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Mr. HOLLAND. Mr. President, these tables-prepared for me by the Office of Education, show, according to the 1960 census, that the Negro population in 17 Southern States and the District of Columbia, has increased from 10,149,005 in 1940 to 11,694,582 in 1960-an increase of 1,545,577, or 15 percent.

But-and this is the significant point, Mr. President-the number of Negro teachers who are teaching in predominantly Negro institutions in those 17 States where segregation of educational institutions has been the custom, and including the District of Columbia which the Bureau of the Census includes in its tabulation, the number of teachers in those States has increased from 70,725 in 1943-44, the year for which the teaching data was first compiled-to 118,906 for the latest year for which the data was compiled, 1961-62. This, Mr. President, is an increase of 68 percent, as compared with the 15 percent increase in population.

The first table was prepared for me by the Office of Education in 1948. It was first inserted by me in the CONGRESSIONAL RECORD of May 13, of that year.

The second table was prepared for me by the Office of Education just a few days ago, on March 6. It is identical to the first-the same States, and the same categories of institutions and instructional staffs.

As I have mentioned, the District of Columbia is included in the geographical category in these lists of Southern States where the great increase in Negro teachers in relation to Negro population has occurred during the last 20 years-and during which time the Supreme Court made its fateful decision which forced integration down the throats of those very States where the Negro teacher has benefited most.

As the Office of Education compiles

statistics on instructional staffs on a slightly different basis than does the Bureau of the Census, as will appear from the lists I have already placed in the RECORD, as well as on a different geographical basis, its ratio of Negro teachers to Negro population for the 17 Southern States and the District of Columbia is slightly higher than that of the Bureau of the Census-10.2 for 1961-62, for every 1,000 of Negro population.

Its report for the same group of Southern States in 1948 showed a ratio of 7 per 1,000 population, including the District of Columbia.

For the 31 other States in the Union at that time, the 1948 report showed a ratio of Negro teachers to Negro population of 1 teacher per 1,000 population.

As stated earlier in my remarks, the Bureau of the Census shows a 1960 ratio for the other 33 States in the Union today, of 3.7 per 1,000 population.

States other than those in the Southto which the Senator from Florida has been referring, the ratio of Negro teachers to the population is only approximately 1 per 1,000?

Mr HOLLAND. That was based on the 1940 census, as shown by the 1948 report.

Mr. MCCLELLAN. What ratio in the Southern States?

Mr. HOLLAND. Seven per thousand, or seven times greater, at that time. Today it is more than twice the number in the North. In both areas, the number of Negro teachers has increased, although, as to the actual numbers, it has increased more greatly in the South. As to the ratio, it has increased more greatly in the North. But still the rest of the Nation, other than the South, has a good deal less than half the opportunities for Negro teachers to be employed and to gain advancement-as shown by the tables I have introduced in the RECORD, prepared either by the Office of Education or by the Legislative Reference Service of the Library of Congress.

Mr. MCCLELLAN. Is there any reason why those in other States cannot correct that condition without the enactment of this so-called civil rights bill? In order for them to have authority to do so, is it necessary that this bill be enacted?

Mr. HOLLAND. Of course, as the the question the Senator from Arkansas has asked indicates, they already have authority to correct that situation; and if they want to show an equally fair attitude and if they wish to provide an equally great opportunity for the Negro educators, there is the place where they can begin to do so. The article by Dr. Fine, which I have placed in the RECORD, made it clear that in the border States, which were the first to be affected by the 1954 decision, there had been a sizable displacement of Negro teachers, because even in those States the school officials and the boards of education are composed of white persons who will be responsive to the wishes of the white people; and the Negro teachers were the first to be affected by that decision. But when those teachers came to New York, by invitation of the New York Board of Education, to obtain employment, after 2 years-so Dr. Fine says, I am quoting him—not one of them had been given employment in the New York public school system.

Mr. MCCLELLAN. Mr. President, will the Senator from Florida yield for another question?

Mr. HOLLAND. I yield.

Mr. MCCLELLAN. Would the statistics the Senator from Florida is citing be indicative of the fact that, with respect to the selection of schoolteachers in the South and the selection of schoolteachers in areas other than the South, there has obviously been greater disthere has obviously been greater discrimination in the North against those among the Negro race in the teaching profession than there has been in the South?

