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to use only the recommendations that badly needs is a Freedom Academy in a time when I said to Secretary Rusk, were made through the State Depart- which our oversea Government person- “You had better get busy training some ment. It seems to me that that is ar- nel, private citizens, and, on occasion, personnel and leadership and establishrant nonsense, so far as the State De- freedom-supporting people from other ing an overall training organization in partment is concerned. We are trying lands can be trained in depth and in depth or you will have trouble when the to improve the quality of the personnel detail about the whole concept of cold bill comes up on the floor of the Senate.” who will be called upon to handle these war strategy and how to defeat commu- I remember that the Senator from Oreprograms, rather than to diminish it. nism by means short of war.

gon and the Senator from Missouri said We are trying to enhance the prestige Communist Russia operates six well- the same thing. However, the State Deof the State Department, throughout the established training institutes to train partment officials decided to “bull it country, which prestige, frankly, in my its own nationals and many visitors from through”; their attitude was, “Why opinion, could not be any lower than it other lands in the techniques the Com- change? We have spent $100 billion of is now. We must take some steps to munists employ in undermining and in the money of the American people, up establish a Freedom Academy; and if weakening freedom wherever it pre- to now; and surely we can get another there is anything I can do to support the vails. Here in the United States we have $3 or $4 billion at this time.” But, Mr. distinguished Senator from South Dako- totally failed to develop and utilize a President, they cannot do it that easily ta, I shall be glad to do it.

single institute or training facility to any more. Congress is beginning to live Mr. MUNDT. I appreciate the Sena- provide those on our side of this cold up to its responsibility. tor's statement, and I appreciate even

war with equal competence and know Mr. GRUENING. Mr. President, will more his assurances of support, because how and with compensatory training in the Senator from South Dakota yield? I know that his support on any project the best techniques for defeating the Mr. MUNDT. I yield. or program is something of real sub- Communist thrusts against freedom and

Mr. GRUENING. In connection with stance and significance.

in making some positive moves of our the comment about criticism by SecreI recall the Senator's brilliant testi- own.

tary Rusk, he does not realize that before

We have our splendid service acade- the Marshall plan was established, it was mony before the committee. We were dealing with the general subject of im- mies for the Army, the Navy and the understood that the function of the Sen

Air Force. Surely nobody advocates clos- ate in connection with foreign affairs was proving personnel and providing expanded training facilities for those who ing

up the training facilities provided merely to give its advice and consent to

at West Point, Annapolis, and Colorado treaties and to the nominations of Forserve this country overseas.

Springs. We have our War College to eign Service personnel, and nothing else; I share with the Senator from Colo

train and equip our military leaders and but today Congress also has a definite rado the regret that nothing along that to keep them current on the needed responsibility to decide how the foreign line has occurred. It is much more im- know-how. But in our effort to win the aid funds are to be spent. It is both our portant that we convince the State De

cold war, I repeat Mr. President, we have legislative duty and our constitutional partment that it cannot win the cold failed completely to tool up our training obligation to debate these matters, and war without such trained personnel, facilities to meet the modern, peace- the Secretary of State should realize whether we appropriate $3 billion or $30 time challenges of communism.

that. billion, more or less, in the foreign aid

We need such a training facility as Therefore, I think the action taken program for the future.

the Freedom Academy. We have needed yesterday by the Senate, although it was As I said earlier, I speak as one who it for years. We desperately need it now. overdue and was taken belatedly, was has voted for far more foreign aid than we cannot win our cold war against very necessary; and I hope we continue I have opposed, starting with the point communism with dollars alone. This

to watch where such large amounts of TV program. But I shall vote against Senate and this Congress should insist the taxpayers' money go, in connection the current authorization bill, when the that the State Department and the with our foreign aid program. final rollcall vote is taken. I shall vote White House recognize the realities of Mr. DOMINICK. Mr. President, I against it because I know of no other the world in which we live and help de- thoroughly agree with the Senator from way in which I can express an effective velop the training facilities which we so Alaska. and clearcut opposition to continuing a badly need.

Mr. HUMPHREY. Mr. President, will program of spending billions of dollars Mr. DOMINICK. Mr. President, will the Senator yield? overseas for programs which have not the Senator from Alaska yield?

