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would say for one that he was not there to act a parsimonious part towards any of his fellow working men. He had no intention of grinding the printers down to the lowest cent. He desired that some good Democrat should have the printing at fair prices; and as the Democrats had the majority in the Convention, the question of printing could easily be decided. He was ready to take the responsibility of electing printers at the usual rates of remuneration for printing. They might just as well let out the offices of Secretary and Doorkeeper to the lowest bidder, as to let out the printing. He thought that the Convention had a right to choose their own Printer; and that they should give him fair and reasonable wages for his services. He would move the following amendment to the resolution offered by the gentleman from Carroll, viz: "That the Convention tomorrow at 10 A. M. proceed to the election of a Printer. The President ruled the motion out of order, and it was withdrawn.

Mr. FOSTER moved, to amend by striking out all after the resolving clause, and inserting "that a committee be raised to inquire on what terms the printing can be done, and that until that be done the Secretary shall get the printing done at the prices now paid the State Printer. The amendment was decided to be out of order.

Pending the question, on motion, the Convention adjourned.

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Secretary of State. Which letter and the proceedings and depositions therein referred to, were, upon the motion of Mr. Edmonston, laid on the table.

The PRESIDENT announced the unfinished business to be the resolution offered by the gentleman from Carroll, on the subject of printing.

Mr. KELSO desired to enquire if a claim had been put in by any one as being entitled to do the printing for the Convention. If there had been no such claim advanced of which cognizance could be taken by the Convention, he was for having an investigation made by a committee. Perhaps some of the delegates of this Convention, he said, could inform the Convention in regard to this matter.

Mr. CHAPMAN said, he supposed it was known to the members of the Convention gen

WEDNESDAY MORNING, Oct. 9th, 1850.erally, that he was the State Printer. And be

The Convention met pursuant to adjournment. The Chair announced the following as the committee on Rules, provided for in the resolution of Mr. Borden, adopted on Monday the 7th, viz:

From the 12th Judicial Circuit-Mr. BORDEN. From the 1st Judicial Circuit-Mr. PETTIT. From the 2d Judicial Circuit-Mr. READ of C. From the 3d Judicial Circuit-Mr. DUNN of J. From the 4th Judicial Circuit-Mr. HALL. From the 5th Judicial Circuit-Mr. WALLACE. From the 6th Judicial Circuit-Mr. SMILEY. From the 7th Judicial Circuit-Mr.STEVENSON. From the 8th Judicial Circuit-Mr. BIDDLE. From the 9th Judicial Circuit-Mr. WHEELER. From the 10th Judicial Circuit-Mr. DOBSON. From the 11th Judicial Circuit-Mr. March. From the 13th Judicial Circuit-Mr. Smith of R. And the Chair also announced the committee of three provided for on the resolution of Mr. Rariden, on the subject of procuring a more suitable room for the sittings of this Convention, to consist of the following gentlemen, to-wit:

Messrs. RARIDEN, KELSO, and MORRISON of Marion.

ing under contract as State Printer he of course considered himself bound to be prepared to do the printing for the Convention, and if he were not prepared to do it he had no doubt he would be liable to the penalty which the law imposed for the non-fullfilment of his contract. He could make no discrimination between printing ordered by the Convention, and that ordered by the Legislature, or by any State officer under the law. He held himself, therefore, in readiness to do the printing of the Convention as well as any other printing which might be necessary to be done on behalf of the State. He desired to know whether he was in error in supposing that the public printer had rights and privileges under his contract while under an obligation on his part to perform all the duty incumbent upon a public printer. That was the question.He wished to know whether an officer of the State, commissioned by the Governor, could be turned out of office by this Convention, or be deprived of any of the privileges appurtenant to his office. It appeared to him that they might as well undertake to turn him out of the seat which he held there as a member of the Convention, though in this he might be mistaken.