Mr. HOLLAND. There has either been greater deliberate discrimination, or less opportunity has been afforded-whichever reason the Senator wishes to state. This situation has shown a greater unwillingness in the other States to allow willingness in the other States to allow Negro teachers to be employed-less employment opportunities for them than those which have existed over a period of many years in the Southland.

Mr. MCCLELLAN. Mr. President, will the Senator from Florida yield further to me?

Mr. HOLLAND. I yield.

Mr. MCCLELLAN. Why cannot we accept both reasons, instead of singling out only one, and let those who are able to do so, and who have some ability, I believe, make an explanation as to why such conditions obtain, and point out which is the real cause or justification for them?

Mr. HOLLAND. That is a fair suggestion, and I am perfectly willing to have them point it out. But I must say that the most distinguished Negro educator I have ever known, and whom I shall quote a little later, has said to me, personally, several times, that complete integration and desegregation of the public school system at all levels would be the greatest disservice which could ever be done to Negro people who wish to Mr. HOLLAND. I am glad to yield for teach and who have qualified themselves a question.

Mr. MCCLELLAN. Mr. President, at this point will the Senator from Florida yield?

Mr. MCCLELLAN. I seek clarification. I may have misunderstood the Senator from Florida; but did I correctly understand him to say that in the

to teach.

Mr. MCCLELLAN. Mr. President, will the Senator from Florida yield for another question?

Mr. HOLLAND. I yield.

Mr. MCCLELLAN. I thank the Senator from Florida. It is significant that those who are insisting upon the passage of this bill should be at least if they come in good faith-measure up to the same level of achievement that we in the South have been measuring up to in this area, before they insist that we are the ones who are discriminating against and oppressing the Negro race. First they should come with clean hands and should show their own good faith, by exercising the authority and powers they now have to correct this condition in their own States.

Mr. HOLLAND. Of course I agree completely with the distinguished Senator from Arkansas.

However, I am not trying to tell others what they should do. I hope their fairness will be such that they will realize the complete inadequacy of their own showing, as compared with the showing which has been made in the South, and that, being fairminded, they will address themselves to the provision of increased opportunities within their own areas.

Mr. MCCLELLAN. Mr. President, will the Senator from Florida yield further to me?

Mr. HOLLAND. I yield.

Mr. MCCLELLAN. I am not trying to tell anyone else what to do; but I point out that those who seek the passage of the proposed legislation, and are attempting to tell us what to do, have not measured up to their own responsibility to reach the same level of accomplishment and achievement that we have reached, even though they have the authority and the power to do so if they wish to.

Mr. HOLLAND. Of course, that is correct. The law of those States requires integration. The fact remains that the Negro teachers have not had opportunities to gain employment in those

States. There is no question about that point.

Those are the finest statistics that are available. An infinitesimally smaller opportunity for employment as well as for advancement exists-and I shall deal with the question of advancement in a moment-in the rest of the Nation outside of the South. I thank the Senator for his comments.

Mr. PROXMIRE. Mr. President, will the Senator yield for a question?

Mr. HOLLAND. I gladly yield to the distinguished Senator from Wisconsin. Mr. PROXMIRE. Will the Senator inform the Senate the proportion of Negro teachers to white teachers who are teaching in desegregated white public schools in any of the Southern States?

Mr. HOLLAND. The segregated white public schools have white teachers exclusively. The segregated Negro schools have Negro teachers exclusively.

The point I make is that under that system there is much greater invitation to service; there is much greater opportunity for employment; there is much greater opportunity for advancement; and there is much greater opportunity to gain eminence in their profession given to Negroes who have trained themselves for a life's vocation in the field of education.

Mr. PROXMIRE. Is it true that what the Senator is saying is that the way to provide educational opportunities for teachers is to have a segregated system, so that if it is found that any group whether the group consists of Italians, Poles, or any other nationality-is not represented in the teaching profession in the same proportion as the rest of the population, that group should be segregated and told that only people of that race or a certain particular identity would be allowed to teach pupils who were of the same race and of the same identity?

Mr. HOLLAND. No; that argument No; that argument would not follow at all, because generally the people in the groups which the Senator has mentioned are members of the Caucasian race. They are found in all the white schools both in the South and elsewhere.

The point applies to Negroes. Dr. Conant has made very clear in his book that the real problem in the North is with the Negro who lives in the slums and the great concentrated residential areas.

