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appropriate sub-committee to arrange the principle in its details. But according to the rule preferred by the gentleman from Hendricks, the proposition would be first referred to a sub

it to the Convention. After that the Convention would have to decide upon the principle, and if the principle were rejected in whole or in part, the work of the sub-committee would be useless. According to his notion, it would be a waste of time to take this course. It was his proposition, that the opinion of the Convention upon every principle should be first had in committee of the whole, in order that the standing committees might know distinctly how to act.

thought the whole subject ought to be divided, and appropriately distributed amongst several standing committees. with the view of introducing such amendments as might be deemed necessary. He desired the most mature delib-committee-that committee would report upon eration on every division of the subject; first, before the standing committees, and then in in committee of the whole Convention. He relied upon the standing committee for the most important duties. He recollected a gentleman speaking to him of the Louisiana Constitutional Convention, which met several years ago, in April, at a small town somewhere in the interior of the State; and in the warm weather, rather than occupy their convention room, they were in the habit of going out by committees into the adjoining groves to hold their consultations. Reclining there in the shade, they would talk over the business before them; and, he was assured by the gentleman, that some of the best features of the Louisiana Constitution were proposed and drawn up in this way; and that when, afterwards, they spent several months in the city of New Orleans, where they were attended by Stenographers, with ready nipped pens, every thing was done for Buncombe, and nothing could be affected for the people, worthy of the occasion that brought them together.

Mr. EDMONSTON said, he could not see the force of the reasoning of the gentleman from Gibson. Was it not the gentleman's proposition, first, that every subject should be referred to the committee of the whole Convention, then to be returned to the Convention, and then to be referred again to the standing committees ?

The PRESIDENT. The Chair understands that a subject may or may not be referred. The Secretary, if the gentleman desires it, will read the resolution.

The resolution was accordingly read by the Secretary.

standing committee. He was unable to make anything else out of it; and this he considered would be occupying more time than there was any necessity for. He preferred the practice by which the Convention might refer any part of the Constitution to a standing committee, and instruct them particularly in relation to it; for when a committee received instructions from the Convention it became their duty to act according to those instructions.

Mr. HALL said, that he was one of the committee appointed by the Chair, to aid in drafting the rules; but he was totally unacquainted with Mr. EDMONSTON said, that if he underthe reasons which induced the appointment of stood the meaning of words, the resolution prothat committee. He confessed that he neither posed that, after the discussion of a proposition understood the resolution under which the com- in committee of the whole, it was to be returnmittee was appointed, nor the explanation justed to the Convention, and then referred to a given. The gentleman from Hendricks (Mr. Nave) seemed to think that under the resolution which he (Mr. H.) had offered, they were to dispense with everything like the labor of standing committees. The gentleman was wholly mistaken; such was not the object, nor the language of the resolution. The object was that no subject should be referred to any standing committee, until after it had been discussed in committee of the whole. It was certainly contemplated by all, that there should be several sub-committees appointed by the Convention, for the purpose of taking the various matters into consideration, after they should have been considered in committee of the whole. He was not wedded to any particular proposition, but this discussion had only the more convinced him of the necessity of the rule he had suggested. He gave an instance of its operation: the people of the county of Gibson, whom he represented here, had been in convention upon the subject of amendments to the Constitution, and one of their resolutions of instruction to him was, to recommend the proposition that the Legislature should prohibit lotteries in this State; now, this proposition, under the rule he had suggested, would be referred, first, to the committee of the whole, and after their action in reference to the principle, it would be referred next to the

This, it seemed to his mind, was the more correct, and it certainly was the shortest way of doing business. By the new rule proposed, the same ground might have to be fought over as many as two or three times upon every proposition.