Mr. GRUENING. I yield. been synthesized or targeted together Mr. GRUENING. I am glad to yield

Mr. HUMPHREY. I do not believe or coordinated, and for the administra- to the Senator from Colorado.

the personnel in our Foreign Service are tion of which we have entirely failed to

Mr. DOMINICK. I point out that a untrained. The Foreign Service personmeet the challenge of providing an up- recent item on the news ticker states nel I have met are exceedingly well dated, coordinated, completely adequate that the Secretary of State has severely

trained, better trained than some of training facility so those who serve us criticized the Senate for its action in their critics. I do not believe we shall overseas can be equipped with the proper connection with the foreign aid authori- provide for a better Foreign Service by tools and skills

zation bill, particularly for the restric- establishing a Foreign Service Academy. I may vote in favor of the foreign aid tions it has placed on aid to Indonesia I have long protested, in connection appropriation bill, when it comes before and Yugoslavia.

with the Foreign Service, what we call the Senate, for I am not opposed to the The question is, What will the Senate the Ivy League clique. It seems to me foreign aid concept, if by that time we do to determine the kind of foreign policy it would be a good idea to have in the can get from the State Department in the United States should have? It seems Foreign Service people from all parts of stead of having it sulk in its marble te- to me there could not be a better forum the country who have a genuine apprepee-an understandable and acceptable than this in which to express the irri- ciation of American life and its many king-sized training program. In that tation of the Senate and of the American facets and different cultures. case, I may vote, and may try to influence people in general about giving U.S. aid

For example, I believe that the Amerother Senators on our Appropriations to countries which in many cases are not ican University, in the Nation's Capital, Committee to vote, in favor of appropri- in favor of the United States and are in with its school of international relaate foreign aid funds.

favor of our enemy. I believe this is tions, prepares people very well for the But I shall vote against the pending the best place in which to express our Foreign Service. Likewise, I do not beauthorization bill, because I know of no opinion on that score.

lieve that all the good generals gradother way by which to demonstrate my Mr. MUNDT. Mr. President, I am uated from West Point. Many of them determination not to have the United much interested in that news ticker item, came from VMI or Texas A. & M. or from States continue to throw away such because it is clear evidence that the State colleges with ROTC units. I believe that large sums of the money of the Ameri- Department is now forewarned of our


Georgetown University Foreign can people, particularly when that pro- intent.

Service School is one of the great forgram frequently renders us a dissery

I recall sitting as a member of the eign service schools in the world; and I ice, rather than a service.

Foreign Relations Committee

whether believe that Leland Stanford University Mr. President, let me make my posi- in open session or in executive session graduates some fine people who are tion crystal clear. What this country makes no difference, in this respect-at trained for the field of foreign service.

So I do not believe we do our country ones to whom he refers. However, I do been highly appropriate an hour ago, any service by alleging that those who not think Senators can name very many but not now. work in the State Department are in- responsible Foreign Service officers who The PRESIDING OFFICER. The competent and incapable of doing their have "sold out” this country or have Parliamentarian has advised the Chair jobs. They are extremely competent. been guilty of mismanagement or mis- that the Senator from Alaska has the Some of them may not be as competent conduct or are incompetent.

floor. Unanimous consent is required to as we would like them to be, but cer In the last few years we have done a enable him to yield to the Senator from tainly the same may be said of any of- great deal to elevate the Foreign Service South Dakota. The Senator from Arfice which any one of us manages or of and to improve and raise the standards. kansas has objected to the request by any business in which any of us may be I have a son who hopes to enter the the Senator from Alaska. engaged.

Foreign Service. At this time he is Mr. MUNDT. I should like to know I would support a program for the studying for the Foreign Service; and I by what parliamentary device the Senestablishment of an academy for train- resent having the Foreign Service criti- ator from South Dakota's original uning in Foreign Service. I have said so cized in such fashion. I do not believe derstanding with the Senator from Alasmany times. But I do not believe it that is the way to recruit good people for ka has been vitiated. would answer all our problems—not by the Foreign Service. I do not want my The PRESIDING OFFICER. The a long shot.

son to read in the

in the CONGRESSIONAL Parliamentarian has advised the Chair Furthermore, I do not believe that in RECORD, charges that the Foreign Service that the Senator from Alaska reasserted connection with requesting the estab is incompetent and wastes millions of his right to the floor when the Senator lishment of an academy for training in dollars.

from South Dakota had concluded his Foreign Service,

Service, Senators need to I demand a bill of particulars. When remarks. He now has the floor. Unani"downgrade” those who are now in the the Senator can show me the names of mous consent is required for the SenaForeign Service. There are many good the individuals, and show me the people tor from Alaska to yield to any other people in our Foreign Service, and I do who have been guilty of the colossal Senator the privilege of the floor. not believe it is a good idea to spread waste charged because they were incom Mr. GRUENING. Mr. President, the across the world statements to the ef- petent or stupid or untrained, I shall be pending business before the Senate is my fect that the State Department wastes willing to buy the argument. Until then amendment No. 232. billions of dollars because of incompe- I resent it. I think it is an unfair argu Mr. MORSE. Mr. President, will the tent personnel. ment.

