his cordial support to the motion, and he collector of the Port of Dublin, one of those wished the house to go still further, and to reported as requiring regulation and reform, come to a resolution against the granting of had been granted in reversion two deep, and any office for life, not usually so granted. consequently could not be touched by the If any thing of that kind had been done, or late bill for the retrenchment, reform, and was in contemplation, he thought it highly regulation of offices in Ireland, though it had proper for the house to interfere, and to pre- twice fallen vacant within the year, and vent it, by expressing its decided disapproba-though it was one of those that most parti, tion. (Hear! hear! from many parts of cularly required reform and regulation. the house, but from the Treasury Benches in particular.)

Mr. Johnstone approved of the motion, which was perfectly consistent with the principles on which his hon. friend (Mr. Bankes) had always acted, and he thought it was a happy omen of what might be expected from the exertions of the committee of which he was chairman. He could not, however, think a mere unauthenticated ru mour a sufficient justification for what had been said of an hon. and learned gent. not now present, the whole tenor of whose life had shewn his preference of public principle to private advantage. He could not help observing too, that those who had been most clamorous in cheering the reflections cast on the hon. and learned gentlemen, were members of a family which was loaded with. wealth derived from public sinecures. He wished, with the hon. gent, on the floor, that the resolution now before the house had been adopted 40 years ago, and then that family would not now be drawing £60,000 a year from the labour of the public. But however eager they had hitherto been for places and pensions, he was glad that at last they had found it expedient to change their tone.

Mr. Plumer (of Hertford) rose and said: I wish, sir, that this measure had been brought forward 40 years ago. This has been hitherto my sincere desire; and I, therefore, give the motion now made my most hearty assent. Having said thus much upon the measure itself, I cannot help embracing this opportunity of paying a tribute of applause to the present administration (I say present, upon the supposition that they are still in office), as I really think they have shewn every disposition to benefit the country by their judicious measures, and their avoiding the practice of former administrations, of granting reversions. Upon this occasion, too, I have another observation to make, which is this: in coming down to the house this day, I have heard a report, which I am very sorry to hear; I have heard, sir, that the new government which is now forming, or to be formed, have agreed to give to an hon. and learned member of this house (aliuding to Mr. Perceval, who was not then in the house) an appointment to the Duchy of Lancaster for life, in order to tempt that gentleman to take a place in the Mr. Plumer, in explanation, allowed that new government. Upon this, I may ob- the mere rumour of the day was not a suffi serve, that if men of great abilities are not cient ground for calling the attention of the satisfied with the rewards attached to the si- house to any thing: but after the allusion tuations which his majesty chooses to appoint made by the noble lord opposite, he thought them to hold in the government of their coun⚫ himself justified in the observations he had. try, if they do not think the usual compensation offered. As to the rest of what had fallen sufficient, they ought not to accept of office from the hon. gent. it did not touch him, at all. I do, however, at all events, enter He was not one of the family which was my protest most solemnly against the mea-loaded with wealth derived from the public. sure of giving a man a situation for life, in order to entice him to occupy another, which may be more fleeting and temporary, (Loud cries of hear! hear!)

Sir John Newport wished this resolution had been adopted a year sooner. The house would not then be in the situation in which it now was, with respect to some of the Irish offices which had been reported as proper, some to be abolished, and some to be reformed, and which could not be touched in either way, on account of the interests of the reversioners. The office of customer and

If the report was unfounded, what he had said could do no harm if the report was true, what he had said might do much good.

