I will be very glad to answer any questions you have to ask me. I want to correct a statement made by a witness here previously, Mr. Aspregen, I think it was, regarding the large amount

Senator SIMMONS. Will you pardon me a moment? A little while ago you gave a very clear statement of your reasons why you thought you ought to be protected against the Japanese product sold here in competition with yours. You said you also had a farm down in Florida.

Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir.

Senator SIMMONS. I suppose you raise coconuts on your farm?
Mr. TURNER. No, sir; I can not. I raise a few grapefruit.

Senator SIMMONS. Speaking from the Florida standpoint, do you not think they will be just as much entitled to protection against coconuts as you?

Mr. TURNER. Florida is not a coconut-growing country.

Senator SIMMONS. They do grow there.

Mr. TURNER. They are only specimens. You could not grow them commercially.

Senator SIMMONS. How many do they grow down there; do you know?

Mr. TURNER. In my section of Polk County they do not grow any. They grow long-leaf pine there.

Senator SIMMONS. I want to know how much they grow, if any, Florida.

Senator MCLEAN. It does not amount to anything.
Senator SIMMONS. I do not know.

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Mr. TURNER. There are not enough grown in the whole of the West Indies, notwithstanding the suggestion made-there are not enough grown in the whole of the West Indies, on the Mexican coast, the Honduran coast, the northern coast of South America, to supply a mill such as I showed you a photograph of for three months every year, nor is it possible.

We have been trying through the Department of Commerce here to get in touch with the American consuls at the various points there to try to develop, if possible, a copra business there, because we realize that the freight from the West Indies would be very much less thar the freight from Java, the freight from the Fiji Islands, and the South Seas generally. The sources of copra now are Java, Borneo, the Solomon Islands. Sydney, Australia, is the great copra port of the world to-day.

Senator THOMAS. How about the Philippines?

Mr. TURNER. They produce some, but the quality of the Philippine copra is not as high as some of the other copra. It has more acidity. I think it is due to the climate. It is damp there, and it molds readily. The finest copra comes from Samoa. The next finest is Malabar and Java copra.

Senator SIMMONS. The sum of it all is that you do not think we produce enough coconuts in this country to entitle the growers of them to protection?

Mr. TURNER. No, sir; it is impossible.

Senator SIMMONS. You have forgotten the theory of the "infant industry," have you not?

Mr. TURNER. Yes; but we are an infant industry. The infant industry you speak of in Florida is in embryo, largely, at the present time absolutely unborn.

The imported oil is selling at 93 cents here.

Senator THOMAS. Wholesale?

Mr. TURNER. Yes.

Senator THOMAS. The consumer does not get it for any such price? Mr. TURNER. The consumer gets it very cheaply. I think the consumer is able to get good butter for 28 cents a pound now; and if none of you gentlemen have ever tasted it, I wish you would try to sample a good quality of coconut butter.

Senator LA FOLLETTE. What is its appearance?

Mr. TURNER. The law of this country will not allow it to be colored at this time, therefore it is snow white. It must be colored by the consumer.

Senator THOMAS. We can not artificially color anything but butter?

Mr. TURNER. That is the only thing that is allowable now.

Senator GERRY. Did not the pure-food law cut down the trade very largely in these products?

Mr. TURNER. No, sir; it has increased its trade enormously. I can tell you that in 1914 not a pound of coconut butter was consumed in the United States, and last year 219,000,000 pounds were eaten. The CHAIRMAN. You did not start manufacturing until after the pure-food law had been in operation for several years, did you? Mr. TURNER. No, sir.

Senator MCLEAN. When you make butter out of peanuts, tallow, and coconuts, what are the dairymen going to do?

Mr. TURNER. We are importing Danish butter now.

Senator GERRY. Was there not a great quantity used of oleomargarine previous to the pure-food law?

Mr. TURNER. I was not interested in anything of that nature at that time, but I understand that some dealers took a certain amount of animal margarine and mixed it with butter. That is allowable in some States now. I think the State of New Jersey allows that yet.

The CHAIRMAN. The principal use of this coconut oil is in the manufacture of a butterine, is it?

Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir; and of bakers' fat. It will largely come into the manufacture of milk.

