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point expressed very clearly by the Sen conference; but, in addition, would it vide instructions to the Senate conator from Iowa (Mr. HICKENLOOPER) as not be possible for the conferees to drop ferees. to the Yemen. This is a different prob both provisions and leave the conference I think the Senator from Alabama lem. I do not think it is a problem that report completely silent on this matter, [Mr. SPARKMAN), the ranking Democrat this amendment is designed to meet. It just as the bill as reported by the Senate on the committee, will agree that the is a different problem. I do not know committee is silent in regard to it? conference report would not omit any what the President will do. But I think Mr. FULBRIGHT. In my opinion, such amendment or provision of this we must trust him, as we trusted Presi that could not be done. The conference sort. I am sure he will speak for himdent Eisenhower to carry out a policy committee would have to arrive at a rec self as to that. within his own responsibility, and with onciliation of the differences between the Mr. SPARKMAN. Yes, Mr. President; the knowledge that he had to deal with two versions. The principal difference I strongly believe that under the rules a specific case.

lies in the giving of discretion to the and precedents and procedures in reWe cannot sit here and anticipate all President, which in my opinion is a very gard to conference committees, the conthe contingencies that may arise. Un difficult provision to apply.

ference report would have to include der any circumstances, I think even my Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, will the essence of this amendment, because substitute amendment would be difficult the Senator from Arkansas yield?

it is included not only in this amendment to administer in a really effective way. Mr. FULBRIGHT. I yield.

but also in the substitute; and on the It would be very difficult to judge who is Mr. MANSFIELD. Is it not true that assumption that I will be one of the conan aggressor. Every country always this provision could not be dropped, be- ferees, I can certainly give assurance, contends that the other country is the cause each House would have adopted an for my part, that it will be included in aggressor; and the other country always amendment or a provision of the bill to the conference report. says it is only defending itself. I do not this general effect, and the conference Mr. DOUGLAS. Mr. President, I apknow of any case in which a country has committee would have to deal with them, preciate the statements made by these admitted it was an aggressor, except pos and therefore some provision of the sort two eminent and highly honorable Sensibly Germany in World War I. There would have to be drafted ?

ators. I am sure they make their stateare few cases in which a country has Mr. FULBRIGHT. Exactly. Further- ments in good faith-although I know made any pretense about being an ag more, the principle of the two is prac- they will be importuned by representagressor. Generally speaking, 99 percent tically the same.

tically the same. So there could be no tives of the State Department, perhaps of the time a country says it is only de justification for dropping the principle with the result that, if the essence of the fending itself. They may be taking pre in regard to an aggressor. The question amendment comes back to us in the conventive action. Even if they take overt is, what would be the circumstances for ference report, I am afraid it will be, as action, they say it is the other nation that its application? For example, let us con- Lincoln once said, like soup made from is committing the offense and that they sider the fishing amendment, which the

sider the fishing amendment, which the the shadow of a crow which had starved are really anticipating another attack. Senate adopted earlier today. In my to death. That is what the Senator was saying opinion, all of us agree on its objective, Mr. FULBRIGHT. But I point out about the war in 1956.

but the difficulty is that the amendment that not only will the Senate conferees Mr. JAVITS. The Senator from Ore- will not accomplish it.

be responsible to the Senate; the House gon [Mr. MORSE) and I tried during the In this case, I think the amendment is conferees will be responsible to the Eisenhower administration to do exactly much too stringent. It leaves no discre

It leaves no discre- House, also. what we are trying to do now. We tion to the President, and it applies to Mr. DOUGLAS. Mr. President, the sought to amend or modify the act in any other country—which is much too Senator from Arkansas is very charitaorder to have anything done at all. Now broad a provision. That is my objection ble; and of course the Senate conferees we have a record of noncompliance by to it.

will have their responsibilities, too. The the State Department and the President, I believe that the Senator's fear that Senator from Arkansas is most perand I cannot see them changing their no such provision would eventually be suasive, too. policy unless we change our instructions. included, as a result of the work of the

Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, the Mr. FULBRIGHT. I do not recall

conference committee, is a mistaken one. Senator from Illinois is very compliwhat the Senators did, but since the war

However, I think the President should mentary, but I do not know where he in 1956 there has not been any overt ag be given authority to use his discretion. obtains any justification for his stategression in this area, unless it be in the Mr. DOUGLAS. I know the situation ment that I am most persuasive. In Yemen affair; and I am not sure that

has changed since the days of George view of the recent developments in this that is overt aggression, because they Norris, who charged that Congress was

Norris, who charged that Congress was Chamber, certainly I am not persuasive were invited in, as the Senator from Iowa composed of three houses—the Senate, in the Senate. said. the House of Representatives, and the

Mr. HUMPHREY. Mr. President, will They were invited there, just as we conference committees. Nevertheless, I the Senator from Arkansas yield? were invited to South Vietnam. So I do think the conference committees do have

Mr. FULBRIGHT. I yield. not think that could be classed as ag- great power.