I am seeking solely to show that the Negroes in the North have not found a door open to them when they have trained themselves for years to be educators. They have not found that door open to them in the so-called integrated universities and colleges in the North either. As I shall show later, when they have been applicants for training in the learned professions-such as medicine or dentistry-most of them have had to come either to Howard University in Washington, which now claims to be integrated-we all know what the situation is there-or to Meharry in Nashville, Tenn. The last figures that I saw indicated that practically 90 percent of the doctors and dentists of the Negro race serving in our country were graduates of one or the other of those two institutions.

Mr. PROXMIRE. I agree that the Negroes should be given more oppor

tunity everywhere. But the sad and pathetic fact is that the Negroes have not had an opportunity to obtain the kind of training in the North that in many cases would give them the necessary qualifications to teach in integrated schools. In the South, they are not allowed to teach in the white schools. Their only opportunity to teach is in the Negro segregated schools. So we have a situation in which the teachers in the Negro schools in the South have not really had an opportunity to develop the kind of qualifications which would enable the pupils to get the kind of education and training which, as American citizens, they deserve to have and should have if they are to have equality of opportunity.

Mr. HOLLAND. I am glad that the Senator has asked that question, because it is founded upon a predicate which I have been insisting upon; namely, that the opportunities for education under the integrated system have proved to be not so good insofar as Negro children not so good insofar as Negro children are concerned. The Senator in his questions has twice admitted that fact. That is the point upon which he predicates his position.

Mr. President, in Florida-and I can speak now only for my own State, although I believe the situation obtains though I believe the situation obtains generally-the Negro and white teachers must stand exactly the same examinations. Certification gives them certain standards, depending upon how they standards, depending upon how they pass the examination, and also what their educational background and experience have been. Teachers in the State of Florida are paid exactly the same, whether they are white or black. Their pay depends entirely upon their status. It depends upon where they are certified, their stature as educators, and what college or university training they have had. No other distinction under our law is permitted. The only distinction that is made—and I believe it is a salutary one-applies to Negroes who wish to serve their own race. Incidentally, Negro teachers are very highly regarded by their own race. They are regarded almost as missionaries to their own people. I am sorry to say that teachers in Negro schools in the South generally are more highly regarded by their own people than white teachers are regarded by members of the white race. Of course, they like to teach in their own group. Many of them are as dedicated as missionaries in foreign fields. They are trying to raise the standards of their own people, and they regard themselves as dedicated people. My hat is off to them because they have shown that quality. But so far as their rate of pay is concerned, it is identical with that of the white teachers, depending upon their status, their certification, and their education and experience.

Mr. PROXMIRE. Mr. President, I should like to ask the Senator another should like to ask the Senator another question or two about his reference to the book by Dr. Conant.

Mr. HOLLAND. Yes. Has the Senator from Wisconsin read the book?

Mr. PROXMIRE. Yes, indeed. It is an excellent book. It is one of the great books of recent years.

I should like to ask the Senator if it is not true that when President Conant, and also Mr. Alsop, took a position on the assignment of students to various schools in order to overcome racial imbalance, they were taking a position which was completely in accordance with the bill. The last 2 lines on page 13 and the first 2 lines on page 14 of the bill specifically state:

"Desegregation" means the assignment of students to public schools and within such schools without regard to their race, color, religion, or national origin, but "desegregation" shall not mean the assignment of students to public schools in order to overcome racial imbalance.

That statement is four-square with the implications of the whole argument, as I understand, which the Senator from Florida has been given from both Mr. Alsop and Mr. Conant. They indicated that the transfer of students around within a city by bus so that some of the de facto segregation could be overcome, would not solve the problem. The bill not only does not attempt to do so, it explicitly defines desegregation to exclude that.

Mr. HOLLAND. If the Senator will read the report in the House of Representatives, he will find that at one or more places it is stated that the very use of the word "discrimination" is interpreted by many to mean what the Senator is talking about-the removing of imbalance. Those words were stricken from the administration's bill, and the provision which the Senator has read was put in the bill. It did not satisfy Members of the House that imbalance was removed from the coverage of the bill.

Mr. PROXMIRE. Does not the Senator agree that the language is clear?

Mr. HOLLAND. The language seems reasonably clear. But the fact remains that many Members of the House felt that the courts are interpreting the question of discrimination in a certain way.

