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of the water if they don't stay on their side HENRY M. JACKSON, Democrat, of Washing- ships. The other ships refused to leave and of the fence, the least we can do is to quit ton, Senator THOMAS H. KUCHEL, Repub- protested by staging what Senator ENGLE paying handsomely for the privilege of get- lican, of California, Congressman LIONEL called a "maritime sitdown strike." ting kicked in the teeth.
VAN DEERLIN, Democrat, of California, and Senator KUCHEL's idea of cutting off for Congressman BOB WILSON, Republican, of eign aid to these nations should be promptly California:
TELECASTS U.S. TUNA FISHERMEN VERSUS considered.
Question. Well, Senator ENGLE, we have [From the Los Angeles Herald Examiner, “You are already advised of our concern been reading in the press where some of our Oct. 14, 1963]
about the seizure of U.S. tuna fishing vessels tuna boats have got into difficulties off the A WISE MOVE
by the Ecuadoran Navy. We have today coast of Ecuador. As a matter of fact, I
conferred at length with Assistant Secretary believe that some gunboats took two of these Senator THOMAS H. KUCHEL, Republican, of State Edwin Martin and other State De boats under custody. I would like to have of California, has proposed to the U.S. Senate
partment authorities with the objective of your comment on that. that the United States cut off foreign aid
exploring all possible action by our Govern Senator ENGLE. That is correct. They took to any Latin American country that inter
ment to protect U.S. fishermen and their two of our boats and then all the rest of feres with U.S. fishing boats on the high
ships. We are also anxious to determine how our fishing fleet down there moved into the seas.
these vessels might be removed to safety port with them in protest as sort of a mariSenator KUCHEL asked that the foreign aid
without forfeiture of the rights of our fisher time sitdown strike. In other words, they bill, now before the Foreign Relations Com
men or prejudice of the principles for which took the two in-all the rest went in. Now mittee, be amended to terminate aid to any
they seek recognition. We believe that it they involve about $15 million in investcountry which claims jurisdiction for fishing
is imperative that a special representative ment; they are not small boats; they are beyond the three-mile limit which is in
from the White House or the Department of big ones. And the loss to that fleet today ternationally recognized.
State be dispatched immediately to Ecuador is at least $1,000 a day per boat. So it is We heartily second the motion, for as we
to personally advise our fishermen of the not a small incident and it has stirred up said editorially last June when Ecuadorean
Government's concern, inasmuch as they are some trouble between us and the Ecuadoran authorities were seizing our Southern Calicut off from normal communication.”
Government. fornia tuna fishing boats far beyond the
Question. When you say loss, you mean 3-mile limit and assessing the owners heavy
"WARREN G. MAGNUSON,
because they are not fishing? fines:
"HENRY M. JACKSON, If Ecuador is unmoved by our plea for
Senator ENGLE. Yes; that is right. That is “THOMAS H. KUCHEL,
exactly right. In other words, it is $1,000 a justice and insists on arresting and fining
day for every day they are not out there. U.S. tuna boat operators, this country should
"LIONEL VAN DEERLIN,
Now that is $20,000 a day on 20 boats. That cut off U.S. aid. Fair play works two ways."
is what it amounts to. In declaring to the Senate that since 1954
"Members of Congress." Question. Senator, some people have demore than 50 American tuna boats have
scribed this as an international incident, at been seized or intimidated in international
least an incident of international proporwaters, Senator KUCHEL said:
JUNE 10, 1963.
tions. Would you agree with that? "I propose that we serve notice that such WASHINGTON, D.C.-Senator CLAIR ENGLE,
Senator ENGLE. Yes; because it basically inassistance will be cut off if they persist in Democrat, of California, is author of a new trying to blackmail our boatowners and Senate bill designed to strengthen the hand
volves the question of whether or not a coun
try can claim an area of the sea not recogskippers. We must let these people we like of the State Department in negotiations with
nized in international law. To illustrate: to regard as good neighbors know that the Ecuador over fishing rights of the San Diego
Ecuador says that it has a right to control United States no longer will take such un based tuna fleet.
the sea 200 miles from its border. neighborly treatment lying down. Cosponsors of the Engle bill to date are
nize 3 miles. In some areas they recognize “The United States has been long suffer Senators WARREN G. MAGNUSON, Democrat, of
12—Denmark, Norway and some others-uning. In fact, we seem often to have turned Washington, chairman of the Senate Com
der recent international agreements. But the other cheek. I feel that after a decade merce Committee; HENRY M. JACKSON, Demo
Ecuador says 200 miles. of such conduct the time has arrived when crat, of Washington, and VANCE HARTKE, we must take stern measures."