Mr. HUMPHREY. Mr. President, I gression.

I am not as experienced in these mat

believe presidential discretion should be However, for some reason there has ters as is the Senator from Arkansas; but

provided. been peace there, not overt warfare, ex

The Gruening amendment I have known conference committees to cept in a few instances, although it was

provides: drop clauses which were included in both predicted, year after year, that an explo the House version and the Senate ver

No assistance shall be provided under this sion would occur there. sion, although in different form. Cer

or any other Act, * * * to any country which

the President determines is engaging in or Mr. DOUGLAS. Mr. President, will tainly this provision could be emascuthe Senator from Arkansas yield?

preparing for aggressive military efforts. lated still further, and yet finally be inMr. FULBRIGHT I yield.

cluded in such form that it would merely So that discretion would rest with the Mr. DOUGLAS. Was the language of be a statement of pious intent, with no

President. But I point out that the disthe Gruening-Javits-Morse amendment means whatsoever for implementation,

cretion would be very limited, under this contained in the bill as passed by the Mr. FULBRIGHT. I assure the Sen- language;

I assure the Sen- language; for example, the opening House of Representatives?

ator that there will be included in the words of the substitute are as follows: Mr. FULBRIGHT. It is my under conference report a provision which will No assistance shall be provided under this standing that it is in precisely the same adopt the principle of these two different Act to any country which the President delanguage, and that therefore there

versions, and I can pledge that I will termines is either engaging in aggressive milwould be no opportunity for consultation about this matter in the conference.

work to have that done. However, if itary efforts or is primarily engaged in an

anyone wishes to assume that I would aggressive military buildup preparatory to Mr. DOUGLAS. In other words, it In other words, it not carry out my pledged word, I point

aggressive military efforts directed againstwould be adopted.

(1) the United States, or out that the Senate could—if the con

(2) any other free country, The language of the amendment of the ference report did not include such a until the President determines and reports Senator from Arkansas differs markedly. provision-reject the conference report,

provision-reject the conference report, to the Congress that such military efforts or If it were adopted, would it not be in request a further conference, and pro- preparations have ceased.

The difference between the Gruening Finally, the President's discretion Mr. FULBRIGHT. I yield. amendment and the chairman's amend- would be as follows: If the security of Mr. KEATING. I wish to ask the ment is the elimination of the words the United States should be adversely Senator about some specific language in "under this Act." affected, he would not have to apply the his amendment.

his amendment. The proposal of the In regard to the giving of discretionary purposes of the act.

Senator would permit the continuation power to the President, I ask Senators to Mr. GRUENING. Mr. President, will of the benefits of Public Law 480 aid to consider how much discretion the Presi- the Senator yield?

any country that is engaging in aggresdent would have under the chairman's Mr. HUMPHREY. I conclude by say sion. Am I correct? amendment, as follows:

ing that I join in the statements of the Mr. FULBRIGHT. That would be up The President may waive this section only: Senator from Alabama [Mr. SPARKMAN] to the President.

(a) if he is unable to determine from all and the Senator from Arkansas [Mr. Mr. KEATING. The proposal of the of the facts coming to his knowledge whether FULBRIGHT). I do not see why Senators Senator would strike out of the Gruening or not an aggression has occurred or may think that the conferees will be unmind- amendment the pro

amendment the prohibition against sales occur—

ful of the determination of those of us under the Agricultural Trade DevelopWell, Mr. President, we would expect in this body to effect the substance of

in this body to effect the substance of ment and Assistance Act of 1954 and the President then to make a decision the amendments agreed to.

would be limited to that act? that he did not know what all of the I have been a conferee on foreign Mr. FULBRIGHT. The Senator is facts were or that he was unable to make aid bills for several years. I do not like correct. a judgment on the basis of those facts;

to be told that I am going to sell out, or Mr. KEATING. I call the Senator's we would expect that under either the that I am going to be unmindful of my attention to the fact that my informaamendment or under the chairman's obligations, or that the State Depart- tion is that

tion is that 80 to 90 percent of substitute.

ment is going to tell me what to do. the aid that we are giving to the United The chairman's substitute then pro

I have stood on the floor of the Sen Arab Republic is under Public Law 480. vides:

ate and fought against other Senators So the adoption of the Senator's amendor (b) if an aggressive act is reviewed and

on the principle of aid to Poland and ment as a substitute for the meaningful the facts determined by an appropriate in- aid to

aid to Yugoslavia-Communist coun Gruening amendment would mean that ternational bodytries. In one instance, Poland, which this aid would continue to flow to an ag

gressor under Public Law 480. In other words, if the United Nations is a member of the Warsaw Pact, was

involved. The Warsaw Pact causes our Second, I wish to ask the Senator the determined that there was no aggression

following question: The language proin a specific instance, the President country to spend billions of dollars every year.