If the Senator has read the debates that took place on the floor of the House of Representatives and has read the report, he knows that the very use of the word "discrimination" and the understanding of what that word implies are broad enough to include the question of imbalance and the question of enforced redrafting of district lines.

Mr. PROXMIRE. Is it not also true that the heart of the Conant book was the point that what the Negro student needs more than anything else is motivation based on the pride of really belonging. There is a lack of motivation in the home. There is lack of motivation in the entire society. There is lack of motivation in the schools.

Mr. HOLLAND. That was certainly a very important point made by Mr. Conant.

But, as I read his book-and I read it several times-the main point that he makes is that the people in the great cities-and, as I have studied the question, it has happened only in the great cities of the North, though I am not pretending to say that we may not find the same situation in some of the great cities of the South-the schools in the slum areas, many of which were wholly Negro, or most of which were

predominantly Negro, were not sufficiently well supported. He said that they needed new buildings, new equipment, and new teachers. They did not need to be under a system under which the teachers tried to graduate from the slum schools as quickly as they could to get into richer districts where they could be paid more and living conditions were better.

The Senator cannot read the book without recognizing that the point which the Senator makes and which Dr. Conant makes is well taken. Bettter motivation of Negro youngsters is desirable; not only for Negroes, but for white people living in a modest status which requires them to live in slums. Also those schools

should be more generously supported. Mr. Alsop, in his column, said they must be more generously supported.

I am calling attention to the fact that there is something that can be done by people who are perhaps looking away off yonder and not seeing what is happening in their own areas. I do not think anyone would suggest that the

States of Connecticut or New York or Illinois, for example, could not do more

with hard work that they could succeed, they were able to move ahead. This was a school district that has been legally desegregated. What helps a great deal in such a situation is when the community gets behind it, when there is a feeling by a student that he is of some value, that he does not have to go to schools where there are only Negro teachers, when a student has an opportunity to consider that he himself is a part of the human race, that he is a part of all the American citizens.

That is a part of the motivation in helping to give these people the kind of drive and determination needed to move ahead.

That, it seems to me, is a part of the thrust of title IV of the civil rights bill. Why is it not a very modest, simple procedure to provide for assistance to districts that want to desegregate, to help districts that want to desegregate, to help provide an additional motivation on the part of both teachers and students?

Mr. HOLLAND. There are two fatal

defects in this title so far as the Senator

from Florida is concerned. The first is the open-end appropriation provision. The bill, if passed, would authorize the

whole front whole front of the schools of the South

Mr. PROXMIRE. With reference to section 407, with respect to suits to be brought by the Attorney General, is it not true that the typical Negro family does not have the $20,000 or $30,000 it takes to bring a lawsuit; that unless language is provided for the Attorney General to bring a suit when he receives information, the provision will not amount to anything? When it is said that impoverished families can bring a lawsuit, what does it mean? The overwhelming majority of the families affected have limited means and money, many are actually poverty stricken, and they could not dream of bringing a suit; whereas the Attorney General has the means to do it.

Mr. HOLLAND. The Senator has not

read it all. If he will read the words that go beyond the point he has referred to, he will see that the Attorney General is finding that complainants might be inauthorized to bring a suit on his own jured economically or otherwise if they

brought the suit.

I cannot agree that the Negro people of the United States have shown no

for their schools in slum districts if appropriation of countless billions of capacity to bring suits, because they

they cared to do so. The point has been made that it has not been done. That is the main point in Dr. Conant's book, and in Mr. Alsop's two columns, which I have placed in the RECORD.

Mr. PROXMIRE. Is the Senator familiar with the name of Dr. Shepard, the

famous Missouri school superintendent?

Mr. HOLLAND. I have heard of him. Mr.PROXMIRE. In a St. Louis school district which was overwhelmingly Negro under his jurisdiction between 1957 and 1963 Dr. Shepard instituted reforms in which he brought about the opportunity for Negro parents and Negro students to get a feeling that they belonged to society, that what they did really mattered, that they could have economic hope, that they had a future, and to get a feeling that if the students studied hard at home, planned their time, were conscientious in their schoolwork, they would advance.

The showing in that particular school district was almost magical. Whereas in 1957, the statistics showed the school district was far below average, as shown by the Iowa tests, by 1963 the results showed remarkable improvement all along the line, pulling the schools in this district up to a level comparing very favorably with students throughout America.