Question. Well now, what's the basis of Democrat, of Indiana. The U.S. Senate should consider that such “I have introduced this bill because I
this disagreement by Ecuador? incidents as the Ecuadoran fishing contro think repeated harassment of our tuna fleet
Senator ENGLE. The basis of this disagreeversy may well become only a part of a much by Ecuador—they have seized our ships be
ment is that Ecuador says that these ships larger picture. Long distance fishing in infore-calls for a firm response from us,"
were fishing within the limits which they ternational waters has become a worldwide Senator ENGLE said.
lay down. Now they don't say 200 miles. industry in which the United States, Soviet June 5 the State Department announced
They say, in fact, 3—or at least 12—and Russia, Japan, and other nations are heavily
that negotiators are being sent to Ecuador there is an argument about that. But, neyinterested. And large scale fishing from to seek both an agreement on the release
ertheless, what has happened is this the southern California can be matched from of two tuna boats seized in late May and a
right of a fishing fleet to go on the high seas other Pacific, Atlantic, and gulf coast fishing long-term resolution of the dispute over
has been challenged. And it seems to me ports. fishing rights.
that it presents a basic issue in interna
The announcement Mr. KUCHEL. Mr. President, all my
tional law and it must be settled one way ENGLE'S June 3 request to President John F.
or the other. colleagues share a real joy and a heart
Kennedy that he expedite U.S. intervention Question. Senator, it seems to me that felt gratitude that our colleague, the dis
on behalf of the tuna fleet-a request in there have been other incidents like thistinguished junior Senator from Cali
which he was joined by Senators MAGNUSON seizure of some of our fishing boats—why fornia [Mr. ENGLE] is recovering from and JACKSON and THOMAS H. KUCHEL, Re is this one suddenly more important? his tragic illness. We wish him God- publican, of California.
Senator ENGLE. Well now, 2 years ago they speed. Once again, we send him and
"In the long run," Senator ENGLE said, seized some of our ships and we arbitrated
that. his dear wife our greetings. He has 99 "I believe that negotiations will resolve the
But the reason this is important is friends in the U.S. Senate.
problem. I don't want to see a return to because our tuna fishermen finally got tired
'gunboat diplomacy' where we send the The junior Senator from California Navy down there to escort our fishing fleet
of it and they said if they take two of our
boats, the whole gang will go in. And so, has been an assiduous and constant out of the Ecuadorian harbor."
we have 20 down there off the shores of worker in the cause of fairplay to Amer The new Engle bill would authorize an Ecuador, as I am saying. So when the gunican fishermen. He and I have joined embargo of Ecuador's fish exports in the boats took over two, the other 18 just said, in the amendment which is now pending.
event of future interference by that coun we'll go to court, too. And there they sit. I ask unanimous consent that several try with U.S. fishermen.
As I say, it is sort of a maritime sitdown comments which my colleague has made
Senator ENGLE continued, "My bill would strike right there in Salinas—the port of
indicate that the United States will not tol Salinas in Ecuador. on the general subject of fairplay to
erate the seizures of our tuna boats. It Question. Well, what have you done to American fishermen be printed in the
would set the tone for negotiations.” help solve this problem, Senator ENGLE? RECORD at this point.
Senator ENGLE'S proposals were prompted Senator ENGLE. I have done two things. There being no objection, the state- by the recent action of the Ecuadoran Gov No. 1, I asked the President of the United ments were ordered to be printed in the ernment in seizing two U.S. tuna boats in
States to send a personal emissary from the RECORD, as follows:
waters off Ecuador which, according to in White House or from the State Department
JUNE 4, 1963. ternational law, are open to all fishermen. to talk to the fishermen themselves so they WASHINGTON, D.C.-Senator CLAIR ENGLE, Ecuador claims control of the sea up to would know what is going on. After all, Democrat, of California, announced that 200 miles off its coast. The United States they are sitting there with their boats losthe following wire was sent to the President recognizes a 3-mile limit only.
ing money. And No. 2, I have introtoday by himself, Senator WARREN G. MAG The two tuna boats were part of a fleet duced a bill which says that we will NUSON, Democrat, of Washington, Senator from San Diego numbering more than 20 embargo shipments from Ecuador unless we
get an equitable settlement of this matter. Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, I mentioned the difficulties of the situation And I would go one step further. I would assure Senators that I shall not speak in the Gulf of Mexico, under which the support a provision and an amendment to very long.
great State of Texas and our own State the foreign aid bill that no country that
This amendment was inspired by the of Florida each have three-marineconfiscates our ships in violation of international law should receive one dollar of difficulties which occurred off the coast
difficulties which occurred off the coast league limitations into the gulf. That American aid.
of South America earlier this year. The limitation has been upheld by our own Question. Senator, do you think that matter is now under active negotiation Supreme Court.
