Mr. Lincoln - I would like to direct the attention of the Committee of the Whole to the bill by Mr. Betts, No. 396 on the printed calendar. The Chairman - Will the gentleman wait for a moment? Mr. Lincoln - And I would suggest to Mr. Betts that he introduce his amendment and have it read at this time. I merely call attention to his printed number, so that those delegates who wish may look it up. It is Printed No. 396. Mr. Wickersham - Is that an amendment to the pending section? Mr. Wickersham - It is suggested he make an amendment? Mr. Lincoln - It is an amendment as to the census. The Chairman - The Chair is of the opinion that we will proceed very much more expeditiously if the Committee will just listen to the reading of the amendments which have been now introduced. Mr. Betts - Mr. Chairman, I offer the following amendment. The Chairman - Mr. Betts will send his amendment to the desk. The Secretary will proceed. Mr. Westwood - Mr. Chairman, I offer this amendment. The Secretary - By Mr. Wagner. On page 11, line 10, after the word "territory" eliminate the words "and no county". Mr. Dooling - What page is that? The Secretary - Page 11, line 10. On page 11, eliminate the lines 11 and 12. Mr. Westwood What page? The Secretary - Page 11. On page 11, line 23, eliminate all of the line, except the first word. On page 11, eliminate lines 24 and 25. On page 12, eliminate line 1 and line 2 down to the words "the ratio". Mr. Westwood Question. The Chairman - The Secretary will read all of these amendments so that they will all be before the House. The Secretary - By Mr. Haffen. On page 11, line 1, strike out the word "six" and substitute in place thereof the word "two". On page 11, lines 5, 6 and 7, strike out the following Mr. Wickersham What lines? The Secretary - Lines 5, 6 and 7, strike out the following: Mr. Haffen - Mr. Chairman, that reads to exclude aliens, “according to the last State enumeration," The Secretary - Strike out the following - "According to the last State enumeration, or if no State enumeration shall have been taken within a period of five years prior to such apportionment then". Mr. Haffen - And substitute "according to the preceding Federal census". The Chairman - The Secretary has read the amendment as sent to the desk. Mr. Brackett - Mr. Chairman. The Chairman - Mr. Brackett. Mr. Brackett - I suggest to the man manifesting charge of the bill, that that amendment is a proper one to accept. The Secretary - By Mr. E. N. Smith. On page 11, strike out the brackets in lines 24 and 25. On page 12 strike out the bracket and italicized words in lines 1 and 2. Strike out the words "fifty-one" on lines 4 and 5 and insert the word "fifty" in the place thereof. Strike out the brackets in lines 5 and 10. Mr. Wickersham - Mr. Chairman, is there not also in that amendment a motion to strike out in line 5 the word "fifty-one" and substitute "fifty"? Mr. E. N. Smith - Mr. Chairman. The Chairman - Mr. E. N. Smith. Mr. E. N. Smith - May I have read in that connection my other amendment on page 11, which I introduced this morning? Mr. Stimson - Mr. Chairman. The Chairman - Mr. Stimson. Mr. Stimson - Is there not a misprint in the bill on line 5, page 12, to which Mr. Wickersham has called attention, the words "fifty-one"? Mr. Wickersham The "one" should be in brackets? 66 Mr. Stimson - No, the word one" should be in italics, and that should be stricken out if Mr. Smith's amendment is made. Mr. Wickersham - Mr. Chairman, Mr. Smith's proposed amendment to this amendment on page 11, line 25, called for the insertion of the words on the first day of January, one thousand eight hundred and ninety-five" and the striking out of the word "now". The Chairman - The Secretary has not that amendment at the desk. Mr. Wickersham - It was offered. Mr. E. N. Smith - The amendment was sent to the desk. The Chairman - I am informed by the Secretary that he has not that amendment. Mr. E. N. Smith - I will send another copy up. The Chairman - If Mr. Smith will send another copy to the desk. Mr. E. N. Smith - It is there. The Secretary - I have got it. The Chairman - The Secretary will read the correction or the addition. The Secretary - On page 11, line 24, strike out the word "now" and insert after the word "organized" in line 25, the words on the first day of January, one thousand eight hundred and ninety-five". The Chairman - Is the Chair to understand that this is all part of the same amendment? Mr. E. N. Smith - Yes. Mr. Franchot Mr. Chairman. The Chairman Will Mr. Franchot wait a minute? Mr. Franchot - Mr. Chairman, I remember that yesterday the period was to be changed to a comma in line 5 on page 12 