66 [SENATE. operation, is lost at once. To pay at the day, the mer- whole of that interest, its fates and its fortunes are so linkchant must depend upon being paid at the day. One ed together, that a great disaster in any part of the combeneficial effect of a bankrupt law is its operation as a mercial world causes itself to be felt, more or less, in every powerful stimulus to this punctuality. A bankrupt law other. No great mercantile house can fall alone; it is makes the failure of punctuality the evidence of bank- sure to bring down others along with it; often many ruptcy; puts the delinquent debtor in the power of the others; always to inflict a wide spreading calamity. It is creditor; exposes him to the danger of being broken up, said that not more than one in ten succeeds of those who and to having the control of his property at once taken commit themselves to the chances of these pursuits; that, from him. So long, therefore, as he can be punctual, he of this tenth, not more than one-tenth meets with eminent will be punctual; he finds every thing with regard to success; and that of these few, not a few, at one period himself and his prospects to depend on it; that it is not or another of their course, have failed, afterwards have enough for him to be solvent; that he must be punctual started anew, and to better fortunes. Is it not due to those as well as solvent. The sense of individual interest, it is who engage in a business so perilous to themselves, but true, ought to induce the merchant to this punctuality, so beneficial to their country, to say to them, "If you are and it has this effect to a considerable extent; but" overtaken by misfortune; if, by the course of accidents, it is mostly in particular places where custom supplies" you are involved in ruinous and irreparable losses, misthe place in this respect, and does the office of a Bank"fortune shall not be visited upon you as a crime; it shall rupt Law, by making the failure of punctuality the failure "not strike you dead to this world, by extinguishing in of standing and credit. But even there it would be ad- "your breast every hope of ever emerging from your cavantageous to superadd to the custom the stimulus of a "lamities. No; but, upon a bona fide surrender of all Bankrupt Law; in all other places it would give a very your estate and effects, to be impartially distributed essential support to credit. among all your creditors, you shall be relieved from the Credit, while it is the great instrument of commercial" load of your debts, which, but for that relief, would operations, is, as I stated, a great source of the hazards" press you to the earth and keep you there forever. connected with the business of commerce. Now, a Bank-" You shall be restored to yourself and to your country. rupt Law diminishes these hazards, not by diminishing the "You shall have opened to you again a scope for your number of failures, but by diminishing their calamitous" industry and skill, your enterprise and talents; and God effects. The deficiencies of the bankrupt estate become less, it makes greater dividends, and these are made impartially among all the creditors. When the debtor fails, the creditor has the immediate control of all his estate and effects, and of all he may have alienated in contemplation of his bankruptcy, in order to avoid an impartial distribution of all his estate and effects. But, It is the nature of man, especially in the young, to count without a Bankrupt Law, when a debtor fails, he retains upon the favors of fortune, and to underrate the chances the possession of his property, and appropriates it as he of miscarriage. Otherwise, the terrible consequences of pleases; or, if he surrenders it, he surrenders on what Bankruptcy, as they exist in this country, and under the terms he pleases. This right to control and appropriate laws of this country, would intimidate, discourage, and his property, enables him to acquire a false and fictitious deter many from embarking in commerce, on this sea of credit, to stave off the period of his failure far beyond the uncertainties, this Eubean tide, this Euripus, on which period at which his insolvency commences, until nothing so many are stranded, or overwhelmed and lost; and no remains for the general creditor, after satisfying the claims doubt they have that effect to a considerable extent. As of those very persons who have given him this false and the States cannot, and the United States will not, relieve fictitious credit, and who have given it to him on the ex-him, the merchant, become Bankrupt, must thenceforth press condition of having those claims satisfied in the event of his failure. The insolvent debtor, though conscious of his insolvency, will still struggle to retrieve his affairs, will resort to every means in his power to sustain his credit for this purpose, will pledge himself to indemnify those who sustain him, and will and must redeem his pledge. This is the necessary course of things without a Bankrupt Law. Thus it happens, invariably, that a failure produces to the general creditor a total loss of his debt. A Bankrupt Law would ensure to him, in the first place, more property to be divided, and then would ensure to him his full ratable dividend, to be received by him in all cases. "bless your renewed endeavors with better fortunes." A Bankrupt Law, in effect, holds this language to those who are engaged in this business, perilous to themselves, while it is so useful to their country. Who can doubt but it would encourage to it, would animate in