tion of the reasons which had induced him to refuse his assent to the bill of the last session, authorizing an appropriation for a limited time, of the proceeds of the public lands. The Message having been read, [DECEMBER, 1833. make a few observations on this extraordinary course, and to say that it was due to Congress, to the people, and to the Executive himself, to have informed the last Congress in reference to this subject, concerning which he must have made up his mind. He would now move to lay this bill on the table, and would afterwards give notice of a day when he should ask leave to bring in a bill in order to submit it again to the action of the Senate. The motion to lay the bill upon the table was decided in the affirmative-Ayes 19. Mr. BENTON moved to take up the Message for consideration. Mr. MOORE thought that the Senator from Missouri would have another opportunity of offering what he wished to say; and he was himself desirous to move the printing of an extra number of the Message. Mr. CLAY rose, and stated that this Measure had been first introduced into Congress at the session before the last, under circumstances which must be within the recollection of every member of the Senate. Its object was to dispose of the proceeds of the public lands for a limited time. The subject had been greatly discussed, not only in Congress, but throughout the country. The principles and provisions of the bill were well and generally understood. The subject had attracted the attention of the Chief Magistrate himself, and this bill was made the subject of commentary in his Message at the commencement of the last session of Congress. It must, therefore, be considered as a subject Mr. BENTON expressed a hope that he might perfectly well understood by the President; for it be permitted to take as wide a range as the was not to be supposed that he would have com- gentleman from Kentucky had taken. He mented upon it, and recommended it to the at-wished to ask the Secretary to turn to the tention of Congress, if it had not been un-journal, and inform him on what day of the last derstood. During the last session, this bill, session the bill was sent to the President. [The which had previously been before the House, Secretary, having referred to the journal, rewas introduced in this body, and was passed, plied, that it was sent to him on the 2d of and sent to the other House, whence it was March.] He wished the Senate to bear in mind returned with a slight amendment, taking that, as the 3d of March fell on a Sunday, the away the discretion which had been invested 2d was, in fact, the last day of the session. He in the State Legislatures as to the disposal then asked if there was not an ancient rule of of the proceeds. This bill, which had been be- Congress that prohibited the sending a bill to fore Congress the session before the last, which the President on the last day of the session? had passed at the last session, having been be- [Mr. KING answered that there was.] He then fore the country for a whole year when it passed inquired if the sending of the bill on the 2d of the two Houses, was placed before the Ex- March, last session, was not a violation of this ecutive, with a number of other measures, just rule? There was a precipitation and haste at before the close of the last Congress. As the the close of the session, which prevented not subject had been before the President for con- only the President, but the members themsideration so long previous to the passage of selves, from knowing precisely what they were the bill, and he had reflected upon it, it was doing. The rule to which he had adverted was not to have been expected that he would take set aside last session, and all the evils which advantage of the shortness of the session to re- accompany precipitation were the consequence. tain the bill until this time. Yet such had There were 142 acts put on the statute book been the fact, and a proceeding had taken place last session. The 53d of these acts was signed which was unprecedented and alarming, and on the 2d of March. So that there were about which, unless the people of this country were 90 acts signed on the last day of the session, lost to all sense of what was due to the legisla- and thus a mass of business was thrown on the tive branch of the Government, to themselves, President, which it was almost impossible to and to those principles of liberty which had perform. And now the people were called on been transmitted to them from the revolution, to revolt, and denunciations had gone forth they would not tolerate. It was at least due that, if the people would put up with this, they to the Legislature that the President should would put up with any thing, because the Preshave sent a few lines, courteously informing ident, in addition to all this mass of business, them that, when his own mind was made up, did not, on that day, write the paper which he would communicate the result. But without had now been read, and send the bill back. deigning to make known his intention, or to And this declaration was made in the presence impart the reasons which influenced him, he of members who knew that it sometimes took despotically kept silence, and retained the bill. them months to prepare a speech for the press, Mr. C. begged leave to congratulate the Senate with the help of the note-takers and the speak on the return of the bill. The question which ers themselves, and all that were concerned. now presented itself was, whether