as a part of that amendment, and I would like to know if that has been noted. The Chairman - The Secretary will proceed to read the other amendments. The Secretary - By Mr. Buxbaum: On page 15, line 4, Mr. Buxbaum That refers to Section 5. The Secretary - By Mr. Bernstein: On page 11, line 24, strike out the brackets. By Mr. M. J. O'Brien, substitute proposed amendment printed No. 722. Mr. M. J. O'Brien - Mr. Chairman. The Chairman - Mr. O'Brien. Mr. M. J. O'Brien - May I be permitted to explain my substitute? It seems to me, if the gentlemen of the Convention will bear with me a moment, we can clarify this situation. The Committee on Legislative Organization have presented here in respect to this section a report which attempts to extend the limitations upon the true representation as we see it of the city of New York, by taking that limitation and extending it so that it shall include the two additional counties of Richmond and Queens. Now, Mr. Smith has suggested by his amendment, as I understand it, that we go back to the Constitution as it is to-day, which continues the limitation that New York city shall not have one-half of the representation. It confines it, in fixing the territory. It is only as to the two counties. It fixes it so that there remains the present limitation in the Constitution. Now, my substitute of course, if that amendment of Mr. Smith's should be adopted, it would leave the Constitution and the limitation as it is to-day. Now, then, for the purpose of bringing up the question - I am not going to discuss it on the merits, because everybody had a full opportunity to discuss it when it was before us - my substitute is for the purpose of removing that limitation so that the city of New York shall have a representation based upon its population and its vote. Mr. F. Martin - Mr. Chairman. The Chairman - Will Mr. Martin wait a moment until the other amendments have been read by the Secretary? The Secretary informs me there are still four or five. The Secretary - By Mr. Saxe: In Section 4, page 11, line 10, after the word "territory" insert "as far as practicable ". By Mr. Parsons: After the period in line 2, page 11, insert the following "at the regular session of the Legislature in each ten years after the year one thousand nine hundred and twenty-six, the Senate districts shall be altered by the Senate districts altered as herein provided shall remain unaltered until the time appointed for another alteration." Mr. Parsons - May I have a moment to explain that? (Interchange between Mr. Parsons and Mr. E. N. Smith inaudible at the stenographer's desk.) Mr. E. N. Smith - I did not know that I had charge of the bill. Mr. A. E. Smith - Mr. Chairman, I will take charge of it, if nobody else will. Mr. Parsons - You are the wrong Smith. The Chairman - Mr. Parsons has the floor. Mr. Brackett - Mr. Chairman, I supposed Tammany Hall was already in charge of the thing, so that was not necessary. The Chairman - Mr. Parsons has the floor. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. Parsons Certainly. Mr. R. B. Smith - That amendment is perfectly drafted, and is necessary and the provision which it is intended to cover was in my draft of the bill which was left out by Senator Brackett by error. Mr. Parsons - Mr. Chairman, the object of it is to make this a principle which will be self-acting for the future. As the bill was reported, it only provided for reapportionment this current year and up to 1926, but nothing for 1936. Mr. E. N. Smith-As I understand the apportionment article it is as Mr. Parsons has said, a self-operating article, and his amendment simply restores that character to the bill and is without, as far as I am concerned, any objection. I did not see the phraseology, but the purpose he seeks to accomplish, it seems to me is proper. Now, while I am on my feet, I suggest The Chairman - Will the gentleman pause until the Secretary has read the amendment? The Secretary will proceed. The Secretary - By Mr. Parsons: On page 11, strike out the words - The Secretary-On page 11, lines 13 and 17, strike out the words "election districts" and in lines 12 and 16, page 16, Mr. Parsons - Mr. Chairman, may I make a brief explanation of that? It applies to both sections four and five, and the object is to strike out the words "election districts" and restore the word "block". Mr. Wickersham - May I call attention to the fact that it does not appear to strike out the brackets Mr. Parsons - The Secretary has not read all the amendment. The Chairman - If the gentlemen will allow the Secretary to read the amendments we may get it in such shape that they can be understood. The