posed by the Senator states that when would be permitted, under this proposal,

My principle has been as follows: I the President determines that a country to waive the application of the act. The

am not going to tell the President of the is either engaging in aggressive military chairman's substitute does not say he

United States that he has absolutely efforts or is primarily engaged in an agwould have to; it says he would be per

no discretion in relation to how to deal gressive military buildup preparatory to mitted to.

with these situations. The Senator an aggressive military effort, he must Then it says, as to the President's au

from Minnesota with others who are suspend aid. How do you distinguish bethority to waive this section:

right now standing alongside of me, has tween a country primarily engaged in an or (c) if he determines that the national

stood up under two administrations in aggressive military buildup as against security of the United States would be af

these debates and said, “I am not going one that is secondarily engaged in such a fected adversely by a determination under this section.

to tie the hands of President Eisenhower buildup? I do not understand the signif

or President Kennedy and say that be icance of the word "primarily," unless it Would any Senator expect the Presi

cause I hate communism worse than I is intended to give the State Department dent to apply any act of Congress if he hate Nasserism, he can never deal with an "out" so that it can say, "The country thought the national security of the Poland or Yugoslavia."

is engaged in an aggressive military United States would be adversely

I said, "Not on your life.” If the buildup, but it is not a primary engageaffected?

President, as Commander in Chief of the ment.” What is the meaning of the word Mr. FULBRIGHT. In relation to the Armed Forces of our country, as our "primarily”? last point, suppose a conflict should Chief Executive, as the chief spokesman Mr. FULBRIGHT. I believe it clearly break out between India and Pakistan.

of this country in our foreign policy, and means "engaged.” It is a question of There would be an instance of the prob as the only nationally elected officer of degree. In the beginning I said the lem. The President would have to take this Government, save the Vice Presi principal objection to the amendment of into consideration the geographical sit- dent, feels he sho'ıld have some little the Senator from Alaska—and to the uation.

discretion, I shall give it to him. present proposal, for that matter—is the Mr. HUMPHREY. Exactly. I do not I have voted time after time for that question of determining the motives and feel that the language of the substitute kind of policy. I have been accused of

purposes of a country. All countries of amendment would violate any principle being soft on communism because I have any consequence have armed forces. It of our determination to resist aggression, done it. I have not been soft on com

is almost impossible to determine to inhibit aggression, or to deny aid to munism. I have been loyal to the Con

whether they will use those forces agaggressors or would-be aggressors. stitution. The Constitution of our

gressively or defensively. All countries What the chairman has really done country places the foreign policy of the profess that their armed forces are for through his substitute is merely to pro- United States, its effectuation and ad purposes of defense. The word "privide language which would state that if ministration in the hands of the Presi- marily” is intended to refer to an aggresthe President does not have the facts and dent. I merely wish to make clear

sive military buildup. if he cannot ascertain what the facts are,

to my best friends in this body that I The question is difficult. I did not he ought not to make a judgment. I sup am not about ready to run out on a initiate the amendment. I would not port this amendment, but if it fails I will commitment that we make. I am not

commitment that we make. I am not have proposed either amendment. I vote for the Gruening amendment be- about ready to let the State Depart

about ready to let the State Depart- merely seek to amend the amendment of cause I believe that some amendment ment tell me that we ought to be nice the Senator from Alaska to make it halfdealing with the situation presented by to would-be aggressors or aggressors. way workable to the point where we the Government of the United Arab Re- But also I am not ready to tell the would leave with the President his conpublic is necessary.

President of the United States how to stitutional privileges and responsibilities Second, if an international organiza answer every single problem in every and not try to change them. tion to which we belong, such as the corner of the world on every issue. I The whole concept of determining and United Nations, should determine that do not think we have the information. basing a policy upon who is an aggressor there is no aggression in an instance in

Mr. FULBRIGHT. I wish to en is a very difficult one to apply. which the President thinks there may be dorse what the Senator has said. He is All I would say the word means is that aggression, the President would not be entirely correct in principle.

it refers to a country that is clearly enobligated under the act to apply the Mr. KEATING. Mr. President, will gaged in a military buildup. I do not substance of the act. He still could. the Senator yield?

think it will be easy to make the de

termination, even with the proposed tempting this renunciation of our re to the President that if a country is enlanguage. sponsibilities.

gaging in aggressive action or preparing Mr. KEATING. Mr. President, will I hope this last minute substitute will to engage in aggressive action, we do not the Senator yield further?

be defeated, because I can see no pros- want the President to spend any aid Mr. FULBRIGHT. I yield. pect of the substitute, if it is agreed to, money.