Having made this explanation, he desired also to ask the favor of the Convention, to be excused from voting upon any question relating to this matter. He did not want to give a vote upon any question in which he might be supposed to have any personal interest. If he were to vote he should of course give his vote with the same degree of conscientiousness as if he were voting upon any other question. He had thought it right to say this much, in regard to the proposition now before them, and he would not detain the Convention further than to repeat his desire to be excused from voting. Mr. KELSO said, he was satisfied that this resolution ought to pass, and an investigation be made. It was due to those who claim the

right to perform this duty, that the investigation should be made. There would be, of course, a difference of opinion about that right, and the opinion he held in regard to it, might be erroneous, and it was the more necessary therefore, that an investigation should be made. He hoped the resolution would be adopted.

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Mr. KILGORE. Well, sir, let it done nevertheless at the office of the State Printer.

Mr. CLARKE, of Tippecanoe, said: he had but he thought it would be proper that the Convery little objection to the resolution as it stood, vention should relieve the Secretary from responsibility, in regard to this matter. If those gentlemen who were appointed State Printers had no right to take it from them. He did not were entitled to do this work, the Convention led to it; but he was willing to vote that they wish to decide, however, that they were entishould do this printing in order to relieve the Secretary from that which he would find to be

a somewhat delicate task. Besides if those


ment of the gentleman from Delaware-and The question was then taken on the amendit was not agreed to.

Mr. BORDEN said, he had no objection to the first part of the resolution, that a Committee be appointed to enquire into the matter.But the second part of the resolution, which Gentlemen were entitled to do the work they directed the Secretary to employ a printer ad would have a legal claim to compensation for interim, appeared to him to be of more doubt-it. He was unwilling to disturb any vested ful propriety under the circumstances. If they were to direct the Secretary to employ a printer, and, as had been assumed, there was already a printer legally authorized to do the work, by official appointment, then the employment of another printer by the Secretary, would be in effect a violation of the contract with the person appointed as State printer. It appeared to him, therefore, that it would be better to strike out the latter part of the resolution.

Mr. DOBSON said, he did not see the necessity of delegating the power to the Secretary of the Convention, to employ a printer. They had made no order for the printing of anything,

as yet.

He hoped that so much of the resolution as authorized him to employ a printer, would be stricken out.

Mr. KELSO said, he was of the opinion that that part of the resolution ought to remain. It might be that the Secretary would not be required to perform the duty of employing a printer, but at the same time it was known to every member that there was work required to be done at this very moment. Printed lists of the names of members for taking the yeas and nays were required.

The PRESIDENT remarked, that he was informed by the Secretary that he was in want of such lists now.

Mr. KILGORE suggested, that the resolution should be modified so as to direct this work to be done at the office of the State Printer. His charges were regulated by law, whereas if the Secretary were directed to make a con

The question recurred on the adoption of the resolution.

Mr. KILGORE proposed to amend the resolution so as to authorize the Secretary to get the Printing done where it could be done the cheapest and the most expeditiously.

Mr. MORRISON said, that being a regular bred printer, and knowing that this matter had to go among his immediate constituents, he desired to say a few words in relation to it.

He was opposed to beginning a system of economy by reducing the wages of the mechanic who had to perform this labor, in order that they might show themselves the peculiar guardians of the Treasury of the people. He intended no demagogueism in relation to this matter, but he thought the laborer worthy of his hire, and he believed that no man who was at all conversant with the business of printing would say that the prices paid to the State Printer were too high; and he trusted that the Convention would not condescend to so small a business as to undertake to make a profit out of a few day's printing. Indeed, he thought it probable that there would be little or no printing done until the committee had time to report. He would not undertake to determine whether this Convention had the inherent right to elect its own printer, or whether the law creating a State Printer was obligatory upon the Convention. Under this view of the question he should most

decidedly vote against striking out any part of the resolution.

ferently situated from almost every other member of the Convention: he had come here for the sole purpose of serving the country, and had no predilection for any particular interest; he had no particular plan or scheme to advance. That being the position he occupied, he would go with his friend from Delaware, in the proposition he had made to give the printing of the Convention to the printer who would perform the work in the best manner and upon the most favorable terms. It was true that the honorable gentleman on his left (Mr. Chapman) had been appointed by the Legislature to do the State Printing; but he did not conceive that the Legislature in electing him to that office could have contemplated the performance of the work of the Convention, because in the act authorizing the call of the Convention, it was provided that the Convention should be entitled to elect their own officers. This was a Convention of the

