cr

"house.

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public on account of the bonds now to be issued, or any other debts of the company; and as it was understood that an enquiry into the state of the company's affairs was to take place early in the next session, if the East-India company could borrow money in the way proposed, he should not

tiality, to the hindrance of that election, "and in breach of the privileges of this That such misconduct might "not go altogether unpunished, you were "thereupon committed to the custody of "the serjeant at arms; and if this house "has forborne, upon this occasion, to press upon you with any greater seve-object to it. 66 rity, it has not been because it deemed Mr. R. Dundas contended, that by proyour offence to be light or venial; but perly analysing the accounts on the table, "because, having in its contemplation to the hon. member would have found that prevent the like offence in future by the accounts for 1805-6, instead of a defi"other measures, it has thought that ciency, produced a surplus of 800,0001. ; any further severity of punishment in and by a necessary attention to the exyour instance, for the purpose of exam-penditure, he had no doubt it would prople, was become unnecessary. And now,duce such a surplus as would be sufficient your petition having shewn that you en- for a speedy liquidation of their debts. "tertain a proper sense of your own mis- Lord Folkestone declared, from all the "conduct, this house has, in compliance attention he had been able to pay to the "with its prayer, directed that you be dis-subject, that the deduction drawn by his "charged; and you are discharged accord-hon. friend (Mr. Creevey), not that of the ingly."-The above reprimand was order-right hon. gent. opposite, was correct. ed, nem. con., to be entered in the journals. [EAST-INDIA COMPANY'S BONDS BILL.] On the motion for the third reading of this bill,

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General Tarleton said, he had it in charge from his constituents to oppose the bill; and particularly to oppose the renewal of the company's exclusive charter; which, when it came before the house, he should feel it his duty to do.

Mr. Creevey said, when he formerly expressed a wish that the further progress in this bill should be postponed, he did so because the necessary accounts were not then all on the table. They had since been produced, and they were by no means calculated to satisfy him, that the company had any prospect of being able to produce a revenue which should at any time greatly exceed their expenditure, or such as would enable them to provide for the payment of these Bonds. It appeared to him, that there was even on the accounts 1805-6, a deficiency of 2,000,000l. He had heard an hou. member, a director of the company, (Mr. Grant) talk of a residue of nearly 1,000,000l. He saw, indeed, on looking into the accounts, a balance in one place of 600,000l. but in this view of the case, the interest of the debts due by the company were not provided for. Calculating on this and the other expences, there was a deficiency for the year 1805-6 of nearly two millions, and for the preceding year of 1,600,000/. He was therefore more than ever confirmed in the opinion, that there was an impossibility in supposing that the company could ever have a net surplus revenue, or should ever be able to provide for their debts abroad and at home. As, however, it was admitted by the hon. director and by the chancellor of the exchequer, that no claim could lie against the

Mr. Whitbread thought that the weight of testimony was at present against the company. If, however, an hon. member of the board of controul (Mr. Johnstone), whom he now saw in his place, would join his testimony to that of the gentleman at the head of the board, as to the state of the company's affairs, and the probability of a favourable issue, he should be satisfied; at least it would go far to make him credit the statement of the right hon. gent.(Mr. R. Dundas.)-The bill was then read a third time. On the question that the bill do pass, Mr. W. said, that observing the hon. gent. to whom he alluded, had preserved a determined silence, he must object to the passing of the bill.

Mr. Johnstone felt himself extremely flattered by the appeal made to him by the hon. gent. opposite. Gentlemen, however, would recollect that he had always been impressed with a gloomy opinion on this subject. He confessed he did not at this moment look to the future situation of the company with a sanguine eye. prudence and economy, he thought much might be done; but the company ought not, and could not, expect a great additional revenue. As much was already drawn from their territories, as could be expected. It was therefore to economy

By

principally they were to look for a change in their affairs. As to the support to be given to the inclination of his constituents, ten years hence, by the hon. general (Tarleton), he could only say, he hoped the hon. general would, at the expiration of that period, continue their representative. But at the same time, he had no hesitation in declaring it to be his fixed opinion, that the preservation of our empire in that quarter of the globe depended on the preservation of the company.

sent application of the company to parlia ment. The prospective account of these home receipts andpayments, from March 1807 to March 1808, laid before the house last session, shewed a deficit of about 2,200,000/ It was to provide for this deficit that the company applied, not for any grant of money, as might be misconceived from the hon. gentleman's mode of speaking, but for leave to issue bonds to the amount of two millions, instead of raising that sum by an increase of their capital stock, to which The following will be found a more cor- stock they had already a power from parrect report of the Speech of Mr. Graut, onliament to add two millions, equivalent to the second reading of this bill, than the one given at p. 833.