the bill was Yet the people were called on to revolt against dead, in consequence of the non-action of the the President for not preparing this paper in adPresident, or whether it had become an existing dition to all the legislative and executive busilaw. He was not now about to discuss that ness which pressed on him in the last few hours question; but he had felt himself called on to of the session. He had risen not only to de DECEMBER, 1833.] Veto of the Land Bill. [SENATE. understood it, and all the views which had been developed about it. Thus was Congress, at the commencement of the last session, officially invited to act, and to act speedily, respecting the public lands; and thus did the President manifest his knowledge of the provisions of the bill of the previous session. Well, sir, (said Mr. C.,) Congress again took up the question. The identical bill of the previous session was again introduced, and again, prior to its passage, placed before the President, along with the other printed documents, according to standing usage. And it was passed by both Houses, substantially in the shape in which at the previous session it was passed by the Senate, except that the restriction as to the power of the States to apply the sum to be distributed among the several States, after deduction of the twelve and a half per cent. first set apart for the new States, was fend the President, but to claim for him the He had risen to defend the President from what he considered an unjustifiable and violent assault made upon him for doing what was his duty. As to the bill itself, seeing the manner in which the Western elections had terminated, he was ready to meet it in any form. He entirely concurred in the suggestion for the printing of an extra number of the Message. In this form the bill was laid before the President on the 2d day of March last. It was no stranger, but an old acquaintance. He had seen it repeatedly before; and he must have been well informed as to its progress in Congress. He had commented on the very project contained in the bill, when he had brought forward his own, in his Message, at the opening of the session. Without deigning to communicate to Congress what disposition he had made, or meant to make of it, he permitted the body to rise in utter ignorance of his intentions. It may be true that there was a great press Mr. CLAY said he did not rise to reply to any of business on the President on the 2d of one who had felt himself called upon to rise in March, and that he may have acted upon some the Senate to vindicate the President. If there ninety or one hundred bills. But this is what were any such member, he did not wish to dis-occurs with every President on the day before turb him in his office of vindicator of the President, or to affect the complacency with which he might regard his vindication. But he (Mr. C.) stood here to sustain his own course, to vindicate the constitution, and to vindicate the rights of Congress under it. And he must repeat, that the withholding of the land bill, at the last session, under all the circumstances of the case, was a violation of the constitution, and disrespectful to the Senate. What were the circumstances? At two different sessions of Congress, the land subject was before it. At that which preceded the last, a bill had been introduced to distribute among the States the proceeds of the public lands. The whole subject, by the bill and by reports of committees, was laid before Congress and spread before the country. A copy of the bill, when it was first introduced, according to the constant practice of Congress, was sent to the President. He was thus, as well as the country generally, put in entire possession of the matter. It attracted great public attention. It engaged that of the President. And, accordingly, at the commencement of the last session, in his annual Message, he adverted to it, in a manner which evidently showed that the writer of the Message fully the termination of the short session of Congress. With most of those bills the President must have been less acquainted than he was with the land bill. Of some of them he probably bad never heard at all. Not one of them possessed the importance of the land bill. How did it happen that the President could_find time to decide on so many new bills, and yet had not time to examine and dispose of one which had long been before him and the public; one embracing a subject which he thought the union, harmony, and interest of the States required should be speedily adjusted; one which he himself had pronounced his judgment upon at the commencement of this session? By withholding the bill, the President took upon himself a responsibility beyond the exercise of the veto. He deprived Congress altogether of its constitutional right to act upon the bill, and to pass it, his negative notwithstanding. The President is, by the constitution, secured time to consider bills which shall have passed both branches of Congress. But so is Congress equally secured the right to act upon bills which they have passed, and which the President may have thought proper to reject. If he exercises his veto, and returns the bill, two-thirds may pass it. But if he withholds the bill, it cannot become SENATE.] Rhode Island Senators-Removal of the Deposits. a law, even although the two Houses should be unanimously in its favor. Mr. C. denied that the constitution gave to the President ten days to consider bills, except at the long session. At that session, the