Mr. KELSO said, that, according to his understanding, when a man made a bargain with his eyes open, his labor was worth just exactly what he undertook to do the work for, and he understood further that a printer was no better than any other mechanic, and that mechanics were no better than other people, except when they behave themselves better. It was probable that there would not be occasion for $10 worth of printing previous to the report of the committee being made, and he thought it would be quite as well to let the Secretary make his own bargain, and get the work done where he could get it done the soonest. He was for paying a fair price, and whoever was acquainted with his course ever since he had had the honor of occupying a seat in the Legislature of the State, in this end of the Capitol and in the other, knew that he would be the last man to un-people, and it was their duty to act with a view dertake to undervalue the services of any man, or to reduce his pay below what those services were worth. He was, however, for admitting a fair competition, and for allowing printers to make their propositions, and for permitting the Secretary to get the work done on fair terms.

to economy. He hoped the amendment would be adopted.

Mr. BASCOM said, he rose not to discuss the legality of the claim of the State Printer to do the printing of the Convention, but to combat in the outset, as he should do at all times, the system of letting out the public printing by contract. Gentlemen who had so great a regard for economy, were, in such a case as this, embarrassing themselves unnecessarily. He was in favor of economy, but not at the expense of the laboring community. In giving the work to the lowest bidder, they were but putting money into the hands of the contractors, at the expense of those who performed the labor. If gentlemen would turn to the House Journals they would find letters from practical printers of this State-and among others from Mr. Defrees-who appeared to be anxious to get a nibble at this printing, in relation to this subject. [Mr. Bascom read a brief abstract from one of the letters referred to.]

Mr. NAVE said, there were several points that ought to be understood before voting upon the proposition. They ought to be informed as to the legal rights of the present contractors for the public printing. It was important, before taking any step towards the employment of a printer, to ascertain whether the existing contract for the public printing was binding upon the Convention. If it was binding upon the Convention, the Public Printer would be entitled to be paid for the work, and if this was the case he took the ground that the Convention had no right to employ any other person for a single hour than the State Printer. Until this question was settled therefore, in reference to whether the contract was binding upon the Convention, it appeared to him that no other printer ought to be employed, because if they proceeded to appoint an individual to do the printing of the Convention before that question was settled, it might prove to be a violation of the contract made by the State with the State Printer, and he would have a right to institute a suit at law for the purpose of maintaining his If the interests of any portion of the comlegal rights, and thus the State would be in- munity are to be preferred to those of anvolved unnecessarily in litigation. He was not other, the interest of the laborer should be prefor interfering with the rights of individuals, ferred. Wherever the contract system had either those now employed by the State or any been tried it had been found to be prejudicial others, and it was perfectly immaterial to him to the laborer as well as to the Government, who were the persons who had been elected and the work had invariably been done in a State Printers. This was a question which revery inferior manner-the material was necesquired investigation, and no man ought to besarily inferior, and the work inferior. There employed to print for the Convention until the question was settled.

Mr. STEELE said, he should vote for the motion to strike out, and he desired to assign the reason for that vote. He was perhaps dif

and to throw the printing into the market to be When they undertook to cut down the prices hawked about and given to the lowest bidder, they were acting in direct contravention of the interest of the laborer, and depriving him of a reasonable remuneration for his labor.

was no man who understood anything about printing who would rise and say that too high a price was paid for the printing for the State. It appeared to him that it was not the proper policy to undertake to get the work done more

cheaply than the Public Printer would do it. He was entirely opposed to the proposition.

Mr. KILGORE withdrew his amendment. Mr. STEELE enquired if the resolution was still open to amendment.

The PRESIDENT replied that it was open to amendment.

{ at the expense of the State, and to this end we respectfully decline the services of a Stenographer tendered us by the Legislature.