nearly four millions sterling. But though they possessed this power since the year Mr. Grant,in reply to Mr. Creevey,said he 1797, they had declined, and still wished had often, when Indian subjects were before to decline using it, because during war the house,expressed his readiness to go into a stock must be funded to a disadvantage and full investigation of those subjects, and of therefore money procured in this way would the company's affairs, provided only that cost them a higher rate of interest than the investigation were to be conducted not they would pay on their bonds, besides by party prejudice, but with fairness and entailing on their affairs an additional impartiality. No subjects more required amount of capital, of which they could not to be treated dispassionately and without hereafter divest themselves, whereas they aggravation. To consider them in any could pay off their bonds whenever it suitother way, must be productive of mischief, ed their affairs. And this also furnished an rather than of benefit, yet he was sorry to argument against the hon. gent.'s reasonobserve that the hon. gent. (Mr. Creevey)ing, because bonds could only obtain. 2 bad indulged himself in statements which loan during the pleasure of the holders, appeared chargeable with exaggeration, and who might claim payment whenever they to be in some points the result rather of thought fit. This was therefore a case ignorance than of knowledge. With re-different from any of the former applications spect to the desire shewn of passing this of the company, alluded to by the hon. bill through the house, before the accounts gent.,-for the company here asked for of the Indian budget could come under con- no extension of credit, they asked mere. sideration, it arose merely from an expec-ly to be allowed to raise by bond part of tation that the session would be a very that sum which they already possessed a short one. The Indian accounts of the two power to raise by stock, and which they last years had not been long in the posses-could now raise by stock, if they thought sion of the court of directors, and the hou. fit. The hon. gent. had endeavoured to gent, himself ought to know from expe- shew that this power to raise more stock rience, the difficulty of such an arrangement had been given to the company as a comof those numerous documents as should put mutation for raising more money by bonds, them in a fit state for the consideration of which according to him they were unable the house. The fact was, that with all the to do, even when the issue of bonds was diligence that could be exerted, it was under two millions; but here he was enfound impracticable to place them on the tirely mistaken, for the application of the table in a printed state, before the time at company for that power to increase the which it was necessary to proceed with the stock, appeared from the journals to have present bill. The papers of the first year been made on this general ground, "that he hoped would be laid before the house to- the affairs of the petitioners required a day, those of the second were in a state of" permanent advance of a considerable forwardness, and would follow in a few sum of money beyond what they could days; but if this bill were to wait for the raise under the powers then vested in discussion of them, the object proposed by "them by law, and the petitioners conit might be defeated. There were besides," ceived that the money so wanted by them documents already before the house, which "should be raised by an increase of the sufficiently shewed the ground of the pre- capital stock." The company, moreover,