period of its termination is uncertain, and dependent upon the will of Congress. To guard against a sudden adjournment, by which the President might be deprived of due time to deliberate on an important bill, the constitution provides for ten days at that session. But, at the short session, it is not an adjournment, but a dissolution of Congress, on the 3d of March; and the day of that dissolution is fixed in the constitution itself, and known to all. Mr. C. contended, therefore, that the act of withholding the bill was arbitrary and unconstitutional; by which Congress, and the Senate especially, in which the bill originated, were deprived of their constitutional right of passing on the bill, after the President had exercised his powers. Respect to Congress required of the President, if he really had not time to form a judgment on the bill, or, having formed it, had not time to lay his reasons before the body, a communication to that effect. But, without condescending to transmit one word upon the subject to Congress, he suffered the session to terminate, and the members to go home destitute of all information, until this day, of his intentions. Mr. BENTON said that no quorum sat, in either House, on the evening after the day on which the bill was sent to the President. The Message was then laid on the table. Mr. MOORE moved that 5,000 extra copies of the Message be printed for the use of the Senate, which motion was adopted. Rhode Island Senators. On motion of Mr. WRIGHT, the Senate proceeded to consider the resolution offered by him yesterday. The Senate then proceeded to ballot for the select committee, when the Chair announced that the following gentlemen composed the committee: Messrs. POINDEXTER, RIVES, FRELINGHUYSEN, WRIGHT, and SPRAGUE. MONDAY, December 9. The Senate proceeded to the election of its officers, and, having balloted first for a Secretary, Walter Lowrie received 39 ballots, being all that were given, and was accordingly declared to be unanimously re-elected Secretary of the Senate. A balloting next took place for Sergeant-atarms, when J. Shackford received 25 votes out of 40, and was elected. The Senate proceeded to the election of an Assistant Doorkeeper, and, after six ballotings, Stephen Haight received 20 votes out of 39, and was accordingly elected. [DECEMBER, 1833. TUESDAY, December 10. Removal of the Deposits. Mr. CLAY rose and said, that he desired to call the attention of the Senate to a subject, perhaps exceeding in importance any other question likely to come before the present Congress. He adverted to the report of the Secretary of the Treasury, (Mr. TANEY,) on the subject of the removal of the deposits. He then moved to take up this report for consideration. The motion having been agreed to, Mr. C. then said that the charter granted to the Bank of the United States provided for the deposit of the money of the United States in that bank and its branches. It vested in the Secretary of the Treasury the power to remove these deposits, whenever such removal should be required by the public interests; but it is further required that whenever he does remove the deposits, he shall submit to Congress his reasons for the act at their next session. A removal of the public deposits had been determined on. How this was to be effected, or at whose instance, was not at present the question to be considered. But a removal had taken place; and the Secretary had stated that this was done by his order, and he had laid before Congress his reasons. When Congress, at the time of the passage of the charter of the bank, made it necessary that these reasons should be submitted, they must have had some purpose in their mind. It must have been intended that Congress should look into these reasons, determine as to their validity, and approve or disapprove them, as might be thought proper. The reasons had now been submitted, and it was the duty of Congress to decide whether or not they were sufficient to justify the act. If there was a subject which, more than any other, seemed to require the prompt action of Congress, it certainly was that which had reftreasury. erence to the custody and care of the public The Senate, therefore, could not, at too early a period, enter on the question-what was the actual condition of the treasury? A high officer of the Government, who ought to be in the chair, now so honorably filled by the President pro. tem., and whose absence he (Mr. C.) sincerely regretted, had once told the Senate to see where the lost rights of the States were. Now he (Mr. C.) wished to discover where was the public treasury, and whether the public money was in safe custody. It was not his purpose to go into a discussion, but he had risen to state that it appeared to him to be his duty as a Senator, and he hoped that other Senators took similar views of their duty, to look into this subject, and to see what was to be done. As the report of the Secretary of the Treasury had declared the reasons which had led to the removal of the public deposits, and as the Senate had to judge whether, on investigation of these reasons, the act was a wise one or not, he considered that it would not be right to refer the subject to any DECEMBER, 1833.] Election of Chaplain-Presidential Document. committee, but that the Senate should at once act on it, not taking it up in the form of a report of a committee, but going into an examination of the reasons as they had been submitted. He wished to make the report of the Secretary the