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I desire to read a statement which appeared in the Parliamentary Debates in the House of Commons on March 4, 1918. [Reading:]

Mr. King asked the Secretary for Foreign Affairs whether there have been communicated to President Wilson copies of all treaties, whether secret or public, and memoranda of all other agreements or undertakings to which this country has become a party since 4th August, 1914; and if not, whether copies of all such documents will be handed to the American ambassador in London.

Mr. BALFOUR. The honorable member may rest assured that President Wilson is kept fully informed by the Allies.

You would understand from that that these secret agreements had been made known to the President?

Secretary LANSING. I should dislike very much to interpret the language of Mr. Balfour.

Senator BORAH. It does not need much interpretation, does it? Senator HITCHCOCK. What was the date of that?

Senator BORAH. March 4, 1918. When did this Government make known to China the existence of these secret agreements ?

Secretary LANSING. I do not know as the Government ever made them known to China, because China had delegates at Paris, and I assume that she was more or less cognizant of the agreements at the same time that we were.

Senator BORAH. Notwithstanding the statement of Ishii and the statement of Mr. Balfour, it is a matter of fact that the Secretary of State of the United States had no knowledge of these treaties until after the signing of the armistice, is it not?

Secretary LANSING. That is true.
Senator BORAH. That is all.

Senator BRANDEGEE. You said the other day, Mr. Secretary, if I recall correctly, that you would have made the so-called Lansing-Ishii agreement just the same if you had known that these secret treaties were in existence ?

Secretary LANSING. Yes.

Senator BRANDEGEE. Involving the turning over of Shantung, or the rights in Shantung, to Japan?

Secretary LANSING. Yes.

Senator BRANDEGEE. Has the so-called Lansing-Ishii agreement any binding force on this country? Secretary LANSING. No.

Senator BRANDEGEE. It is simply a declaration of your policy, or the policy of this Government, as long as the President and the State Department want to continue that policy, I suppose ?

Secretary LANSING. Exactly, in the same way that the RootTakahira agreement is.

Senator BRANDEGEE. Will you be kind enough to state again the date of the Lansing-Ishii agreement?

Secretary LANSING. November 7, 1917.

Senator BRANDEGEE. That is all I care to ask upon that. I have some other questions relating to other things.

Senator MOSES. Mr. Secretary, the monarchy in Russia was overthrown in March, 1917 ?

Secretary LANSING. Yes.

Senator Moses. And the Kerensky government was replaced by Lenin-Trotski government in the autumn of that year?

Secretary LANSING. Yes.
Senator JOHNSON of California. November 7.

Senator Moses. Was our embassy at Petrograd in touch constantly for information during that period ?

Secretary LANSING. During the Kerensky régime, yes.

Senator Moses. And through the early days of the Lenin-Trotski régime?

Secretary LANSING. Yes.
Senator Moses. At Petrograd?
Secretary LANSING. Yes.

Senator MOSES. As I recall, one of the first steps taken by the Lenin-Trotski régime was the publication of certain secret archives of the Russian Government?

Secretary LANSING. Yes.

Senator MOSES. Including what purported to be the texts of many secret treaties. Did the embassy report upon those to this Government?

Secretary LANSING. All of them.

Senator MOSES. And those reports did not include any of these secret treaties which we have been discussing.

Secretary LANSING. None of them.

Senator Moses. Is it possible that those secret treaties were not published in Petrograd, although published elsewhere?

Secretary LANSING. I do not understand your question.
Senator WILLIAMS. What was the question ?

Senator Moses. I asked him if it was possible that those secret treaties, though published elsewhere, were not made public in Petrograd, inasmuch as it was not long after the first week in November, when Lenine ånd Trotzky came into power in Petrograd, that the publication of those documents began, and they were published in this country not greatly subsequent to that time?

Senator WILLIAMS. What was the object of that question, Senator ?

Senator MOSES. I was trying to find out whether the embassy in Petrograd had overlooked anything in making this report to the State Department.

Secretary LANSING. I can assure you that I have investigated very thoroughly as to that, and they were not published in Russia.