Mr. PETTIT said, he did not intend to delay the business of the Convention, and he would detain them but a very few minutes. Before he sat down he thought he should move to lay the subject upon the table, with the view of taking up the resolution offered by him on yesterday and the amendment of the gentleman from Monroe (Mr. Read,) with reference to the transaction of business. He doubted not that the design of the gentleman from {Gibson was a good one. If it had been his design that no subject should be reported upon until after the principle had been discussed and

subject of committees; which motion was decided in the affirmative.

proceedings of conventions held in other states, that a similar course of procedure had been adopted.

decided by the Convention, that would have the Convention progresses they would become certainly been proper and correct enough. acquainted with the habits of each other, and But the gentleman seemed to think the Con- know better the aptness and fitness of men for vention should raise a committee of the whole, { places upon these committees; and they would in which every proposition should be first con- also know better how many and what kind of sidered. That would not be parliamentary. committees they would require. And for the The committee of the whole could have no purpose of taking up this resolution, to which control over the standing committees of the he had referred, he moved to lay the resoluConvention. The gentleman's doctrine was, tion of the gentleman from Gibson on the table. that no subordinate committee should report Mr. PETTIT then moved to take from the upon any subject until it should first be dis- table the resolution submitted by him on yescussed in Convention. That sub-committeesterday, with the pending amendments, on the should be organized upon various subjects and then instructed by the Convention as to the matter upon which they were to report. He Mr. READ of Monroe, observed, that in oftook for illustration, the proposition that there fering his resolution on yesterday, it was with should be no Grand Juries in the State. That no desire to be appointed chairman of the would be a subject to be reported upon by select committee proposed to be raised. On the legislative committee. He would sup- the contrary it was his intention, had his pose this subject to be appropriately referred, motion prevailed, to have had himself excusand then that the question should come up for ed from acting in that capacity. They discussion in the Convention upon a proposi- had secured their organization on yesterday, tion to instruct the committee upon that sub-and had raised a committee on rules and regject by resolution. It was not requisite that a ulations; and as the next thing to be done was subject should go to the committee of the whole to arrange some definite plan for the business and be there discussed and reported to the Con- of the convention, he had brought forward the vention and there take a tangent route and go resolution that had been so liberally commentto a sub-committee to be considered and report-ed upon. He had found upon examining the ed again to the House? The committees were bound to act in conformity with such instructions; and after their reports were made to the Convention every subject would still be open The first thing that had been done in the to discussion and amendment; or they might convention held in New York, in 1821, was to be discussed and amended in committee of the appoint a committee on rules and regulationswhole, and after that go again into the Con- the committee being instructed simply to revention for final action. But he wished not to port rules and regulations for the government detain the Convention; he desired to have the of the convention. This was the mode also committees organized, and then it could be de-adopted in the convention held in the same termined whether it should require two-thirds state in 1846. Another committee was then or a majority vote to adopt a resolution of in-raised to determine upon the best plan for restruction. A majority, he supposed, should al-vising the constitution. This mode of proways carry a question. But this resolution ceeding was also adopted in the Ohio convenwas out of order at this time, entirely; he tion. It appeared to him, therefore, that the should, therefore, without intending any dis- first business after they had secured their orrespect to the gentleman introducing it, pres-ganization and appointed a committee to draft ently move to lay the resolution and amend- rules for their government, was to organize a ment on the table. He should make this mo- committee who should report some definite tion for the purpose of taking up the resolu- plan of action. In the convention of 1821, tions to which he had before referred and which this committee was regarded as the most imhad been temporarily laid on the table on yes-portant committee that could be raised, and its terday. It would be recollected that one of members were composed of the ablest men in these propositions proposed three standing com- the convention. It should be borne in mind, mittees; it did not preclude a large number. that in adopting a plan of that kind, they were Every one knew from the structure of this gov-determining the character and extent of the ernment that it was expedient to have at least three standing committees-one upon the legislative department, one upon the executive department, and another upon the judiciary. He cared not how many more there might be. This course was first suggested by the gentle- { man from Wayne, (Mr. Rariden,) and he thought there was great propriety in adopting this resolution, for, as it had been already suggested by that gentleman, as the business of

business itself, and therefore, the sooner such committee was constituted, the more speedily they would be enabled to enter upon the busi{ness they had to transact.