Senator yield? In the Foreign Service there are men

Mr. GRUENING. I am happy to yield. who have given their lives and also the

Mr. MORSE. I assure the Senator lives of their families to their country. AMENDMENT OF FOREIGN ASSIST- from South Dakota that later he will In fact, when the Government hires a


have any time he desires. Foreign Service officer, it generally gets

The Senate resumed the consideration

Mr. MUNDT. I appreciate that very two for one both the Foreign Service

of the bill (H.R. 7885) to amend further much. I merely wished to say to my officer and his wife; and the wives of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961, as

friend, the Senator from Minnesota, that our Foreign Service officers lead volunamended, and for other purposes.

I welcome him in the ranks of those who tary organizations and do excellent jobs in carrying the philosophy of this coun.

Mr. GRUENING. Mr. President, I support the Freedom Academy approach, call up my amendment No. 232.

even though he damned it with faint try to many parts of the world.

The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. NEL- praise, and even though understandably I know what is happening to the for

SON in the chair). The amendment of he opposes some of the arguments which eign aid authorization bill. We can cut it or we can defeat it; and apparently and stated, and

is now pending before the
the Senator from Alaska has been offered I have presented.

I regret that the Senator from Minthere is among the Members of this body Senate.

nesota was not present during the ena passion to do something to the foreign

Mr. MUNDT. Mr. President, I think tire discourse I made on the subject. aid authorization bill to change it drasI still have the floor.

Quite obviously he has based some of tically. Some think the foreign aid pro

The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the his observations on a misapprehension. gram should not even be permitted to

Senator from Alaska yield further to the First, I have never said that the State continue. Senator from South Dakota?

Department people are not trained. Be that as it may, Mr. President, I do

Mr. GRUENING. Mr. President, I am They are not trained in the appropriate not believe that in the process of amend

glad to yield to the Senator from South tactics and techniques of the cold war. ing the bill we are required to "run Dakota. I hope his remarks will be brief.

Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, a down” the Foreign Service public seryants. If I were a Foreign Service officer, parliamentary inquiry.

Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, a parliamentary inquiry.

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The I would deeply resent such an attack.

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator will state it.
Some of the Foreign Service officers go
Senator will state it.

Mr. FULBRIGHT. Who has the floor? to parts of the world where a Senator

Mr. FULBRIGHT. Who has the floor?

Mr. MUNDT. I think the Senator would not be willing to go, even if he

from South Dakota has the floor. The

PRESIDING were paid 10 times his present salary.


Mr. GRUENING. The Senator from The Foreign Service officers go to their Senator from Alaska has the floor.

Alaska has not yielded the floor. posts like soldiers; and I am not going

Mr. FULBRIGHT. By what right does

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The to remain silent when attempts are made the Senator yield?

Chair recognizes the Senator from to rip the Foreign Service to pieces to

Mr. GRUENING. By unanimous con- Alaska. downgrade and attack and criticize it sent I yielded to the Senator from South

Mr. MUNDT. I will be back. unfairly Dakota.

Mr. GRUENING. Mr. President, a I want Senators who criticize it to


Is there parliamentary inquiry. name the Foreign Service officer who is

objection to the Senator from Alaska The PRESIDING OFFICER. The charged with wasting money. I ask the yielding further to the Senator from

yielding further to the Senator from Senator will state it. Senator from South Dakota to give me South Dakota?