Supreme Court. So there can be no negotiations are going to succeed, at least by our Department of State with the doubt that there are various limitations in the long run?
respective countries concerned, partic in coastal waters among the States of Senator ENGLE. I think we have enough ularly Ecuador, Peru, and Chile. Those this Nation. leverage so we can. I would hope so. At
three countries had made an agreement I have very great sympathy for the least we don't want to return to “gunboat
among themselves to extend their juris position taken by the Senator from Calidiplomacy” where we send the Navy down
fornia and his associates. I think it is there to shoot our way out of their harbor. diction 200 miles. Of coures, we cannot
accept that, but I submit that the pro ridiculous that some of our friends in The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. cedure of amendment is not the way to Latin America claim that their terriNELSON in the chair). The question is solve that kind of problem. It is a prob torial limits extend 200 miles. I think on agreeing to the amendment of the lem. I am sympathetic, but I believe it is a disturbing thing that nations all Senator from California to the commit that if we put this kind of amendment over the world are claiming various miletee amendment.
in the bill it will only make more difficult ages as parts of their coastal watersMr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, I the solution of the problem by those 3 miles, 6 miles, 3 leagues, 12 miles, 200 suggest the absence of a quorum. responsible for conducting the negotia miles, and some even farther. The PRESIDING OFFICER. The
tions. The problem has no relation I followed, with a great deal of interclerk will call the roll.
whatever to a foreign aid bill. It is est, the convention of several years ago. The legislative clerk called the roll, only one of many problems which arise I had hoped the difficulty could be adand the following Senators answered to in the course of our economic activi justed, but we wound up with the right their names:
ties in this case, it affects the fisher of nations to produce minerals from the [No. 214 Leg.) man.
bottom of the ocean within their own Allott Gruening Miller So I think it would not only be in
continental limits. Anderson Hart
This question has not been decided. It
is a matter of controversy among the Beall Hickenlooper Moss
if it were accepted. Bible Hill
nations. We ourselves, as stated by the
The way in which it has been modified
able Senator from California in his adBrewster Hruska
dress of yesterday—which was in most Burdick Humphrey Neuberger
unilaterally the fixing of the boundaries, Byrd, Va. Inouye Pearson
scholarly form, and I commend him on in the sea, where territorial jurisdiction Byrd, W. Va. Jackson Pell
it-suggested a 6-mile limitation at the Cannon Javits Proxmire extends. This in itself would be offen
Geneva Convention. There may be other Carlson Johnston Randolph
sive to other countries. It is one of the Case Jordan, N.C. Ribicoff
ways to try to do it, but I do not think aspects of the amendment which would Church Jordan, Idaho Robertson
this is a tolerable way to reach the probClark Keating Russell prejudice negotiations between our Gov
Kennedy Saltonstall ernment and other countries to adjust
I would gladly join with, support, and
fight for any effort to cut off importaDirksen Long, Mo. Smith It is not an easy matter to adjust.
tions to our country of products from Dodd
Long, La. Sparkman Only about a year or a year and a half Dominick Magnuson Talmadge
such nations as insist upon this ridicuago we and a number of nations which Douglas Mansfield Tower
lous attitude with respect to the coastal Eastland McCarthy Walters are interested in this problem held a
areas off their shores. That is in the Edmondson McClellan Williams, N.J. conference in Geneva. One of our Ellender McGovern Williams, Del.
field of commerce, and that is what is principal representatives there was Mr. Fong McIntyre Yarborough
involved in the problem. But when it Fulbright Mechem Young, N. Dak. Arthur 'Dean, a highly respected and
comes to the question of severing foreign Gore Metcalf Young, Ohio well-known lawyer. The members of
aid which may be as much to our interest Mr. HUMPHREY. I announce that the conference tried to determine what
as it is to the interest of any other counthe Senator from North Carolina (Mr. territorial limits were to be agreed upon,
try in any particular case ERVIN], the Senator from Wyoming [Mr. and they failed. I say this to illustrate
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The McGEE), the Senator from Michigan that it is not an easy problem.
time of the Senator has expired. [Mr. McNAMARA), the Senator from
Many countries have different territorial limits. Our own States have
Mr. FULBRIGHT. The Senator can Rhode Island [Mr. PASTORE), the Sen
use the floor in his own time, and I will ator from Mississippi [Mr. STENNIS), various territorial limits. For Texas I
For Florida it is request time. I will answer any questhe Senator from Missouri (Mr. SYMING- believe it is ten miles. For Florida it is
tions he wishes to ask me. TON], and the Senator from South Caro- 3 leagues, which is 8 or 10 miles.
Mr. HOLLAND. By cutting foreign lina (Mr. THURMOND] are absent on offi- Louisiana, I believe it is 3 leagues.
