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members to have an opportunity afforded} them of knowing how the officers of the Convention were to be elected.

The PRESIDENT remarked, that there were no special rules as yet, it was true, for the government of this body; but he understood it to be an universal parliamentary rule, that all questions of adjournment should be decided without debate.

The PRESIDENT said, he was not aware of any rule of the House prescribing that all voting should be by ballot.

Mr. PETTIT moved that the Convention adjourn until 9 o'clock to-morrow morning.

Mr. ROBINSON suggested whether it would not be better for the gentleman to make his motion to adjourn for a longer time-taking time enough for himself and his friends to reMr. FOSTER said, he was obliged to dis-tire and make a Constitution ready for submissent from the decision of the Chair, for the reason that this body, being without rules, had as yet fixed no definite time to which the adjournment should extend. He appealed from the decision of the Chair.

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Mr. BORDEN offered the following resolution:

Resolved, That a committee be appointed by the Chair to prepare and report rules of order for the government of the proceedings of this Convention; and until said committee report, and it be otherwise ordered, the rules of the House of Representatives of this State be adopted by this Convention, as regulations to govern its proceedings and deliberations, so far as the same are applicable.

The resolution was adopted.

The following delegates appeared, produced their credentials, and, being duly sworn by the Hon. HORACE P. BIDDLE, took their seats,

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Resolved, That we now proceed to elect, viva coce, three Secretaries for this body, and that when elected, the President assign to each their respective duties.

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sion to the Convention, so that the body would have nothing to do but to adopt it and go home. Mr. PETTIT, (in his seat:) Oh yes, we will provide a Constitution in time.

The yeas and nays were demanded on the motion to adjourn, and being taken by the Secretary of State, were-yeas 37, nays 106; so the Convention refused to adjourn.

Upon the suggestion of Mr. SPANN, the county of Vanderburgh was called, and Mr. JAS. E. BLYTHE, delegate for said county, came forward, took the constitutional oath, and the oath of office, the same being administered by Judge BLACKFORD, and took his seat.

Mr. PETTIT proposed to amend the resolution of Mr. KILGORE by inserting after the word "duties" the words "and Sergeant-atArms and Door-keeper."

Mr. KILGORE said, he would suggest to his experienced friend from Tippecanoe the propriety of keeping the election of these officers separate, for there were several candidates for each place.

Mr. KELSO said, he preferred the old plan of electing one officer at a time. He would prefer that they should first elect the Principal Secretary, a gentleman whom the Convention might look to as the head of that department, and after the election of the principal officers in the three departments named, he would have them to employ as many assistants as their business respectively might require. Nothing had ever yet gone wrong under this mode of proceeding. He objected to the resolution as entirely too broad, and the amendment, he said, would only make it worse.

The question being taken on the amendment, it was rejected.

Mr. NAVE proposed to amend the resolution by striking out the word "three," and inserting

the word "two."

[Several voices—“No, no."]

Mr. BORDEN demanded a division of the question; but subsequently withdrew the demand.

Mr. SPANN said, a resolution had just been Mr. KELSO said, that to his mind this passed, providing that we should proceed under seemed to be a very strange mode of proceed-the rules of the House of Representatives, of ing-at one moment to adopt the rules of the House of Representatives, which require that all voting shall be by ballot, and in the next moment to adopt a resolution authorizing a viva

voce vote.

the last General Assembly, and he recollected no precedent for bundling up two, three, four, or five officers at a time in a single election.He trusted that the Convention would not agree to such a course now, but that they would


proceed to elect one officer at a time. thought the rules ought to apply, with special strictness, to everything connected with the organization of the Convention.

The PRESIDENT said, he knew of no rule that would prohibit the election of more than one officer at a time.

Mr. NAVE modified his amendment, proposing to insert instead of the word "two," the word "one."

Mr. KILGORE suggested that such an amendment would be incongruous with the latter part of the resolution.

Mr. READ, of Clark, moved that the Convention adjourn.

Mr. KILGORE and Mr. KELSO demanded

the yeas and nays upon the motion to adjourn. Mr. BORDEN desired to know to what hour the Convention would adjourn under this motion.

The PRESIDENT: The rules adopted by the resolution of this afternoon, fix the hour at 9 o'clock to-morrow morning.