Senator McCUMBER. Do you intend to go into an explanation of the Lansing-Ishii agreement and its reasons, and so forth, and to put the agreement in the record ?

Secretary LANSING. I will.

Senator HITCHCOCK. Mr. Secretary, before you proceed I wish to ask you this. Some secret treaties were published in Russia at a certain period, were they not? Secretary LANSING. There were some, but none of these. Senator HITCHCOCK. None relating to the Japanese matters ? Secretary LANSING. No. Senator BRANDEGEE. Was that done before the Russian revolution ? Secretary LANSING. No. Senator BRANDEGEE. When the Czar was on the throne ? Secretary LANSING. Do you mean the agreements that were made ?

Senator HITCHCOCK. I was referring to the fact that the Lenin, Trotsky government had published, shortly after they came into power, I think in the fall of 1917, certain secret treaties.

Secretary LANSING. Yes.
Senator HITCHCOCK. But they related to European or Asian affairs ?

Secretary LANSING. Yes; they did not relate to this matter at all.

Senator Moses. Were those published in other European capitals, do you know, if not in Petrograd?

Secretary LANSING. I think none were published in other European capitals, unless they also appeared in Russian publications.

Senator JOHNSON of California. Are you going on with that subject of those treaties now, or are you going on to other subjects ?

Secretary LANSING. I was going on with the Lansing-Ishii agreement

Senator JOHNSON of California. I do not want to take you out of the thought on which you are now engaged, but do you intend to take up again the secret treaties that were published by the Russians ?

Secretary LANSING. No, sir; I do not.

Senator JOHNSON of California. When you answered Senator Hitchcock you referred to the Japanese treaties alone, did you not?

Secretary LANSING. I referred to them as to being published in Russia.

Senator JOHNSON of California. That they were not published ?
Secretary LANSING. Yes.

Senator JOHNSON of California. But there were many secret treaties published by the Russians ?

Secretary LANSING. I would not wish to say many, and I would not want to say what they pertained to without examining our records.

Senator JOHNSON of California. You know as a matter of fact that they pertained to territorial dispositions, do you not?

Secretary LANSING. I do not recall, sir; and I would prefer to look that up if you desire.

Senator JOHNSON of California. You have read here a portion of the testimony given by you the other day, part of which contained an interrogation by myself, and that interrogation related in part at least to the treaties other than the treaty with Japan concerning the disposition of Shantung and the islands of the Pacific.

Secretary LANSING. I did not so understand it.

Senator JOHNSON of California. You may be correct in that respect-you were answering only in respect to treaties with Japan.

Secretary LANSING. That is all.

Senator JOHNSON of California. Let me ask you one more question while we are on the subject. You recall that Mr. Balfour was here and addressed the Senate at one time?

Secretary LANSING. Yes.

Senator JOHNSON of California. And that Viviani was here and addressed the Senate?

Secretary LANSING. Yes.

Senator JOHNSON of California. Did either of those gentlemen while here communicate to you any secret treaties that had been executed for the disposition of territory after the war?

Secretary LANSING. Neither of them.

Senator JOHNSON of California. Did either of them on any occasion, either when here or at any other time, communicate to the State Department of the United States any information concerning the treaties that disposed of territory in which the Allies were concerned, the disposition of which was to be made by the peace conference?

Secretary LANSING. None.

Senator JOHNSON of California. As I understood you, you have no recollection of the particular treaties that were published in Russia and published subsequently in this country?

Secretary LANSING. No; I have none.

Senator JOHNSON of California. I understood you to say with some positiveness that you knew that the Japanese treaties—the treaties with Japan-had not been published ?

Secretary LANSING. Yes.

Senator JOHNSON of California. Necessarily, to have that information you would have to have some knowledge of what publications were made, would you not?

Secretary LANSING. I need not necessarily have the information, but somebody familiar with the record would have to have the information.

Senator JOHNSON of California. You had somebody who was familiar with the record look it up?

Secretary LANSING. Certainly.

