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agents or through consular agents or consuls of some other country acting for us, you would know it, would you not? That is in your department?

Secretary Lansing. Yes, I assume so; unless something has been done while I was on the way over or while I was in Paris. If something had been done while I was away I might not know it, but I have no recollection of its having been brought to my attention since I returned.

Senator Fall. Then you do not know, as a matter of fact, whether we are trading with the enemy or not?

Secretary Lansing. As a matter of fact I do not know. I assume that we are.

Senator Fall. If we are, we must necessarily be using some other instrumentality for the carrving on of such trade, must we not 1

Secretary Lansing. If we go to German ports, yes; but if we go to neutral ports instead of German ports, we do not need to.

Senator Fall. Assuming that we are trading directly with German ports, then we must use some instrumentality, like the consuls or consular agents of neutrals?

Secretary Lansing. Yes.

Senator Fall. Prior to the war we had a consular agreement with Germany.

Secretary Lansing. Yes.

Senator Fall. We first had consular agreements with Prussia and the Hanseatic towns, and Bavaria, and various other independent States.

Secretary Lansing. Yes.

Senator Fall. And then we had a consular agreement with the German Empire?

Secretary Lansing. Yes.

Senator Fall. And that was suspended during the war?

Secretary Lansing. It was abrogated before the war.

Senator Fall. I mean it was in effect up to the time that we dismissed von Bernstorff and broke off diplomatic relations.

Secretary Lansing. It had been abrogated prior to that.

Senator Fall. It had?

Secretary Lansing. Yes; following the Seaman's act. We abrogated about 23 consular treaties at that time.

Senator Fall. You have reference to the La Follette Act 1

Secretary Lansing. To the La Follette Act.

Senator Fall. We abrogated that how?

Secretary Lansing. We gave notice to the Governments. According to the terms of the consular treaties, and treaties which contained consular provisions, we gave notice to the various Governments that we abrogated that portion, or the whole treaty.

Senator Fall. Did we withdraw our consuls and consular agents from Germany?

Secretary Lansing. We did not. It was permissive that they would continue, so as not to interrupt the trade.

Senator Fall. What functions did they perform?

Secretary Lansing. The same functions that they had performed previously, but under the general provision as to consular officers.

Senator Fall. That general provision was never abrogated by the United States Government, except as it was suspended by the declaration of war by the Congress of the United States.

Secretary Lansing. Yes; I think that is true. I think your statement of that is correct.

Senator Fall. We continued doing business with Germany right along?

Secretary Lansing. We did.

Senator Fall. Except in so far as the particular provisions with reference to desertions of sailors in ports, and so forth, were concerned

Secretary Lansing. Of course there were not very many American ships entering German ports.

Senator Fall. No, but the provisions of this seaman's act to which you have reference were with regard to seamen who should desert or leave ships in port?

Secretary Lansing. Yes.

Senator Fall. And subsequent to the passage of the La Follette Act, which abrogated these treaties, we notified these countries that these particular provisions in these consular treaties were abrogated.

Secretary Lansing. Yes.

Senator Fall. As to the other provisions, they remained in full force and effect until we declared war.

Secretary Lansing. They did remain in effect with certain countries.

Senator Fall. With Germany?

Secretary Lansing. That I can not tell you without examining the act. I presume the whole treaty fell in that particular case, because we had a special consular treaty.

Senator Fall. Then if the whole treaty fell, and we continued to do business with Germany, all that is necessary is that there be by the President, whom I assume to be the proper authority, or by some other proper authority, a declaration that peace exists between Germany and the United States, and those consular agreements or arrangements would be restored.

Secretary Lansing. So far as they are concerned it would be— when peace is restored, those provisions would be restored.

Senator Williams. Senator, if you will pardon me, I should like to ask a question right there, more as a matter of curiosity, because it relates to this.

Senator Fall. Certainly.

Senator Williams. How far did our cutting off diplomatic relations with Germany affect our consular service, before the declaration of war?

Secretary Lansing. We withdrew our consular officers at the same time.

Senator Williams. At once?

Secretary Lansing. Yes.

Senator Fall. I noticed in yesterday's dispatches among other things a statement that Rumania would decline to be bound or to abide by or to enter into treaties such as are provided in this treaty that is pending before us, for the protection of racial and religious minorities. Have you had any information upon that subject?

Secretary Lansing. None at all.

Senator Fall. Has your attention been called to the Associated Press dispatches? ,

Secretary Lansing. No, sir.

Senator Harding. Mr. Secretary, Rumania wanted to make some reservations in the treaty, did she not?

Secretary Lansing. Yes.

Senator Harding. Do you know what they were?

Secretary Lansing. They related to minority representation.

Senator Fall. Mr. Secretary, in so far as enemy countries are concerned we have only negotiated a treaty with Germany. That is, in so far as any conclusion of negotiations is concerned. Is that correct?

Secretary Lansing. That is correct.

Senator Fall. With what other countries are there now pending peace-treaty negotiations?

Secretary Lansing. Peace treaties with Austria, Bulgaria, and Turkey are being considered. The negotiations with Austria are practically finished.

Senator Fall. They are in process of negotiation and more or less completed?

Secretary Lansing. Yes; and I assume—though it would be an assumption on my part—that a Hungarian treaty is also being prepared.

Senator Fall. I was going to ask about that. Hungary when we entered the war having been an integral portion of the Austrian Empire and having since been separated, and we recognizing and demanding the separation

Secretary Lansing. It was a federated monarchial State composed of two distinct sovereignties united under one ruler.

Senator Fall. I said "the Austrian Empire," not Austria; that it was an integral portion of the Austrian Empire, which was composed of Austria and Hungary.

Secretary Lansing. "Austro-Hungarian" is the title.