These differences occur among our own cial business.
aid in this manner we would not only States.
give an affront to other countries, but I also announce that the Senator from California [Mr. ENGLE] is absent be
To say that the United States, by would do violence to our best interests. itself, has the authority to determine
I think the remedy should be reached cause of illness. territorial limits would be extremely un
in some other wayMr. KUCHEL. I announce that the wise, and this is no time for it.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does Senators from Vermont (Mr. AIKEN and
This is a matter which can be deter the Senator from Florida seek recogniMr. PROUTY] and the Senator from Utah mined in the regular channels of diplo
tion? [Mr. BENNETT) are absent on official macy with the governments of the re
Mr. HOLLAND. I thought the Chair business. spective countries affected.
had recognized me. I apologize to the The Senator from Arizona [Mr. GOLD
The committee considered the amend Chair. WATER) and the Senator from Pennsyl- ment, and was sympathetic toward the The PRESIDING OFFICER. The vania [Mr. SCOTT) are necessarily ab- problem but the amendment was re
Senator from Florida is recognized. sent. jected by the committee.
Mr. HOLLAND. I feel keenly about The PRESIDING OFFICER. A quo Mr. HOLLAND and Mr. YARBOR the matter, because I would not want to rum is present. OUGH addressed the Chair.
see us put ourselves in a position, in the Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, I The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the eyes of other nations, of shooting at ask unanimous consent that I be allowed Senator yield; and, if so, to whom? something which we do not expect to hit. to speak not more than 5 minutes. Mr. FULBRIGHT. I yield first to the We have no uniformity as to our own [Laughter.] Senator from Florida.
States, and we have taken a position The PRESIDING OFFICER. With Mr. HOLLAND. Mr. President, I ap in the councils of states of the world out objection, it is so ordered.
preciate the fact that the Senator has in support of a 6-mile limitation.
Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, will State and the State which I represent up and be counted on this subject, as the Senator yield for a question?
in part. One or the other of these would well as in other fields where the rights Mr. HOLLAND. I yield.
be the limit which should be applied to of American citizens are crudely violated, Mr. FULBRIGHT. Does not the Sen other nations. I do not know which
I do not know which where they are made to suffer needless ator agree that to provide that the one they might respect. I point out that abuse and hardship. United States itself shall determine a in the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo be Mr. KUCHEL. Mr. President, the question with respect to which we have tween this country and Mexico a map arguments pro and con have all been been negotiating would be in itself an was attached to the treaty, which I have made. We are dealing with the Alliance affront to the countries with which we frequently observed and checked upon.
frequently observed and checked upon. for Progress and the question of how would like to find some solution?
It shows the international boundary, we can help our neighboring American Mr. HOLLAND. For the most part the limit, between Texas and Mexico, as countries. We do not deal here with it would be offensive; but whether offen going out 3 leagues into the Gulf of the problem of 3 leagues or 3 miles. We sive or not our friends to the south of Mexico. Yet, notwithstanding the fact
Mexico. Yet, notwithstanding the fact deal with the fact that Peru, Chile, and us are proud people, as we are. It flies that there is a difference of opinion in Ecuador now contend that they have in the face of the fact that we recognize this country in official circles as
this country in official circles as to complete sovereign jurisdiction 200 miles that this is a justiciable question, whether or not Mexico has jurisdiction seaward. When an American fisherman which requires consideration by a con out 3 leagues or 3 miles, the De comes, not 3 miles or 3 leagues, but 10 vention of nations. We have partici
We have partici- partment has said to our fishermen, or 20 or 30 or 40 or 50 miles or more from pated in such a convention. For us to “3 miles is the real limit out from their shores, the Ecuadoran Government say, because another nation does not Mexico, but do not take your ships be or the Chilean Government or the Perurecognize a 3-mile limitation which we
yond 3 leagues, because we are sure vian Government, as the case may be, recognize as to some States, but which
that they are going to insist that 3 comes out-frequently in vessels formerwe do not recognize as to other States, leagues is the limit, and you will be in
leagues is the limit, and you will be in ly owned by the U.S. Navy—and harasses and because we could not get our way trouble.”
American citizens in American ships tryin the convention, we are going to lay I am not repeating this second-hand. ing to earn their livelihood on the interdown the limitation ourselves, is not a
This has come to me from the State nationally recognized free and open high tenable or proper way to handle the Department. It leaves us in a position
Department. It leaves us in a position seas. The crew is frequently arrested, problem.
where there is no absolutism at all, even sometimes jailed, oftentimes fined; the I am equally sympathetic toward the
if we were relying upon the facts in the vessel is frequently seized and detained. dilemma of the Senators from Alaska.
law and not upon any question of amity It seems to me that, after 10 years of I would do everything in my power to
between independent countries.
having fellow Americans suffer that kind help them, in accord with proper action,
I do not believe that we can afford of indignity, the time has come for a but it would be going far afield if we were
to adopt this amendment in this par- specification or a qualification with to say, arbitrarily, “This is the limit ticular bill.
respect to these people, that we will not which we recognize"—whether we said
I thank the Senator for yielding. assist them under the Alliance for Progit would be 3 miles or 3 leagues, or 6 miles as at the convention, and that un
Mr. GRUENING. Mr. President, I un- ress if they deny American citizens the less other nations recognize it, we are
derstand the argument that this matter right to use the high seas.