Mr. GRUENING. Is there a rule that a bill of particulars. What Foreign Mr. FULBRIGHT. I object.

prohibits a Senator from yielding the Service officer is wasting money? Is the Mr. MUNDT. Mr. President, the ob- floor to another Senator without his givSenator from South Dakota talking jection comes about an hour too late.

jection comes about an hour too late. ing up his right to the floor? about Secretary of State Acheson or By unanimous consent the Senate has The PRESIDING OFFICER. Secretary of State Dulles or Secretary of already agreed that the Senator from

already agreed that the Senator from Senator calls for the regular order, the State Herter or Secretary of State Rusk? Alaska would yield to me so that I could Senator may yield only for a question. About whom is the Senator from South present my position, and after I had con Mr. GRUENING. I am glad to yield Dakota talking? What Foreign Service cluded, the floor was to revert to the to the Senator from Oregon for a quesofficer does he mean? Senator from Alaska. I have not con

tion. If a Senator is going to criticize, in cluded because I wish to respond to the Mr. MORSE. Mr. President, would the stead of criticizing a whole class of Goy Senator from Minnesota. The objection Senator be willing to yield the floor temernment employees, he should name the of the Senator frum Arkansas would have porarily, so that I can see if I can obtain

If a

the floor in my own right to put into the years it is costing us $1.25 million, which The UPI ticker item reads as follows: RECORD some information that the State is the difference between no payment on

Secretary of State Dean Rusk tore into Department has just sent me, and make the part of Nasser and what we have to Congress today for trying to alter the course a brief comment on it?

pay. So in the first 10 years, even be- of the administration's foreign policy. Mr. GRUENING. I would, with the fore he starts repaying the loan, the In unusually blunt terms, he said “Conunderstanding that objection will not be Treasury will be out $12.5 million.

gress is trying to 'legislate foreign policy,'" raised and that, as a result of my cour Appreciation of the fact that that pro

and said the President will get the blame if

things go wrong. tesy in yielding to the Senator from cedure is all wrong and is an unsound

Rusk told a news conference that he is South Dakota, I would not lose my right financial practice is reflected in a couple “very much disturbed * * * very much conto the floor.

of rather feeble efforts on the part of cerned” about what he said was a tendency Mr. MORSE. I did not ask for that. the committee to change the situation. of Congress “to try to build into law attiI think we can do business in a somewhat The House has provided in section 105 tudes on foreign aid." He said the lawdifferent way. I think the Senator can that in no event henceforth, after the makers are not held to blame if foreign obtain the floor. I suggest that we try bill is enacted, shall the loan be at less policy goes sour and “I hope very much conit and see how it works.

than 2 percent per annum. The Senate

The Senate gress will hold its hand.” The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the committee did not go quite so far. The tempts during current debate in the legis

Rusk particularly criticized Senate atSenator from Alaska ask unanimous Senate version is a kind of fusion of the lation, to write restrictions into the pendconsent that he may yield the floor? two methods. The Senate committee ing foreign aid bill to limit or deny assist

Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, he amendment provides that for the first ance to countries such as Yugoslavia, Egypt, need not ask unanimous consent to yield 5 years the rate shall be three-quarters and Indonesia. the floor.

of 1 percent, and then annually there Referring to moves in the Senate to cut Mr. GRUENING. Mr. President, I ask after it shall be 2 percent. I argue that foreign aid outlays drastically, Rusk said, unanimous consent that I may yield to that does not meet the situation at all.

“This is no time to quit. There is too much

unfinished business ahead of us." the Senator from Oregon with the under- We may not be going into the hole quite standing that I do not lose my right to as deep, but we are still going into the

I shall now read what the Secretary of the floor.

hole. I think it is entirely proper that State actually said, so that the Senate Mr. FULBRIGHT. I object.

the amendment, which merely provides will have not only statements out of conMr. GRUENING. Objection is heard.

Objection is heard. that we shall exact the going rate, what- text but also statements in full context. Mr. President, my amendment which ever that rate may be at the time the The first part of the press conference is cosponsored by the Senator from Wyo- Treasury Department can inform us did not deal with foreign aid, but dealt ming [Mr. SIMPSON), the Senator from whether it be 334 percent or 4 percent, with the wheat negotiations. Then the North Carolina [Mr. ERVIN], the Senator plus one-quarter of 1 percent as a carry- Secretary was asked: from Utah (Mr. Moss), the Senator from ing charge-henceforth those loans will Mr. Secretary, could you give us your apNevada [Mr. CANNON], the Senator from be valid loans and not at usurious rates praisal of the situation now in Vietnam? Colorado [Mr. DOMINICK), the Senator of interest.

The Secretary discussed the Vietnam from Oregon [Mr. MORSE), the Senator That is exactly what it costs the matter. After he finished discussing the from Texas (Mr. YARBOROUGH), the Sen- American people. That would not only Vietnam situation, the following occurred ator from Nevada [Mr. BIBLE], and the be sound, but it would save the Treas

in the press conference: Senator from Florida (Mr. SMATHERS], ury millions of dollars in the course of is designed to make a realistic loan of the next few years.

