that an average in the United States would run between $12 and $15 per day throughout all the metal mining industry. Canada pays about the same. But listen to this: Morocco, $1.50 a day; Peru, 50 cents to $2 per day; Guatemala, $1.50 a day; Germany, $1.35 a day. We could find nothing particularly in Mexico that would stabilize their mining wages. It runs all the way from $1 up to probably $8 to $10 and even as high as $12. Mr. Chairman, I really want to unburden my heart and say to you here this morning, this thing is tragic. Chaos exists in the lead and zinc metal mining industry in this country today; and not only that, as I mentioned, fluorspar and other metals. I just want to show you one little chart, and with that I have finished. This chart was prepared for me, and I think it is worth showing. I will just show it on zinc. I hope you can all see it. If you cannot, I will bring it up to you. This should show you exactly what is going on in this country. This was prepared by your own Congressional Library informational source on mining. I had this done for myself. Here you will find the heading of it says, "Mine Production, Imports for Consumption and Wholesale Prices, Monthly, 1948-52." Below is the mine production of zinc. Above are the imports of zine. I wish you would just notice this. This is month by month. Here is 1952 [indicating]. You can see very quickly what has happened to zinc. This chart also shows the price. Here is the price, this line up here, this single line [indicating]. Here comes in this foreign metal. When it reaches its peak, the price drops over 30 percent. Gentlemen, that is the story in a nutshell. I think it is up to this Congress and it is up to us to do something about this, and to do it immediately. Mr. DINGELL. If the gentleman is through, may I inquire, Mr. Chairman? The CHAIRMAN. Does that conclude your statement? Mr. HILL. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. We thank you very much for your appearance and the contribution you have made to the committee. Mr. Dingell will inquire. Mr. DINGELL. I just want to say perhaps the weakest argument that you set forth in behalf of your proposal-and I say that with due deference-is the one about the labor costs, because we know that in the United States our modern mechanized methods and other progressive practices in our mining and other industry far more than offset the difference in the labor cost. There are too many examples of that kind that can be brought forth to make it necessary for me to debate the question, and I cite where sometime before I put a statement into the record on trade agreements from one of the big transportation companies here in this country which showed that despite the fact that the coolie transport in Malaya cost per man per day perhaps 10 cents, and that as to transport by truck in this country, for the truck driver alone was $20 a day or some such high figure, yet despite the difference between the $20 paid the truck driver and the 10 cents paid the coolie. he per-ton mile advantage was on the side of American transportaion. The same thing is true to a great degree in mining and everything Ise we do under our mass production system in the United States. I am not finding fault with you, because I think you made a case, s you generally do, and I have known you for many years to be quarely behind the American mining producer, and more especially he mining industry of Colorado, and I even notice that you tried to rag in sugar beets without mentioning them. I wondered how you ept from mentioning the word "sugar" beets. Mr. HILL. Mr. Chairman. That was not the question, Mr. Dingell, but it is an honor to be here nd to know that you used to live in our great State. You know what mean when I say that we are one of the States that is a typical exmple of what ghost cities are. Mr. DINGELL. For my understanding and helpfulness, I was freuently called Colorado's fifth Congressman from Michigan. Mr. HILL. That is fine. I would like to say a word on wages, Mr. Dingell. If my memory rves me correctly, in several of our meetings, and by several people, e question of wages was raised, and in every instance no one favored itting of the wages. That was interesting to me. There are two things that I think we must think about in regard to reign production. One is that the day that the foreign mine operated ithout new and up-to-date machinery has just about passed. Your utomobile manufacturing firm is a typical example, because with a orldwide sales organization, they are covering the whole earth. The same is true of mining machinery. They are exporting and roviding for all these foreign countries the finest and most up-to-date pe of mining equipment and machinery in every spot where the ming industry or, shall I say, the production appears to have any ossibilities. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Simpson will inquire. Mr. SIMPSON. Mr. Hill, in connection with the hearing that you eld as chairman of the Select Committee on Small Business, have on any opinion as to the position the Bureau of Mines or those in Govrnment charged directly with mining have with respect to protection or this industry? Mr. HILL. I think in Denver only did I find any testimony from he Bureau of Mines, and that testimony had to do with loaning oney to keep the mines operating. To me, that is not the question t all. I think the Bureau of Mines might well do some real and onest-to-god investigating of the mining conditions in this country. Mr. SIMPSON. That is all. The CHAIRMAN. Anything further? Mr. Mason will inquire. Mr. MASON. Mr. Congressman, for a gentleman who represents an gricultural district, you have made a very convincing and effective rgument for the mining industry, and you have put not only logic nto it, but you have put your heart into it. So you should repreent the whole State of Colorado, which includes the mining industry. That is all, Mr. Chairman. Mr. HILL. Let me say this, Mr. Chairman, if you will: I do have some mining counties. I have three counties-Boulder, Gilpin, and Clear Creek-that are clearly mining counties. I might say to you, Mr. Mason, in all respect, in Colorado some southerner-I do not see any here this morning-by the name of Gregory slipped out there in about 1860 and discovered the first paying gold mine in my district. That was at Blackhawk, near Central City, Colo., in my district. There we have what we call the richest mile square of gold ore ever taken out of the earth. I am one of these farmers that lives down on the plains, who is just as convinced as I can be that there are hundreds of millions of dollars yet in those hills in the west end of my district. Mr. MASON. That square mile of gold-producing mineral produced the gold that we now have in Fort Knox, all in concentrated form! Mr. HILL. Probably we did. We claim it, anyway. The CHAIRMAN. Any further questions? We thank you, sir, for your very fine presentation here. The CHAIRMAN. The next witness will be the Honorable John J. Rhodes, of Arizona. We are very happy to have you here, sir. Mr. RHODES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am very happy to be here. The CHAIRMAN. Will you give your name for the record, and t'e capacity in which you appear? STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN J. RHODES, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARIZONA Mr. RHODES. My name is John J. Rhodes. I am Congressman Rhodes, representing the First District of the State of Arizona I would like to thank you, Mr. Chairman and the members of the committee, for this opportunity to appear in behalf of the lead and zinc provisions of the Simpson bill. Mr. Chairman, as a member of the Interior and Insular Affairs Committee, I was privileged in the month of February to atter the National Lead and Zinc Conference in Denver. I would like to tell the committee a little about the conference, the purposes, and the men who were there. In the first place, the conference was called primarily on account of the depressed condition of the lead and zinc industry. I was privileged to sit in on some of the deliberations of the conference, and, believe me, these gentlemen worked very hard and very dilgently to work out their own solution. The solution which they recommended is embodied in the Simpson bill. There was a great temptation on the part of some of the men bers of the industry to take the old line and ask for a subsidy. The majority of the industry said they did not care to do that. Ther felt that the way to handle his situation was to remove them fre the cutthroat competition which they had suffered from the import tion of foreign metals. I was told at this meeting, and I believe that the main trou with the lead and zinc industry is caused by two things: One hem was the dumping of stockpiled metal which had been stockoiled in other countries and which presumably was dumped on our narket at a loss in order to acquire dollars. The second reason was Decause The CHAIRMAN. Pardon me right there. You have made a strong oint on that dumping. There is not any question but that we did tockpile these countries, and then when they felt they did not need t, they threw it back on our market. Mr. RHODES. That is my information, Mr. Chairman, and that I elieve. The CHAIRMAN. Please continue. Mr. RHODES. The second matter, of course, is the matter of wages nd standards of living in other countries where these particular minrals are produced. I think that we have a question here, not only nvolving an industry, not only involving the owners of mines, but e have a question involving the living standards of American 7orkers. Certainly if the big element in any production, that of vages, is not considered, then in other countries perhaps you can prouce this metal cheaper than we can here. If that is the situation, nd we want that to be the situation, then