Lord Henry Petty, though he approved of the present motion, rose not so much for the purpose of expressing that approbation, as with a view to apologize to the house for not having brought forward the subject himself. He entertained the same opinion with the committee some time ago, and intended to have made a similar motion, and for that purpose had moved for an account of the offices granted in reversion, which was now

on the table. He had, he believed, given no | been brought forward with a view to recent notice of his intention, but he had only not and present circumstances, he begged leave proposed the bill before, as he had not been to inform that hon. general and the house, aware of any immediate necessity for it. He that the subject, respecting the grant of had assurances on the subject, and in favour places in reversion, had been the first to of his view of it, from the noble duke at the which the attention of the committee had head of affairs in Ireland, and from the no- been directed. It had been several times ble lord here too, to whom the hon. gent. under discussion, and the last time their at(Mr Johnstone) had alluded. He had with tention had been called to it, it was warmly singular propriety adverted to that noble lord supported by an hon. gent. who was likely to in the language of reproach on that day, have a place under the new arrangement. when it was well known that he had power The insinuation, that this resolution was into grant a considerable office in reversion, tended as a restriction on the persons inand ye that the only use he made of it was cluded in the new arrangement, appeared to to abstain from exercising a privilege which him extraordinary, as coming from an hon. had been used by every one who preceded gent. professing himself the friend of those him. That noble lord had already laid members. down in practice what it was now proposed to lay down in theory, and therefore the hon. gent's. allusion was peculiarly well timed. When he approved of the resolutions now moved, he ought to recollect that Lord Grenville had already acted upon the principle. It was not therefore by those who followed the practice of granting offices in reversion, that the resolution was loudly approved of, notwithstanding the hon. gent's. insinuation, but by those who abstained

from it.

Mr. Henry Martin (of Kinsale) said, he so fully coincided in the propriety of the resolution now before the house, and felt it so necessary to counteract a system so mischievous as that which had been alluded to this night, that he should now give notice, that he would to-morrow move an humble address to his majesty, praying, that he would be graciously pleased not to grant any place in the duchy of Lancaster, or elsewhere, for life, which had hitherto been usually held by the possessors during his majesty's pleasure. (Hear! hear! from all parts of the house.)

General Gascoyne, in explanation, disclaimed any intention to throw any imputation whatever upon the committee. He had only said, that the manner in which the resolution had been brought forward and argued, excited in his mind a suspicion that it was intended as a restriction on the new arrangement.

Mr. Sheridan observed that the hon. general certainly had not thrown, by his speech, any censure upon the measure now proposed; but he had thrown a very severe imputation upon his friends in the new administration; and one for which he believed at least, they would be very little obliged to the zeal of the hon. general. For his own part, though the new ministers were about to occupy those places from which himself and his colleagues must shortly retreat, yet he had so little of political animosity towards them, that he was unwilling to impute to them any such intentions as those which the zeal of the hon. general this night bespoke. He hoped they were actuated by stronger motives for accession to power, than those of bargaining and buying their way into of General Gascoyne disapproved of the fice. The hon. general's reasonings amountbringing forward this resolution at present; ed to this: "If you attempt to carry a resobecause he thought it looked very suspicious,lution of this sort, you will throw the and had the appearance of being intended to strongest impediment in the way of forming restrict the new government. In the absence a new and virtuous administration, to sucof all those, who, according to report, were ceed the wicked and corrupt one just turned to have a share in that government, it was out of office: you will paralize the vigour not proper to press it. No notice had been of their exertions: you will cripple the maggiven of it, that must necessarily have reach-nitude of their plans, if you prevent them ed them. At all events, though it should from taking, or granting lucrative places in pass at present, that must not be considered reversion, or for life, in addition to those as a pledge to support the bill. they are to hold during the king's pleasure,

Mr. Horner, as a member of the commit-in remuneration for their great services and tee, felt himself called upon to say a few words on the present occasion. As the hon. general had insinuated that this motion had

splendid talents." This, however, was a doctrine to which he could not subscribe, and a kind of support from the hon. general, which

he believed, would not be very grateful to his friends. Some allusion had been made in the course of this discussion, to certain reversions held by a distinguished family, several branches of which formed parts of the present administra ion; but he could see no analogy between the cases alluded to, and those now in contemplation of the house; between reversions during pleasure, enjoyed for services long rendered to the state, and reversions and places for life, to be granted in the first instance before any service whatever was rendered, and given as a kind of bounty to entice a placeman to enlist for a high of fice, to which also a high salary was to be attached. This was indeed a novel mode of recruiting an administration. But whenever the new ministers should appear in their places, he hoped the hon. general would give them a very different support from the kind of observations he had this day pointed against them.