Senator HITCHCOCK. You spoke of the British ambassador having advised you in the fall of 1916 as to the agreement between Great Britain and Japan as to the islands in the Pacific Ocean?

Secretary LANSING. Yes.
Senator HITCHCOCK. The dividing line being the Equator?
Secretary LANSING. Yes.

Secretary HITCHCOCK. At that time the so-called secret treaties with Japan had not been made?

Secretary LANSING. No.

Senator HITCHCOCK. They were not made until the following spring?

Secretary LANSING. The exchange of notes

Senator HITCHCOCK. That was in the following spring. They were not made at the time you talked with the British ambassador?

Secretary LANSING. No.

Senator McCUMBER. But the Chinese-Japanese agreement with reference to Shantung was executed in 1915, was it not?

Secretary LANSING. In May, 1915.

Senator POMERENE. Mr. Secretary, up to the time of the exchange of the letters which embraced the Lansing-Ishii agreement, did the Republic of China have any information concerning that agreement?

Secretary LANSING. Do you mean the Lansing-Ishii agreement ? Senator POMERENE. Yes.

Secretary LANSING. Not until it was negotiated and the notes were exchanged.

Senator POMERENE. As this related to Chinese territory, what reason was there, if any, for not conferring with the Chinese representatives with respect to it?

Secretary LANSING. It was a mere matter of declaration of a mutual policy between Japan and the United States in regard to their attitude toward China. It did not directly affect any rights of China, except that the two Governments agreed they would keep their hands off.

Senator BRANDEGEE. You said the other day, did you not, Mr. Secretary, that your principal object in making this so-called agreement was to get a renewed declaration from Japan in favor of the open door in China ?

Secretary LANSING. Yes; I did.

Senator POMERENE. When, if at all, did you first learn that the Chinese Government took any exception to the Lansing-Ishii agreement?

Secretary LANSING. We had no definite information that China took exception to the Lansing-Ishii agreement. They did make a declaration, which I was going to state later in discussing that agreement.

Senator POMERENE. If you are going into that later, I will not pursue it now.

Senator New. I wish to ask you, Mr. Secretary, if you knew that the General Board of the Navy had at any time considered the proposed disposition of the Pacific islands, and had made any recommendation concerning the attitude of the United States toward that disposition of them?

Secretary LANSING. I can not say that I have direct knowledge of that, but it seems to me that there was some consideration, very naturally, as to the disposition of those islands, more particularly on account of the trans-Pacific cables.

Senator New. Do you know or do you not know that there was a formal recommendation made by the General Board of the Navy with reference to that subject ?

Secretary LANSING. I do not, sir.

Senator New. Then, not knowing that, you can not say that any action was ever taken concerning it?

Secretary LANSING. It would depend very largely on when such a recommendation was made, as to its effect on the negotiations in Paris.

Senator New. That is all.

Senator BRANDEGEE. Mr. Secretary, I suppose you mean that no official protest was made by China against the Lansing-Ishii agreement; but my recollection is that the newspaper dispatches at the time stated that Chinese sentiment was very much opposed to it. Do you not remember that ?

Secretary LANSING. There was something of that sort; yes, in regard to the Lansing-Ishii agreement. I suggested to Viscount Ishii that it would be well for the two Governments to reaffirm the open-door policy, on the ground that reports were being spread as to the purpose of Japan to take advantage of the situation created by the war to extend her influence over China-political influence. Ishii replied to me that he would like to consider that matter, but that, of course, he felt that Japan had a special interest in China, and that that should be mentioned in any agreement that we had; and I replied to him that we, of course, recognized that Japan, on account of her geographical position, had a peculiar interest in China, but that it was not political in nature, and that the danger of a statement of special interest was that it might be so construed, and therefore I objected to making such a statement.

At another interview we discussed the phrase "special interests," which the Japanese Government had been very insistent upon, and which, with the explanation I have made, I was not very strongly opposed to, thinking that the reaffirmation of the open-door policy was the most essential thing that we could have at this time; and we discussed the phrase which appeared in the draft note, “special

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