Mr. OWEN offered the following as a substitute for the resolution of the gentleman from Jefferson:

Resolved, That in compliance with the proMr. STEELE said, he would renew the visions of the act, providing for a call of the amendment of the gentleman from Delaware. Convention of the people of the State of InHe desired that the work should be done where diana, to revise, amend, and alter the Constituit could be done the cheapest and most expedition of said State, which directs the appointtiously. His understanding of the act author-ment of a competent Stenographer by the izing the call of a Convention, was that it gave Governor of the State, to report their debates, them power to elect all their officers. That the appointment made by the Governor, of being the case he was inclined to act directly Harvey Fowler, of Washington City, for that in accordance with it. purpose, be, and the same is hereby, recognized and approved.

Mr. MAGUIRE said, he hoped the gentleman would withdraw the amendment for the Resolved, That the certificate of the Presipresent. He could renew his proposition if he dent of the Convention, as provided in said act, thought proper after the report of the commit-be from time to time issued to the said Harvey tee was made.

Mr. STEELE said, he had no objection to withdraw the amendment.

Fowler for his remuneration, which shall be at the usual rate of compensation for reporting the debates in the Congress of the United States.

The PRESIDENT remarked, that under the 32d rule of the House the proposition of the gentleman from Posey could not be moved as a substitute for the resolution of the gentleman from Jefferson.

The amendment was accordingly withdrawn. Mr. FOSTER said, he was sorry that the amendment was withdrawn. He had himself proposed a Buncombe resolution yesterday and unfortunately the chair had decided that it was out of order for irrevalency or incongruity, and consequently his resolution did not appear in print. He rose now merely to express his sor-substitute, then, for the present, until the resorow that it was not published, so that it might lution of the gentleman was disposed of, and go to his constituents. he thought there would be but little difficulty or hesitation about disposing of it by voting it down.

The question being taken on the resolution of the gentleman from Carroll, it was adopted. The PRESIDENT laid before the Convention the following communication from His Excellency, GOVERNOR WRIGHT:

EXECUTIVE DEpartment, . {
October 9, 1850.)



Mr. OWEN said he would withdraw the

Mr. GREGG said, that, in offering this resolution, he begged leave to assure the Convention it was not intended for Buncombe, but was the result of a sincere and thorough conviction of duty. He believed that its adoption would tend greatly to facilitate our public labors here, while it would be the means of a very considerable saving of expense, and withIn pursuance of the act of the General As-out working any, the least detriment to the sembly, approved January 18, 1850, providing for the call of a Convention, I have appointed and commissioned HARVEY FOWLER, Stenographer, to report the debates of said Conven


President of the Convention:

I have the honor to be,

public interest, or discredit to this body, either individually or collectively.

In the organization of this Convention, we have elected certain officers, whose duty it will be to keep a regular journal of all our proceedings from day to day; and this journal, together with that organic law which may result from our deliberations will necessarily have to be pub{lished and circulated at the public expense, that our constituents may know what we, their pubMr. GREGG offered the following preamblelic servants, have been doing here; and if our and resolution:

Yours, most respectfully, JOSEPH A. WRIGHT. The communication having been read by the Secretary

works speak well of us, it is all that is necessary-further than this, I am unwilling to tax the public treasury for their enlightenment.

WHEREAS, It is desirable to complete the work delegated to us by the people with as little delay as possible, and with an eye to the It is an old but trite adage, that a man should strictest economy consistent with the honor of cut his coat according to his cloth. It is equally this body, and the interest of those whom we true that a prudent man should always live represent. Therefore, within his income. This certainly holds good Resolved, That we deem it inexpedient to re-in matters of domestic economy, and why not port and publish the debates of this Convention apply it to public affairs? Now, the Legisla

would necessarily tend to protract the session a result I most sincerely deprecate, as my private business demands my attention elsewhere, and I doubt not it is equally so with many others.