I ask Senators to listen to what the going to penalize them. That is the sug
channels, and that it should be done by Department of the Interior has said to gestion that is offered.
future negotiation. However, we have me: I hope the amendment will not be
already had repeated acts of crude agadopted.
It becomes increasingly clear that the gression, seizure of boats, imprisonment United States must take perhaps more drasSeveral Senators addressed the Chair.
of our fishermen, and the levying upon tic action to protect its fishermen than it The PRESIDING OFFICER. The them of heavy fines.
has taken before. Chair recognizes the Senator from Texas [Mr. TOWER).
In the case of Alaska, where the Rus On behalf of my colleague from CaliMr. TOWER. Mr. President, it seems
sians are invading our area, we in effect fornia (Mr. ENGLE] and myself, I say this to me those of us who come from the
appear to say, “They are so big and in closing: The last sentence of our State of Florida or Texas, which came
powerful, we cannot do anything about amendment provides:
it." into the Union under rather peculiar cir
In the case of Ecuador and Peru,
The provisions of this subsection shall not cumstances, and therefore recognize 3
we appear to be saying, “They are little be applicable in any case in which the extenleagues, or approximately 10 miles, as
fellows and we are so noble, so we can sion of jurisdiction is made pursuant to not do anything either.”
international agreement to which the United our territorial waters, are protected in
States is a party. our claim by the amendment by the pro
To Ecuador we have given over $150 vision, under subsection (k) (1), which
million in foreign aid. TO Peru we have If I were the AID administrator, I reads, "has extended, or hereafter exgiven twice that amount under the Al
would want that written into the law, so tends, its jurisdiction for fishing purliance for Progress.
that I would be able to tell the people poses over any area of the high seas I remind the Senate that it will be whom I was trying to help, “You cannot beyond that recognized by the United some time before the money under this mistreat my people in this way.” States,” because the United States has foreign aid bill will be appropriated. I hope the amendment will be adopted. recognized plainly that our outer limit In the meantime the negotiations can Mr. LONG of Louisiana Mr. Presiis 3 leagues. Therefore, it seems to me proceed, and the negotiation will pro- dent, I have great sympathy with what that since the United States recognizes ceed with greater chances of success if the authors of the amendment seek to our territorial limit as 3 leagues, the the amendment is adopted.
accomplish. We have had to face the amendment does not alter that.
We will be nothing but a doormat of same problem in the Gulf of Mexico for I might add that we are not amending the world when we supinely submit to a number of years. Mexico claims a 10international law here; we are not uni outrage if we keep on saying all these mile limit; and upon a number of occalaterally declaring a limit to territorial violent actions can be later negotiated,
violent actions can be later negotiated, sions has seized-in our opinion, illegalwaters. We are not dictating custom when there is a sound and just leverage ly-fishing boats of the United States and usage to the whole world. We are that we can use. It is entirely legiti- from Louisiana, Florida, Texas, Mississimply making a condition for the re mate and proper that we should use the sippi, and other States. ceipt of our aid. In Texas our shrimp leverage of foreign aid. We are pouring I have resented that just as much as fishermen have had some highhanded money into these offending countries. other Senators have resented the seizure treatment at the hands of the Mexicans. There is some doubt about the value of of fishing boats which have home ports This provision is eminently fair. If they what we receive from it. These coun in their States. are going to get our money, why should tries blackjack our people, arrest them, However, this is an area of internathey not recognize our rights?
and in some cases imprison them and tional law which is not at all settled. Mr. HOLLAND. First, I point out fine them, as well as deprive them of
fine them, as well as deprive them of I was one of the advisers of the Senate that the Senator recognizes that the their livelihood.
at the Law of the Sea Conference in limit with regard to some of our States I hope the amendment will be adopted. Geneva. The one thing we could not is 3 miles, and it is 3 leagues for his I believe it is high time that we stand get agreement on was as to the limits
of territorial waters. We were willing this is international law, it should accept The rollcall was concluded. to compromise for exclusive rights for the same principle as affecting Federal Mr. HUMPHREY. I announce that 6 miles, with the right exclusively to con State relationships?