The yeas and nays were then taken by the Secretary of State, who reported-yeas 37, nays 109; so the Convention again refused to adjourn.

Mr. RITCHIE rose and, stated that he had come up to the Convention to-day at a great sacrifice of feeling, on account of the indisposition of his son, and this would have to be his apology for returning home to-morrow. He came up merely to assist in the organization; and he wished to see the Convention organized to-night if possible. He hoped they would proceed with the election of the officers of the Convention, either by adopting the mode proposed by the gentleman from Hendricks, (Mr. Nave,) or by ballot. He rather thought, from the votes of some gentlemen, that they desired to adjourn in order that some action or some understanding might be had upon this subject, out of the Hall. He was in the habit of subscribing to the doctrine of caucuses, and if the Democratic party thought proper to caucus, he should be pleased to vote to adjourn for that purpose; but if not, he should prefer to proceed to the proper business of the Convention. He saw the names of a number of gentlemen placed before the body as candidates for the different places to be filled, and he believed that almost any one of the candidates for the Secretaryship, would make a good Secretary. He was not acquainted with any of them, and he should neither regret or rejoice much at the defeat or success of any. He believed that in most cases an election might be made on the first ballot.

Mr. KENT proposed to amend the original resolution by striking out all after the word "resolved," and inserting the following: "That the Convention proceed now to the election of a Principal Secretary."

Mr. NAVE said, that in order to perfect the original resolution more readily, he would withdraw his amendment, so as to give place to the amendment of the gentleman from Floyd, (Mr, Kent,) still expressing his preference, however. for a viva voce vote.

Mr. FOSTER proposed to amend the amendment of the gentleman from Floyd, by adding the words "two Assistant Secretaries, one Doorkeeper, and one Sergeant-at-Arms by a viva voce vote, in the order in which they are named." The amendment to the amendment was rejected.

Mr. KILGORE proposed to amend the amendment by adding the words: "by a viva voce vote;" which was also rejected.

The question being taken on Mr. KENT'S amendment, it was agreed to, and the resolution, as amended, was adopted.

Mr. KILGORE moved the adoption of the following:

Resolved, That in the election of Secretary, and other officers of the Convention, the vote be taken viva voce.

that kind had been already voted down by the Mr. KELSO remarked that a proposition of



this to be exactly the same proposition.
Mr. KILGORE said, he did not understand
contemplated the manner of the election of
officers besides the Secretary.

Mr. EDMONSTON moved to lay the resolution and amendments upon the table; but, before the motion was entertained by the Chair

Mr. PETTIT interposed another motion for adjournment; and the yeas and nays being demanded upon this motion by Mr. KILGORE and Mr. ROBINSON, they were taken by the Secretary of State, who reported - yeas 53, nays 91.

So the Convention again refused to adjourn. Mr. READ, of Clark, enquired: Whether, under the resolution just passed, the Convention was not compelled to go into the election of Principal Secretary immediately, unless that order was arrested by an adjournment.

The PRESIDENT replied affirmatively; but he added: That he understood that it was still competent for the body to prescribe the maned the motion of the gentleman from Delaner of voting, and, therefore, he had entertain


Mr. KILGORE said, that in order to accomodate the views of gentlemen he would withdraw his proposition.

The Convention then proceeded to the election of a Principal Secretary; Mr. BIDDLE and Mr. KENT acting as tellers.

The votes taken, the Secretary of State reported the result of three ballotings as follows:

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*The names of Jas. S. Buckles, And. J. Boone, and Geo. L. Sites, were severally withdrawn upon the determination of the 2d balloting.

The whole number of votes cast upon each ballot was 145-73 ballots being necessary to constitute an election, and it appearing, upon the determination of the third ballot that Wm. H. English, of the county of Scott, had received a majority of all the votes cast, he was declared to be duly elected to the office of Principal Secretary of the Convention, to serve in that capacity during the existence of the body. And, therefore, Mr. English being called, came forward and, being duly sworn by the Hon. ISAAC BLACKFORD, the Senior Judge of the Supreme Court of Indiana, proceeded to the discharge of the duties of his office.

Mr. KILGORE moved to refer the election of the residue of the officers of the Convention to a select committee; pending which motion, at 40 minutes past 4 o'clock, on motion of Mr. WOLF, the Convention adjourned.