ture has undertaken to give us the whole cloth from which to cut the garment. They have shown us the size of our pile, and it becomes us as prudent husbandmen to graduate our expenses accordingly. They have appropriated the sum of $40,000 to pay the whole expenses And do you ask, why the employment of a of this Convention, including the pay of a Stenographer to report our debates should Stenographer, the necessary printing and sta- necessarily prolong the session? You know, tionery-and doubtless they conceived this to Mr. President, and so do every one of us, that be a most munificent and bountiful appropria- mankind are naturally garrulous, fond of contion, altogether adequate to the ends to be ac- troversial debate and litigation-and give them complished. Now let us see how far this ap- a loose rein, and a proper incentive to action, propriation will carry us, under the most prù- and they will talk forever. There is a wonderdent and economical system that we can adopt.ful proclivity in the human mind for immortaliThe daily expenses of this Convention will be ty; an innate grasping after fame and notoover $500, exclusive of printing and stationery. riety; an insatiable longing for a name to live This in sixty days will amount to $30,000.when we are dead. Such is the phantom we The mileage of members will be about $4,000 are now following; and to most of us it will more, making $34,000-thus leaving but $6,- prove as evanescent and unsubstantial, as the 000 of the appropriation to pay for printing the "baseless fabric of a vision." But still we foljournal of our proceedings, a large edition of low it-blindly pursue it, through all the dethe constitution in pamphlet form, for circula-vious windings of this mortal career. tion among the people, together with such other printing as may be deemed necessary in the progress of our labors; a sum which I fear will be found altogether inadequate to foot the bill.

Now here are at least 150 of us, all deeply imbued with the same perhaps laudable, ambition to do something to immortalize our names, and transmit them to posterity; and it is quite natural that we should seek to avail ourselves of Now this calculation, you will perceive, is this golden opportunity, now offered us to do so. based upon the supposition that our session And how is this desirable end to be attained? will last but sixty days. And, although it is Why sir, each of us have got to set our wits to the opinion of many gentlemen, both in and work, to concoct a speech-no matter on what out of this Convention, that we shall not be subject, nor how irrelevant it may be to the subable to get through in less than three or four ject matter under consideration, so it be of sufmonths, still, I undertake to say, that if we ad- ficient length, and full of sound and fury, sigdress ourselves to the work as we should do, nifying nothing. These speeches must neceswithout wasting too much of our time in mak-sarily be reported by the Stenographer, and ing unnecessary speeches for home consump- by him written out for the Press, for no one tion, we shall be able to complete our labors in { else but he can do it. And these speeches, I less than sixty days to the entire satisfaction of take it, will occupy about one day of the sesthe people and to the credit of ourselve, sand sion to each, provided they be of sufficient on the score of expense, within the appropria-length to occupy one hour to one hour and a tion made by the Legislature. But, sir, let us quarter in their delivery. I say we will not be adopt the course plainly indicated by the Legis- able to get through more than one of these set lature. Let us admit upon this floor the Ste- speeches per day, for that will be as much as nographer so kindly provided for us by his Ex- any one Stenographer can possibly manage to cellency, the Governor, with the understanding take down and write out, and do justice to himthat all the speeches made here are to be re-self, unless he has a constitution like a steam ported at large, and published in a book, for the benefit of our constituents, and the enlightenment of posterity-and I will not attempt to set bounds to the duration of our session, nor limit to its expense. I profess to be a practical printer, and know something about what it costs. And let me assure you that more than one half of the appropriation will be absorbed in paying for the publication of our speeches, and other documents, and we shall have little left to pay our current expenses here, without asking for a further appropriation, which I am unwilling to do.

But the matter of expense is not the only objection to be considered. I take it that the employment of one single Stenographer on this floor (and that is all the law provides for)

locomotive, that can go ahead forever and never tire. Like the rest of us, he must have his hours of relaxation from labor, of recreation, and of rest, or he will soon wear out-and then we will be thrown back upon our own resources, and have to do our own reporting. The necessary consequence then would be, that we must accommodate our movements to his convenience, or some of our most brilliant efforts would be wholly lost to the world—a calamity! aye, a public calamity, not to be thought of for a moment.

Thus you perceive that to make but one set speech round on the general average, would require a session of 150 days, or about six months. And I fear, sir, that many of us will not be satisfied with any thing short of the

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