heretofore held during pleasure, should be conferred for life, and that too at the mere will of the crown, in order, as rumour stated, to induce a man to accept another office during pleasure. With regard to the noble family alluded to by the hon gent as holding places of considerable profit, did the hon. gent. mean to assert that the holding places of profit by public men was inconsistent with the purity of public character? If the hon. gent. did mean that, such a sentiment must be heard with peculiar surprise from such a quarter, after the panegyric which the hon. gent. had thought proper to pronounce upon the public spirit and patriotism of his right hon. friend. For that hon. gent. must know that one of the highest places of profit in the country was granted in reversion to a person of the name of Perceval; and again in reversion to another person of the same name. The hon. gent. expressed his heartfelt approbation of the measure, which the motion before the house had in view, and in concurrence with the hon. member, his regret that such a measure had not been introduced forty years ago. In alluding to the hon. mover, he could not help expressing his surprise, that any man who had the least opportunity of appreciating the character of that hon. gent. could suppose him capable of binding himself to the pur

have heard with astonishment the imputation which an hon. gent. on the other side had thought proper to throw out. The hon.

Mr. Huskisson was sure that the character and principles of his hon. friend, who had brought forward the resolution, would secure him from the imputation of having been actuated by party motives. From what he had learned in conversation with other members of the committee, he was persuaded that they were all agreed that no places should be granted henceforth in reversion. As to the propriety of any arrange-poses of any party. The house indeed must ments with a view to induce individuals to accept of office, he believed that the first measure of the administration then in office, with a view to enable a noble lord (Gren-member concluded with declaring his cordial ville), for whom he felt a very sincere respect, was a sufficient proof that such an arrangement was not very extraordinary. As to the new administration, he knew nothing more of it, than he was enabled to collect from the rumours afloat, and he did not believe that any arrangement had been yet submitted for the approbation of the highest authority in the state.

Mr. Whitbread observed, that without giving any opinion upon the merits of the case referred to by the hon. gent. (Mr. Johnstone), he had no hesitation in asserting that there was a material difference between that case and the one more particularly alJuded to, in the course of this debate. For in the one, the object was to enable a man to hold an office which was conferred upon him for life, in conjunction with one to which he was appointed during pleasure, and for that purpose the sanction of parliament was applied for, and obtained; while in the other the proposition was, that an office

concurrence in the motion before the house, against which he had not heard a single argument, and his anxious wish for the success of the motion of which his hon. friend (Mr. Martin) had given notice for the next day.

Mr. Huskisson in explanation stated, that he did not mean to assert a compiete analogy between the case of the noble lord alluded to (lord Grenville) and that which appeared to be so much in view in the present discussion. Probably he merely meant to infer from the former case, that in the contemplation of ministerial arrangements, the nature of an office might be changed by connecting it with one with which it was previously deemed altogether incompatible. To be sure in one case the change could be effected only by the sanction of parliament, whereas in the other it was quite subject to the will of the king.

Mr. Parnell thought that it behoved the house to take peculiar care upon a question of this nature. For, understanding that a

committee, to divide the bill into two, and also of proposing several amendments in that part of it which related to the chambers of the court of session, and to the court of review. With respect to the latter court, some persons had thought that it would be an ad

noble lord (Castlereagh) was likely to hold a | The house having resolved itself into a comleading situation in the new administration,mittee, the noble lord stated his intention of whose conduct in Ireland could not escape moving, pursuant to the instruction of the his recollection, he was fully convinced of the necessity of vigilant precaution. He (Mr. Parnell) had had the honour of a seat in the house of commons in Ireland during the discussions upon the Union, and he remembered that in the first session, when that measure was proposed and lost, two fa-ditional step in the progress of litigation, inmilies of some parliamentary influence stood neuter. But in the following session, under this noble lord's management of reversions, these two families were brought into action, and by such means the union was voted by a small majority. A son of one of these families was, to his knowledge, secured in the reversion of the clerkship of the pells in Ireland, and to a son of the other family he imagined that a reversion of a more serious nature was promised, for the first bi-a more complete adjudication of causes in shopric that became vacant was assigned to him. With these facts in his recollection, and with the prospect now before the house, he thought that every practicable guard against corruption ought to be established.