it, would augment its general prosperity? hold even his personal liberty at the will of his creditors; he has no property, he can acquire none; he lives, and can live, but from hand to mouth; and even the bread that is passing to his mouth may be intercepted, may be wrested from the hand that bears it; (the creditor may do this, if he pleases, and he may please to do it ;) he can do nothing, and, if he could, he has no motive to exertion: for, if he could acquire property, which he cannot, he acquires it for another, not for himself; he is condemned to be a drone in community, useless to himself, useless to the community in which he lives; the poorest man in society, not in debt, is a prince, compared to him: for that man has hopes, and may rise to a happier state; not so If we consider the hazards inseparable from this branch the Bankrupt, he is doomed to a life of despair. If this of industry, we shall see the importance of every practi.is to be his final destiny, if the law so ordains it to be, if cable diminution of those hazards; and, if we consider the importance of the industry itself to the country, we shall be sensible that every practicable encouragement is due to it. That branch of industry, taken as a whole, is an infinite-yes, literally, an infinite source of national wealth. This is attested by the history of all commercial nations. But, though, as a whole, it is so valuable to the country, yet, to the individuals concerned in it, the hazards are very great. Much depends on the man; yet, so much more on others, and on the course of accidents, that no human prudence is sufficient to ensure the certainty of success, nor to secure against a liability to a failure. Credit and confidence are so far and widely diffused, such a murual dependence and chain of connexion runs through the his country has determined, ultimately determined, not to provide any mode of relief for him, he has no motive even to wish to live; death would be desirable to him, as a refuge from the wretchedness of that despair. It is melancholy to reflect how many of our fellow-citizens are in this unhappy predicament; and how rapidly their numbers are multiplying upon us; citizens lost to themselves, lost, to their country. Every merchant of industry and enterprise, of talent and skill, is a blessing to the country, and is so considered, while he goes on prospering and to prosper; such and so are considered the great body of our merchants. Now, the difference between those who have failed, and those who have not failed, is a difference in the fortunes of their business, not in their merits, as men. These, until they failed, equally with the others, were blessings; and, if relieved, would again become blessings. Their labor, their skill, their industry, and enterprise, would again be added to the common stock of the country, and would so much augment its mercantile force and effect; besides, such relief to them, individually, would be the greatest of all possible favors. [JAN. 30, 1827. is discharged by the first operation of the law, is not the fault of the law; it is the necessary consequence of that state in which the law finds a commercial community. This multitude make no dividends, because they have made them; their creditors have already got them, some by means of preferences, some by means of legal diligence, and some by other means; they have become stripped bare to the world, and their boxes must be empty: still they are oppressed with a load of debt, and ought to be relieved. Those who became Bankrupt after the law was made, and under the law, did make dividends, and will, under this, make dividends. At least, I will affirm, that such was the fact in that part of the country in which I was conversant with the operation of the former law. Enough, then, I hope and trust, has been said, to show that a Bankrupt law would be beneficial to the creditor, would be beneficial to the debtor, would be beneficial to the great interest of commerce; and, thereby, would be beneficial to the country at large. Let it not be forgotten, but borne in mind, what I stated in the outset, that a Bankrupt law is, essentially, a commercial regulation; and that its utility is to be tested by its effect on that interest. But it has been said, that the principle of the Bankrupt It is true there were some fraudulent escapes under that law violates the principle of natural justice; that the ob-law; but that was owing to the defective organization of ligation of the debtor to pay according to the terms of his the system, and to its more defective administration, evils contract, is founded in that justice; and that the Bank which have been sedulously, and, I think, effectually, rupt law releases him from that obligation. This objec-guarded against in this system. All those passes are now tion is founded in a total mistake of the nature of a Bank- closed, through which the fraudulent Bankrupt then rupt law. That law is a remedial process, provided for made his escape from the obligation of his debts. As to the creditor, and for his interest; and which it is option- the body of those who, after the law, and under the law, al with him to apply or not, according to his own view of became Bankrupt, I repeat, that they did make divihis own interest; and, if he does not apply it, the debt- dends; that most of them, after their discharges, returnor's obligation remains untouched. If he avails himself ed to their business; with various fortunes, of course, but of the remedy, he must take it as it is given to him; not some of them with