Question. Could you give us your thoughts the so-called development loans.

The argument will be made that some

on the views in the Senate to restrict aid to

Yugoslavia, Egypt, and Indonesia? Two or three years ago objection was countries are so poor and conditions are Answer. Well, I must say that I am very raised and heard in Congress that we so bad that they cannot afford to pay much concerned about the tendency in the were making grants recklessly, wildly 4 percent. In those situations we should Congress to legislate foreign policy as it might and extravagantly. It was argued that frankly decide whether or not a grant is apply to specific situations or specific counwe should have loans instead, the justifiable. I would rather have a grant tries. The legislative cycle moves a year at a thought being that people would then at any time than a phony loan which

time. The world moves very fast. It is not

possible for the Congress to anticipate in adhave a sense of responsibility for paying is both a grant and a loan. In the case of the powerplant there was no excuse be in any given situation, so I am very much

vance what the circumstances are going to the loans. Actually the loans turned out to be a whatsoever for making that kind of loan.

concerned about the tendency to try to build kind of fraud on the American people. It should have been a loan from the Ex into law attitudes in the use of our aid proWhat were the terms of those loans? port-Import Bank or the World Develop gram, for example, with regard to particular Usually 10 years with no payment of ment Bank on a sound business basis. countries. either principal or sometimes of interest, Mr. President, I ask for the yeas and

These are responsibilities carried by the

President of the United States. They are and then for the balance of the loan nays on the amendment.

very heavy responsibilities. The President is three-quarters of 1 percent.

The yeas and nays were ordered.

the one whom the country will hold responNo such loans were ever known on such Mr. MORSE. Mr. President, earlier sible if things go wrong. So I am very much a scale before. In the course of that today I expressed concern about the concerned about the loss of flexibility, the period of generosity we loaned $1,300 ticker tape report of the press conference loss of any ability to move to protect and million under the development loan pro- of the Secretary of State, and said I forward the interests of the United States

wherever they might be engaged anywhere in gram, the cost of which-even assuming would discuss it later.

the world. So I would hope very much that that the loan would be repaid, which is I have received a transcript of the the Congress would withhold its hand and not a certainty—was $870 million in con- Secretary of State's press conference, not try to legislate in detail about the applicealed grants.

accompanied by a letter from a very able cation of an aid program to a particular I illustrate what I am speaking about State Department representative of country. by stating a specific example. I was in whom we are all fond, the liaison officer

Question. Mr. Secretary, on the larger view Cairo last February. While I was there, of the Secretary with the Congress, Mr.

of the foreign aid situation, the Congress

is in the process of tearing it to shreds; and I was present at the signing by the Amer- Dutton, in which he says:

this is only the authorization. The news is ican Ambassador of a $30 million loan

I understand you are interested in Secre- going to be a lot worse when you get to to Mr. Nasser to build a powerplant in tary Rusk's comments at his press conference appropriations; this is quite clear. west Cairo. A powerplant is a money this morning in relation to the foreign aid Now how do you respond to this? You are making enterprise. From the time it bill pending before the Senate. A copy of getting a message, at least they say on the starts generating and delivering its pow the first 10 pages of the transcript is at Hill, which tells you, the administration, er the dictator can charge his consum

tached. It contains the remarks relevant to the Congress is fed up with foreign aid, as ers—his electricity users—any rate that foreign aid. The rest of the transcript will it is now being operated.

be sent to you as soon as it is mimeographed. What do you propose to do about it? he wishes. Yet the loan provides that

Answer. Well, we are in daily, sometimes

I shall read what the ticker said. Then hourly, contact with the Congress about this for 10 years he shall make no payment whatsoever. Meanwhile we are borrow- I shall read what the Secretary of State matter. I must say that I don't understand ing money from the American people at said at the press conference. Then I the tendency to cut back on our foreign aid about 4 percent, so that in each of those shall make comments on the two.

program as deeply as is now being discussed

in the Congress. The large and dangerous little annoyed because his executive foreign policy, worldwide, in the last 20 questions are still in front of us, whether

functions must be carried out within the years. Twenty years ago we were never it is Berlin, or Cuba, or Laos, or Vietnam, or framework of our constitutional checks. in such a complex and complicated inwhatever it may be. There is no detente in the sense that there I have felt this in connection with his ternational situation as we are now in.