the Senator from North Carolina [Mr. trol fishing 12 miles out. That was the It would be entirely proper to say, "If ERVIN), the Senator from Wyoming (Mr. compromise we proposed. We could not you do not accept the World Court deci- MCGEE], the Senator from Michigan obtain agreement to that proposal. sion as to what your boundaries are, we [Mr. McNAMARA),
McNAMARA), the Senator from Therefore, we still adhere to the 3-mile will deny you the benefit of our foreign Rhode Island (Mr. PASTORE), the Senator limit, even though we proposed to recog aid program.”
from Mississippi (Mr. STENNIS], the Sennize a 12-mile limit for fishing purposes. However, it is quite different to say, ator from Missouri [Mr. SYMINGTON),
This is an element of sovereignty that “This is the law, because we think it is; and the Senator from South Carolina other nations possess. There are only and if you will not agree to that, we will [Mr. THURMOND] are absent on official two ways in which we can take it from refuse to do any business with you. We business. them, either by warfare or by interna do not want you as an ally or friend or
I also announce that the Senator from tional agreement. So far, other nations anything else.” To me, that is a good California (Mr. ENGLE) is absent because have not agreed with us in an interna example of how to lose friends and alien- of illness. tional conference. So long as we cannot ate people. Irving D. Tressler once
I further announce that, if present establish this as being international law, wrote a book on that subject. This
and voting, the Senator from South it seems to me rather unfair to say that
could be a new chapter: "Either you Carolina [Mr. THURMOND] would vote we will insist upon an attribute of sov will have to accept our version of the
“yea." ereignty which is still unsettled at in law, or we will not have anything to do
On this vote, the Senator from Caliternational law, and therefore we will with you."
fornia [Mr. ENGLE] is paired with the not do business with a particular nation. I quite agree with the Senator. Much
Senator from Michigan [Mr. McNAIt seems to me that this is saying to
as this problem has perplexed us, we a nation, “You must relinquish an elewould not want to insist that other na
MARA). If present and voting, the Sen
ator from California would vote "yea," ment of sovereignty in order to benefit tions have to accept, unilaterally, our
and the Senator from Michigan would from our foreign aid program." declaration of what is international law,
vote “nay.” Many people do not agree with us. I
as a condition of our doing business with
them. regret to say that the majority of the
On this vote, the Senator from Misnations of the world do not agree with I shall feel constrained to vote against sissippi (Mr. STENNIS) is paired with the us on the 3-mile limit, and that it will the amendment, although I should like Senator from Rhode Island (Mr. PASnever be agreed to. We must go farther to see something done about this prob- TORE]. If present and voting, the Senlem.
ator from Mississippi would vote "yea,” out if we are to obtain any agreement. We offered a 12-mile limit for fishing
Mr. KUCHEL. Mr. President, in the and the Senator from Rhode Island rights, but we could not persuade a ma
preceding Congress, the Senator from would vote "nay." jority of the nations to agree with us.
Iowa offered an amendment to deny for Mr. KUCHEL. I announce that the Under these circumstances, it seems
eign aid to any country which expro- Senators from Vermont (Mr. AIKEN and
priated American property without just Mr. PROUTY] and the Senator from Utah to me we would be making a serious mis
compensation. The Senate, over the
The Senate, over the [Mr. BENNETT) are absent on official take to tell a foreign nation, “Unless you
violent objection of the Department of business. agree that international law is what we
State, approved the amendment. It was think it is with regard to an essential
The Senator from Arizona [Mr. GOLDwritten into law. I voted for it, as did WATER) and the Senator from Pennsylelement of your sovereignty, we will not
a majority of Senators. It was a good vania (Mr. SCOTT) are necessarily absent. trade with you under our foreign aid
thing. No Senator at that time said, program.” “We are trying, now, to impinge upon
If present and voting, the Senator I would be willing to say, "We will not
the sovereign rights of another nation.” from Utah [Mr. BENNETT), the Senator let you ship any of your fish to us if
When we wrote the mutual security from Arizona (Mr. GOLDWATER), and the you insist on exclusive rights in an area
legislation and agreed to the great Alli- Senator from Pennsylvania (Mr. SCOTT] where we think we have a right to fish.”
ance for Progress program which I have would each vote "yea.” However, to go beyond that, and say,
long supported, we specified criteria, The result was announced-yeas 57, "Because you will not accept what our whether it be land reform or tax reform, nays 29, as follows: interpretation of international law is, before we would help a country. In fact, which is not at all settled in international in this Chamber in the last week these
[No. 215 Leg.] law and before the world, we will deny
YEAS—57 criteria have been pointed to with great you assistance furnished under our for- pride as an example of the only foreign
Moss eign aid program,” would be making a aid program which is hemispheric wide Bartlett
Gruening Mundt bad mistake, and would put us in a bad in scope and aim.
Muskie light before the world.
