H. OF R.] Reduction of Postage. as that method of raising the public revenues, whose burdens were most equally diffused and least felt. Why, the cost of that portion of the Post Office establishment, which was for the direct service of the public, or for the accommodation of individuals, who do not themselves pay for it, should not be defrayed as all other public establishments are-why it should be charged to a limited class of private citizens, who are not otherwise benefited than the rest of the community, I cannot conceive; nor has any gentleman, by any plain and common sense argument, attempted to show. The gentleman from Georgia (Mr. WILDE) had said that it was unseasonable to press a measure of this kind at a moment like this, and that, in its operation, it would interfere with a great matter which the House had in hand. On the contrary, I hold it is precisely the right time for the introduction of the proposition, and, instead of interfering with the matter to which the gentleman alludes, I take it to be fairly part and parcel of that matter, and expressly referred to the Committee of Ways and Means, of which the gentleman is a member, as one of the points alluded to in the message at the opening of the session. The President says: 66 The subject of the revenue is earnestly recommended to the consideration of Congress, in hope that the combined wisdom of the Representatives of the people will devise such means of effecting that salutary object, as may remove those burdens which shall be found to fall unequally upon any." [JANUARY, 1833. cut off, and it becomes necessary to resort to direct taxation, the Post Office will be among the first objects resorted to. In the last war the rates of postage were doubled. Foreseeing such an increase of postage hereafter, as the possible result of my proposition, the gentleinan said my plan tended to tax intelligence and information for the use of the treasury. say, on the contrary, I wish to prevent intelligence and information being taxed to carry on the various branches of the public service; and it is a very insufficient reason for refusing to take off the tax now that you may have to put it on again hereafter. Let us take it off now that we can, and keep it off as long as we can; it will be time enough to put it on again when we must. I Mr. HOFFMAN observed, in reply, that he had remarked, on a former day, when this subject had been under discussion, that, if the gentleman had submitted his resolution without the accompanying observations, it would probably have passed in silence, as containing some proper suggestions to the Post Office Committee. But the gentleman had thought proper to favor the House with his views and reasons for introducing it, from which it had appeared that the reasonings on which the resolution was founded, were wholly fallacious, and the purpose of its introduction very different from what might be gathered from the tenor of the resolution itself. The gentleman's whole argument, as it has now been put, lay in this fact that the transmission of intelligence among the people of the Union was charged with the expense of the transmisNow, sir, I have proved that the burden of sion also of the public documents, especially the Post Office establishment falls very une- those printed and circulated by order of the two qually, and the gentleman refuses to relieve Houses of Congress. This might be a very those oppressed by it, because he has in hand a good argument in favor of a reduction of the general plan for relieving those who suffer under franking privilege; but for nothing else. If it what they think unequal taxation. I maintain was true that the two Houses were in the habit that this Post Office tax, the heaviest single tax of franking more than they ought to do, it was which the people pay, amounting to two and a easy to remedy the evil, by curtailing the power. half millions annually, is demonstrably unequal Confine the franking privilege to the officers of in its apportionment. All the other taxes in Government, or limit it in point of time. The the country are levied on consumption, and argument might avail against the people's that is as near an approach to equality as can reading so much, or against the Houses frankbe made. The postage tax, instead of inter- ing so much, or in favor of their franking more fering with a plan for removing unequal taxa-selectly; but it was no argument for the reduction, is in reality the only burden with which I am acquainted, which falls unequally on any of the people. Sixty or seventy tons of franked documents is, literally as well as financially, an enormous burden to throw on a single class of the community; to say nothing of the unproductive routes, the cost of which is also cast on the same individuals. The gentleman from New York (Mr. HOFFMAN) had said that if the Post Office were not thrown on the treasury, the time would come when the treasury would make drafts on the Post Office; if we did not keep the Post Office and treasury distinct, whenever the latter ran low the government would resort to postage as a source of revenue. Sir, that will be done at any rate. Whenever the ordinary sources of public income, derived from the customs, are tion of the rates of postage. Still less was it any reason why the expenses of the Post Office should be charged upon the treasury. Did not the treasury already