TUESDAY MORNING, Oct. 8th., 1850. Mr. EDMUND D. TAYLOR, a delegate from the county of Laporte, appeared, produced his credentials and, being duly sworn by the Hon. ISAAC BLACKFORD, took his seat.

Mr. BORDEN introduced the following resolution:

Resolved, That Robert M. Evans, Herman G. Barkwell, and George L. Sites, be, and they are hereby appointed Assistant Secretaries to this Convention.

Mr. ROBINSON moved the following as a substitute:

Resolved, That in the opinion of this Convention one Principal and one Assistant Secretary will be amply sufficient to discharge all the duties growing out of the action of the Convention; and that the Convention now proceed to the election of one Assistant Secretary, and no more, who, together with the Principal Secretary elect, shall discharge the duties of Secretaries to this Convention.

the consideration of the subject and decide upon it at the present time as well as at any other. He did not think that two gentlemen could perform all the labor which would be required at the Secretary's desk. Supposing the Convention were to approve of the amendment with an eye to economy, he apprehended it would be that sort of economy which might be described as "penny wise and pound foolish." He admitted that it might be shown that but two Secretaries had been employed at the first, in the service of some Conventions; but their numbers in most cases had subsequently been increased to five or six by the appointment of assistants; and this larger number of Secretaries had been found necessary in Conventions composed of a much smaller number of Delegates than was here assembled. Here were 150 Delegates, and he submitted whether any gentleman could seriously suppose that two or three men would be sufficient to perform all the clerical service that would be required. If gentlemen would turn to the 14th section of the act under which the Convention was organized they would find the following provision: "That the proceedings of said Convention shall be deposited by the President and Secretary thereof, in the office of the Secretary of State, who shall file the same." Here, it seemed to be contemplated that the proceedings of the Convention should be entered in a book, as a perpetual memorial of the action of the body. He apprehended that it would be necessary to employ one clerk to make this permanent manuscript record, and three others to discharge the duties at the desk. The Ohio Convention required this to be done, and so did the Convention which formed the Constitution of the United States, over which George Washington presided. It might be that two persons could do all the clerical labor here, but he did not think it possible. He had before him the journal of the Convention which formed the present Constitution of Indiana; and he found there, that Wm. Hendricks was elected Secretary, and that on the next day the Convention elected two Assistant Secretaries, Robert N. New, and Jas. A. Turnstall, and that afterwards they elected three additional Assistants, making six Secretaries in all, to serve in a Convention composed of 42 members. In view of this fact if gentlemen could be satisfied that two Secretaries could do the business, let them vote for the amendment.

Mr. ROBINSON said, that he had offered his amendment because he believed it to be right and proper that such a provision should be adopted. He thought himself sufficiently exThe question being upon the amendment of-perienced in legislation to be able to decide corfered by the gentleman from Decatur, (Mr.rectly in regard to this matter. He affirmed Robinson,)

Mr. BORDEN remarked, that as another proposition had been submitted upon this subject, he supposed the Convention could proceed to

that there would not be one half the labor devolving upon the Secretaries of this body that was required to be performed by the clerks of any legislative body sitting the same length of

time. He thought the experience of the Chair would amply confirm and corroborate this assertion. Besides it was manifest that the duty of the Assistant Secretaries was nearly all included simply in copying the journal of the Convention. It might be that the journal of this body would be swelled to some considera- { ble extent; but the final result of the labors of the Convention, when it should all come to be condensed, arranged and printed, would hardly compose so large a volume of matter, as one of our ordinary corporation bills. The clerical labor of the Convention would consist chiefly in preparing and copying the journal, and in reading; whilst every year, in the Legislature, there were prepared and carried through all the forms of reading, engrossment, and enrollment, some twenty-five or thirty of those large corporation bills; and this was the reason why so many Assistants were required to be appointed. He considered this a correct view of the case, for he spoke more from experience than anything else.