When billions of dollars of the Ameris a general easing of relations between the testimony; I have felt it in connection free world and the Communist world. There with his briefing before the Foreign Re- ican taxpayers' money are thrown have been some limited and specific agree- lations Committee; and I feel it in con- around, I say, most respectfully, to those ments, some of them have been important, nection with the statement he made to in Congress that they cannot escape such as the nuclear test ban treaty: There the press this morning in his press their responsibility to evaluate foreign have been explorations of the possibilities of conference.

policy in respect to their duty to deteragreements on other subjects. But this is no time to quit. There is too

It might be much easier for the execu- mine how much money to allow for the much unfinished business ahead of us. The tive branch of Government to proceed various foreign policy proposals. United States has almost a million men outunchecked in the field of foreign policy

Mr. FULBRIGHT. Mr. President, will side of the continental limits of the United if it did not have to deal with Congress. the Senator yield? States, ashore and afloat. We must support We are an annoying element, to be sure.

Mr. MORSE. I yield. those men. They are out to do a job for the It happens to be our duty to be annoy

Mr. FULBRIGHT. Do I correctly free world. And I think they are entitled

ing if we think the executive branch is understand that the Senator is stating to have us support them by trying to get following a policy that is not in the best that the Secretary of State has no the job done without committing them to combat, if possible.

interest of the country. We have the re- respect for the principle of checks and Now we spend gladly—we spend gladly, sponsibility of viewing and reviewing balances? about $50 billion a year in our defense budg- policies of any executive, at any time, in

Mr. MORSE. I have not said that at et. I don't see why we can't spend 10 per- connection with the question of whether all. Quite to the contrary, I said that cent of that, if necessary, to get the job done or not there is a wise expenditure of I do not think the Secretary of State without war, if possible. So I am very much the American taxpayers' dollars and an shares the point of view of the Senator concerned about the general attitude that

expenditure of the American taxpayers' from Oregon as to how far the system somehow we can relax, we can cut back on

dollars for purposes that can be justi- of checks and balances goes in respect our foreign aid, we can become indifferent to what is happening in other parts of the fied.

to congressional authority in the field of world. The world is not in that shape at

At that point the Secretary of State foreign policy. the present time, and effort is still crucial has his greatest difficulty in adjusting

Mr. FULBRIGHT. Will the Senator to getting the great job done on behalf of to the American system of checks and yield further? freedom.

balances, because there is a great tenden Mr. MORSE. Certainly. The press conference then turned to cy on the part of members of the execu Mr. FULBRIGHT. I thoroughly disother subjects. That was all that was tive branch of Government to take the agree with what the Senator says. I said in the press conference in respect to position that it can have any foreign pol- think this Secretary of State has been the foreign aid bill.

icy it desires, and that we should not more than responsive to the views of the Although I disagree with some of the annoy or restrict them or ask too many committee, certainly, and has been more points of view of the Secretary, about questions, at least in detail, and that we than willing to come at any time to which I shall comment momentarily, and should not suggest that the public in- consult with the committee. When the although I disagree with the conclusions terest calls for the placing of restric- Senate begins to bring into a foreign he has reached in connection with for- tions upon foreign policy.

aid bill measures to regulate in an ireign aid, he expressed nothing at the The interesting thing about the sepa- relevant field, such as the fishing induspress conference this morning that he ration of powers doctrine is that the try, or the Israel security problems, and has not expressed for some time. That checking powers of Congress are limited, to legislate on specific problems, it is has been his position right along, and I also. We cannot write foreign policy, in going quite beyond the normal responsirespect him for stating it. I do not feel the sense that we cannot diplomatically bilities of a legislative body and is usurpthat he "tore into Congress.”

negotiate. We cannot make treaties; we ing the executive functions, rather than This great Secretary of State has a can only approve them. We cannot en the reverse. difference in point of view from those of

ter into executive agreements. But we Mr. MORSE. I wish to reply, goodus who do not believe the foreign aid bill can follow a good many checks, if execu- naturedly and respectfully, that I do not will accomplish many of the desired pur- tive agreements are entered into that we know with whom the Senator from Arposes and who believe that the foreign do not think are in the best interest of kansas disagrees. I doubt, if he reads aid bill proposes to continue waste, ex

the public, by exercising our power over the transcript of what I said, that he travagance and inefficiency, and may the purse. Executive agreements become disagrees with the Senator from Oregon. promote corruption in some parts of the empty agreements unless they can be im- If he does, that is all right with me. I world. plemented.

