you. On our Small Business Committee, for example, all the hired help but about 3 out of the 27 is borrowed help.

Now, I think where you want to borrow an expert on taxation for your permanent Appropriation Committee it is a good thing, and satisfactory.

But too many resolutions-I believe the chairman will agree with me-are passed in the Senate to set up special committees. You go before the Committee to Audit and Control the Contingent Expenses of the Senate and get your first appropriation of $5,000 and they immediately send down to the Bureaus and borrow help. In the instance of the Small Business Committee they were placed on the pay roll at the suggestion of the Small Business Committee and paid out of the funds of these different boards or agencies such as W. P. B., the War Food, Agriculture, Navy and Army, and the procurement agencies all the way through.

Now, it is my theory that if a person is paid by a department but he is permanently employed by a committee then in 9 cases out of 10 if the committee were disbanded that man would not have a job any longer.

Mr. Cox. Do you think so?

Senator WHERRY. That was my testimony.

Mr. Cox. Hasn't he already got the job?

Senator WHERRY. I cannot tell you about that.

Mr. Cox. You are trying to save his face by giving him something to do.

Senator WHERRY. You can take it either way you want to. My idea is one who works for W. P. A. is loyal to W. P. A. Here is these small business investigations, where we thought we had hit something, why, we would come up on the other side of the angle and our testimony ran out on us because they were loyal to the organization. You can see how that would work.

I do not want in any way to attempt to tell the Senate what it should do on passing resolutions or having investigations or what committees they want to set up. I merely call to your attention the numerous committees that we have set up, which add to our problems in addition to our Senate work. But I do feel if the Senate sets up those special committees, instead of going and getting a $5,000 appropriation and then borrowing help they should be required to go to the Appropriations Committee and set up a budget, hire their own people, and have them working for the United States Senate. instead of some department. That is my theory on that.

I did not really want to go into that; all I wanted to do was to show the extent to which these special committees had grown.

Mr. Cox. You know it is not easy for a special committee under such circumstances to just reach out and pick up the man qualified to do the job.

Senator WHERRY. Yes, I would agree with that. I am not casting any reflections upon the personnel. The chances are if we would do the hiring under appropriations we probably would take many of the persons that are now representing the departments.

But my theory is if they were with the United States Senate you would not have any difficulty, because they certainly ought to be loyal to the people who employ them. Do you get the idea? I found that out in some instances, much to my sorrow.

Mr. MICHENER. The Senator is aware of the fact that many of the committees were brought on by the war conditions, is he not?

Senator WHERRY. Oh, yes; and when the war is over probably a few of them will disband. You will be surprised at the different permanent special committees that have been in existence year after

year.

I will give you an illustration of one special committee that has been set up that has operated for 12 years and has never made a report to the United States Senate, and they have never even asked for any legislation. The presumed basis, Mr. Chairman, on which special committees are set up is to make an investigation or gather information looking toward the introduction of remedial legislation. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much.

(The matter submitted by Senator Wherry is as follows:)

Use of borrowed personnel by Senate committees during February 1945

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Mr. WHERRY. As a new member of the Committee to Audit and Control the Contingent Expenses of the Senate, I wish to join in the report of the chairman and in the statement he has made with reference to continuing the various committees under the resolutions which have been reported this morning and agreed to.

I wish to state also, with as much force as I possess, that I appreciate the attitude of the committee in approving the appropriation for the Small Business Committee. I happen to be a member of that committee, and I join with the junior Senator from Montana [Mr. Murray] in stating to the membership of the Senate that we need a small business committee of the Senate in order to help the small businessmen throughout the country as various executive agencies issue orders which have a tremendous impact on the distribution and sale of their merchandise. I heartily endorse everything the Senator has said.

I also agree with what has been stated by the chairman of the Committee to Audit and Control the Contingent Expenses of the Senate, the senior Senator from Illinois [Mr. Lucas]. As I looked at the different proposals pending at the first meeting of the committee, it occured to me they were conclusive evidence of the need for the adoption of the resolution I presented last August.

I am convinced that the Small Business Committee needs all the personnel it has today in order to do its work. I think it is one of the most important committees of the Senate. I am also of the opinion that if the employees were employed directly, they would be loyal beyond any question. I do not mean to say they are not loyal now; but being employed by a department, to a certain degree they have a loyalty to that department which otherwise they might give to the Senate committee in a study of the problems covered in the investigations. The junior Senator from Montana appointed me on a subcommittee, together with the junior Senator from Tennessee [Mr. Stewart.] If I am correct, we have had about 50 subcommittee investigations, and the subcommittee has done a tremendous amount of work in helping to amend and clarify Executive orders which otherwise cause confusion quite generally clear through the production, the wholesaling, and the retail distribution of the merchandise.

I wish to commend the Senator from Illinois and the committee for the action they have taken. They have served notice on the Senate that it should take

notice of this practice, and that we should investigate it. The life of most of the committees has been extended to July 1, and they go before the Committee on Appropriations and establish their justification for an appropriation if they need more employees.