great success-illustrating the happy for his exclusive benefit, but for the common benefit of effects of a Bankrupt law. I could refer to a number of all the creditors, and with the right of the debtor in cer- instances, and I beg leave to refer to one, and then I will tain cases to be discharged from all his debts. Surely not longer trespass on the attention of the Senate. I menthere is no injustice in all this; it is not unjust that the tion this one, because the facts are known to some gendebtor's property should be impartially distributed among tlemen on this floor; it appears to me to speak volumes all his creditors; if he is stripped of all his property by in favor of such a law. A merchant of capital in Boston, his creditors, and, thereby, deprived of all means of ac- engaged in foreign commerce, by a sudden turn of affairs quiring property, it is not unjust that he should be ac- in Europe, became Bankrupt, and was discharged, under quitted of all his responsibilities to them. At least, it the former Bankrupt law. His estate paid from 50 to 75 does not lie in the creditor's mouth to say it is unjust: for per centum of his debts. He returned to his business, and it is a voluntary proceeding on his part. was again successful; the first property he acquired, and which he could spare from his capital in trade, he applied to the liquidation of the balances due his former creditors; these balances, and the interest of these balances, he paid up fully; he went on acquiring, and when he died, not many years since, left to his widow a splendid establishment, with ample fortune to support it; which she now enjoys, displaying, as I am told, the virtues which do honor to her prosperous fortune; he left other legacies, and, besides, bequeathed to public charities upwards of an hundred thousand dollars. Now, but for the benign operation of that law, having failed, he must have lived out the residue of his life in penury, and have died a panper; his widow he would have left the heir only to his misfortunes, and but as the surviving partner of their common calamities. It has been said, too, that a Bankrupt law may be abused and perverted to the means of fraud upon the creditors. This is possible; but the same objection lies against all remedial laws; they may become the instruments, or occasions, in some instances, of the evils they were designed to prevent. The statute especially made against frauds, has itself been the occasion of frauds-I allude to the statute of frauds and perjuries-still it is considered, and is, a most beneficial statute; its operation being, on the whole, very efficacious in preventing frauds. The evil intended to be remedied by that statute was, the frauds consummated by means of perjury, which had become a frightful evil; but the very means of preventing them became, in some instances, the occasion of them: for, the written evidence and formalities required by the statute, were simulated, and forgery came in to supply the place and do the office of perjury. In all instances of remedial laws, we must rely on the sufficiency of their provisions, and the efficiency of their administration. It is possible that a Bankrupt law may become the instrument, or occasion, of some frauds; but there will be few, compared to the many it will prevent; fraudulent concealments, and fraudulent alienations of property, being made much more difficult to be effected and protected, must be much less frequent; besides, it will prevent that mass of injustice, which, if not fraud, has all the injurious effect of fraud, that is daily taking place, in the partial application of insolvent estates. A Bankrupt System, at the outset, must discharge a multitude of Bankrupts, who can made no dividends, whose inventories, as one gentleman has ludicrously said, are but the beggarly accounts of empty boxes. It was so under the former law, it will be so under this. This is made an objection, and a ground for saying there will be no dividends made under this law. That this multitude Mr. SMITH, of South Carolina, observed, that he was not under the impression that the bill had progressed so far. He desired to express his reasons for opposing the bill; but was not at this moment prepared to do it. He had wished to look into some authorities, and examine documents, which were not to be found in the Library; and, although he was not disposed to delay the advance of the bill, yet, if a short postponement could be allowed, he should be much gratified. On motion of Mr. HAYNE, the bill was laid on the table. TUESDAY, JANUARY 30, 1827. ROAD IN ARKANSAS, &c. On motion of Mr. EATON, the bill to make an appropriation of Fifteen Thousand Dollars for constructing a road from Fort Smith, in Arkansas, to Natchitoches, in Louisiana, was taken up. Mr. EATON said, that he had formerly voted against JAN. 31, 1827.] The Sinking Fund. [SENATE. this bill; and the grounds upon which he did so, were, who had established those posts, ought to render the apthat this road was to run through a part of the State of Louisiana. But, he now understood, that the tract of country, within the limits of that State, through which it was to pass, was a wilderness tract, entirely belonging to the United States. There were, moreover, reasons why this road was very essential to the United States, and the Peo-in violation of the laws and sovereignty of the State. But ple of that part of the Union. Mr. SMITH, of Maryland, said, that it appeared essential to him, to know, whether, if the road should be opened, there would be sufficient