This showing was based on a solid motivation developed in parents and teachers and students. It took tough, painful, hard work, but excellent results were shown when Negroes were motivated to the point where they felt they had a place in society, and when they knew they could move into the whole society of America, and belong to America as a part of the whole society.

One part of this wonderful Shepard story is that adult Negroes who had succeeded in life as business and professional men, came into the schools to speak with the students and parents there. Once the students and parents had the understanding and belief that

dollars with no limitation whatsoever so far as I know. That is one objection.

have brought suits right and left, on every hand; and they are pending in various courts.

I am still saying that the objections I have in mind are the 2 major ones

The second objection is to giving the Attorney General the right to file injunctions in this area, which is so close to the home and to the parents and the whole community, upon his own finding I have stated. So long as those provi

that there exists a case in which he should do it, upon his finding that the complainants themselves might be prejudiced-that is one of the grounds-if they brought the suit themselves.

There is a separate provision that there shall be no review by any court of that decision. I object to that.

There is a further provision that criminal contempt proceedings would lie, and that there would be no jury trial. I that there would be no jury trial. I object to that.

The Senator will not find that specific language in the provision, but he will language in the provision, but he will find ample reference to the use of injunction, and he will find the basis for the use of injunction in this field upon the use of injunction in this field upon the sole finding of the Attorney General.

One of the features of the bill provides for the use of injunction, and the use of criminal contempt proceedings, without jury trial, the accused person to be tried by the very person who has sought tried by the very person who has sought to hold the accused in criminal contempt. to hold the accused in criminal contempt.

I do not approve this particular title for those reasons.

There is one feature in the title I could approve, and that is the matter of technical assistance to districts that might want to better their conditions. I would want to better their conditions. I would want to see that provision enacted into want to see that provision enacted into law.

Mr. PROXMIRE. That is most heartening. That is the main thrust of the title.

Mr. HOLLAND. That is a very minor part of the title. If the Senator would reduce it to the point where it meant only that the Senator from Florida, as only that the Senator from Florida, as the one who is handling that title on this the one who is handling that title on this side of the question, would have nothing further to say about the title. But this provision is all-pervading. It covers the provision is all-pervading. It covers the

sions are in the title, I shall object to it. So long as the title exists in its present form, I must oppose it as vigorously as I know how.

Senators who have said that Negroes have no pride or motivation and do not know where to turn do not understand the situation. I was present last Saturday at Sarasota, Fla., at the annual pageant where old King Neptune is supposed to come up out of the water and, with his train, parade through the streets. I was one of the people in the train. Two of the finest performances I saw were by 2 Negro bands, one from the high school at Sarasota and the other from the high school at Palmetto, Fla. If the Senator from Florida ever saw a look of pride and joy on youngsters' faces, and a willingness to stand up and be counted as American citizens, it was shown by those some 200 Negro youngsters who were in the bands and their majorettes. I did not see any lack of it in the strutting anywhere. The Senator does not know what the situation is in the South.

I wish to go a little further. The Florida Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University at Tallahasse, Fla., has an enrollment of nearly 3,000 Negroes, and not a single white. The staff is completely Negro, from its president on down. It has a great hospital to which Negroes from all over the State go when they have something seriously wrong with them. The school has engendered such respect from the Negro people in my State, that I do not believe there is a Negro in Florida, no matter how much of an agitator he may be in this field, who would wish to give it up. They have won the football championship time after time after time among the Negro schools

in the Nation. They have a coach named Jake Gaither who has won the title of "outstanding coach" several times among the small colleges of the Nation. They have developed very fine people who have reflected credit upon themselves and the State of Florida.

For example, Althea Gibson came came down from New York to Florida to be trained, among other things, to eventually become the greatest tennis player in the world. Willie Galimore, who plays for the Chicago Bears, a few miles from where the distinguished Senator from Wisconsin lives, received his training in Florida. Other Negroes on professional football teams have attained a high level of excellence. Bob Hayes, who won all the dash races in the recent invasion of Europe by our own carefully selected American track team, and only the other day broke the world record in Madison Square Garden for the 60-yard dash in an indoor affair, is likewise a product of that institution.