Senator CALDER. The manufacture of milk?

Mr. TURNER. Yes. It makes a very fine milk of standard 4 per cent butter fat by taking dried skimmed milk and water and refined coconut oil and by processing it will make a glass of milk that you would think was extremely fine if you drank it.

In making coconut butter the flavor of the coconut butter is introduced the same way into the coconut butter that the flavor of ordinary butter is introduced. It is introduced by the bacillus lactus. The bacillus acts on the cream and sours it-in other words, giving a flavor to it.

I want to correct an impression that has been made that there are large quantities of oils imported here to be refined and then exported. I do not know of a single pound that has been shipped

under those circumstances. That is a statement that, I think, was made by a previous witness by mistake. There are no oils that I know of that have been imported into this country and refined and exported again.

Senator SIMMONS. You mean none of the oil that you make?

Mr. TURNER. None of anybody's oil. No oil that I know of is imported into this country, refined and exported. The Southern Cotton Oil Co. have in Hamburg a refinery for Europe. They ship their crude cottonseed oil over there and refine it. The English refineries refine enormous quantities of oil there. It is brought there crude. The French do the same and the Germans do the same. The mill that we have is a fine mill, but let me tell you that the capacity: of that mill is only 160 tons a day, and I saw several mills in Europe this year, one at Harburg near Hamburg that pressed 1,700 tons a day. Another one in Denmark that presses 400 tons a day; and. another one at Orestes, in Denmark, that presses 800 tons a day. Senator THOMAS. Eight hundred tons of copra?

Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir. It is a very large industry here, but it is an infant industry there. We can protect ourselves from Great: Britain on account of the freight differentials, because if we get our copra here at the same price that they do we do not fear the competition of Great Britain. But we do fear the competition of the Orient, because their labor costs are very much lower than ours. We have to pay $4.50 and $5 a day for labor in the oil mills.

Now, gentlemen of the committee, all we are asking is that the tariff be given to us, the protection that is stated there in that bill, of 20 cents a gallon. It should be so much a pound, because, as stated here, oils are sold by the pound and not by the gallon. I think outside of fish oil and linseed oil the other oils are sold by the pound.

Senator SIMMONS. I think it should be by the pound so that we could understand it better.

Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir. Now, gentlemen, I brought no notes with me, but if this committee wants any definite statistics as to the amount of oils, or fats, or food fats, or any sort of statistics regarding them, I want to say to you that I have them in my office, up to date, and I think I can furnish you with anything you might wish in the way of assistance that way, and which I think is reasonably correct because I got the data from the different seller sources.

Senator MCCUMBER. If you will prepare a short and concise statement along that line, we will make it a part of your statement.

Mr. TURNER. I thank you. If there are any questions you would like to have me answer now, all right. I think you, Mr. Chairman, asked me what, besides butter, coconut oil is used for. In its crude state it is used for soap.

Senator MCCUMBER. The committee is much obliged to you, Mr. Turner.

Mr. TURNER. And I wish to thank you, gentlemen.

Senator McCUMBER. Representative Walsh desires to be heard in the matter of long-staple cotton, I believe.

Representative WALSH. Yes, sir.

STATEMENT OF HON. JOSEPH WALSH, A REPRESENTATIVE IN THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES FROM MASSACHUSETTS.

Senator MCCUMBER. The committee will be glad to hear you, Mr. Walsh.

Representative WALSH. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I have been asked by some of the manufacturers of my district, which includes the city of New Bedford, having some 30 cotton mills, to bring to the attention of this committee, they not having an opportunity to be heard when the matter was taken up in the House, the matter of the duty placed upon long-staple cotton and a presumed compensatory duty upon manufactured products from long-staple cotton. This proposed duty is fixed in the House bill at 7 cents a pound. As nearly as I can find out from any of the manufacturers, it was not asked for, and their view is that the cotton schedule of the tariff bill is of a rather technical nature, and that to put a duty upon long-staple cotton of 7 cents per pound at this time would throw the cotton schedule somewhat out of balance. They tell me that it does not come in competition particularly with cotton from the South; that is, the southern long-staple cotton which is used in different products. And, furthermore, they tell me that the compensatory duty of 7 cents per pound upon manufactured articles from long-staple cotton is not in fact a compensatory duty.