asmuch as the unsuccessful parties would still appeal to that house, and therefore that the number of appeals to that house would not be lessened. There was one mode, however, he thought, which would materially tend to lessen the number of appeals to that house, namely, to abolish reclaiming petitions in the court of session, and to substitute, instead, appeals to the court of review. This would naturally tend to produce.

the chambers of the court of session, there being no opportunity, as at present, of reexamining their own decisions, whilst there was every reason to believe that that careful adjudication would render appeals less freMr. Johnstone disclaimed any intention to quent. Of one part of the bill he thought assert any thing so absurd, as that the hold- an unfair advantage had been taken out of ing of a public place of profit was incompa- the house, as he never had an idea that the tible with the purity of public character. extraordinary lords to be added to the court He only meant to say, that it afforded him of session should hold their places in any great satisfaction to hear a motion of this na-other manner than like the judges of Engture so loudly applauded by men who were land, during good behaviour. He had no themselves loaded with so much of the pub- objection, if it was thought necessary, to the lic money. It was a good omen, and he introduction of clauses, enacting that the perhoped it would not prove delusive.-The re- sons to be so appointed should have all the solution was then agreed to, and Mr. Bankes, requisite qualifications.-After a few obser Mr. Horner, and Mr. S. Bourne, were ap- servations from lord Eldon, the amendments pointed to prepare and bring in a bill pur- were agreed to. In the progress of the bill, suant thereto. lord Grenville stated that upon further consideration, it had been thought inexpedient to prohibit, altogether, appeals from interlo": cutors; and therefore he proposed to give a power to the court of review to receive ap❤ peals from interlocutors, and also on receiving an appeal from final judgment to call for ' all the interlocutors in the cause. amendment was adopted to this effect, and the first part of the bill, relating to the chambers of the court of session and the court of review, having been separated from the rest, the house resumed, and the report was ordered to be received the next day.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Wednesday, March 25. [MINUTES.]-The royal assent was given by commission to the Slave Trade Abolition bill, the Irish Licence bill, and the Thames Police bill, and two private bills.-Lord Grenville (who sat with his friends on the opposition side of the house), gave notice, that to morrow, on the motion of adjournment for the recess, he should state such explanations as he deemed consistent with his duty to his country and to himself, respecting the circumstances which had led to the present situation of public affairs, and of the country.

[SCOTCH JUDICATURE BILL.]-Lord Grenville moved the order of the day for a committee on the Scotch Judicature bill.

An

Lord Eldon moved for the appointment of a committee to inquire where the judges of the court of session should be placed during their attendance on the house, and to search for precedents, &c. His reason for moving this was, that ihe judges of the court of

Though the Sugar Duty imposed last session Sir John Newport, conscious how little had failed to produce, the other duties had claim he had to occupy the attention of the amply supplied the deficiency. The hon. house at any time, but much less at the pre- bart. here enumerated the proportion in sent, said he should endeavour to make his which each duty had exceeded in produce statements as briefly as possible; nor should the amount calculated. Of the arrears and he have to trouble the committee on the sub- balances due of dead or removed collectors, ject, if it had not been for the circumstance £17,600 had been recovered within the last of his having so great a share in negociating year; but this sum was considerably less the Loan last Monday for Ireland. The hon. than would be recovered in future years, if baronet then briefly stated the different the measures should be persevered in for two items of the Supplies for Ireland, composed or three years. The sum of the arrears apof its separate charges, and its two-seven-peared greater this year than last year, in teenth parts of the joint charge of the empire, which made the whole charge amount to £9,561,218. Part of the loan for Ireland had been contracted for with the English