Mr. OWEN remarked, that he was in favor of adopting the amendment. It was true, as the gentleman from Tippecanoe had said, that three committees, having supervision respectively, of the judicial, legislative, and executive departments of the state government,

must be appointed, but it was equally certain that more than that number would be required. They would require a committee on the Militia, one on Education, one on Currencies and Banking, and one on Corporations other than Banking. While acting upon the subject, therefore, he thought it would be better to pass a resolution providing for the organization of all the committees that were necessary. It appeared to him that a committee thus empowered to raise the standing committees could bring in their report easily in the course of two or three days.

remark, he added, had been practicably exemplified in this convention on yesterday and today. He was considerably amazed at the observations which had been made from the path of strict argument yesterday and to-day-they reminded him very forcibly of an anecdote of a methodist preacher, a man of considerable talent, who upon one occasion, while he was traveling in Kentucky, stopped in a certain neighborhood and delivered a sermon to the white residents. In the evening he agreed to visit a meeting of negroes, where some celebrated negro preachers were to hold forth. He went there without any intention of preaching, but the negroes found out who he was and insisted that he should give them an exhortation. He accordingly took the stand and occupied the evening in a manner very acceptable to himself, for he considered that he had preached a very excellent sermon. After he had sat down, one of the negro preachers arose and made the remark "dat de white brudder had talked away a long time in a blundering man

to charge gentlemen with talking in a "blundering manner," but he would say that they had been talking "after a fashion."

While up he would suggest to his friend from Gibson, (Mr. Hall,) for whose judgment he had very great respect, that if any proposition at all similir to his were adopted, it would exclude a very laudable custom that was prevalent in all conventions, one which as far as he was concerned, he could not consent to yield or dispense with; he referred to the practice of voting resolutions of enquiry. It struck him very forcibly that there would be found to be ten subjects that were worthy of investiga-ner, after a fashion." He would not undertake tion to one that was worthy of adoption. To present resolutions of enquiry upon particular subjects was always customary. He would not oppose the amendment of the gentleman from Gibson, if he had made provision that no resolution should go before any of the standing committees, until it had first been submitted to the Convention. This would prevent any delegate from going to a committee with a propesition he desired to offer, so that it would come before the convention either as a resolution of enquiry or instruction. With a modification to that effect, he would be content with the gentleman's amendment.


The gentleman from Tippecanoe was desirous of raising three committees ; his colleague from Monroe wished to raise only one. amendment offered by his colleague met with his (Mr. F's.) hearty concurrence. If, as was proposed, three mammoth committees were to be appointed there would be a general scramble for the office of Chairman of those committees, and, he was inclined to think that there was talent enough in the Convention to authorize the appointment of a larger number of comMr. PETTIT said, that in order to test the mittees and consequently a more general and matter, he would move that the amendmend-equitable division of the offices. He could ment offered to his resolution be laid on the table.

The question being taken upon the motion to lay the amendment on the table, it was decided in the negative.

The question recurring upon the adoption of the amendment,

not but think that the best mode of expediting the business of the Convention, was, to adopt the amendment offered by his colleague. The question was taken upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Dubois (Mr. Edmonston) to the amendment of the gentleman from Monroe (Mr. Read) to fill the blank with the words "one from each Congressional District ;" and it was rejected.

Mr. MAGUIRE moved to amend the amendment by filling the blank with the words, "two from each Congressional District."

Mr. FOSTER remarked, that a great deal had been said that day with reference to the committee of the whole; and a great deal also, The question then recurring upon the amendthat had no connection whatever with the bus-ment of the gentleman from Monroe to the iness before them. Some fifteen or twenty resolutions offered by the gentleman from Tipyears ago, said Mr. F., when Foote's celebra- pecanoe (Mr. Pettit.) ted resolution was under discussion in committee of the Whole in the House of Representatives of the United States, it was remarked in the course of the debate, that they might talk about anything in God's earth, above the earth, or under the earth-they might talk of anything in the animal, vegetable, or mineral kingdom, but that nothing should be said with respect to the question under consideration. (Laughter.) It was altogether out of order to touch upon the subject before the House. This

The question was taken upon the motion of the gentleman from Marion (Mr. Maguire) and` it was agreed to.

The question then being upon the amendment as amended.

It was decided in the affirmative.

Mr. KILGORE offered the following resolution.

WHEREAS, In the opinion of this Convention, the people of Indiana, under their present wholesome Constitution, have obtained an enviable position amongst the States of this Union, and now enjoy a degree of prosperity and general happiness, of which they may well be proud: AND WHEREAS, we are admonished by the elements by which we are surrounded, and which are apparent in our midst, that there is great danger in an effort to amend the organic law, of deranging our present wholesome system, or supplanting it by one less acceptable to the people of the State; Therefore,

Resolved, That we recommend to the people of the State the present Constitution, as proposed by their Delegates in A. D. 1816, and adopted by the people. And that this Convention now adjourn sine die.