Last August I raised a question about Senate committees borrowing persons from Government agencies and other organizations. Those I had in mind are most often provided by departmental agencies of Senate committees. They are not paid officials of the Senate, and they are not regular employees of the Senate committees.

Almost every Senate committee has at some time had the services of experts and clerical assistants loaned to them by Government departments. Some of these individuals often serve with Senate committees for months at a time. The practice of borrowing Government personnel is a long-standing one. I know there are many reasons why the practice is continued, and I do not arbitrarily condemn it.

From time to time, however, there are aspects of this practice of borrowing Government agency personnel which have appeared to be highly questionable. In a few instances the practice has gone beyond propriety to the point of an abuse of the principles which should govern the work of Senate committees.

Before questioning any feature of a practice of such long standing, it seemed to me desirable to ascertain some facts about it. What agencies are loaning personnel to Senate committees? How many individuals are loaned out in this manner? What annual rates of pay do they receive? What Senate committees are furnished with this personnel? With knowledge about such facts, we could form a better judgment of the propriety of the practice, and what, if anything, we should do about it.

With that thought in mind, I offered an amendment to Senate Resolution 319 in the following language:

"Hereafter standing or select committees employing the services of persons who are not full-time employees of the Senate or any committee thereof shall submit monthly reports to the Senate (or to the Secretary during a recess or adjournment) showing (1) the name and address of any such person: (2) the name and address of the department or organization by whom his salary is paid; and (3) the annual rate of compensation in each case."

Senate Resolution 319, with this amendment, was agreed to August 23, 1944. Beginning with the end of August and continuing to the present time, monthly reports have been made by standing and special committees, including subcommittees, of persons employed by them who are not regularly employed by the committees or by the Senate itself.

I have observed those reports from time to time as they have appeared in the Congressional Record. Recently I made a check of the over-all results from the time the resolution was passed up to and including December 31, 1944. The check is, admittedly, a rough one for several reasons. The indexing of the Record is

not so perfect that it lists each and every one of these committee reports, so I may have missed some, especially those which are not in tabular form. The reports themselves are not all uniform, and that makes an over-all computation difficult. The details of the reports also change from month to month, and there are a few instances of overlapping items.

There is enough about these reports, however, to permit what accountants would call an unadjusted summary of the facts having substantial accuracy. That is what I now wish to place before the Senate.

In the period from the passage of Senate Resolution 319 on August 23 to December 31, 1944, a total of 14 Senate committees reported having borrowed personnel. Of this number 10 are standing committees and their subcommittees. The number of departments or organizations furnishing personnel to Senate committees totals 26, of which 25 are Government agencies and 1 is a private organization.

The total number of individuals furnished to committees was 97; 95 from Government agencies and 2 from private sources. The average number of individuals on loan to all committees over each month from August to December was 72. This does not mean that 72 different persons were loaned to committees each month. Many of the same people from the same Government agency serve the same Senate committee month after month. My figure simply means that if we take any single month and make an inventory of borrowed personnel, we will find on the average some 72 individuals from outside agencies at work with Senate committees.

The average total annual rate of pay received by these individuals is $253,560. In other words, on the average during any month since these reports under Senate Resolution 319 began, there were borrowed by Senate committees 72 individuals whose annual rate of pay totaled $253,560. Reduced to a simple statistical concept, each month 14 reporting Senate committees are being assisted by an average of 72 outside persons whose average monthly base rate of pay totals $21,130.

I would have Senators bear in mind the limitations of statistics like these. A Senate committee may borrow a Government expert for a single month. Under the simple reports now being made, the committee would report that one employee, along with others, and list his annual rate of pay at, say, $6,500. The committee may have him for 1 month only, and never again, but the facts would be reported as I have given them. We shall never know the true state of affairs until committee accounting is improved to the point where every individual serving a committee is actually paid out of the committee funds for the period he serves, whether it is 1 day, 1 week, or a year. Then committee accounts will show the facts in proper form.

Until we have facts reported in accurate form, we can only rely on estimates, averages, and other statistical assumptions. Within these limitations, the figures I have given do reflect the condition of affairs on this question of borrowing Government personnel for service on Senate committees.

I am not ready to offer conclusions on the facts as they appear to date. I think a longer time experience is needed, and I shall want more accurate accounting detail. It may be possible for me to have the General Accounting Office keep track of these reports and tabulate them. Perhaps the Committee on the Reorganization of Congress will take up the problem. Some supervision over the facts will have to be arranged.

I merely wanted to bring such facts as are presently available to the attention of the Senate; and to say that when the picture is more complete, I expect to present an analysis of them and discuss their broader implications.

Mr. President, the practice referred to by the Senator from Illinois is one about which I think the Senate should arrive at a determination, and I wish to join with the chairman of the committee and the committee in the policy they have adopted. I endorse everything they have said. I think the report is timely, and I hope that, without objection, the exhibit I have may be printed in the RECORD, showing the conclusions of the investigation, and giving the statistics. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the Senator from Nebraska?

There being no objection, the exhibit was ordered to be printed in the RECORD, as follows:

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