Finally, I do not trust the State DeMr. KEATING. I find the proposed stopping aggression either by Nasser or

partment in this field, as I do not trust language objectionable. I find the elimi- any other aggressor. nation of the proposal to cut off Public Mr. DOUGLAS. Mr. President, I ask them in so many other fields. We know Law 480 funds highly objectionable be- for the yeas and nays.

the opposition of the State Department cause the amendment would be made Mr. JAVITS. Mr. President, I ask for in regard to this matter. We know of virtually meaningless except to the ex- the yeas and nays on the substitute the bad-faith actions of the State Detent of 10 to 20 percent of the aid. amendment.

partment in the past in regard to the What we have heard sounds like the The yeas and nays were ordered. Keating-Douglas matter and in regard letters some of us have received from Mr. MORSE. Mr. President, I have to the Javits-Morse procedure. We have

had nothing in this field from the prothe Department of State under both the listened to this debate with great inpresent administration and the previous terest. I find no merit in the Fulbright Arab State Department but bad-faith

They are administration. The so-called Douglas- substitute, except that, in my judgment, conduct. They are evasive. Keating sense-of-Congress resolution

it is a diversionary tactic which would tricky. They seek to see what they can was applied to the foreign aid bill under result in bringing back to the Senate- do to conjure up ways of getting around the previous administration. The proif anything is brought back to the Sen- Congress. It is about time that Con

gress held the nose of the State Departposed amendments are administered as ate—an emasculated amendment that

ment to the grindstone and made it clear badly under one administration as under would not accomplish the purpose we another. have in mind.

that we intend to exercise our rights If the President is unable to deter

All we need to know is that the For- under the separation-of-powers docmine from all the facts coming to his at

eign Relations Committee did not report trine, and that we are determined to see tention whether or not an aggression has

a bill with this principle in it. The For- to it that this very important matter is occurred or may occur, he can waive

eign Relations Committee has demon- written into law. the provision.

strated that the majority of the com Mr. JAVITS. Mr. President, I wish to I have read to the Senate the lan

mittee is not friendly to the purpose of associate myself with the argument of guage of the Director of AID stating that Therefore, I believe it is important to

the amendment. We start with that. the Senator from Oregon. We should the operation in Yemen is not aggres

Therefore, I believe it is important to vote down the substitute and vote in fasion at all . It is something of another After all, we have our interests that

keep it away from them in conference. vor of the Gruening amendment. That nature. So can we not hear the answer

After all, we have our interests that is the only way to do anything constructo an inquiry as to how the law would be

must be protected, so far as the Senate tive tonight on this matter.
is concerned.

Mr. LAUSCHE. Mr. President, will administered? We would hear, “We have not cut it off because the President is

Next, I point out that we are not in the Senator yield? unable to determine from all the facts

terfering with a prerogative of the Presi Mr. JAVITS. I am glad to yield. dent of the United States, but we are

Mr. LAUSCHE. Mr. President, may coming to his knowledge whether or not an aggression has occurred or may oc

protecting a prerogative of the Senate, I ask the chairman of the Foreign Rela

which is to tell the President of the tions Committee whether his amendcur." That language would merely give them an "out.” It is the "out" that they

United States how he can spend the tax- ment meets with the approval of the have sought time and again. It is an

payers' money. That happens to be our administration? "out" that they have used under the duty.

Mr. FULBRIGHT. I am not certain existing language. It is in the bill now,

All we, as the protector of the coun- of that. I do not believe either amendand it is an "out" that is not in the

try's purse strings are saying to the ment meets with their approval. I do Gruening amendment. And I believe

President of the United States, is that he not know what their attitude would be. it should not be in the act.

shall not spend the money under certain However, I am sure, from what I know

fact situations. What are the fact situa- about it, that my substitute is more acI do not propose, as a Member of the

tions? If it is determined that a coun ceptable because it would give them Senate, to allow the question of whether

try is engaging in or preparing to engage more discretion in administering the our aid should be continued to a coun

in aggressive military efforts, he cannot act. try to be determined by the United Na

spend the taxpayers' money. We are not The PRESIDING OFFICER. The tions. That is what would happen under

interfering with the President's deter- question is on agreeing to the amendthe second provision, “if an aggressive minative power. As I said earlier in the ment offered by the Senator from Arkanact is reviewed and the facts determined

debate, the President has several groups sas [Mr. FULBRIGHT], in the nature of a by an appropriate international body."

of intelligence agencies to advise him. substitute for the amendment offered by If they reach some other conclusion, we

He has the CIA, the “intelligence” in the the Senator from Alaska [Mr. GRUENmust later give our aid. That, in my

State Department, and the "intelligence" ING], for himself and other Senators, to judgment, is not sound legislation; and in the Pentagon.

the committee amendment, as amended, I hope very much that this 11th hour

All I am saying is, "Mr. President, I in the nature of a substitute. On this effort to emasculate the Gruening

want you to know that I proceed on the question the yeas and nays have been amendment by this substitute will be

assumption that any President of the ordered, and the clerk will call the roll. voted down.

