Mr. McLAIN. That's right; exports, of course. Mr. THOMPSON. Exports. Do you happen to know what the Cuban situation may be? Do you know about what the outlook is in view of their revolution and so forth? Mr. McLAIN. Well, we, of course, get into that on sugar as well as rice. Mr. Satterfield here may be able to answer what their intentions are better than I. I think from the standpoint of the turmoil that has been stirred up down there, my latest information is that we have seen the worst of it. If that is so, it will improve the chances of raising a crop, not only of rice but of sugar. Mr. Satterfield, do you have any comment on the intended plantings? Mr. SATTERFIELD. Not for 1959. 1958 is down a little bit from 1957. We are going to export about 4 million hundredweight of milled rice to Cuba this year as compared with 32 million. Mr. THOMPSON. Exported to Cuba? Mr. SATTERFIELD. Yes, sir. It means if their acreage goes down further next year, there is a possibility we may further increase our exports. Mr. THOMPSON. In other words, the turmoil in Cuba leads to additional sales on our part rather than of curtailment. Mr. SATTERFIELD. That plus the fact that their income from sugar has been pretty good and they can afford to eat pretty good, I suppose. Their per capita consumption runs somewhere about 120 pounds, somewhere in that neighborhood. Mr. THOMPSON. So we can anticipate, then, that the disappearance in the direction of Cuba will probably not fall materially? Mr. McLAIN. There wouldn't be much change, in my opinion. Mr. THOMPSON. An educated guess is all we are asking, Mr. McLain. Nobody knows. When you have a revolution, you don't know what is going to happen. Mr. SORKIN. In the case of Indonesia, where there is revolution currently, their exports of copra are down to practically zero. When there is a revolution it is a dangerous thing to forecast what the exact implications are. Mr. THOMPSON. Now, on page 3 of your statement, you set up an anticipated export of 16 million hundredweight. Do you know the history of that figure, where it came from and why it was so set? Mr. McLAIN. Of course, as one of the members of the Board of Directors of the Commodity Credit Corporation, I am generally familiar with these decisions. This, of course, again is projecting ahead. It is projected on the assumption, No. 1, that Public Law 480 is going to be extended. If that were not done, this figure could be down considerably, in my judgment. Mr. THOMPSON. If it were extended? Mr. McLAIN. Of course, if extended, we project it on the basis of what we would use for rice if the billion and a half dollars were granted. Mr. THOMPSON. The hearing some rather interesting data. it was originally submitted to not? that we held a few weeks ago developed Among other things, that figure, when you, was up around 19 million, was it Mr. McLAIN. We have all kinds of tables submitted to the Board, Mr. Chairman, on all of these commodities. This is one of the difficulties that you have, even in determining acreage allotments or price support. Of course, it all depends on the set of facts that you want to use. It depends almost completely on how much added funds you get in Public Law 480 and the proportion used for rice or how much rice you give away. We probably had several different sets of figures. We do generally with most of these commodities. The fact is that many times we have them set up a table with different set of figures in order to give us a picture of what the results would be. I would say, however, that the decision that was made was based on what we thought was fair and reasonable to rice, as compared to other commodities. I think the figures will back us up on that. Mr. THOMPSON. The 19 million hundredweight figure would have left rice in substantially the same position that it is now? Mr. McLAIN. It wouldn't change it materially. Mr. THOMPSON. And the figures that were then arbitrarily set would put the rice industry to a considerable extent, out of business? Mr. McLAIN. I think you would put it the other way, if you put it at 19 million, it would change the level of price support a little. Mr. THOMPSON. It would increase it a little. Mr. MCLAIN. Yes. Mr. THOMPSON. But instead of using a set of figures that would leave the rice industry substantially in status quo, at least for planning purposes, we arbitrarily take a set of figures that would put them out of business? Mr. McLAIN. I think we have ample proof that if you look at the Public Law 480 funds used for rice, you would agree that we have treated rice fairly. Mr. THOMPSON. Possibly so; we haven't run into them yet. The State Department tells us that they would like to have more rice for sale in India, Pakistan, I think, and Indonesia, and they say that they have put in the request for additional rice. If that rice were developed, the surpluses, by the end-what is it, the end of July when we start the thing, the 1st of August, those surpluses would be practically gone. Mr. MCLAIN. I think rice is the one commodity that if we would program, and out of proportion amount of funds available and under 480 we could probably find an outlet for all of it. Mr. THOMPSON. Why not do it rather than put the rice industry out of business or put so much of the rice industry out of business? Mr. McLAIN. Your area of the country, and all you good gentlemen here, have crop interests other than rice. We have to look at all commodities, as required by law. We don't think the law intends that a disproportionate share of the funds should be used for any one commodity. We have many of these commodities that are in the surplus situation. The cotton allotment coming up is going to be much below the present minimum. Wheat would be down, if it didn't have a minimum permanently on the statute books, to around 20 million acres instead Mr. THOMPSON. It has a minimum. Mr. THOMPSON. What is protected. Looking at Public Law 480 under which we operate, in which we are primarily interested at the moment, trying to see just exactly what the policy is that we