They have the finest band one could possibly imagine, a band which is in demanded everywhere to take part in Florida State fairs and also fairs outside the State. They engage in a football game each year in Miami, which is roughly 500 miles from there. I believe it is called the Orange Blossom Game. They play the best Negro teams in the Nation. Negroes have made the finest record for themselves, and the high standard is gratifying to them. People from many States come there not only to see a football game, but to see the great band perform. The Negroes are proud of their school and of themselves, and of the fact that they have an opportunity to show what their race can do.

If anyone believes Negroes do not take pride in their race, he does not know the facts.

Zora Neale Hurston, who wrote a bestseller not long ago, made it clear that her own father had never been fully accepted by her mother's family, who were full blooded Negroes, because he was a mulatto. They were proud of their race. Zora Neale Hurston I happen to know rather well, because one of her best books is dedicated to my own wife, and my wife is proud of that. And so am I. So, I hope no one believes that the Negro people, particularly in the Southland, do not take pride in their race, do not wish to preserve their race pure, and do not wish to be given the opportunity to show what they can do.

When I was Governor of Florida during World War II, a group of about 30 of the most distinguished Negro citizens of my State came to visit me to ask that they be allowed to carry on separate civil defense activities in the cities where there were large Negro populations, for the sole purpose of showing what they could do through their own race and through their own efforts. They made a fine record, which I commended repeatedly, and which all the good citizens in our State commended.

They turned out auxiliary police and firemen so that on weekend vacations when some of the many thousands of Negro troops that were being trained in Florida would go to the cities, these

auxiliary police serving without compensation, supplemented the regular police, who were Negroes, and helped to uphold the authority of those who were enforcing the law. The auxiliary firemen also helped the police patrol the beaches. Every foot of the beach needed to be patrolled, because enemy submarines were just offshore. The Senator will perhaps remember that subversives were landed on the coast of Florida. Some of those subversives, I believe, were caught later in various places-the last one in Washington. The Negroes played their part in that operation. They asked to be able to do it alone and independently so that they could show that they were good Americans.

So anyone who believes that they do not have motivation must live in a part of the country with which I am not familiar, because in my State they do have motivation. They are proud of their race and proud of the record their race is making. And I am proud of the record they are making in my State.

So far as I am concerned, while I agree with that motivation, the sense of being wanted, the sense of being proud of one's status is a necessary ingredient-for whites, for Negroes, or for anybody else. Mr. COOPER. Mr. President, will the Senator from Florida yield?

Mr. HOLLAND. I am glad to yield. Mr. COOPER. I should like to propound a question to the distinguished pound a question to the distinguished Senator from Florida. First, I do not First, I do not wish to question the statements he has made about the quality of Negro schools in the South. I am not familiar with the schools in every State, but I would accept the judgment of the Senator from Florida, who has been Governor of Florida, about the quality and the condition of Negro schools in Florida.

From my observation in my own State of Kentucky, we have many Negro schools, or did have, which maintained schools, or did have, which maintained in the quality of their facilities and in the quality of their facilities and plants conditions equal to those afforded white students. I agree with the Senator that the Negro teachers compare favorably in their dedication and ability to white teachers.

On one occasion, 3 or 4 years ago I spoke in Tuscaloosa, Ala., the seat of the University of Alabama. The mayor of that city was Mayor Van Tassel. I was interested in his name, and when I questioned him, he told me that he was one of the Van Tassels from the Hudson of the Van Tassels from the Hudson River, but he had decided to settle in Alabama. He was a very able and fine gentleman-with a good southern accent. gentleman-with a good southern accent.

He showed me the Negro schools in Tuscaloosa. Tuscaloosa. In some cases they were superior, in their plants and facilities, to those existing in white schools.

But, assuming the Senators premise to be correct this is my question: Is it not correct that the argument the Senator is making is one of the arguments that was made before the Supreme Court in the Brown against Board of Education case and later in Cooper against Aaron. The Supreme Court took all such arguments into consideration, and after lengthy hearings, which included consideration of the Senator's main argument, the Court reached its

decision that enforced racial segregation in public schools of a State was a denial of equal protection of the laws prohibited by the 14th amendment.

Mr. HOLLAND. No; it did not reach that decision, if the Senator will permit me to interrupt him at that point. The decision reached was that no Negro child could be prevented from attending a publicly financed school by reason of his race, but by no means did the Court hold that there should be a complete end of either Negro schools or white schools. The whole question revolves around what the citizen will tolerate, what the citizen wants, and what the citizen prefers.