A motion being made by Mr. WOLFE to lay the resolution on the table; the ayes and noes were demanded by two members.

Those who voted in the affirmative were Messrs. Alexander, Allen, Anthony, Badger, Barbour, Bascom, Beach, Beard, Beeson, Berry, Bicknell, Biddle Blythe, Bourne, Brookbank, Butler, Carr, of Jackson, Carter, Chandler, Chapman, Clark, of Hamilton, Clark, of Tlppecanoe, Coats, Cole, Colfax, Crawford, Davis, of Madison, Davis, of Parke, Davis, of Vermillion, Dick, Dobson, Dunn, of Perry, &c., Duzan, Edmonston, Farrow, Fisher, Foley, Foster, Garvin, Gibson, Gootee, Gordon, Graham, of Miami, Gregg, Haddon, Hall, Holliday, Hamilton, Harbolt, Hardin, Hawkins, Helm, Helmer, Hendricks, Hitt, Hogin, Holman, Ho vey, Howe, Huff, Johnson, Jones, Kent, Kendall, of Wabash. Kendall, of Warren, Kindley, Lockhart,Logan,Maguire,March, Mather, Mathis, May, McClelland, McFarland, McLean, Miller, of Clinton, Miller, of Gibson, Miller, of Fulton, Milligan, Milroy, Mooney, Moore, Morgan, Morrison, of Marion, Morrison, of Washington, Mowrer, Murray, Nave, Newman, Niles, Nofsinger, Owen, Pepper, of Ohio, Pepper of Crawford, Pettit, Read, of Clark, Read, of Monroe, Ristine, Robinson, Schoonover, Shannon, Sherrod, Shoup, Sims, Smiley, Snook, Smith, of Ripely, Smith, of Scott, Spann, Stevenson, Tague, Taylor, Terry, Thomas, Thornton, Trembly, Vanbenthusen, Wallace, Wheeler, Wiley, Wolfe, Work, Wunderlich, Zenor, and Mr. President.-126.

Those who voted in the negative were Messrs. Borden, Bowers, Chenowith, Frisbie, Kelso, Kilgore, Prather, Steele, Tannehill Todd, and Watts.-11.

So the resolution was laid upon the table.


Mr. SHERROD moved, that the Assistant Doorkeepers be appointed by the President.

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The resolution of the gentleman from Orange (Mr. Sherrod) was then withdrawn.

Mr. HALL offered the following resolutions: 1st. That Judges and all other officers, shall be elected by the people.

2. That corporations shall be created under a general law, individual liability, to the extent of stock, shall be imposed. The issue of bills of credit for general circulation shall be prohibited. No banking privileges shall be grantber of Branches, properly restricted. ed except to a State Bauk, and a limited num-

3. That special legislation shall be prohibited. No act shall embrace more than one subject and that shall be expressed in the title. Upon the final passage of every bill in either House, the "yeas" and "nays" shall be entered upon the journals, and no act of the General Assembly shall be in force until after its publication in print and distribution among the people.

4. That the Legislature shall be prohibited from granting divorces, and from establishing


5. That the Legislature shall be prohibited from borrowing money upon the faith of the State, without the consent of the people expressed through the ballot-box.

6. That the Legislature shall meet biennially, but may be convened by the governor in cases of emergency.

7. That all fines aforesaid, for any breach of the penal law, shall be applied to the support of

common schools.

8. That all distinction between proceedings in courts of law and equity, shall be abolished; as also all distinction between different kinds of action.

9. That the House of Representatives shall consist of one hundred members, and the Senate shall be composed of fifty members: Provided, the members in either House may be diminished by Legislative enactment.

10. That all elections by the General Assembly or either branch thereof, shall be determined by a plurality of the votes given; which resolution was laid on the table by consent.