contribute largely to the expense of that department? The legislation of the House, while occupied in examining and passing upon proposed mail routes, was paid for out of the treasury. A large share of the action of the department itself was sustained from the same source. All the salaries of the numerous officers of the establishment came out of the treasury, and he had no doubt, if the matter were fully investigated, it would appear that a large part of the charges attending the transmission of the forty tons of documents, of which the gentleman had spoken, came from the same place. But, allowing the burden to be as unequal as ! JANUARY, 1833.] Reduction of Postage-Tribunal for Claims-Reduction of the Tariff. the gentleman had represented it to be, his own proposition would render it still more unequal. Those who paid now were persons who derived at least some advantages from the transmission of the mail; but those whom the gentleman wished to compel to pay, were persons who were almost entirely unconnected with it; who seldom sent, and as seldom received letters by mail at all. THURSDAY, January 3. Reduction of Postage. The House then resumed the consideration of the resolution submitted on a preceding day by Mr. EVERETT, of Massachusetts, instructing the Committee on Post Offices and Post Roads to bring in a bill reducing the rates of postage. Mr. CAMBRELENG said that he had an amendment to propose, which might, perhaps, meet the approbation of the gentleman who offered the original resolution, and of the House also; it was simply to provide that the efficiency of the Post Office should not be impaired, nor its ability to sustain itself diminished. Mr. C. then offered the amendment. [H. OF R. of dollars, might be substantiated against the United States, were it allowable to sue the national sovereign; but, since this could not be allowed, they must be settled by Congress, and the expense of so doing would not amount to less than three millions of dollars. The resolution was agreed to. Reduction of the Tariff-Mr. Verplanck's Bill. On motion of Mr. VERPLANCK, the intervening orders were postponed, and the House went into Committee of the Whole, Mr. WAYNE in the chair, and, by a vote of 94 to 78, took up the bill "to reduce and otherwise alter the duties on imports." [The bill omitted. Its character and effect will be well understood from the debates, and especially from the opening speech of the Chairman of the Committee of Ways and Means, (Mr. Julian Verplanck, of New York, reporter of the bill, and its parliamentary expounder to the House,) showing that it would make a reduction of $13,000,000 on the tariff of 1828, and still yield $19,500,000, which, with $3,000,000 from other sources, would make Mr. EVERETT regretted that there should be $22,000,000—which would be $7,000,000 more than any objection to a resolution of inquiry going to the Government would require, the public debt the Post Office Committee. The character of being paid. He estimated $13,000,000 as the that committee was, he should have thought, a sufficient guarantee that nothing injurious to necessary current expenses of the Government; the public interest could be expected at their and $15,000,000 as the maximum amount that hands. He was of opinion that the resolution ought to be raised to meet extraordinaries and should be referred without the restrictions im- contingencies; so that a further reduction of posed by the amendment; but, rather than it $7,000,000 might be made after the little remainshould be rejected, he would vote for the reso-ing fragment of the public debt should be extinlation with the addition of the amendment. Mr. POLK said that, as he could not perceive any necessity for acting on either the original proposition or the modification suggested by his friend from New York (Mr. CAMBRELENG), he should move to lay the resolution and amendment on the table. On this motion Mr. EVERETT demanded the yeas and nays; which being taken, stood-Yeas 89, Nays 89. The CHAIR gave the casting vote in the affirmative; so the resolution was laid on the table. Tribunal for Claims. Mr. HOGAN moved the following resolution: Resolved, That the Committee on the Judiciary be instructed to inquire and report on the expediency of establishing a judicial tribunal, which shall take cognizance of all claims and demands of individuals on the Government of the United States, and decide on the validity thereof, in accordance with the principles of equity and law, and established rules of evidence. Mr. H. accompanied his motion by some remarks on the great number of private bills on the calendar of the House; the consumption of time annually occasioned by discussing them, and the small degree of attention usually bestowed by a vast majority of the House on their discussion. He stated, as his opinion, that private individual claims for more than a million quished.] On motion of Mr. VERPLANCK, the bill was committed to a Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union. Mr. VERPLANCK said that he rose to invite the attention of the committee to the examination of the details of the bill now before them, and for that purpose only. It was true, that this was a bill which might serve as an occasion for expatiating upon topics that always awakened much interest. The great question of constitutional right might be argued. The question of the incidence