order for some particular day, in the belief that the requisition made by the act of Congress on the Secretary of the Treasury for his reasons on the removal of the deposits, was doubtless intended to place the whole matter before Congress for consideration. Mr. C. then moved to postpone the consideration of the report until Monday next, and to make it the special order for that day. Mr. BENTON admitted that Congress had full power to go into the examination of the report. But he requested the Senate to bear in mind that the Secretary had announced, among other reasons which he had assigned for the removal of the deposits, that it had been caused by the misconduct of the bank, and he had gone into a variety of specifications, charging the bank with interfering with the liberties of the people in their most vital elements-the liberty of the press, and the purity of elections. The Secretary had also charged the bank with dishonoring its own paper on several occasions, and that it became necessary to compel it to receive paper of its own branches. Here, then, were grave charges of misconduct, and he wished to know whether, in the face of such charges, this Congress was to go at once, without the previous examination of a committee, into action upon the subject? The motion was then agreed to, and the report was made the special order for Monday next. Mr. CLAY then offered the following resolution. He believed that, by the rule of the Senate, it would have to lie one day. His object was to discover who it was that had made the removal of the deposits: Resolved, That the President of the United States be requested to inform the Senate whether a paper, under date of the 18th day of September, 1833, purporting to have been read by him to the heads of the several departments, relating to the deposits of the public money in the treasury of the United States, and alleged to have been published by his authority, be genuine or not; and, if it be genuine, that he be also requested to cause a copy of the said paper to be laid before the Senate. The resolution lies on the table. [SENATE. "Resolved, That the President of the United States be requested to inform the Senate whether a paper, under date of the 18th day of September, 1833, purporting to have been read by him to the heads of the several departments, relating to the deposits of the public money in the treasury of lished by his authority, be genuine or not; and if the United States, and alleged to have been pubit be genuine, that he be also requested to cause a copy of the said paper to be laid before the Senate. Mr. FORSYTH said that this was an unusual call, and he was desirous to know for what purpose it had been made, and for what uses the paper which had been called for was intended. He presumed that no one had any doubt as to its genuineness. He had none. Mr. CLAY replied, that the reasons for the call must be obvious, and would readily present themselves to every Senator; and, believing thus, he had not thought it necessary to suggest them. It had been said that the President had issued a particular paper, which he had read to the members of his cabinet, which had been promulgated to the public as his, and which was in the possession of the country as his. But the Senate had no official declaration of the President, nor any official communication to them of this paper, nor any thing in any form, from him, which affirmed that this paper was his. If the President had merely read a paper to the members of his cabinet, without promulgating that paper to the world, it would have presented a totally different question. Gentlemen would have reasonably doubted if they possessed a right to call for the production of a paper which was confidential between the President and the members of his cabinet. But this paper had been promulgated to the world; and therefore, the Senate, if it was the production of the President, had a right to call for an offi cial copy, that they might thus be assured, from had himself no doubt that the paper was genthe highest source, that it was genuine. He uine, but the fact only rested, at present, on the assertion of a newspaper, and it was not every assertion of every newspaper which was fully entitled to credit. The only testimony, now, was the assertion of the editor of a newspaper, and it was only respectful to the President to ask him for a copy; and if a copy was communicated, there could be no right to presume that it was not genuine. . Mr. FORSYTH said, if he understood the honorable Senator from Kentucky correctly, he admitted that with the intercourse between the President and his Secretaries, whether oral or written, the Senate had nothing to do. This view of the subject Mr. F. did not conceive to be affected by the publicity which, whether with or without the consent of the President, had been given to the paper referred to in the resolution. This paper was one said to have been addressed by the President of the United States to his confidential advisers. Mr. F. said he could not see why the honorable gentleman from Kentucky should entertain any particular desire to get at this paper. What official use could he make of it, when he had got it? Why depart from usage by calling for such a paper as this, unless it was intended to make some official use of it? Mr. F. said he could imagine that one branch of the Legislature might, under certain circumstances, have a right to call for it, and, if it were refused when called for, to obtain it by the use