travelling upon it to keep it open. If it was to pass through a prairie, and the grass which should be mowed down were to grow up in a short time, and obliterate the track of the road, or, if passing through a forest, the road was likely, in a few years, to be filled with a new growth of trees, he did not perceive the propriety of making the appropriation, when it would be necessary, in all probability, to make it over again in a few years. Besides, the appropriation appeared to him to be very small to effect the construction of so long a road: and he thought the consequence would be, that it would be badly made, and, in a few years, would become impassable. propriations required for the object. These posts were considered necessary by the War Department, to awe the tribes of Indians on the frontier, and this road was equally requisite. It had been objected, the other day, that the road ran through the soil of the State of Louisiana, and the fact, that the land through which the road was to pass, was the property of the United States, and the absolute necessity of a road through the wilderness, were, he thought, sufficient to remove these objections. If a road was not made, the best course would be to withdraw the military posts from the frontier. Mr. BENTON said, that, by a map now before him, it appeared absolutely necessary that this road should be completed; because it was in a wilderness part of the United States, in which there were three military posts, the two which had been already mentioned in this debate, and that on Red river; and, in one part of the route, there was but one house for sixty miles. It was also necessary that a road should be made, to afford the People residing on the Arkansas river, a communication with Red river and it must have its location in the interior, to Mr. HARRISON observed, that the prairie grass would avoid the swamps near the Mississippi, and to prevent the be no obstruction to travellers. But there were forests to necessity of making a circuit, by going down the Arkanpass through, swamps, through which it would be necessas, and following the Mississippi to the mouth of the Red sary to make causeways, and bridges were required over river, and going up that river to reach a destination, to several streams. The person (the Quartermaster Gene- which the road in contemplation would give a direct comral) who made the estimates, was well qualified for giving munication. All that was required was, a sum adequate a correct statement, and was well acquainted with the sub- to the pay of the fatigue money; and had the sum been ject. The gentleman from Maryland objected to the small smaller, it would have been applied by the Quartermaster sum appropriated; but the reason of it was, that the sol- General, without any appropriation by Congress. diers were to be employed in constructing the road, and all that was to be appropriated in this bill was the extra amount of pay to which they would be entitled while thus employed. It was well known, that, while engaged in labor of this description, soldiers received what is called fatigue money, which was actually required by them, as they needed additional clothes, when exposed, by labor, to wear them, more than while doing garrison duty. The road was a mere military road, and was to be made in the same manner as roads were made in time of war. Mr. CHANDLER said, that he knew that, where roads were made through the wilderness, unless there was continual passing upon them, they became very soon useless. He recollected a road which was cut, many years since, through the State of Maine. In a few years after the road was open, the passing was much better through the woods than through the road, and the travelling was altogether on one side of it; and, a short time after, a fire burnt up the bridges and causeways. He was satisfied, that, through a forest country, a road would soon become impassable, if not travelled upon; he did not know how it would be in a prairie country. But, setting aside all question of the want of a road, or the propriety of cutting one at present, he was entirely opposed to passing any acts for the construction of roads, through the State of Louisiana, or any other State. The statement that the road was to pass through the lands of the United States, did not at all alter his objections or change the principle. Mr. SMITH, of Maryland, said, that he had been informed, that the growth of timber was pine, and that the causeways were to be made of that wood. He would ask the gentlemen how long they supposed they would last, made of such materials? The question on engrossing the bill for a third reading was then put, and negatived, by the following vote: YEAS-Messrs. Barton, Benton, Bouligny, Chase, Eaton, Harrison, Hendricks, Johnson, of Kentucky, Kane, Marks, Reed, Ridgely, Robbins, Ruggles, Silsbee, Thomas, and Williams-17. NAYS-Messrs. Bell, Berrien, Branch, Chandler, Clayton, Cobb, Dickerson, Edwards, King, Knight, Macon, Randolph, Rowan, Sanford, Smith, of Maryland, Smith of South Carolina, Tazewell, Van Buren, White, and Woodbury-20. WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 31, 1827. THE SINKING FUND. The bill to appropriate one million from the two millions reserved in the Treasury, to be applied to the debt due to the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund, was then taken up as in Committee of the Whole. Mr. SMITH, of Maryland, said, in relation to the object of the bill, that three millions were due to the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund. It