or bearing of taxation, together with other not less important theories of political economy, might be now discussed But, for myself, I feel that after the years during which Congress, and public men elsewhere, as well as the press, have discussed these points, and especially after the ample discussion which has taken place during the present Congress, it would be presumption for me to think that I could now contribute any new general views that would enlighten the House or the nation. In making these remarks, I speak not only my own unfeigned opinion, but as I am fully authorized, that of those of my colleagues on the Committee of Ways and Means, who have joined with me in reporting this bill. As members of this House, we have some of Reduction of the Tariff-Mr. Verplanck's Bill. us, on this floor, and all of us in some way or The last war left the nation laboring under a Of this sum 10,000,000 dollars always, but, of late, a much larger proportion, has been devoted to the payment of the interest and principal of the public debt. At last that debt has been extinguished. The manner in which those burdens were distributed under former laws, have been, heretofore, a subject of complaint and remonstrance. I do not propose to inquire into the wisdom or justice of those laws. The debt has been extinguished by them; let us be grateful for the past. We are now to enter upon another, an honorable and gratifying duty, the reduction of the taxes of the people-the alleviation of the public burdens. A Here Mr. V. gave a brief view of the financial (JANUARY, 1833. collisions with foreign powers, short of permanent warfare. We are not, therefore, justifiable, in raising more than 15,000,000 dollars as a permanent revenue. In other words, at least 13,000,000 dollars of the revenue that would have been collected under the tariff system of 1828, may now be dispensed with; and, in years of great importation, a much larger sum. The act of last summer removed a large portion of this excess; yet taking the importation of the last year, as a standard, the revenues derived from that source, if calculated according to the act of 1832, would produce 19,500,000, and with the other sources of revenue, an income of 22,000,000 dollars. This is, a least, seven millions above the wants of the treasury. It was this excess of public burdens which the Committee of Ways and Means have felt it to be their duty now to call upon Congress to reduce. The task of regulating the rate and manner of that reduction was neither easy nor enviable. We all must know that large sections of the country throughout, as well as various classes of the community in every section of the country, have complained, or remonstrated against the unequal operation of the public burdens. It is certain, too, that, under any plan of finance whatsoever, of long duration, various interests must grow up, which cannot but be subject to great injury, from a change even for a better, and less onerous system. The committee have felt all these difficulties. They have approached the subject not with rashness or presumption, but with humility. They have endeavored to profit by the lights of long experience, and of former legislation. Whatever may be the defects of their bill, they confidently claim for themselves the merit of honest and sincere intention. They trust that no local or personal interests, and certainly no views or feelings of party politics, have been suffered to influence them. They have desired and endeavored to conduct the deliberations of their committee-room in the spirit of justice, conciliation, and of peace; and it is in this spirit that they now invite this body to the examination of the bill before them. WEDNESDAY, January 9. The House having again gone into Committee of the Whole and resumed the consideration of the bill to reduce and otherwise alter the duties on imports: Mr. HUNTINGTON, of Connecticut, said: The Committee of Ways and Means had presented this bill, as containing provisions to insure the revenue from the customs, which, with that from other sources, would be sufficient for the wants of an economical, but efficient Government. The principle which formed the basis of the bill was that the Government would require but fifteen millions of dollars for its annual expenditure; of which twelve millions and a half were to be raised from the customs, JANUARY, 1833.] Reduction of the Tariff-Mr. Verplanck's Bill. [H. OF R. and two millions and a half from the public | a delay of two years would be no better than lands. It had been stated by the committee, in their report, that they considered it their duty to present to the House a bill which should be gradual in its operation on the existing establishments of the country. In this respect the committee had expressed the same sentiments which were contained in the Executive message, and in the report from the Treasury Department. The report uses the following language: "It has been the wish of the committee to guard against a sudden fluctuation of the price of goods, whether in the hands of the merchant, the retailer, or the manufacturer. With this view, they have made the reduction upon the more important protected articles, gradual and progressive." The President, in alluding to the subject, says: "If, upon the investigation it shall be found, as it is believed it will be, that the legislative protection