The resolutions were ordered to lie on the ta

Mr. KELSO offered the following resolution: Resolved, That it is hereby made the duty of the President of this Convention to appoint messengers to this Convention, of whom the duty of one shall be to see and attend to mail

ing all letters, papers, documents, &c., designed for the mails, from the members and officers of this body, and to receive and deliver to said members and officers, all matters sent them through the post office during the sitting of this Convention; which was referred, on motion of Mr. Clark, of Tippecanoe, to the committee on rules.

Mr. SHOUP offered the following resolution: Resolved, That the State Librarian be directed to procure three copies each of the following works: The Debates or Journals of the New York, Kentucky, and Wisconsin Conventions; also three copies of the American Constitution, and when procured, to be placed and kept at the Clerk's desk in this Hall, for the use of the members of this Convention; which was adopted.

On motion of Mr. Edmonston, the Convention adjourned until to-morrow morning 9 o'clock.

THURSDAY, Oct. 10,1850.

The Convention met pursuant to adjourn


A communication was laid before the Convention by the President, announcing the acceptance by the Clergymen of the city of the invitation of the Convention to open the same each day with prayer, and announcing the order in which they would attend.

Mr. PETTIT gave notice that he would on Monday next, or on some subsequent day, introduce a resolution instructing the committee on the Judiciary to bring in a provision abolishing the Grand Jury system, and substituting public examinations in its place.

Mr. PETTIT offered the following resolu


Resolved, That it shall not be in order to move any resolution of instructions to any standing committee requiring any provisions of the Constitution to be brought in, without first giving at least two days previous notice of such resolution.

(Objection was made by several gentlemen.) Mr. PETTIT said, he thought that a moments reflection would convince gentlemen of the propriety of such a resolution. If such a rule of proceeding were adopted, when an important proposition was to be introduced, it would not be sprung upon them, at a time when there would be no apportunity for reflection, but gentlemen would be apprised in advance, and be enabled to prepare themselves for opposition to it, if it were such a proposition as they disapproved. It did not prohibit resolutions of enquiry from being moved at any time, but applied only to resolutions positively instructing a committee to report certain provisions, altering the Constitution. He thought that its opperation would have a wholesome effect and that it ought to be adopted.

Mr. EDMONSTON said, he agreed with the gentleman from Tippecanoe, that notice ought to be given of all propositions of that charac

The Chair announced the select committee provided for in the resolution of Mr. Read, of Monroe, adopted on yesterday, on the subject of committees to consist of the following gentle-ter though he was of the opinion that two days


Mr. READ, of Monroe,

1st. Congressional District-Messrs. OWEN and EDMONSTON;

2d. Congressional District-Messrs. KENT and CARR, of Jackson;

3d. Congressional District-Messrs: BERRY and HOLMAN;

4th. Congressional District-Messrs. NEWMAN and TREMBLY;

5th. Congressional District-Messrs. TANNEHILL and MAGUIRE;

6th. Congressional District-Mr. TERRY; 7th. Congressional District-Messrs. COOKERLY and DAVIS, of Parke;

8th. Congressional District-Messrs. BRYANT and PETTIT;

9th. Congressional District-Messrs. NILES and MILLER, of Fulton;

10th. Congressional District-Messrs. KILGORE and MAY.

The Chair also announced the select committee as provided in the resolution of Mr. Milroy, on the subject of Printing, adopted on yesterday:

Messrs. MILROY, DUNN of Perry, BIDDLE, LOGAN, THORNTON, Lockhart, and Kariden.

was longer than was necessary, and with the permission of the gentleman, he would move to strike out two, and insert one.

Mr. PETTIT said, that if any considerable portion of the Convention desired to change the time to one day, he wonld consent.

Mr. EDMONSTON suggested that his object in making the motion was to save time.

Mr. DOBSON said, that this resolution seemed to be anticipating the action of the committee which had been announced this morning, and of which the gentleman from Monroe was chairman, whose special business it was to announce the committees.

Mr. PETTIT said, if the gentleman will allow me, I will move the reference of this resolution to the committee on rules.

The question being put upon this motion it was agreed to.

Mr. DOBSON. The gentleman has anticipated me. I rose for the purpose of moving its reference to the committee of which the gentleman from Monroe is chairman. I now move that it be referred to that committee.

The PRESIDENT stated that the resolution had been referred, and that the gentleman's motion was not now in order.

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