would be inconvenient to pay this sum now, because they were informed by the Secretary of the Treasury, that there would be but about Mr. HENDRICKS remarked, that the objections urged three millions of disposable funds in the Treasury at the by the gentlemen from Maryland and Maine, were not ap-close of the year. The actual receipts were now known, plicable in this case. As to the objection that this road was to pass through a State sovereignty, he would remark, that this was a military road, such as the country was in need of, and the appropriation was only made to defray the fatigue pay of the soldiers. It was by no means the same as a road made for the benefit of the citizens of the State, but a military work, such as was necessary, whether during peace or war. It was necessary to facilitate military operations; and, if it was essential, that, for the existence of the garrisons of Fort Smith and Fort Towson, this road should be opened, he thought the United States, and the sum at the disposal of Congress was reduced to $1,900,000. The Secretary of the Treasury was, by law, authorized to retain two millions in the Treasury over and above the ten millions for the reduction of the public debt, and he would still be authorized to do so, unless the law was altered. The Commissioners of the Sinking Fund must be paid; and it did not seem that any exigency would require the reservation of the two millions; and this bill proposed to take one million from that sum, and apply it to the liquidation of so much of the debt due the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund, and to make the SENATE.] The Sinking Fund. [JAN. 31, 1827. of the United States shall be annually applied by the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund to the redemption of the public debt, and the 4th section provides, that all the money in the Treasury, over and above the ten millions, which shall remain after providing for the current appropriations, shall also be applied to the Sinking Fund, except two millions, which are to remain in the Treasury for any exigency that may occur. Mr. J. stated that the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund, during the last year, had paid over the ten millions, as directed by the act ; that then they examined the state of the Treasury, set apart a sum equal to the appropriations of Congress last year, the ten millions for the Sinking Fund, and the two millions which, by the fourth section, must remain in the Treasury for all accidental and extraordinary occasions, and then applied the balance to the Sinking Fund, to go to the payment of the public debt; and the balance thus paid over was about one million, making eleven millions applied during the year 1826 to this fund, to extinguish the debt. same annual appropriation, until that debt be paid off Nothing would be taken by this from the disposable funds in the Treasury, as, if it was not so appropriated, it would remain unemployed; while, if it was applied as proposed by the bill, it would save the payment of the interest on one million of dollars to the Sinking Fund. The act by which two millions was to be retained in the Treasury, was passed in the time of Mr. Gallatin, and since that time, no exigency had happened that rendered it necessary to expend that sum. Thence, it was argued that half of that sum could be safely taken for this purpose. Mr. SANFORD observed, that he was unwilling to oppose the bill, but he was constrained to object to it, as either he misunderstood the gentleman from Maryland, or he was wrong in the statements upon which this bill was founded. The measure supposed that there was a law making it the duty of the Secretary of the Treasury to keep in the Treasury two millions, in case of any unforeseen exigency. But there was no such act. The act alluded to only provided that, when there was over two millions in the Treasury, the surplus should be ap- He was opposed to touching this two millions now. plied to certain objects: it did not make it absolutely ne- The bill establishing this system was a wise one: it had cessary to keep the two millions in the Treasury. It was also been enacted upon the advice of the most experienced provided that the Treasury should never be exhausted-statesmen and financiers of this country. He would not still the two millions were never out of the power of Con- derange the system for any temporary purpose, and withgress. What was the object of this bill? It was to add out obvious advantage or necessity. This sum had been one million to the ten millions, appropriated to the reduc- set apart as a sum necessary to remain in the Treasury, tion of the public debt, which would make it eleven mil- to guard against all accidents or extraordinary occurlions. The fact is, that the two millions in the Treasury rences, such as war, for example. It did not seem that were at the disposal of Congress; and considering the ne- the sum was too large for such a Government as this: the cessity which now existed for a greater amount of funds sum has been wisely and prudently fixed. If the gentlefor public objects than Congress had at its disposal, it man from Maryland meant that this sum should now go to seemed to him a fair question, whether the million for the the Sinking Fund, as a part of the ten millions for this object provided for in the bill before the Senate, should year, very little would be gained by that, as the Commisnot be deducted from the ten millions applied to the pay- sioners of the Sinking Fund would, in due time, apply the