granted to any particular interest, is greater than is indispensably requisite," (for the objects previously specified, )" I recommend that it be gradually diminished, and that, as far as may be consistent with these objects, the whole scheme of duties be reduced to the revenue standard, as soon as a just regard to the faith of the Government, and to the preservation of the large capital invested in establishments of domestic industry, will permit." "Large interests have grown up, under the implied pledge of our national legislation, which it would seem a violation of public faith suddenly to abandon." The Secretary of the Treasury, in recommending a reduction of the revenue, says: "The necessity of adopting the proposed changes to the safety of existing establishments, raised up under the auspices of past legislation, and deeply involving the interests of large portions of the Union, is not less imperious in the further changes which may be deemed expedient." Such had been the sentiments always avowed by those who believed that the protective system ought to be abandoned. But how does the bill correspond with these opinions and views thus expressed? Was that a gradual reduction of the protected duties, which annihilated the whole in two years? Was this the "gradual diminution" of which the President and the Secretary of the Treasury had spoken? Did the Committee of Ways and Means really suppose that within two years the industry of this country could adapt itself to the provisions of such a bill as that now reported? Did not every man, at all conversant with th practical operation of the existing system, know that to call this a gradua. reduction, was a perversion of the terms? Was two years a period in which the industry of the country could change its entire direction, and resort to new channels? or in which the people could resort to new and untried employments for their livelihood? No, for almost all beneficial purposes connected with the protection of interests, which had grown up under the faith of the legislation of Congress, the immediate operation of the bill on the whole amount of duties proposed to be reduced, sweeping them away at a blow. He would tell the committee all the good that such a delay would occasion: it allowed those who had on hand extensive stocks, time to put that stock into a manufactured form for sale. But as to those who were the real working men of the country, the bill operated to throw them completely out of employment, without time to prepare themselves for such a radical change. He repeated the position (and he did so with all respect for the committee who had introduced the bill) that, to profess the principle of gradual reduction, and, at the same time to cut down the whole protective system within two years, was nothing but mockery. Such a bill was substantially no better than an instantaneous abolition of the whole amount of protective duties; and this was one feature of the bill which rendered it so peculiarly obnoxious to those whose interests he more immediately represented on that floor. But, whether gradual in its operation or not, whether immediate or more remote, whether carrying out the recommendations of those opposed to the whole system or not, it was reported as a bill calculated to bring down the revenue of the country so as 66 to meet the exigencies of an economical but efficient adminis tration." THURSDAY, January 10. The Tariff—Mr. Verplanck's Bill. The House then went into Committee of the Whole on the State of the Union, upon the bill to reduce and otherwise alter the duties on imports-Mr. WAYNE in the chair. Mr. INGERSOLL, of Connecticut, rose and said that the peculiar situation in which, as one of the Committee of Ways and Means, it had been his fortune, perhaps misfortune, to be placed, seemed to require that he should, in this early stage of the debate, give the reasons why he had not been able to assent to the present bill, and the report which accompanies it. This is due to myself (said Mr. I.) no less than to my highly respected associates of the committee, from whom I have been obliged to differ. As was said on a former occasion, and in reference to another report, by the gentleman (Mr. VERPLANCK) who, as chairman of the committee, reported this bill, my position in regard to it, is singular and solitary." Yes, I say it more in sorrow than in anger, it is solitary indeed. What would be the precise effect of this measure, if adopted, on the revenue of the country, no one could with safety predict. But, as I wish to avoid as much as possible all debatable grounds, I shall take it for granted, for the purpose of this inquiry at least, that the committee are right in saying that the receipts from the customs, under their bill, would be reduced to something over thirteen millions of H. OF R.] Reduction of the Tariff-Mr. Verplanck's Bill. dollars. We are asked to make arrangements now for large reductions, because, in the opinion of the committee, our present receipts, unless we promptly interpose, will roll up and retain a dangerous surplus in the treasury, a needless burden upon the people, a tax falling directly or indirectly upon the land and labor of the country, certainly injurious in its effects, and probably unequal, enriching the treasury only to divide and distract our public councils, by tempting to expenditures of doubtful constitutional