Secretary will proceed. The Secretary - On line 18, page 11, strike out the brackets, and in lines 13 and 14, 17, 18, page 11,— The Chairman - The Secretary is unable to understand the amendment and may the Chair ask Mr. Parsons to rephrase the amendment so that the two sections which are amended shall be separately stated, and send it in writing to the desk? Mr. Parsons - All right; I will attend to it. The Chairman - The Secretary will proceed with the next amendment. The Secretary - By Mr. Betts: On page 10, strike out the lines 22, 23, 24 and 25, and on page 11, line 1, and all of line 2, to and including the word "legislature", and substitute the following: "The Legislature at its first regular session after the return of the State enumeration for the year 1915 shall redivide the State into Senate districts, and may in its discretion make such redivision at the first regular session after the return of the next United States census. Thereafter it shall make such redivision on the first regular session at the expiration of every tenth year after the year 1920." By Mr. Westwood: On page 11, line 24, strike out the bracket; on page 11, line 25, strike out the bracket; page 12, line 1, strike out the bracket and the words in italics. Page 12, line 2, strike out the words in italics. Page 11, line 24, enclose the word "now" in brackets. Page 11, line 25, after the word "organized" insert "on January 1, 1895 ". Mr. Lincoln Mr. Chairman, has the Secretary finished the reading of the amendments? The Chairman - The Secretary has. Mr. Lincoln - Might I suggest that the Committee take this section up first, as to the paragraphs providing for enumeration, and afterward the second paragraph, relating to the divisions of blocks, or election districts, as to the question of New York city, later. We might, it seems to me, very properly dispose of these different propositions separately Mr. E. N. Smith - Mr. Chairman. The Chairman - Mr. Smith. Mr. E. N. Smith - It seems to me it would lead to clarity of action on the part of the Committee if we took up the proposals which have been introduced by me, because they refer to a definite line of thought, to restore the division with reference to the scheme or method of apportionment as it was in the Constitution, and these other amendments which are made necessary by the change of time may be taken up as an entirely separate proposition. Therefore, I would suggest that those matters be cleared up. Of course, I assume Mr. Wagner's proposal would have to be taken care of, because it is first on the list in the order that we might follow. The Chairman - The proposed section is open to discussion. Mr. Lincoln - I move that the Committee take up the first paragraph of the section, the enumeration, which has nothing to do with the other amendments proposed. Mr. M. Saxe - Mr. Chairman. The Chairman - Mr. Saxe. Mr. M. Saxe - It seems to me, Mr. Lincoln's suggestion is the intelligent one, and I hope that will be followed. The Chairman - The Committee has heard the motion of Mr. Lincoln. Mr. D. Nicoll - Mr. Chairman, I rise to a point of order. The rules require that we take up the amendments in order. We are now to take up Mr. Wagner's amendment unless otherwise directed by the House. Why not take them up just as they are, instead of going off into another field. Mr. Wagner - If the gentleman will yield? The Chairman - Will the gentleman yield? Mr. Wagner - Mr. Chairman, the proposal offered by Judge O'Brien covers the same point as my amendment. His offer is in the form of a substitute, and perhaps a little more accurate and scientific than mine, and I suggest that we vote on Judge O'Brien's amendment in the order that mine would be voted. Mr. Lincoln Will Mr. Wagner yield for a question? Mr. Wagner - Sure. Mr. Lincoln - Have you any objection to voting upon the question of the enumeration contained in the first paragraph before coming to these subjects? Mr. Wagner - No. The Chairman - The question will have to be put upon these amendments in their order, and then upon the whole section, either amended or not amended, as the case may be. Of course, the discussion can take place in any way the members choose to discuss it, but the whole matter is covered by a rule to the effect that we take the amendments up in order. Mr. D. Nicoll - If Mr. Lincoln insists, I withdraw. Mr. Wickersham - Mr. Chairman, I call for order. Mr. Lincoln - I do think we are going to waste a lot of time if we are going to take up the amendments in the order they are introduced. I think we ought to take them up by subject-matter. I don't care whether we take this paragraph first or last. |