ment of the public debt, rather than added to it. The whole ten millions of this year; and the little saving of intwo millions retained in the Treasury were always at the terest, even if it could be applied now to the extinguishdisposal of Congress, and might be needed for the exi- ment of the public debt, would not be worth the derangegencies of the Government. He felt diffident in oppos- ment of our general system; but it could not be applied, ing the bill, to the object of which he had no objection; he thought, earlier than June or July. but it struck him that it was worth consile ng whether it should not be effected in some other manner. Mr. COBB would offer another idea. It was known that there was one million of the funds in the Treasury, which were unavailable; and if, according to the bill, one million should be drawn from the Treasury, would it not be emptied entirely? Mr. JOHNSTON, of Louisiana, said, the gentleman from Georgia was under a mistake with regard to the million of unavailable funds. He stated that there was a nominal balance in the Treasury every year, and had not materially varied this year from the last. There was stated, by estimate, to be in the Treasury, on the 1st of January, 1827, about six millions and a halt, of which one million was known not to be effective, and was therefore not taken into view, but which left in the Treasury about five and a half millions. But about three and a half millions of this money was unexpended appropriations, which had not been called for, for the objects to which it had been appropriated, but would be drawn as fast as required during the present year. That sum, although always in the Treasury, from the nature of the contracts and disbursements of the Government, was not a fund to be drawn on. It was already destined to particular purposes. But there remained in the Treasury, still, two millions, one half of which the gentleman from Maryland proposes to apply now to the payment of the public debt. Mr. J. said that he had no knowledge of this intention. The bill was called up suddenly, and without notice; he had no papers or documents to refer to, and should depend on his memory for the facts. The act of 1817 directs that ten millions of the revenue But, if the gentleman means to apply this million over and above the ten millions to be paid this year, then he was opposed to that project. Mr. J. said, the revenue of the present year is estimated at twenty-three millions. The ordinary expenditure of the Government is ten millions seven hundred thousand. The sinking fund is ten millions, which makes twenty millions seven hundred thousand. There then remains in the Treasury, two millions three hundred thousand for the extraordinary expenditure-a sum less than was appropriated last year for those various objects. But we have estimated two millions for land, a sum double the ordinary revenue from that source; this depends upon calculations that may be fallacious. It is safer to put the proceeds of lands at a million; and that will give us for 1827, twenty-two millions. This will leave in the Treasury but one million three hundred thousand dollars for all the extraordinary calls upon the Government, including donations, Indians, improvement of harbors, roads, canals, breakwaters, and a thousand other objects, which are indispensable, and which regularly occur every year. This sum is less than half of what is usually applied to all these objects. The House will be surprised to see the number and amount of these miscellaneous claims. He was himself surprised to see them; but he acknowledged they were necessary and proper appropriations, and without which it was impossible for any Government to get along. We know that twenty millions seven hundred thousand dollars must be paid during the present year, but we do not know what other appropriations may be made during the present session. Until we know that, we can form no estimate of how much money it will be necessary to JAN. 31, 1827.] The Sinking Fund. retain in the Treasury. Suppose we appropriate but not belong to the sinking fund. We have paid over cle- lated) for improvements of various kinds, now pressing on the consideration of Congress. We have ports to open, channels to deepen, break-waters, roads, canals, and various other subjects of great concern to this coun try. If this sum may be safely touched, why apply it to the sinking fund? The public debt is short of seventyfour millions; of this, thirteen millions is three per cent. Mr. J. said, is it not better to wait to see what appro- stock, which will never be redeemed. There remains priations may be required by the present Congress, be- but sixty millions, to which we apply ten every year. It fore we touch this fund of two millions, which has been is in a progress of rapid extinguishment. If the debt was extinguished, we should have a surplus of more than ten wisely placed in the Treasury for all exigencies? He said the appropriations had, and must always, ex-millions-a sum too large to be expended in one year. It He had observed, that, since 1801, will, therefore, be more prudent to take two millions ceed the estimates. they had greatly exceeded, except in 1815, when we fell from the ten already applied to the sinking fund. It will from a war estimate to a peace expenditure; and in the postpone the final payment less than three years. If we years 1819, '20, and '21, when we were obliged to re- fix the sinking fund at eight millions, it will extinguish trench and economise, because the revenue was greatly the whole