only repeat my thesis that, in my judgWe have known that this has been the I feel, and have felt, that way; and my ment, in his press conference this mornpoint of view of the Secretary of State view has not been changed by the pressing the Secretary of State did not give for some time. He presented his point conference of the Secretary this morn- the same weight to our system of checks of view at the press conference with ing. He has merely set forth the dif- and balances as does the Senator from great dignity, great sincerity, great dedi- ferences between the Secretary and cer- Oregon in regard to the authority and cation to his task as he sees his obliga- tain Members of Congress. He does not duty of the Congress in respect to aptions.

have a comprehension of what our duty propriation of money for the implemenAlthough I am, as the Secretary knows, is as Senators with respect to the grant- tation of foreign policy proposals of any in great disagreement with him in regard ing of authority to implement a foreign administration. to the position of the State Department policy function. It boils down to the fact When the administration sends to and the White House on certain phases that the administration has sent to Con- Congress a foreign aid bill, asking for of foreign policy, I have nothing but high gress a bill for foreign aid and asks the expenditure of hundreds of millions respect for the Secretary of State's sery money for a great variety of purposes. of dollars, Congress has the duty of lookice and for the answers he gave to the We say, "We will take a look at your pur- ing into how the money is to be spent press this morning in his typically objec- poses. We are going to examine your in relation to foreign aid programs. The tive and fair manner, though I disagree purposes in detail and in depth, and we Secretary said: with the conclusions in some of his are not going to grant you the money

Well, I must state that I am very much statements.

unless we think your purposes are in the concerned about the tendency in the ConI shall express myself now on some public interest.”

gress to legislate foreign policy as it might of the disagreements. The Secretary of That is the check. To say that the apply to specific situations or specific counState has great responsibilities. He has Congress of the United States has no au

tries. The legislative cycle moves a year at obligations to the President. A multi- thority in the field of foreign relations is a time. The world moves very fast. It is

not possible for the Congress to anticipate tude of problems confronts the United quite unrealistic.

in advance what the circumstances are goStates in the field of foreign policy. The As the Senator from Alaska said ear

ing to be in any given situation, so I am Secretary has a tendency to become a lier, great changes have taken place in very much concerned about the tendency to

try to build into law attitudes in the use tary of State than Secretary Rusk. He terpretation that the Secretary of State of our aid program, for example, with regard continued:

thinks we are quitting foreign aid. We to particular countries

I must say that I don't understand the are not quitting foreign aid. Congress He must face the fact that we have tendency to cut back on our foreign aid is trying to strengthen foreign aid. We the duty of seeing what kind of attitude program as deeply as is now being discussed disagree on how best to strengthen it. the administration seeks to build in our

in the Congress. The large and dangerous However, we have a duty to the taxpayrelations with other countries. So when questions are still in front of us, whether it

ers of the country to see that the money the Secretary says, “These are responsiis Berlin, or Cuba, or Laos, or Vietnam, or

is spent in a manner as to give them their whatever it may be. bilities carried by the President, I quite

money's worth, which they are not now agree, but the President of the United I consider that a complete

getting. They deserve a foreign aid bill States is not free to adopt any policy he sequitur.

sequitur. What has that to do with that will strengthen our spending in the desires, without any check, under the whether or not the Senate decides that world and not weaken it. doctrine of separation of powers. If it is in the best interets of this country

The Secretary continued: that were done, there would be a dicta- to adopt the amendments that have been

There is too much unfinished business torship. Our Constitutional Fathers adopted, such as the Humphrey amend- ahead of us. The United States has almost were careful to see that there was not ment? I helped the Senator from Min

a million men outside of the continental vested in a President of the United States nesota to draft it. It was added to the limits of the United States, ashore and afloat. dictatorial power. I know of no Presi- Mansfield amendment, which was final. We must support those men. dent, including President Kennedy, who ly adopted. It was a good amendment.

Who says we do not want to? Who would want to exercise such power, or Obviously, the Secretary of State does

says that we are not? I say again, as I any Secretary of State, including Secre- not like it. He has respectfully and said earlier in the debate, that these are tary Rusk. But when the Secretary says with dignity told us that, as he has a

the men who are saying the areas of the the President is the one the country will right to do.

world which are endangered, and not the hold responsible if things go wrong, I That in no way should justify subject military personnel of the indigenous poppoint out that he is one whom the people ing Congress to criticism, because we do ulations of those areas of the world. If will hold responsible. But I say to Mem- not agree with the Secretary of State. anyone thinks that the South Korean bers of Congress that the people will not The authority vests in Congress, and the Army is saving South Korea, that is fail to hold them responsible for their duty vests in Congress—I wish to stress utter nonsense. South Korea is being mistakes.

both the authority and the duty—to ex- saved by some 50,000 boys in uniform, Having entered this new era of foreign ercise our judgment as to the amount whom we have stationed there, by the relations which the Senator from Alaska our Government should spend for these 7th Fleet, and by the availability of the discussed earlier today, not one of us, in projects.