automatically our living tandard goes down. I do not think that the members of this committee or the Members f this Congress want that to happen. I was very much interested in the questions of Mr. Dingell, my disinguished colleague on the committee, because I think the thing that bothering him is the thing that would be bothering me if I were itting on the committee. In other words, viewing this matter obectively, is it a good economic move to pass the provisions of the Simpson bill relating to lead and zinc? I think, personally that it is. There are several ways to help a ick industry. One of them is by the use of a tariff. Zinc, to take the one metal as an example, is chronically in short upply in this country. Under the best conditions we produce about wo-thirds of our zinc demand. Therefore, Mr. Dingell's point as to what would happen in the event that foreign supply was cut off is very vell taken. I would like to state, however, that we have in the past protected oreign production in materials which are in short supply, and we have done it in a way which I do not particularly like, but in a way which I think has been effective. For instance, the DMPA now has contracts, which I am told will ast for 4 years, for the purchase of foreign zinc at 1912 cents per ound. Certainly that is enough of a subsidy to provide for any forign production. Copper, as most of you know, has a ceiling in the Unitd States of 42 cents. We buy Chilean copper for 35 cents, because that metal, again, is in short supply. Therefore, you have a situation in a metal which is in short supply where you actually have 2 prices: 1 a domestic price and 1 a foreign orice. I think that is a very bad situation, perhaps, for the domestic producer; but as far as industry is concerned, industry needs the metal, so we go and get it where we can get it. 32604-53-95 To me, the questions involved here boils down to these: Is this industry worth saving? I think that it is. I think that you all remember the wartime days when zinc was in very short supply, was very acute. We were trying to get people to produce zinc in any that we could allow them to do so; also lead. war With the world situation as it is today, certainly zinc is one of thei required elements in our preparedness campaign. The second question is: Do we wish to protect the standard of American workers? To me, there is no answer to that one but "Yes." If you go along with me and answer the first two questions "Yes," then the next question is: Is this the way to do it? Personally, I abhor subsidies. I do not think this is a subsidy. I believe this is the American way to approach this problem, to save this industry, and to keep the standard of American industry and American workingmen as it is today. I thank you, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. We thank you for your very fine presentation to the committee. Are there any questions? The Chair hears none. Thank you very much. The next witness is Mr. Otto Herres, chairman, National Lead and Zinc Committee, representing practically all of the lead and zinc producers of the United States. Mr. Herres, I have a letter addressed to me here, and it has a large number of signatures of Members of Congress: I am enclosing a resolution adopted by the Committee on Interior and In sular Affairs relating to H. R. 4294. If at all possible, I would like to make it a part of the record. I will not appear in person, as I am sure the industry will be properly represented. Thanking you for calling this to my attention. A. L. MILLER, M. C., Fourth District, Nebraska. Without objection, I would like to insert this in the record at this point. (The letter and resolution referred to follow :) Hon. DANIEL A. REED, CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES, HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, Washington, D. C., April 29, 1953. Chairman, Committee on Ways and Means, House of Representatives, Washington, D. C. MY DEAR COLLEAGUE: I am enclosing a resolution adopted by the Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs relating to H. R. 4294. If at all possible, I would like to make it a part of the record. I will not appear in person, as I am sure the industry will be properly represented. Thank you for calling this to my attention. Sincerely yours, A. L. MILLER, M. C., Fourth District, Nebraska. RESOLUTION OF THE COMMITTEE ON INTERIOR AND INSULAR AFFAIRS PRESENTED TO THE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE, HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Whereas the base metals mining industry of the United States has bee adversely affected by abnormal importations of lead and zinc from countries which production costs are much lower than those which prevail in the Unite States under American standards; and Whereas the domestic lead and zinc mining industry is being seriously dangered by such imports, and, as a result, the many sections dependent on the |