Neuberger Mr. HOLLAND. Mr. President, will President, is to provide that the U.S. Brewster Inouye
Pearson the Senator yield? Government shall not help any nation Burdick
Ribicoff Mr. LONG of Louisiana. I yield. which violates the freedom of the seas.
Jordan, N.C. Russell Mr. HOLLAND. Is it not correct to I am not speaking about 3 leagues or Carlson
Jordan, Idaho Saltonstall say that Norway and Great Britain had 3 miles; I am talking about a country
Curtis asserting jurisdiction 200 miles offshore.
Smith a dispute on this same question, as to
Magnuson Talmadge whether the 3-mile limit applied off The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Dodd
Dominick McIntyre Williams, Del.
Mechem ther out, and found it so impossible of ment, as modified, offered by the Sen
Yarborough Eastland Metcalf
Young, N. Dak. solution between themselves that they ator from California [Mr. KUCHEL] for Edmondson Miller
Young, Ohio submitted the question to the World himself and the junior Senator from
NAYS-29 Court, and that the World Court ulti California [Mr. ENGLE] to the committee
Holland Monroney mately issued one of its few binding de amendment. The yeas and nays have Byrd, W. Va. Humphrey Morton crees, holding that the limit off Norway been ordered, and the clerk will call the Case
Proxmire was 4 miles ?
Randolph Mr. LONG of Louisiana. The Senator The legislative clerk proceeded to call Cooper
Long, Mo. Smathers is correct. The State of Louisiana is the roll.
Fulbright Long, La. Sparkman
Mansfield Walters now trying to get the Federal Govern Mr. HICKENLOOPER (when his name
McCarthy Williams, N.J. ment to recognize the concept that was was called). On this vote I have a pair Hartke
McGovern agreed upon by the World Court, with with the Senator from Wyoming [Mr.
NOT VOTING-14 our State holding, under the settled tide- McGEE). McGEE). If he were present and vot Aiken
Hickenlooper Scott lands dispute between the Federal Gov- ing, I understand he would vote “nay." Bennett McGee
Stennis ernment and Louisiana, that if the Fed If I were at liberty to vote, I would vote
McNamara Symington Ervin
Pastore eral Government is willing to agree that
Thurmond "yea." I withhold my vote.
So the amendment offered by Mr. limit, but a two-thirds majority was re States in our Nation and the 3-league KUCHEL for himself and Mr. ENGLE to the quired, and it was impossible to obtain a limit applied to others? committee amendment was agreed to. two-thirds majority.
Mr. LONG of Louisiana. The Senator Mr. LONG of Louisiana. Mr. Presi However, this amendment would tell is entirely correct. We could not even dent
every Latin American country that it get from our own Supreme Court a deciThe PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. Mc could not receive any of our foreign aid sion which would support the State DeGOVERN in the chair). The Senator unless it reduced its territorial sover partment in doing what the bill would from Louisiana.
eignty to not to exceed 3 miles, even require the Department to do. Mr. KUCHEL. Mr. President, I move though the United States proposes a 12 Mr. HOLLAND. Mr. President, will that the vote by which the amendment mile limit.
the Senator yield further? was agreed to be reconsidered.
Mr. HOLLAND. Mr. President, will Mr. LONG of Louisiana. I yield. Mr. LONG of Louisiana Mr. Presi the Senator from Louisiana yield?
Mr. HOLLAND. Is it not true, as I dent, I have the floor
Mr. LONG of Louisiana. I yield. previously stated, that in a somewhat Mr. KUCHEL. First, Mr. President, Mr. HOLLAND. I note that the similar argument between the nation of I move that the vote by which the amendment as modified and adopted Norway and the United Kingdom about amendment was agreed to be reconsi provides:
where the border of Norway was, that dered.
No assistance shall be furnished under this those nations came to such irreconcilable Mr. LONG of Louisiana. Mr. Presi Act to any country which (1) has extended, positions that they submitted the quesdent, I have the floor; I have been rec or hereafter extends, its jurisdiction for fish tion to the World Court, and the World ognized, and I do not yield for the pur ing purposes over any area of the high seas
Court, after months of study and scholpose the Senator from California has in beyond that recognized by the United
arly digging into the subject, rendered Statesmind. I know he would like to move
a verdict that 4 miles, and not 3 miles, that the vote by which the amendment And then another condition is set was the legal limit off the outer islands was agreed to be reconsidered; but most forth.
of Norway? Senators have not heard the merits in Is it not true that, by decision of the Mr. LONG of Louisiana. I cannot volved in the argument over this amend Supreme Court of the United States, two recall that particular point as well as I ment, and I wish to address myself to different limits as to our own territorial recall the case in general. The decision that subject because, in my opinion, this jurisdiction have already been recog in the Norwegian fisheries case held that is the most ridiculous amendment nized-one of 3 miles as to all of the lit- Norway went far beyond anything our adopted at this session of Congress or, toral States except two; the other as to State Department was ever willing to
that matter, at any time during my 3 leagues, or three times the other dis- recognize. We went to the Geneva Conservice in the Senate.