of means within its power. But this was not that branch of the Legislature. If the paper in question was to be made the ground of a criminal charge against the President of the United States, it must come from another body, and must be a part of the evidence on which the President of the United States is to be brought to the bar of this body, under a charge of high crime or misdemeanor. The honorable Senator had suggested that the paper referred to might be of vast use in ascertaining by whom the deposits had been removed. As to that, Mr. F. said, there was no question that the deposits have been removed; whether proper or not, would, he presumed, become a subject of inquiry. He presumed, also, that, as to that act, the Senate had already sufficient information to enable the gentleman from Kentucky to form his judgment upon it. Mr. F. concluded by saying he could perceive no use that the Senate had for this paper; the call for it was of a nature entirely unusual; and he should therefore resist it, and require the yeas and nays upon the question of agreeing to it. Mr. BENTON said that he had intended to ask for the yeas and nays, if the gentleman from Georgia had not done so, because he considered it due to the Senate that it should appear on the face of the journal who voted for, and who against the resolution. As to the information sought for from the President, it was impossible for the imagination to conceive the uses to which this information could be applied. The President had already communicated his reasons to all America. He might refuse to send a copy to the Senate, in answer to their call; and such a refusal would, in his opinion, be proper, in reference to the effect it might have in cases to arise hereafter. He asked if it was proper to call on the President to say if a document, which appeared in a newspaper, was his, was genuine or not? Was it proper that the Senate should call on the President to communicate to them a paper which he had read to the members of his cabinet? Supposing that, instead of a paper, the President had made a speech to his cabinet. What difference could be made between a written paper and a speech? He wished to know whether the Senate could have called on him to communicate a copy of his speech? If the Senate could do this, could they not go still further? and if they could call for this speech delivered to his cabinet, could they not also call for any thing which he had said to his cabinet, while sitting in his chair, and talking to them? And if they could do this, | [DECEMBER, 1833. could they not go still further, and call upon him for any thing he might have said in conversation to any single member, and which had by some means, got into a newspaper? Where, in fact, could a line be drawn? What if the members were lawyers; and he would ask of them what, in law, was the difference between words written and words spoken? Was not the whole of it parole? and the Senate might just as well call for what was spoken as for what was written. He had no doubt that a great many communications were made between the President and his cabinet on that day. The President might object to send a copy to the Senate. He had already given it to the world. Every Senator might take up the Globe, and read the paper, and might consider it the act of the President, and as much to be relied on as such as if he had before him the autograph of the President. In asking for the yeas and nays, he had no desire to deter any member of the Senate from using this paper. It might be used from the Globe in which it was printed, as well as if a copy were communicated from the President. But his object was to prevent the Senate from putting a question to the President which he might not consider himself bound to answer. Mr. WEBSTER said, that perhaps, after the various admissions which had now been made of the genuineness of the paper, the Senator from Kentucky might be induced to consider his purpose as well answered on that point, as if he retained the original phraseology of his resolution. And, in a modified form, he (Mr. W.) did not feel any objection to its adoption. He looked at the subject in a light somewhat different from that in which it was viewed by the gentleman from Georgia. If this was a letter to the heads of departments, it could hardly be an official document, and the Senate would have a right to call for it. His doubt was, whether it was an official act, which, as such, might come before the Senate without an express call. If it was a document which might come before the Senate in an official form, then the present motion might have been considered premature. But it could not be doubted by any one, that, before the close of the session, and it was impossible to tell how soon, there would be that before the Senate which would render it necessary to show how the removal of the deposits had been effected. That time would necessarily arrive, and he was desirous that all information on the subject should be communicated to the Senate. He was therefore influenced by a twofold motive. In the first place, he was satisfied that this subject must become a topic of discusion; and, secondly, he could not view this document as strictly an official act of the President. It had not been read to the cabinet only, but to the whole people. It appeared to embody instructions. It was a paper which did not essentially differ in its character from a proclamation. There was no existing statute which required of the President |