Senator McCUMBER. Does that come in competition with longstaple cotton from Arizona and that portion of the United States? Representative WALSH. No, sir; they tell me not; not to any great extent, at least. It is used in the manufacture of mercerized goods, tire fabrics, and in certain other cotton materials.

Senator McCUMBER. Is Arizona and Oklahoma cotton used almost exclusively now in the manufacture of automobile tires?

Representative WALSH. Not in any great quantity as compared with the Egyption cotton, which this long-staple schedule in the bill affects. It is not so good a grade of cotton, I am told.

Senator MCCUMBER. What is the principal use made of what we know as long-staple cotton? That is being raised quite extensively in the Southwest.

Representative WALSH. Now known as Arizona cotton?
Senator McCUMBER. Yes.

Representative WALSH. That goes into tire fabrics, but in tires of a different grade, I think, than the tire fabrics made from the Egyptian cotton. One hundred pounds of long-staple cotton I am advised will make about 60 pounds of yarn, so that if it is the desire to put a compensatory duty upon manufactured products the compensatory duty ought to be about 12 cents a pound. But it is the feeling of the manufacturers in New Bedford that this matter could well wait until the general revision of the tariff is taken up, as it will be, and that it could then be considered in connection with the cotton schedule. And in the meantime they tell me-and there are 30 manufacturing establishments in New Bedford, and I think about only 6 of them are working at this time on anything near full schedule, and a good many of the establishments I think are only operating on about 3 days a week-and in the meantime they tell me they have

just begun to receive inquiries for orders for manufactured goods. They say if it is intended to put a duty upon long-staple cotton and a compensatory duty upon manufactured products they fear that it will upset the market and that it will interfere with their figuring on the costs of production until they know just what the effect of that tariff is going to be.

A great many of the goods that they manufacture are made from this Egyptian cotton mingled with other grades of cotton, the shorter lengths, and of course it would be necessary to know the proportionate costs of the various grades. They feel that these two cotton schedules might well be eliminated from this temporary tariff measure and taken up in conjunction with the entire cotton schedule later on.

Senator MCLEAN. Did you present this situation to the House committee?

Representative WALSH. No; no opportunity was given to present it to the House Committee on Ways and Means. There were no hearings, and I did not know until the day the bill was reported that a cotton schedule was in the bill. It was only put in the day the bill was reported, and, under our procedure in the House, I endeavored to have the second schedule stricken out. I could not secure recogni tion upon the 7 cents a pound duty proposed upon long-staple cotton, but when the next item came up I endeavored to have that stricken out; but, as you gentlemen know, under the five-minute rule little could be done.

Senator MCLEAN. How did it come to get into the bill?

Representative WALSH. I have not been able to ascertain. There was no representative of the cotton manufacturers present as nearly as I can find out. It was put in, I understand, in executive session. Senator LA FOLLETTE. They bored from within, as it were? Representative WALSH. Yes.

Senator SIMMONS. It was put in, probably, as a sop to the cottongrowing States.

Representative WALSH. I do not know about that.

Senator MCLEAN. It might have been put in to kill the bill.
Representative WALSH. I do not know.

Senator SIMMONS. I am not aware that anybody from the cottongrowing States has asked for any protection; if so, I have not heard of it. I am not saying this by way of suggesting any new duty on cotton-and I do not think we need any-but I think you are mistaken in your statement that Egyptian cotton does not come in competition with certain long-staple cotton grown in this country. There are about 50,000 bales of 500 pounds to the bale grown in New Mexico and Arizona and in that part of the country out there that is about the same length as the Egyptian cotton; that is, as I recall it now, one and five-eighths. There are about 300,000 bales of long-staple cotton grown in this country, not of that length but ranging, probably, up as high as one and one-half. My understanding is that the long-staple cottons are used wherever an American manufacturer makes a high-grade cotton product. And it is the general understanding-though I do not know whether it is true or not, as I have not investigated it but it is the general understanding that there is competition between this long-staple cotton grown in the South and Egyptian cotton, especially that longer staple cotton.

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