right or inconsistent with the simplicity of republican institutions, staining their purity, and hazarding their permanency." If, Mr. Chairman, there is one individual on this floor who is in favor of accumulating such a surplus in the treasury, for the pleasure of scrambling for the spoils, I wish it to be distinctly understood that it is not the humble individual who now addresses you. No, sir; the sentiments held by me on that subject, were embodied in a report presented at the last session, and which was also signed by my friend from Pennsylvania, (Mr. GILMORE,) and, by the principles there expressed, I shall steadfastly abide, let those principles lead me where they may. There are some points, then, in which I am happy to agree with the other members of the committee. I agree with them that we should not accumulate a useless surplus in the public treasury; and that, at a proper time, and in a proper manner, the revenues should be adapted to the strict wants of the Government, if found to exceed those wants. More than this, it may be admitted that, after the payment of our debts, fifteen millions, the sum estimated by the Secretary of the Treasury, and sanctioned by my associates of the committee, should be, in ordinary times, sufficient to meet the current expenses. [JANUARY, 1833. papers, but have never been able to find it, except in the imagination, for the last quarter of a century. I remember reading about it as far back as the administration of Mr. Jefferson; the evil had been anticipated at that day, and Congress had been called upon to devise some plan for disposing of it. The profound statesman (Mr. Jefferson) then at the head of the Government, advised Congress, that when a surplus should really be found in the treasury, it should be expended in works of internal improvement, either under the present constitutional powers, or under such new grants as might be imparted to the federal compact. But we have grown wiser than Mr. Jefferson, or think we have. No one is now so unfashionable as to propose that the surplus revenues should be so used; in our estimate of fifteen millions we do not mean to have any of it distributed in that way. And lest we should happen to have an excess, we are perplexed as to the mode of avoiding it. It was the burden of complaint at the last session; it met us during the recess, in staring capitals, in the publications of the day; and since we have been here this winter, it has been rung and echoed in our ears, in all the sameness of the cuckoo's note-" surplus-surplus-surplus ! Gentlemen will insist upon it that the body politic is in danger of immediate death from plethory, and the political doctors who gather around in consultation, instead of tapping a vein, are for cutting the arteries. Let me advise them to stay their hand before they use the knife thus freely. Mr. CRAWFORD said: What does the bill of the honorable Chairman of the Committee of Ways and Means (Mr. VERPLANCK) propose ? To reduce the duties on the importation of foreign merchandise generally, to the scale of 1816, and, in some instances, below it. I desire the members of this committee to pause, and reflect. The most extensive operation of this Government is upon property, and the wider the range of our laws, the more studious, the more cautious should we be to do no act which may be detrimental to the great interests committed to our charge. We are placed here as trustees, to the extent of the powers confided, whose solemn duty it is to advance, by all the means we have, the prosperity of this nation; so to shape the action of the Government that the citizen may receive no injury, and that, while we do justice to all, we sacrifice none. Will we be fulfilling this high trust by rendering valueless two hundred and fifty to three hun Having gone thus far with the other members of the committee, we have now reached the point at which I am sorry to part with them. In saying, as I do, that this is not the proper time to change the established revenue system of the country, I have no allusion to what is taking place elsewhere. I come to this part of the subject, in the way in which it was put to me, as a strictly financial, not a political question. This is not the proper time, because you will, in my opinion, have need for every dollar you will receive under the present system of duties for the two years to come, at least. In the report put forth, it is taken for granted that now is the time, and now the hour, most fit and proper to reduce the treas-dred millions of property? for at no less sum ury receipts; and this the committee are at- are the manufacturing establishments of this tempting to accomplish by their bill, lest the country computed. Sir, I know of no measure dreaded surplus should overtake us, if we delay more likely to be extensively ruinous-irrepait a little longer. This is not the first time that rably ruinous-to our great and leading interwe have heard about "a surplus in the treasury, ests, running through all the ramifications of and the embarrassments it might produce in our society. If you break down a large establishdevising ways and means to get rid of it. Why,ment of iron, or wool, or cotton, you prostrate sir, I have heard about it, and read about it, not its owner alone, but you reach every meever since I was old enough to read the news-chanic, every farmer, every laborer, in his |