United States will always act in good The legislative clerk called the roll. Mr. GRUENING. I regret to say that faith in regard to his legislative respon Mr. HUMPHREY. I announce that I feel that the substitute would not

sibilities, which the Congress in the ex the Senator from Virginia [Mr. BYRD], merely emasculate my amendment, but ercise of its constitutional rights has the Senator from Mississippi [Mr. EASTwould scuttle it. The principal aid Nas- imposed upon him.”

LAND], the Senator from North Carolina ser is getting is under Public Law 480.

Mr. President, we are merely saying [Mr. ERVIN), the Senator from Missouri He has everything else. He has a power that if the President finds as a matter [Mr. LONG], the Senator from Louisiana plant, silos, housing, irrigation canals, of fact that any country is engaging in [Mr. LONG], the Senator from Washingand nearly everything else the imagina

or preparing to engage in aggressive ac- ton [Mr. MAGNUSON], the Senator from tion can conceive-much of which we tion, he shall not spend the taxpayers' Wyoming [Mr. McGEE], the Senator have supplied. This substitute amend

money by way of aid to that country. from Michigan [Mr. McNAMARA), the ment subtly—not too subtly—would reThat is all there is to it.

Senator from Rhode Island (Mr. Pasmove the Public Law 480 provision. So,

Do we want to do it, or not? Do we TORE], the Senator from Virginia [Mr. what would be left?

want to continue giving unchecked ROBERTSON), the Senator from Georgia In addition, if we turn this decision power in regard to the taxpayers' [Mr. RUSSELL], the Senator from Florida over to the United Nations, Congress money? In my judgment, the time has [Mr. SMATHERS], the Senator from Mismight as well quit. The Senate has ab- come when-in a dignified amendment sissippi (Mr. STENNIS], the Senator from dicated enough of its powers without at- such as we have offered—we should say South Carolina [Mr. THURMOND], and

"yea.”

the Senator from New Jersey (Mr. WIL Muskie

Pell
Walters

ator from Wyoming [Mr. McGEE). If LIAMS) are absent on official business.

Nelson

Saltonstall Young, N. Dak.
Neuberger Sparkman

present and voting, the Senator from I further announce that the Senator

Louisiana would vote "yea," and the

NAYS-46 from California [Mr. ENGLE] is absent

Senator from Wyoming would vote due to illness.

Allott

Gruening Mundt
Bartlett
Hart
Prouty

“nay.I further announce that, if present and

Hartke
Proxmire

On this vote, the Senator from Virginia voting, the Senator from Virginia [Mr.

Bible
Hill
Randolph

[Mr. ROBERTSON] is paired with the SenBYRD], the Senator from Georgia [Mr.

Boggs
Holland

Ribicoff
Brewster Hruska

Scott

ator from Rhode Island (Mr. PASTORE). RUSSELL), the Senator from Florida (Mr. Cannon

Javits
Simpson

If present and voting, the Senator from SMATHERS], the Senator from Mississippi Case

Johnston Smith

Virginia would vote “yea," and the SenCotton [Mr. STENNIS], would each vote “nay."

Jordan, N.C. Symington
Curtis
Jordan, Idaho Talmadge

ator from Rhode Island would vote On this vote, the Senator from Mis Dodd

Keating
Tower

“nay.” sissippi [Mr. EASTLAND] is paired with Dominick Kuchel

Williams, Del. I further announce that, if present the Senator from Michigan [Mr. Mc

Douglas

Mechem Yarborough
Edmondson Miller

Young, Ohio

and voting, the Senator from Virginia NAMARA).

Ellender
Morse

[Mr. BYRD], the Senator from Georgia If present and voting, the Senator Fong

Morton

[Mr. RUSSELL], the Senator from Florida from Mississippi would vote “nay" and

NOT VOTING—22

[Mr. SMATHERS], the Senator from Misthe Senator from Michigan would vote

Goldwater Robertson sissippi [Mr. STENNIS] would each vote "yea.” Bennett Long, Mo. Russell

"yea.”
Byrd, Va. Long, La. Smathers
On this vote, the Senator from Mis-

Cooper
Magnuson Stennis

On this vote, the Senator from South souri (Mr. LONG] is paired with the Sena- Dirksen McGee

Thurmond Carolina (Mr. THURMOND] is paired with tor from Washington [Mr. MAGNUSON). Eastland McNamara Williams, N.J.

the Senator from New Jersey (Mr. WILEngle

Pastore
If present and voting, the Senator

Ervin
Pearson

LIAMS). If present and voting, the Senfrom Missouri would vote “nay" and the

ator from South Carolina would vote Senator from Washington would vote

So Mr. FULBRIGHT'S amendment, as a
substitute for the amendment offered by would vote “nay.”