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as would be seen by their annual accounts, responsible. As to the failure of expectawere empowered and able to raise 3 millions tions, formerly held out by a noble lord at by bonds. The hon. gentlemen had stated the head of the Indian department, it was that the estimate for 1807-8, shewed a loss fair to the company to say that those exby their commerce of above two millions. pectations were stated to be on the suppoThis was a very gross error. There was no sition of a permanent peace, and were deloss on their commerce, but a gain. The feated by the long European war which account was not a statement of profit and followed the French revolution, and by loss, but a prospective estimate of expen-successive wars in India, all which had enditure, and of ways and means for the en-tailed prodigious expences on the company suing year. The deficit it exhibited deter- both at home and abroad. The return of mined nothing as to the general result of peace in India however, certainly afforded the company's affairs; only the expected hope that the present embarrassments of receipts and expected payments in one the company would be but temporary; for year. And the deficit arose not from their considerable retrenchments in the expendi commerce, but from the remittance of ture were now going on in India under the large supplies of goods and bullion in three administration of sir George Barlow (whose successive years, 1803, 4, and 5, to India, conduct in adopting the pacific system of for the purposes of investment and liquida- lord Cornwallis, after having before action of debt, which remittances had been quiesced in the foreign policy of lord applied in a great degree to defray the ex- Wellesley, Mr. Grant defended against the pences of the wars in which the company observations of Mr. Creevey) and the adhad come to be involved in India, without vices from thence held out the expectation their orders, and contrary to their wishes. of a surplus of revenue after defraying all On account of these wars too, the returns charges and the interest of the debt. of investment from India were less than That the peace of India would be perma❤ usual, and from the state of the continent, Mr. Grant said he had not taken nent of Europe, had come to a worse upon him to assert. He had spoken of market than usual, the company's ware- what might be hoped for if peace conhouses being now stocked with goods, for tinued; and as to its continuance, though which if there had been a ready sale, time undoubtedly the native powers must have enough to meet their exigencies, the pre-been greatly alienated from us by the sent application for power to raise money course of policy and war which the British by bonds, might not have been necessary. government had recently pursued there, With respect to that part of the Indian and they might then be far more ready, debt which the hon. gent. called a floating under new and encouraging circumstances, debt, and by which it appeared he meant to act against us, yet at present they the part claimable in England, or the de-shewed no disposition to break with us, and cennial and optional loans, though it was were indeed reduced in means. We also had undoubtedly a very serious considera-professedly resumed a pacific system, and our tion, it could not come suddenly and all manifesting a determination to persevere at once upon the company. The first of in it might have a tendency to conciliate the decennial loans was two millions, aud them.-Dr. Laurence having in his speech not due till 1810. The optional loans bear-insinuated that Mr. Grant had inconsistenting the large interest of India and not be-ly departed from the language held in the ing transferable to England at a high rate of third report of the directors, aud the opiexchange, were not likely to be transferred nions he had given in that house respecting thither in a mass, and before there was a the measures of lord Wellesley, Mr. Grant provision made for their payment. At the replied that he was no party to the third same time, nobody contended that it was report, not having concurred in it nor ha not of the greatest importance to the com- ving been a member of the court when it pany, that some plan should be adopted was brought forward; and as to the late for the liquidation of the Indian debt, measures in India, when they came to be though it was not then the moment to en-discussed, it would be found he had not ter into that subject. The debt was enor- uttered his sentiments regarding them. mous, and the great difficulty with which the company had to struggle.-But it had not attained its present alarming height by measures for which the directors were

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Friday, July 31.

[IRISH INSURRECTION BILL.] On the

question for the third reading of this bill, afbill, he, on the contrary, would have voted number of amendments, similar to those for extending it. Parliament always having offered in the house of commons, were the power of repealing it if the necessity proposed by lord Holland, earl Fitzwilliam, which now existed for it should cease. and the duke of Bedford. After much discussion, they were all negatived.

The Duke of Bedford moved to limit the duration of the bill to one year and two months, after the commencement of the then next session of parliament, instead of two years and six months after the commencement of the then next session of parliament, as expressed in the bill. The noble duke thought that a bill conferring such extraordinary powers should have as short a duration as possible.

Lord Sidmouth was inimical to giving a long duration to bills of this nature, but from the situation of Ireland, he believed the term of duration, expressed in this bill, to be necessary. He was decidedly hostile to frequent discussions of this subject as tending to excite irritation in Ireland.

Earl Grosvenor supported the amendment, conceiving from the nature of the clauses, that the bill ought to have the shortest possible duration.

Lord Mulgrave would rather have agreed Lord Hawkesbury thought, that the to extend the duration of the bill than to knowledge that such a bill existed, and shorten it; convinced, as he was, of its that the powers conferred by it might be necessity, and, at the same time, that it called into action, would do much to re- was always in the power of parliament to press and keep down a spirit of disturb-repeal it in case that necessity ceased.— ance. With this view of the subject, re- The amendment was negatived, and the gretting as he did, the necessity that ex-bill read a third time and passed.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Friday, July 31.

[IRISH PROTESTANT CHURCH.]

Sir J.

isted for such a measure, he still thought that the longer period was preferable; nor did he see any reason to expect that the causes which produced the necessity for this bill would cease to operate within the Newport enquired if any step was intended to shorter period proposed by the noble duke.be taken by his majesty's ministers, founded Lord Holland, viewing as he did the on the returns which had been made of the state of Ireland, and with the sentiments state of the established church in Ireland? which he had constantly avowed with re- He had the authority of the primate and spect to the causes of that unfortunate situ- metropolitan of all Ireland, for stating ation of affairs in Ireland which led to the that there were, in one diocese, no less necessity for the present bill, could not than 10 parishes without a church, without help pressing upon the attention of their a glebe-house, without, in short, any sort lordships the great importance of discus-of residence for the clergyman, and withsing the affairs of Ireland in parliament, out any probability that there would shortand of endeavouring to come to those con-ly be any dwelling erected for that purpose. clusions which might, by removing the It was known that his majesty's late miniscauses of grievance, prevent the necessity of ters had entered into a serious considerarecurring to such measures as the present. He could not, therefore, but be a warm friend to frequent discussions of this subject. He thought that every opportunity should be taken of recurring to it, and therefore he supported the amendment moved by his noble friend, in order that this important subject might again come under the consideration of parliament at an earlier period than it otherwise could do, according to the term of duration expressed in the bill.