Haddon, Holliday, Hamilton, Harbolt, Hardin, Helmer, Hendricks, Holman, Hovey, Howe, Huff, Johnson, Kelso, Kent, Kendall of Warren, Kindly, Lockhart, March, Mathers, May, McClelland, McFarland, McLean, Miller of Clinton, Miller of Gibson, Miller of Fulton, Milligan, Millroy, Mooney, Moore, Morrison of Marion, Mowrer, Murray, Nave, Newman, Niles, Nofsinger, Owen, Pepper of Ohio, Pettit, Rariden, Read of Clark, Read of Monroe, Ristine, Schoonover, Shannon, Sherrod, Shoup, Sims, Smiley, Snook, Smith of Ripley, Smith of Scott, Spann, Tague, Tannehill, Taylor, Trembly, Vanbenthusen, Wallace, Wheeler, Wiley, Wolf, Work, Wunderlich, Yocum, Zenor, and Mr. President-100.

NAYS-Allen, Badger, Ballingall, Barbour, Beard, Biddle, Blythe, Brookbank, Bryant, Butler, Clarke of Hamilton, Clark of Tippecanoe, Coats, Cole, Colfax, Crawford, Davis of Madison, Dunn of Jefferson, Farrow, Fisher, Frisbie, Gregg, Hawkins, Helm, Hitt, Hogan, Logan, Every State in which a Conven-Maguire, Mather, Morgan, Morrison of Washtion had been held, save the State of Newington, Pepper of Crawford, Prather, RobinYork, had taken precisely this course. A ju- son, Steele, Stevenson, Terry, Thomas, Thorndicious economy could be practised here as well ton, Todd, Walpole, and Watts-42. as in any other place.

So the amendments were laid upon the table. Mr. STEVENSON then moved to amend the resolution by substituting the following: Resolved, That the Convention now proceed to elect two assistant Secretaries.

Mr. BORDEN observed that if in the State Conventions which had been held in other States but two Secretaries had been elected, he would confess that he had been very much misinformed. But he was inclined to think The original resolution, he said, contemplathat the gentleman from Decatur was mistak- ted a different mode from that practiced by deen. The New York Convention elected two liberative bodies generally in the appointment Secretaries and in a few days authorized the ap- of their officers. It contemplated the appointpointment of one more. The Ohio Convention ment of three at one time. If it proposed apelected Mr. GILL principal Secretary, and Mr. pointing only one individual, a proper selection CARROLTON his assistant; and, in one or two might probably be made, but when it proposed days afterwards, authorized the Principal Sec- to appoint three at one time, it would be but retary to appoint another assistant, and then natural that men would be influenced in giving another.. their votes in favor of one or more of the parMr. STEELE moved to amend the amend-ties, by a desire to secure the election of their ment by adding the words "the addition] Secretaries if required."

Mr. MILLER, of Gibson, moved to lay both the amendments on the table.

Mr. PETTIT said, that he supposed if this motion prevailed, it would carry the original resolution also to the table.

The PRESIDENT stated that such would not be the case under the rules of the Indiana Legislature.

particular favorite and thus be lead to vote, perhaps, for the others without regard to the qualification or fitness for office of such others.

Thus it was that in legislative bodies sometimes an obnoxious measure was attached to a good one, in order to secure the passage of the former, which would not have passed if it had been left to depend upon its own merits. The principle was decidedly wrong. It was altogether a new one, and one which, he considered, it would be dangerous to adopt.

The yeas and nays were demanded upon this question by Messrs. PRATHER and ROBIN- The business of the Convention differed maSON, and being taken, the Clerk reported-terially from that of a State Legislature; there yeas 100, nays 42, as follows: would be no memorials, petitions, or remonstran- " YEAS-Messrs. Alexander, Anthony, Bascom, ces, to be acted upon. They were called toBeach, Beeson, Berry, Bicknell, Borden, Bourne,gether for the purpose of forming a ConstituBowers, Bracken, Bright, Carr of Jackson, Car- tion, an instrument occupying some ten or fifter, Chandler, Chapman, Chenowith, Cookerly, teen pages of the Statute Book. There could Davis of Parke, Davis of Parke and Vermil-not then, he thought, be anything like the lion, Dick, Dobson, Dunn of Perry, &c., Duzan, same amount of business to be done by the SecEdmonston, Foley, Foster, Garvin, Gibson, Goo-retary of the Convention, as by the Clerk tee, Graham of Miami, Graham of Warrick, of the General Assembly.

no objection; but he thought the best way was to make the appointments by resolution.