are trying to carry out-taking out of context from section 2, it says To make maximum efficient use of surplus agricultural commodities in furtherance of the foreign policy of the United States, and to stimulate and facilitate the expansion of foreign trade and agricultural commodities produced in the United States And so on. It would seem that there is ample authority under the law to move this surplus that may prove so troublesome in rice. Mr. McLAIN. Well, again, as custodian of the funds, and considering all of the inventories, I think the record will show, that rice has fared probably better than any other single commodity. Mr. THOMPSON. That may be true. Mr. McLAIN. I don't think it was the intent of Congress to treat rice differently than any other crop. That is what I am saying. Mr. THOMPSON. But it wasn't the intent of Congress to use it or to refrain from using it in such a manner that it would have this market effect on any one industry. This seems to be the only one. Mr. MCLAIN. No; cotton. Mr. THOMPSON. Is in the same? Mr. MCLAIN. Cotton is in the same boat. Mr. THOMPSON. Are we going to face a great curtailment in the production of cotton? Mr. MCLAIN. Our best estimate now is a little over 14 million acres. Mr. THOMPSON. That is not because of any overhanging surplus? Mr. MCLAIN. That is because of the 81/2 million bales carryover. It is down from what it was but this is a factor, that has much to do with the price support level and the acreage allotments. Mr. THOMPSON. Apparently, then, our only hope is that some new legislation Mr. McLAIN. We had all assumed that that was so. Certainly we have approached it on that basis, Mr. Chairman, I know all the people in the rice industry that I have talked to think it inconceivable that we wouldn't have some new legislation. Mr. THOMPSON. I hope that we will be able to give it to you. On the other hand, in the event that we don't get the new legislation, somebody in your shop can accept the figures that were originally sent to you, estimated exports, 19 million-if we could get you to use those figures instead of 16 million Mr. MCLAIN. Mr. Chairman, I happened to be Director of the Grain Division for 22 years. I think that I, as much as anybody in this room, have sat in on meetings that determined acreages and price supports because all of the grains have been problem areas. I can ask 5 or 6 technicians to go up by themselves and come up with a set of figures. I think you would get each of them to come up with a different set. This has always been true. This constantly happens anytime any of these matters comes up with respect to any of these dockets in the time that I have been on the Board. I am sure it was true ahead of that time. Mr. THOMPSON. Do you have any questions, Mr. Gathings? Mr. GATHINGS. I would like to ask a question or two, Mr. Chairman. I think you made a good statement, giving us a full picture of the rice situation as it exists at this time. Mr. MCLAIN. We try to be honest, Mr. Gathings. Mr. GATHINGS. Mr. Secretary, I wondered if you could give us a little information with regard to the amount of Public Law 480 funds that have been allocated for rice? Mr. McLAIN. Mr. Dean here, and Mr. Sorkin Mr. SORKIN. $267 million total since the beginning of the program. Mr. GATHINGS. Now, that has been for some time. Now, I believe these figures that you put in the record had to do with the total program. Mr. MCLAIN. Yes. Mr. GATHINGS. Overall. Mr. Chairman, I ask that that will be made a part of the record. Mr. THOMPSON. At this point? Mr. GATHINGS. At this point. Mr. THOMPSON. Without objection, so ordered. (The documents referred to are as follows:) Title I, Public Law 480-Value of commodities programed at CCC cost Relation to title I, Public Law 480, programing to 1957 United States production 1 Production-cottonseed and soybean crop on oil basis. 2 Production-fluid milk, title I quantities-fluid milk equivalent, fat solids basis. * Includes meats, poultry, dry beans, seeds, fruits and vegetables. 4 Less than 1 percent. 25.3 1.0 8.5 5.3 61.4 12.4 (9 Mr. GATHINGS. Now, does that table show where the purchases under 480 have been made and what countries? Mr. McLAIN. This particular table does not. Mr. GATHINGS. Mr. Chairman, has that previously gone into the record in some of the other hearings? Mr. THOMPSON. Off the record. (Discussion off the record.) Mr. THOMPSON. At this point, we will insert in the record table I. Mr. DEAN. Table I shows the commodity objective for rice as of March 31, 1958, under title I, Public Law 480, in regard to signed agreements and agreements approved for negotiation. The next table, table II, shows agreements signed as of March 31, 1958. Table III gives the programs approved for negotiation but not yet approved. You will notice the total quantity of rice from CCC stocks to be programed under title I, is 230,000 metric tons or 4.6 million hundredweight. Mr. GATHINGS. How much is that in hundredweight, Mr. Dean? Mr. MCLAIN. That makes it bigger. Mr. DEAN. The tables discussed will be submitted for the record. Mr. GATHINGS. That is what we would like. (The tables referred to are as follows:) TABLE I.-Title I, Public Law 480, commodity objective, rice, as of Mar. 31, 1958 TABLE II.-Agreements signed title I, Public Law 480, rice, as of Mar. 31, 1958 Country: Pakistan____. Total quantity---- Million hundredweight 2.2 2.2 TABLE III.-Programs approved by ISC for negotiations, rice, title I, Public Country: Ceylon Peru Philippines Total quantity--- Law 480 Million hundredweight 0.6 .7 .6 1.9 Mr. DEAN. Let's go back to 1956-57, the marketing year beginning August 1, and ending July 30, to discuss the movement of rice from CCC inventory. How did your rice move? Mr. GATHINGS. That is what they want. Mr. DEAN. Let's take exports, dollar sales, for good United States dollars-this is all in hundredweight, and this is on a milled basis. It was 1,001,000 hundredweight. For barter, as indicated by Mr. McLain's statement, one million hundredweight. Public Law 480, 15,552,000 hundredweight. |