“yea," and the Senator from New Jersey On this vote, the Senator from Loui- Mr. GRUENING, for himself and other

Mr. KUCHEL. I announce that the siana [Mr. Long] is paired with the Senators, to the committee amendment

Senator from Vermont (Mr. AIKEN] and Senator from Wyoming [Mr. McGEE]. in the nature of a substitute, as amend

the Senator from Utah [Mr. BENNETT) If present and voting, the Senator ed, was rejected.

are absent on official business. from Louisiana would vote "nay" and the

Mr. GRUENING. Mr. President, I

The Senator from Illinois [Mr. DIRKSenator from Wyoming would vote “yea.” move to reconsider the vote by which

SEN], the Senator from Kentucky [Mr. On this vote, the Senator from Virthe amendment was rejected.

COOPER] the Senator from Arizona [Mr. ginia [Mr. ROBERTSON] is paired with

Mr. MORSE. Mr. President, I move GOLDWATER), and the Senator from Kanthe Senator from Rhode Island (Mr. PASto lay that motion on the table.

sas [Mr. PEARSON] are necessarily absent. TORE].

The motion to lay on the table was

If present and voting, the Senator from If present and voting, the Senator agreed to.

Utah [Mr. BENNETT), the Senator from from Virginia would vote "nay" and the

Mr. GRUENING. Mr. President, I Illinois (Mr. DIRKSEN), the Senator from Senator from Rhode Island would vote call for a vote on my amendment No. 231. Kentucky

Kentucky [Mr. COOPER), the Senator

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The "yea."

from Arizona [Mr. GOLDWATER), and the On this vote, the Senator from North question is on agreeing to the amend

Senator from Kansas [Mr. PEARSON] Carolina [Mr. ERVIN] is paired with the ment offered by the Senator from Alaska

would each vote "yea.” Senator from California [Mr. ENGLE). [Mr. GRUENING] for himself and other

The result was announced—yeas 65, : If present and voting, the Senator Senators to the committee amendment

nays 13, as follows: from North Carolina would vote “nay" in the nature of a substitute, as amended.

[No. 218 Leg.] and the Senator from California would

YEAS-65 vote "yea.”

The yeas and nays have been ordered,
and the clerk will call the roll.

Allott
Hart

Moss
On this vote, the Senator from South

Bartlett
Hartke

Mundt
Carolina (Mr. THURMOND] is paired with

The legislative clerk called the roll.

Bayh
Hill

Muskie

Beall
Mr. HUMPHREY. I announce that the

Hruska

Nelson the Senator from New Jersey (Mr. WIL

Bible

Humphrey Prouty
LIAMS).
Senator from Virginia [Mr. BYRD), the

Boggs

Jackson Proxmire [Mr. EAST Brewster

Javits

Randolph If present and voting, the Senator Senator from Mississippi

Burdick

Johnston Ribicoff from South Carolina would vote “nay" LAND), the Senator from North Carolina [Mr. ERVIN), the Senator from Missouri

Byrd, W. Va. Jordan, N.C. Saltonstall and the Senator from New Jersey would

Cannon

Jordan, Idaho Scott [Mr. LONG], the Senator from Louisiana Carlson

Keating

Simpson vote “yea.” [Mr. LONG], the Senator from Washing

Case

Kennedy Smith
Mr. KUCHEL. I announce that the
I announce that the ton (Mr. MAGNUSON), the Senator from

Church
Kuchel

Sparkman Senator from Vermont [Mr. AIKEN] and Wyoming [Mr. McGEE], the Senator from

Cotton

McCarthy Symington Curtis

McClellan the Senator from Utah (Mr. BENNETT] Michigan (Mr. McNAMARA), the Senator

Talmadge Dodd

McGovern Tower are absent on official business. from Rhode Island [Mr. PASTORE), the

Dominick McIntyre Walters The Senator from Illinois (Mr. DIRK- Senator from Virginia [Mr. ROBERTSON],

Douglas
Mechem

Williams, Del.
Edmondson Miller

Yarborough SEN], the Senator from Kentucky [Mr. the Senator from Georgia [Mr. RUS

Ellender Monroney Young, N. Dak. COOPER), the Senator from Arizona (Mr. SELL), the Senator from Florida [Mr.