So if the distinguished Senator from Kentucky would reread those two decisions, he will find that to be the case. Mr. COOPER. It is not true that the argument the distinguished Senator is now making was one of the arguments considered by the Supreme Court, before it rendered the Brown decision?

Mr. HOLLAND. I believe that is correct, and I believe that the Court in rendering the decision ruled in substance, that no Negro child should be deprived of the right to attend a publicly financed institution of learning by reason of his color. I stated on the floor of the Senate that the decision of the Supreme Court should be obeyed; and I also stated, under very difficult circumstances, when other States in the South were affected, that it should be obeyed. The scope of the decision was not as broad as the Senator from Kentucky believes, because it merely said that no Negro child should be deprived of the right to attend a publicly financed institution of learning by reason of his color.

That is what was held.

Mr. COOPER. I will read what the Court said in Cooper v. Aaron—358 U.S. 1, at page 4—in referring to the Brown case. It is a very short statement, consisting of only one sentence.

That holding [in the Brown decision] was that the 14th amendment forbids States to use their governmental powers to bar children on racial grounds from attending schools where there is State participation through any arrangement, management, funds, or property.

Mr. HOLLAND. That is what the Senator from Florida has been saying.

Mr. COOPER. That is what I have said and it is the holding of the Supreme Court. With all due respect to the argument of the Senator from Florida the Brown decision and subsequent cases present many facts concerning the condition of Negro schools in the South. Nevertheless, existing conditions in those public schools cannot affect the validity of the decisions of the Court.

Mr. HOLLAND. The Senator from Florida would freely grant that. The quotation shows that the Senator from Florida is correct. The Court has held that the State cannot by State law bar a Negro from attending a publicly financed school.

Mr. COOPER. The decision goes further than that. A few days after the first Brown decision, the Court rendered a decision in which it determined the

means by which its first holding should be carried into effect. In the second decision it was declared that desegregation of the schools was to take place as quickly as possible. The phrase employed was "with deliberate speed." Every board of education in the United States that had not done so, was directed to take steps to make effective the basic holding of the Brown case.

Mr. HOLLAND. Which means that every State had to remove any legal prohibition against a Negro child being banned from attending a publicly financed school by reason of his race. That is as far as it went.

Mr. COOPER. That is correct. Since then the Supreme Court has gone even further in several cases and held that if a State in any way fails to act, or if a board of education, as an instrumentality of the State, fails to act, or if it is clear that constructive steps are not being taken to remove segregation in the segregation in the schools, that the courts have the right to step in and act, so that existing obstacles may be removed.

Mr. HOLLAND. Yes; the Court has held that Negro children who say they are being kept out of a publicly financed school by reason of their race shall have the right to be admitted. There is not the slightest shadow of doubt that every public school, regardless of whether such a complaint is made, must recognize the decision.

I believe this news item will give some light on the subject. I have spoken

about the superb quality in many areas that Negro education provides in the South. I have just had brought to me a UPI ticker tape. I should like to read a part of it at this point:

CHICAGO. Segregated high schools in the South may be superior in many respects to northern segregated or interracial schools, a Michigan State University psychiatrist said today.

cern that as a result of desegregation, in public schools, they might lose their position as teachers.

Mr. HOLLAND. That bears out my experience.

Mr. COOPER. But even if we assume the facts to be as stated, it still does not reach the problem. The quality of Negro schools cannot be used as an argument against the decision of the Supreme Court that desegregation of public schools must take place.

Mr. HOLLAND. The Senator from Florida freely admits that when there is a complainant of that race who wants to get into a publicly financed school under the law now announced by the Supreme Court, he is entitled to admission. That does not mean that every one of that race who wants to be admitted would be admitted.

Every one of the cases the Senator has Every one of the cases the Senator has mentioned is a case in which a complainant or complainants were before the court, and in which the decision of the court applied to the particular complainants.

Mr. COOPER. I am not questioning that. Whenever there is an action in court someone must file a complaint. This section of the bill would not change that principle or procedure.