One hundred and fifty members would perform no more business than forty members would perform. One resolution only could be acted Mr. NAVE was in favor of the Convention upon at a time, no matter what the number of electing at once a sufficient number of officers, members might be. In regard to the consider-without making it necessary, hereafter, for the ation of economy, he had only to say that he was not for going to extremes either way, either in extravagance or parsimoniousness.

He was of the opinion that two Secretaries were quite sufficient. He was not disposed to interfere, however, with any arrangement that had been made out of doors; and he was inclined to go for democratic appointees. He was willing that they should all be democrats; but he was opposed to adopting a new principle in reference to their elections. He trusted that the mendment would be adopted.

Mr. DOBSON said, that in his opinion the amendment did not go far enough. He moved { an amendment to the effect that these officers should be elected and not appointed.

Mr. BASCOM moved to lay the amendment on the table.

Mr. KELSO hoped this matter might be compromised in such a way that the amendment by the gentleman from Owen might be adopted.— He was willing to vote for that. He hoped his friend would withdraw the motion to lay on the table.

Mr. STEVENSON said, he would accept the amendment leaving the number blank. Mr. BASCOM withdrew the motion to on the table.

Secretaries themselves to appoint assistants;{which was known to be the case in our State Legislature.

Mr. CLARK of T. said he rose to apologize to the gentleman from Allen, (Mr. Borden) for making the motion to reduce the number of Secretaries. He was willing to concur in the edict of those who had decided on three Secretaries out of this body; but not having heard the arguments that had been advanced, he had to discharge a duty to his constituents by fixing on a number he thought sufficient. He thought a vote should be taken here on the officers, although the final decision might have been made elsewhere.

Mr. EDMONSTON favored the election of three Secretaries, as the number best calculated to advance the business of the Convention. Mr. MILLER of Gibson, moved the previous question; which was not sustained.

The question was then taken on the motion to fill the blank with three, and it was agreed to.

The question being on the adoption of the resolution.

Mr. WATTS moved the following amendlayment, "that Samuel J. Johnson of Dearborn County be declared Door-keeper of this Con

Mr. KELSO then moved to fill the blank with {vention." "three."

Mr. CLARK of Tippecanoe, moved to fill the blank with "two.”

The PRESIDENT. The question will be first on the largest number.

The question being taken the amendment was not agreed to.

Mr. COCKERLY moved to amend the resolution by inserting the words "by viva voce vote."

The amendment was adopted.

The question was then taken on the amendment, as amended, and it was decided in the affirmative:

The question on the original resolution was then taken and decided in the affirmative. The resolution as amended was adopted;whereupon

The roll was called and the following gentlemen voted

Mr. FOSTER said he would remark to his Democratic friends that this would not be quite in accordance with the pledges they had given to their constituents. A great many pledges of economy had been given during the canvass.He thought they ought to manifest their faith by their practice. He for one felt a disposition to manifest his faith by his works. But that was not all. He believed that two Secretaries were amply sufficient. He had had some experience in matters of this kind, and he believed that the clerical duties of the Convention would FOR ROBERT M. EVANS: not be near as onerous as those of the Legisla- Messrs. Alexander, Allen, Anthony, Badger, ture. There was only the keeping of the jour-Ballingall, Barbour, Bascom, Beach, Beard, Beenal to be done; there was no enrolling of bills, son, Berry, Bicknell, Biddle, Blythe, Borden, and he would venture to say that if they per- Bourne, Bowers, Bracken, Bright, Brookbank, formed their work properly, the Constitution Bryant, Butler, Carr of Jackson, Carter, Chanwould not be equal in length to some of thedler, Chapman, Chenowith, Clark of Tippecaenrolled bills of the Legislature. He should vote for the amendment.

Mr. BORDEN opposed the amendment. He could see no necessity for going into the election by ballot unless the object was to defeat those gentlemen who had been nominated. If the election were to be by a viva voce vote he had

noe, Coats, Cole, Colfax, Cookerly, Crawford, Davis of Madison, Davis of Parke, Davis of Parke and Vermillion, Dick, Dobson, Dunn of of Perry, Dunn of Jefferson, Duzan, Edmonston, Farrow, Fisher, Foley, Foster, Frisbie, Garvin, Gibson, Gootee, Graham of Miami, Graham of Warrick, Haddon, Holliday, Hamilton,

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