Senator Fall. Then I hope the record may be corrected so that where I said the "Austrian Empire" it will appear that it should have been the "Austro-Hungarian Empire," of which Hungary was an integral portion.

The Chairman. It is understood that that correction will be made.

Senator Fall. Mr. Secretary, there is a provision here for a future treaty with Czechoslovakia with the principal allied and associated powers—that is, the five great powers—is there not?

Secretary Lansing. Yes.

Senator Fall. Although it is placed in the German treaty here, it is a treaty to be made with Czechoslovakia. They are to enter into a treaty with the principal allied and associated powers, by which they are to agree to guarantee racial and religious protection within their boundaries whenever they have any boundaries. That is correct, is it not?

Secretary Lansing. Yes.

Senator Fall. Sometime within two years?

Secretary Lansing. Yes.

Senator Fall. There is a similar provision with reference to a treaty with Poland?

Secretary Lansing. We have that.

Senator Fall. We have that and it is before this body now.

The Chairman. It has never been sent in. I have had printed in the record an English copy of it.


Senator Fall. I was assuming that it had been brought in before us as officially as any of the others.

The Chairman. It was laid before the House of Commons and the Chamber of Deputies, but it has never been laid before us officially.

Senator Fall. Very well. You say you have not had your attention called to it; but suppose it is true, as announced, that Roumania has declined to enter into any proposed treaty to guarantee racial or religious minorities. Would that have any effect upon the treaty for the same purpose mentioned in the treaty that is pending before us?

Secretary Lansing. I do not think so.

Senator Fall. You think not?

Secretary Lansing. I think not.

Senator Fall. Suppose that Roumania declined to enter the league of nations. Would that have any effect upon the league at all?

Secretary Lansing. She has already signed this treaty.

Senator Fall. She has already broken it, has she not?

Secretary Lansing. No-.

Senator Fall. If she signed it, and she is continuing at war, continuing to fight the commands of the high commissioners who arc there now, and if she has invaded Hungary and has committed acts of war on various portions of the earth's surface, do you say there is no violation of any treaty agreements?

Secretary Lansing. No; because it has not been ratified.

Senator Fall. Is it not a fact that as between governments themselves a treaty becomes operative when it is signed or negotiated 1

Secretary Lansing. No, sir.

Senator Fall. It is not?

Secretary Lansing. No, sir.

Senator Fall. Has not our Supreme Court so held?

Secretary Lansing. No, sir.

Senator Fall. Do you remember the Swiss case, decided by the Supreme Court of the United States several years ago, in which a treaty between Switzerland and the United States was negotiated and signed, but not ratified for something like 10 years? A question came up involving private property rights, and the Supreme Court of the United States held that as between Governments the treaty was in force from the date of the negotiations, but that as to citizens it was not in effect and would not take effect until it was ratified.

Secretary Lansing. I have no such recollection.

Senator Fall. Well, sir, I will take pleasure in furnishing you with that decision, as well as with some other opinions upon the same subject.

Secretary Lansing. Thank you very much.

The Chairman. Are there any further questions to be asked of the Secretary?

Senator Moses. Has the State Department received any recent information from the legation at Brussels with reference to the proceedings in the Belgian Parliament in connection with the treaty?

Secretary Lansing. I have heard nothing except what I have seen in the papers. We have had no reports on it at all.

Senator Moses. The legation has not reported?

Secretary Lansing. No.


The Chairman. Are there any further questions to be asked of the Secretary I Some members of the committee would like to ask some questions of Mr. David Hunter Miller, who is in the State Department, and we should be glad to have him here to-morrow at half past 10.

Secretary Lansing. Very well, sir. There is one other thing I want to make entirely clear, that I fulfill my promises. I was asked to produce the resolution that I suggested to be introduced in regard to the league of nations. It is very brief, and with your permission I will read it.

The Chairman. Certainly, we should be very glad to have you read it into the record.

Secretary Lansing. It was under date of January 22, 1919, and is as follows:



Resolved, That the conference make the following declarations:

That the preservations of international peace is the standing policy of civilization and to that end a league of nations should be organized to prevent international wars;

That it is a fundamental principle of peace that all nations are equally entitled to the undisturbed possession of their respective territories, to the full exercise of their respective sovereignties, and to the use of the high seas as the common property of all peoples; and

That it is the dutv of all nations to engage by mutual covenant—

(1) To safeguard from invasion the sovereign rights of one another;

(2) To submit to arbitration all justiciable disputes which fail of settlement by diplomatic arrangement;

(3) To submit to investigation by the league of nations all nonjusticiable disputes which fail of settlement by diplomatic arrangement;

(4) To abide by an award of an arbitral tribunal and to respect a report of the league of nations after investigation.

That the nations should agree upon—

(i) A plan for general reduction of armaments on land and sea;

(2) A plan for the restriction of enforced military service and the governmental regulation and control of the manufacture and sale of munitions of war;

(3) Full publicity of all treaties and international agreements;

(4) The equal application to all other nations of commercial and trade regulations and restrictions imposed by any nation;

(6) The proper regulation and control of new states pending complete independence and sovereignty. January 22, 1919.

Senator Williams. That was your suggestion to the American delegates, to be suggested by them to the conference?

Secretary Lansing. Yes.

The Chairman. I will say that I have here, just received from the President, a printed copy of the American draft, and also a printed copy of the first covenant reported, which has, of course, been widely printed in this country.

Senator Williams. Suppose you print it in this hearing.

Senator Lodge. I am going to have it printed separately as a document.

Senator Williams. I suggest that you also put it into this record.

Senator Lodge. I can see no objection to that.

Senator Moses. Mr. Secretary, with reference to that resolution which you read, everything which you have to say further about it is contained on page 144 of your testimony, in which you say that it was laid before the commission. Senator Brandegee asked you what

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