Fong
Morse

Young, Ohio GOLDWATER), and the Senator from Kan- SMATHERS], the Senator from Mississippi

Gruening Morton sas [Mr. PEARSON] are necessarily ab

NAYS-13 [Mr. STENNIS], the Senator from South sent.

Anderson Hickenlooper Metcalf Carolina (Mr. THURMOND], and the Sen

Clark

Holland If present and voting, the Senator from ator from New Jersey [Mr. WILLIAMS]

Neuberger Fulbright Inouye

Pell Arizona (Mr. GOLDWATER], and the Senaare absent on official business.

Gore

Lausche tor from Kansas [Mr. PEARSON] would

Hayden

Mansfield I further announce that the Senator each vote “nay."

NOT VOTING-22 from California (Mr. ENGLE] is absent The results was announced-yeas, 32,

Aiken

Goldwater Robertson due to illness.

Bennett Long, Mo. Russell nays 46, as follows:

On this vote, the Senator from Mis- Byrd, Va. Long, La. Smathers
[No. 217 Leg.]
sissippi (Mr. EASTLAND) is paired with the Cooper

Magnuson Stennis
Dirksen
McGee

Thurmond
YEAS-32
Senator from California [Mr. ENGLE).

Eastland McNamara Williams, N.J.
Anderson
Gore
Mansfield
If present and voting, the Senator from Engle

Pastore
Bayh
Hayden
McCarthy
Mississippi would vote "yea" and the

Ervin

Pearson Burdick

Hickenlooper McClellan Byrd, W. Va. Humphrey McGovern Senator from California would vote So Mr. GRUENING's amendment to the Carlson Inouye McIntyre “nay.

committee amendment was agreed to. Church Jackson

Metcalf Clark

Mr. GRUENING. Mr. President, I Kennedy Monroney

On this vote, the Senator from LouiFulbright Lausche

Moss

siana (Mr. LONG] is paired with the Sen move to reconsider the vote by which the

amendment to the amendment was when an agreement will be made with followed, I would say that I would expect agreed to. Czechoslovakia.

the Senate to remain in session until 11 Mr. JAVITS. Mr. President, I move to

As you know, Public Law 85–604, approved

or 12 o'clock tonight. If there are lay that motion on the table. August 8, 1958, authorized the Foreign

amendments to be voted on, we are preThe motion to lay on the table was

Claims Settlement Commission to determine
claims of American nationals for the nation-

pared to remain until that time.
agreed to.
alization or other taking of property after

The Senate will recall that some referJanuary 1, 1945, by Czechoslovak authorities. ences have been made in the press by

The Commission concluded its determina- members of the fourth estate to the effect CZECHOSLOVAKIA CLAIMS tion of claims on September 15, 1962, and that we have been conducting bankers' Mr. KEATING. Mr. President, I have

made 2,630 awards aggregating $72,614,634 in hours. I point out that one reason why

principal and $41,030,571 in interest. The introduced and am prepared to press for

we have is that we wanted some of our awards are paid by the Secretary of the Senate approval an amendment express

committees to meet in the morning, beTreasury from a fund of approximately $8.9 ing the sense of the Congress that any million derived from the sale by the United

cause had they tried to meet during the claims agreement with Czechoslovakia States of a Czechoslovak steel mill and related session of the Senate in the afternoon, be submitted to the Senate before comequipment.

objection would have been made. There ing into effect.

The negotiations now in progress with the must be some system of running the I am concerned over the fact that poses of obtaining an additional sum for pay

Czechoslovak Government are for the pur Senate. over $100 million in legitimate U.S.

The best I can say at this time is that ment on the awards which have already been claims for property nationalized by determined by the Foreign Claims Settle

I hope an amendment will be offered and the Czechoslovak Government

that a vote will be taken tonight on it, may ment Commission and for any claims which well be junked in an essentially po have arisen subsequent to August 8, 1958.

and on other amendments. This is not litical agreement with a communist During the negotiations representatives of up to the leadership; it is up to the Senate regime. This is not, as the State Depart

the Department have been doing their ut to decide as to what should be done. ment may wish to suggest, a one-way

most to protect the interests of all Ameri I am happy to note that on this side

can nationals who have valid claims against agreement. It is a final settlement of a

of the aisle only six Members of the SenCzechoslovakia. You will appreciate that complex issue. Very probably also a

ate were absent yesterday, and only we are faced with the choice of accepting sizeable trade deal with the United

seven Members were absent today. This the largest amount we can get in settlement States will be involved in the final set of such claims or of making no agreement.

is an extraordinarily good record, and I tlement, whether formally stated or not, If I can be of further assistance to you

hope to keep it up. because that is the way the Communists in this matter, please do not hesitate to let Mr. KUCHEL. Mr. President, I aplike to operate. me know.

preciate the comments which the disI am also very much concerned over

Sincerely yours,

tinguished majority leader has made. I

FREDERICK G. DUTTON, the manner in which State Department

must say that the record of rollcalls on

Assistant Secretary. officials seem to give one answer to the

this side of the aisle is great-not merely press and another to the Congress. It

OCTOBER 31, 1963.

good, but great. I wish to ask my able lends added weight to the need for a Hon. DEAN RUSK,

friend the Senator from Montana one full Senate review of a Czechoslovak Washington, D.C.

more question. claims settlement.