debt in 1839; and this will give us two mildiminished. These excesses of appropriations over the lions a year more for these great objects of improvement. estimates, which were created by acts of Congress after The money will be gradually and usefully expended, and the estimates were made, were from one to three millions defer the time when we must have a large surplus-too a year. They are incident to the expense of Govern- large to be wisely and equally distributed in one year, for ment, always accruing, and must enter into every fiscal all the great common objects to which it is destined. For calculation. He said he had no papers by him, or he the present, he was willing to let every thing stand as it how much we will apply to the public debt annually and would show to what these usually amounted, and of what did; but it must become soon a matter of serious inquiry items they were composed. how much to objects of improvement? and that must be left to the wisdom of Congress. He was of opinion, that eight millions, applied for five years, and six millions thereafter, would pay the debt soon enough, and leave from four to five millions a year for all objects worthy the public attention. Mr. J. said, if it should appear, during this year, that more than ten millions can be paid to the sinking fund, after all the appropriations are made for the current year, and leaving two millions in the Treasury, the Commissioners have the power, which they will certainly exercise, of paying over all the disposable funds. If there should not be enough, we shall have a fund of two millions next year, from which we may make up the deficiency. At present, he would not be disposed to limit the power of Congress to appropriate for all the proper objects having claims upon the country and the Government; and if we touch this sum, it seemed to him that there would be a limit beyond which we could not safely go. We must be limited by the means. expenses Mr. J. said that, during the two years of 1825 and 1826, the Government had paid three millions of the public debt over and above the twenty millions of the sinking fund. They had, besides, paid for those extraordinary of the Government, sums which had been wisely applied to great and important objects, six millions; making a mass of nine millions paid from the Treasury during those years. The three millions had been applied to deficiencies of former years, in which they had not been able to pay the ten millions. Mr. J. said, that it was the appropriations over the estimate that created the difference last year between the Secretary of the Treasury and the Chairman of the Ways and Means Committee in the House of Representatives. The Secretary of the Treasury had calculated upon these appropriations at about three millions, which was not far wrong. The Chairman omitted them because not estimated; and this constituted the difference between the six and nine millions which was necessary to meet the debt falling due that year. It has been rumored that the Treasury will be deficient. There is no foundation for this, unless we exhaust it by draining the Treasury for the sinking fund, over the contemplated sum of ten millions. The estimate of the present year is founded on the revenue accruing from the bonds already in the hands of the Government, about which there can be little mistake. As to succeeding years, what is to produce the change to render the reve nue from imposts below twenty millions? No change has taken place in twelve months, in all the great staples of the country. The amount of cotton, tobacco, flour, rice, &c. and the prices, remain as they were during the last year, and the exportation of domestic produce will not vary much from the six millions. The whole export is rather increased in quantity. If, therefore, any thing can be argued from the exportation, with regard to the importation, no change can be anticipated. Some diminution has been experienced froin the tea trade, and some. thing from presumed frauds in the woollens; but these are both before Congress. But, said Mr. J., besides these calculations, I have the opinion of very extensive merchants, that this will be a good importation year, and that there will be no falling off. The imposts will probably never fall below the nett amount estimated for this year of twenty millions. But if there is any of the dangers which have been anticipated, and which he had heard predicted, it is a reason for keeping the two millions in the Treasury for all exigenIn September next, the Commissioners of the Mr. J. said, that, notwithstanding we have paid more cies. than seven millions in two years, over and above the ordi- Sinking Fund will be again called on to examine the nary appropriations for the sinking fund, and the ex-state of the Treasury, and they will apply all the balance penses of the Government, there remains in the Treasury that remains, after paying ali the appropriations, the ten two millions. This sum is a sacred deposite for all sud- millions, and the reserved two millions, to the public den emergencies. It may not be called for this year or debt. If you force all the money out of the Treasury, the next, but no one knows what unexpected event may and any accident occurs, or any deficiency happens, in the revenue, we shall have to borrow, require it. But if it is not necessary to be preserved for such occastons as may arise, and do arise in every country, it does VOL. III-13 In January, 1825, there was a sum in the Treasury si milar to the one now there, and no such movement was |