Mr. HOLLAND. I do not believe that

the Negro parents of my State would be willing to give up the Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University, which has an enrollment of nearly 3,000 Negro students, some of them from our State, and a great many from other States, who come there because of the superior who come there because of the superior advantages they find there. I do not believe they would give up the high schools which are located within their own residential areas and which are producing fine, trained youngsters, with pride and determination to move ahead. pride and determination to move ahead. I believe that the vast majority of Negro people in my own State-I have talked with a great many of them, and I am not speaking recklessly-would much prefer to see the agitators stop their agitation, and see their children continue to receive training under people of their own race, with other youngsters of their own race, and move ahead to the finer life which is open to them only if they can continue with their education, but which they This is a trained educator from Michi- think will not be open to them in integan State University.

Negro youngsters in southern segregated schools "place a higher emphasis" on academic pursuits than do their northern counterparts, David Gottlieb said in a speech prepared for a meeting of the American Orthopsychiatric Association.

Part of the difference, he said, was in classroom methods and the identification of the Negro students with teachers of their own


Then the ticker tape item continues: "The all-Negro schools found in many of our northern innercity areas are not achieving the kinds of goals which we hold to be of importance in the formal educational process," Gottlieb said.

If that does not bear out what Dr. Conant said, what Mr. Alsop has said, and what I have just said, I would not know how to bear it out.

Mr. COOPER. I was not questioning the Senator's statement about the quality of Negro schools in the South. I have already discussed the quality of public schools in my State of Kentucky, which is at least a border State. I am not questioning the suggestion that in some northern States Negro teachers may experience discrimination. I would even go a little further and say that I have heard some Negro teachers express con

grated schools.

said for that point of view. I should like to have my friend consider it.

Mr. COOPER. I have read the Brown case many times. My conception of the Brown case is that it provides that a State may not, in any way or by any means, enforce segregation in a public school.

Mr. HOLLAND. The Senator means in a publicly financed school?

Mr. COOPER. That is correct. We know that if a Negro child chose to continue attending a Negro school that he would be free to do so.

Mr. HOLLAND. There is no prohibition against the State continuing Negro schools under that condition.

Mr. COOPER. No. If they want to go to that school, that is their right. Mr. HOLLAND. That is correct. Mr. COOPER. If school districts are

fairly arranged, and not gerrymandered, I do not see why any child should be compelled to attend a school in some other school district merely to prove or But I believe that the Brown case holds show that desegregation has taken place. that a positive effort toward desegregation should be made. The court outlined the method by which desegregation should be implemented. We are aware of the practical reasons why court actions to enforce desegregation have not been more successful. It is because parents of Negro children either do not have the funds to go into court or because conditions may prevail in a particular State which make it very difficult for them to bring a court action, even when funds may be available. The purpose of section 407 in the bill is to offer to such a child who wants the protection of the 14th amendment, as expressed in the Brown case, and who chooses to attend a desegregated school, the authority, the power, and the financial support of the United States to secure what the Supreme Court has said are his constitutional rights. I see nothing wrong with tion of the bill is right because, if a parthat. I will go further. I think this secent wants to secure for his child this constitutional right, then the Congress has an obligation, under the second section of the 14th amendment, to enact appropriate legislation to enable him to do so.

Mr. HOLLAND. The point I make is that the vast majority of Negroes with whom I have talked, and I believe also the vast majority of them in my State, Recently I read a very fine article in much prefer to have their children asthe Progressive magazine. I have it sociate with their own, to be taught by somewhere in my file. I am sure no one their own, and to have the group pride can claim that the Progressive magazine of attainment which comes through that is a conservative publication. The article course. They are by no means content was written by a learned writer, whose to go in large groups to the white schools, article was felt to have sufficient merit I wanted to inject that idea, about which article was felt to have sufficient merit to be printed in that magazine. The we are hearing much under that system. writer stated that it was basically unfair That seems to be the opinion of the to Negro children to have them put into learned educator from Michigan, whose integrated schools with predominant or statement just appeared on the news great majorities of white children, beticker at a very happy time, so far as I cause he thought they would get the idea am concerned, and which I have just that that meant they were going to be asked to have printed in the RECORD. admitted to white society, whereas he knew perfectly well that that was not going to be the case, and that disillusionment was as sure to come as the day when they graduated, and that he felt it was a great disservice to the Negro children to have that done. to have that done. There is much to be

Mr. COOPER. I believe that all our Negro citizens want to know that whatever choice they may make about attending a desegregated school, within a proper school district or about voting, or about going into places of public accommodation, is that they will be able to do

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