MY DEAR MR. SECRETARY: In further ref Under the suggestion he has made, Mr. President, I ask unanimous con

erence to the letter of October 29, signed by would he feel inclined to admonish our sent to include all of my remarks in the

Frederick G. Dutton, concerning the settle fellow Senators to remain here, in the RECORD and the text of this correspondment of property claims of American na

probability that other rollcalls may entionals against the Czechoslovakian Governence with the State Department to date.

sue during the coming hours? ment, I am still very deeply concerned over There being no objection, the corre the possible financial terms of the agreement

Mr. MANSFIELD. Only if the Senate spondence was ordered to be printed in

which are not discussed at all. The apparent collectively can give assurance that any the RECORD, as follows:

difference between Mr. Dutton's statement amendment which is taken up will be

that no agreement has been reached and the voted on this evening.
DEPARTMENT OF STATE,

New York Times account of October 30 quot-
Washington, October 29, 1963.

Mr. HUMPHREY. Mr. President, DEAR SENATOR KEATING: Thank you for ing unnamed State Department officials to

there is before the Senate a large stack the effect that essentially agreement was your letter addressed to Secretary Rusk con

of amendments. It is now almost 10 reached in 1956, 1957, and 1960, has not cerning the settlement of property claims of allayed my fears.

minutes to 9. Senators who have any Aemrican nationals against the Czechoslovak

I believe these fears are shared by a num

plans for the evening have undoubtedly Government.

ber of other Senators since a settlement had to cancel them. It seems to me that Since 1945 Czechoslovakia has by a series of

along the lines I mentioned would un in another hour or two, if we wish to laws and decrees nationalized or otherwise doubtedly influence future claims negotia- legislate—and that is our purpose—we taken virtually all private property in that tions. Therefore, I strongly urge that any

can take up some of these amendments. country, including property owned by Amer

agreement reached on these claims be subican nationals. The Department of State

Some of them are not as controversial as mitted to the Senate for ratification before and the American Embassy at Prague have coming into effect. The Claims Convention

others. We can act on them. We can made repeated efforts, beginning in 1945, to with Panama was submitted to the Senate

either act on them or not do anything. obtain compensation for Americans whose and ratified on August 9, 1950, and offers a But I would hope that we might proceed interests have been affected by the nationalvalid precedent for such action.

to take up some of these amendments. ization and expropriation measures. After

I would appreciate having your comments Senators know what Senators have direct negotiations between American claim

on the desirability of Senate ratification of ants and the Czechoslovak Government

amendmerits; and they can be called the Czech claims agreement. failed to result in payment of compensation,

up. Many of them are good amend

Very sincerely yours, that Government agreed to settle outstand

ments. They ought to be debated. The

KENNETH B. KEATING. ing claims by means of an intergovernmen

Senate ought to remain in session. I tal lump-sum settlement. Early in 1949, a

said last night, when I was privileged to Czechoslovak delegation came to Washington to enter into negotiations for such a LEGISLATIVE PROGRAM FOR THE

speak for the leader, that the Senate

would remain in session until late at settlement. Little progress was achieved,

REMAINDER OF THE DAY

night. I see no reason why it should and after several weeks, the negotiations were suspended with the understanding that

Mr. KUCHEL. Mr. President, I should not do so. It is comfortable here. Not they would be resumed later in the year. It

like to inquire, for the information of only that, but we are coming to know was not until November 1955, however, that all Senators, what the distinguished ma each other a little better.

It is very the Czechoslovak Government agreed to re jority leader has in mind for the remain- pleasant to meet our friends under these open negotiations. Representatives of the der of the evening and perhaps for circumstances. two Governments have been meeting since tomorrow.

Mr. KUCHEL. Mr. President, first of that date. While there has been considerable progress to date narrowing the positions

Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, in all, let the RECORD clearly show the staof the two Governments, the negotiations

response to the query of the distinguished tistical information that will be of interhave so far failed to produce an agreement.

acting minority leader, I must say that est not only to my colleagues on this side The Department hopes to conclude the nego it is not a case of what I have in mind. of the aisle, but also to every other Senatiations; however, we are unable to predict If my personal inclinations were to be tor, and to the country as well.

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