U.S. Air Force. That is what is saving either the legislative branch or the exec As I said earlier, I believe the Secre- South Korea. utive branch, can escape being held re- tary of State would like it better if he

The statement of the Secretary of sponsible if the American foreign policy were given a free hand. He has not been State will be interpreted by some as goes wrong. We should not be allowed given it, and he should not be given it. meaning that we must continue to give to escape it, either.

The Secretary continued:

all the aid that we have been giving to The Secretary of State continued:

There is no detente in the sense that there South Korea, because if we do not do so, So, I am very much concerned about the is a general easing of relations between the

we will not support the American boys loss of flexibility, the loss of any ability to free world and the Communist world. There

It is move to protect and forward the interests have been some limited and specific agree- overseas. That does not follow. of the United States wherever they might ke ments, some of them have been important, an illogical conclusion to draw. engaged anywhere in the world. So I would such as the nuclear test ban treaty. There The Secretary then states: hope very much that the Congress would have been explorations of the possibilities

We must support those men. They are withhold its hand and not try to legislate in of agreements on other subjects.

out to do a job for the free world. And I detail about the application of an aid pro But this is no time to quit.

think they are entitled to have us support gram to a particular country.

That is an interesting implication. I them by trying to get the job done without Note that the Secretary wants to have do not believe that it is meant or intend- committing them to combat, if possible. that put on the basis of leaving more ed in any literal sense that one should I say to the Secretary of State: "What flexibility. What does he mean by "flex say it is subject to the interpretation has that to do with our wasting hundreds ibility"? If he means following a course that we are proposing to quit foreign aid. of millions of dollars of foreign aid of action which we are satisfied is not The Secretary of State knows that. If money?" The trouble is that my good in the public interest, now is the time we end with a foreign aid bill anywhere friend the Secretary of State has been for us to put restrictions in the bill. above $3 billion, we shall have made a reluctant to face what is the unanswerThat is what we have been doing. That vast outlay for foreign aid. If we cut able fact; namely, that if we are to have is completely in keeping with our au the cloth of the foreign aid program to a strong foreign aid program, we must thority to check any administration with a $3 billion piece, thereby eliminating a reform the program. Some of us have respect to the expenditure of funds for great many countries that ought to be been telling him that for many months. implementing any foreign policy with eliminated from the foreign aid pro- Congress has suggested that there be which we find ourselves in disagreement. gram, it will still be a huge amount. some consultations to revamp the foreign

The Secretary was asked the ques Those countries fall into two main aid bill. We have been taking that potion:

classifications-first, those that are able sition for months. We have been saying Question. Mr. Secretary, on the larger view to support themselves. They should not the same thing that the committee says of the foreign aid situation, the Congress, is receive funds. Second, there are coun- in the report.

in the report. The only difference bein the process of tearing it to shreds; and tries in which we are spending money in tween those of us who oppose the bill and this is only the authorization. The news is a completely wasteful way. It would the majority of the committee is that going to be a lot worse when you get to be impossible to spend enough money to the opponents think we ought to do it appropriations; this is quite clear.

be of any assistance to them. They are now. We think this is the time to do it. Now how do you respond to this? You are getting a message, at least they say on complete sinkholes. We shall never be Of course, if the Secretary of State's the Hill, which tells you, the administra- able to fill up those sinkholes; and we statement is subject to the interpretation, the Congress is fed up with foreign must recognize that we cannot spend tion—I do not believe it would be a paraid, as it is now being operated.

enough foreign aid money to be of any ticularly fair interpretation, although he What do you propose to do about it? material assistance in certain areas of should amplify the statement that he

Answer. Well, we are in daily, sometimes the world in which we are now sinking ought to have it as is, that does not offer hourly, contact with the Congress about this a great amount of Federal money. much hope for implementing the commatter.

I know how things happen in press mittee's recommendation for the imHe certainly has. I do not know how conferences. The use of the word "quit”

conferences. The use of the word "quit” provement of foreign aid. If we are to we could have a more cooperative Secre- might cause some to seek to give the in reform foreign aid, it must be done in

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