tion of those circumstances; and, if he was not given to understand that the present ministers intended to make some material alteration in that respect, he gave notice that he would, early in the next sessions, submit to parliament, a proposition on that head.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer assured the right hon. baronet, that it was the intention of his majesty's present servants to turn their attention to the state of the church in Ireland, as soon as they had beThe Duke of Montrose deprecated fre- fore them such documents as might authoquent, discussions of this subject, which rize them to take any step towards the could do no possible good, but on the con-accomplishment of so desirable an object. trary, only tended to keep up a spirit of At present, however, he had not in his irritation amongst the people of Ireland. hands such returns as he thought necessary, Instead of shortening the duration of the previous to his endeavour to remedy the

evil of which the right hon. baronet com plained.

not enter into further than to state, that in May last, in consequence of a determi[STATE OF IRELAND.] Mr. Sheridan gave nation to make a concerted effort with the notice, that he would, on Friday next, sub-aid of Prussia, Russia, and such assistance mit to the house a motion relative to the general State of Ireland.

as could be afforded from this country, it was thought adviseable to push the exer The Chancellor of the Exchequer expres- tions of Sweden as far as the resources of sed a desire to be informed, what was the that country would afford. Previous to particular object which the right hon. that time, while there was no appearance gent. had in contemplation? It might for of any service being rendered in that quarthe present suffice if the right hon. gent. ter by the power of Sweden alone, no would state, whether his attention was augmentation of the Swedish troops was meant to be directed towards the civil, ecclesiastical, or military state of that part of the united kingdom, as by that means he might be prepared to meet the subject. Mr. Sheridan said, that he had not the least unwillingness to satisfy the right hon. gent. as far as the rules of the house would permit him at present. His intent was to submit to the house the proposition of a strong pledge, that they would, early in the next session, enter into an enquiry as to the causes of that discontent which was said to exist in Ireland, and upon the rumour of which the house had been induced to adopt that strong measure, the Irish Insurrection act, which would shortly, no doubt, receive the sanction of both houses of parliament.

[SUBSIDIES TO PRUSSIA AND SWEDEN, &c.] On the motion of the chancellor of the exchequer, the house resolved itself into a committee of supply, to which his majesty's messages, and several other papers, were referred.

thought of. But when the king of Prussia agreed to furnish 10,000 men to act in Pomerania, when a Russian detachment also was expected in that quarter, and when it was in contemplation to send a force from this country, an arrangement was made for bringing into action a Swedish force of 16,000 men instead of 12,000 before employed. The additional 4000 men were to be furnished at rather a cheaper rate than the terms of the former subsidy. As no money had yet been paid, in consequence of this addition, and as the utmost that could become payable in this year could be no more than 40 or 50,000%. which would be fully covered by the vote of credit passed according to custom, he did not think it necessary to look further into this point, being prepared to give any explanation that might be demanded. With regard to the advances to Prussia, in consequence of the urgency of affairs on the continent, the advances in money, notwithstanding they might be authorized by the message in Mr. Secretary Canning, in moving the March, would not have been made if the house to grant the sums which were the sub- exigency of the case could have admitted ject of his majesty's messages, should con- of waiting for the conclusion of the treaty tent himself with stating shortly, that the then in contemplation. first sum of 80,000%. was the same which had was made, however, it was stipulated that already been made the subject of a commu. the two sums of 80,000l. and 100,000%. nication from his majesty in March last, should be deducted from the first payment and which had been suffered to lie over of the subsidy, and the amount of the without being made good, in order that an arms from the future payments. Unques opportunity might be afforded of a fuller tionably, the objects of the treat ywere of a view of what should be necessary to be large extent, and the subsidy of a large proposed. The message he had brought amount, if the contingencies on which it down the other day, divided itself into two was to take effect had happened, and if the parts. One, the measure of subsidizing an events that had arisen had not put an end to increased number of Swedish troops; the the engagements, and left us the charge of other, the advance to Prussia, and the pro- making good these advances. The arms posed treaty of subsidy with that power. had been supplied from the offices to which The arrangement with Sweden, though it that charge belonged, and the expence was thought a fact proper to be communi- when made out, would be covered by the cated to parliament, and though payments vote of credit; all that would be necessary might come to be made upon it, yet as therefore for the house to vote, would none had yet been made, and as no vote be the sums advanced to his Prussian mawas to be called for this night, he should jesty, on account of the urgency of affairs VOL. IX.

3 U

When the treaty