tance, for the other two States? Is not ference insisting that the Norwegian The amendment would begin termina that correct?
fisheries decisions rendered by the World tion of the entire loan program to Latin Mr. LONG of Louisiana. That is cor Court would indicate the kind of preAmerica. For example, the United rect.
dicament we would be in. The World States recognized, under international The two Senators from Texas voted Court decided for those people. We law, a limit of only 3 miles as the bound for this amendment. Mr. President, pic- would have to accept our own interpretaary of a State's territorial sovereignty. ture for a moment the situation if Texas tion of the law even if the World Court But this amendment would involve us were now a sovereign nation, as she once should say that that is not the law. in all sorts of trouble with nations along was. Texas won her case before the Mr. HOLLAND. Mr. President, will the Gulf of Mexico and the Pacific, be Supreme Court of the United States the Senator yield?
every Latin American country when she claimed that she is entitled Mr. LONG of Louisiana. I yield. claims sovereignty for a distance of more to jurisdiction over a 10-mile or 3-league Mr. HOLLAND. The Senator from than 3 miles beyond her coastline. In limit. What do Senators think the Louisiana is very learned in that field. addition, Louisiana has been in con proud State of Texas would have said He devoted months to the question when troversy with the Federal Government if, at the time when Texas was an in the Senate considered the tidelands bill. because Louisiana claims that her juris- dependent nation, the United States had I should like to ask the Senator if he diction extends for more than 3 miles said to her, "We will give you aid or knows what the amendment provides from the coast; so does Texas; and so lend you some money, provided you strip when it refers to a limit "recognized by does Florida. This controversy is the yourself of sovereignty over 7 of those
yourself of sovereignty over 7 of those the United States”? Is it the 3-mile most difficult State-Federal Government 10 miles”? In that case, Texas would limit or the 3-league limit? relations problem, plus the most difficult certainly have told the United States Mr. LONG of Louisiana. It must be international problem, that I know of. to go you know where, Mr. President. the 3-mile limit, because at the Geneva So far as I have been able to deter
Mr. President, if we would not expect Conference we offered to agree on a mine, every State that borders on the
the proud State of Texas or any other 12-mile limit and we could not obtain Gulf of Mexico and every State that proud State to knuckle under to such an any agreement on such a limit. borders on the Caribbean and every extent, and thus strip herself of that When we could not reach an agreefriendly nation in this hemisphere that
considerable amount of sovereignty, ment on a 12-mile limit we said, “Very borders on the Pacific Ocean claims sov what do Senators believe would be the well; so far as we are concerned, it is still ereignty for a distance of more than 3
reply which would be given by the con 3 miles. That is where we stand." miles from her coastline.
siderable number of free and independ We are still holding out for a 3-mile The United States participated in the ent nations to which the amendment limit. As a practical matter, our Louisiconference at Geneva, and sent me there would apply?
ana fishing vessels have been seized, as as one of its delegates. At the confer
Mr. HOLLAND. Mr. President, will others have been. I know what the State ence, the United States offered to recog the Senator yield?
Department is doing. It says, "We recnize a 6-mile territorial limit for com Mr. LONG of Louisiana. I yield. ognize a 3-mile limit. Tell your shrimp plete sovereignty, and a 12-mile terri
Mr. HOLLAND. Is it not true that be boat operators not to go within three torial limit for fishing rights. Yet the fore the Supreme Court of the United leagues of the Mexican coast if they do amendment provides that the United
States could render the final decision not want to be arrested.” Frankly, we States shall not give 5 cents of aid to any which it rendered establishing a 3-mile do not recognize that limit, but we reof those countries if they claim sover limit for all the maritime States except spect it, for we know that we can either eignty or jurisdiction for more than 3
two, and 3 leagues for those two, years respect it or go to jail or go to war. miles, even though the United States
were consumed in argument on the Those are the alternatives. herself had already offered to recognize a floors of the House and the Senate; and Now it is proposed that we cut off all 12-mile limit.
finally, after the passage of the legisla, foreign aid if the limits stated are not Mr. DOUGLAS. At the conference, tion, several different cases were taken recognized.
recognized. Those proud countries will were the representatives of the United before the Supreme Court and after tell us that they will have nothing to do States successful in persuading other many days and weeks of argument, if with the aid. countries to agree to a 12-mile limit? the time were added together, the The Senate may insist on its amendMr. LONG of Louisiana. More than 50 learned Court came forth with a rule
learned Court came forth with a rule ment if it desires to do so, but, as far as percent of them would agree to a 12-mile that the 3-mile limit applied to certain I am concerned, it can be written over