said writer's land. He was told by writer that he would not squat on any of that land, because the day of squatting was past. He asked why it was passed. He was told that if he did, and he put up buildings and cleared some land, some one would come along and see these improvements and would covet them, and would then come to see the writer about buying it; and that though to the original settler would be given the first chance to buy it if he wished, if he would not buy it, the writer would then sell it to some one who would buy it, for which he could not blame the writer, as the land had cost him money and time and interest and taxes and expenses of traveling to and from his home to it or its neighborhood each year for some years.

"Well," he said, "I will go and squat on some railroad land."

Reply was, "No, you won't do that either, because the same thing will happen as in the first case, except that the railroad will be the owner instead of me. Somebody would buy your place from the railroad after you had fixed it up." He said, "Well, then, I will squat on some State or Government land." Writer told him that the law would give him the right to do that if he at proper time applied for his homestead and proceeded under the homestead law. He said, "No; I don't want to homestead it, because I would have to pay taxes on it."

He was told that if he did not homestead it some other man would see his place, would go to Natichitoches and apply for a homestead of 160 acres, including the 40 or more acres on which his house and other improvements stood, and in due time would get a patent for it, and that he, this first settler, would have to move. He said in substance: "Do you reckon that those things would happen?"

He was told that of course they would. He thought a while; and he himself concluded these things probably would happen.

"I wouldn't pay taxes on it."-Another thing that surprised the writer was the frequency with which he heard the words "I wouldn't pay taxes on it." Writer's wife, who went with him to Louisiana on several of his trips, heard that sentence so often that she brought it home with her, and "I wouldn't pay taxes on it " was used by her to show that she didn't want or wish for the thing she was considering.

Later, another old gentleman met the writer on a street in Many, and after shaking hands, said:

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'Well, Mr. Giauque, you have been coming down among us people a long time."

"Yes; about 28 years, now."

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And then he said, “And you have always been singing the same song to us." Laughing a little, the writer replied: "Am not much of a singer. What is the song?" Oh, well," he said, when you first came down here, you bought a whole lot of land, and we wondered what in the world you wanted with it, and what you expected ever to do with it; and we would make all kinds of fun of you to your face about it, because you were very good-natured. You would tell us to have all the fun we wanted to in that way, and that you would have your laugh later. You said that railroads would come, that sawmills would follow them, and that factories and immigrants and other things like that would follow, and that lands would be taken up and that their prices would advance; and you would always tell us that we and our boys ought either to homestead land or buy land from you or some one else who would give us a chance to pay for it on easy payments. We did not do it. The truth is we thought you were crazy, plumb crazy, and that these things never would happen, because they never had happened; and we and our people had lived here a long time before that. But we now see that you were longer headed than we were. Just what you said would happen has happened. The railroads and the sawmills and the people and other things you said would come are here, and land is going up in price," and he ended with a sentence that won't bear printing, but that was full of sound philosophy and fact. It was, in substance, that more people are being brought into the world, but that nobody is making any more land.

Some purchases of land at low prices.-The same day on which I first arrived at Many, I met there our friend Col. Robert Hunter, of Alexandria, La., and also Mr. William H. Jack, of Natchitoches, La., father of present United States district attorney for the northwestern district of Louisiana. I learned from them that not long before that, Mr. Jack had bought from the estates (suc cessions) of Judge Boyce and of a Mr. Hunter (first name forgotten), an

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aggregate of 70,000 acres, at 5 cents an acre. This was not refuse or culled " land, as is shown by the fact that Mr. Hunter was a surveyor, who, while surveying, made note of especially good tracts of land he ran across, and afterwards bought them if he could. A large part of said purchase by Mr. Jack from his estate consisted of these so selected lands.

On that same day I got an option from said Mr. William H. Jack for my first Louisiana land, 13,000 acres, chiefly in Lanana grant (a 12-mile square Spanish grant, in Sabine Parish), at 25 cents an acre. Some of this land I so got was only an undivided interest, the other interests of which I was some years in buying, from one owner living in London, England, two others in New York City, and some others in Cincinnati. This consolidation of these diverse ownersips into one owner could never have been done by any one or more of the settlers on that land, because none of them, nor probably could anyone there then have done it for them. They were therefore glad when it was done, as they could then get good titles to their lands, which they rather promptly did, and most of them were glad to do. The writer told them, from time to time, what progress he was making in that direction.

Several years later Mr. Jack sold to writer all his remaining undivided interests in other parts of that grant, at 70 cents an acre, I now think. But on this land stood about one-third of the houses of Many, including the Catholic Shurch and other buildings of that congregation, the public-school building there and the homes and farms of many settlers, some of them born on the places where they respectively lived.

STATEMENT OF MR. THOMAS C. McRAE, PRESCOTT, ARK.

Mr. MCRAE. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I furnished the stenographers with a list of the companies for which I appear, and I only desire to introduce one witness.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you state those again for the record?

Mr. MCRAE. I represent the Long Pine Lumber Co., the Grant Land & Lumber Co., Tall Timber Lumber Co., Good Pine Lumber Co., Trout Creek Lumber Co., Minden Lumber Co., and Bodcaw Lumber Co.

The facts in the case, so far as the particular cases are concerned, seem to have been pretty well covered from the side that I represent, and I want to present the good faith purchaser, and that is the position that we take in this case, that all of these companies are good faith purchasers. We take the position that this grant is a contract executed; that the power does not rest with Congress to annihilate that contract and resume possession of the lands granted. So, for that purpose, I will only direct my investigation or inquiry of this witness to the question of the purchase price, which will show that these companies are all good-faith purchasers; and I have lived all of my life right near the Louisiana line and am about as well acquainted in Louisiana as I am in Arkansas. I am acquainted with all of the conditions there. I am personally acquainted with the legislation which had led up to all of this litigation that has been had and that is the basis of the proposed legislation here.

I might want to say something later, if an opportunity is given, but now I want to introduce Mr. James a Buchanan, who lives in Arkansas, and who is connected in some way with all of those companies and knows of other companies similarly situated, and I believe you have not been swearing the witnesses, but I am quite content to take his testimony under oath, because with us this is a serious matter and involves a large amount of money-people who have honestly earned it and who believe they are entitled to it, and want the

committee to look into that phase of it. They are not responsible for any of the early conditions in Louisiana. They know nothing about these. They bought after patent had been issued, after examination had been made of the land office records, the records in the recorder's office, and were advised that those titles were good, and paid good prices, and they want their property protected.

STATEMENT OF MR. JAMES A. BUCHANAN, OF TEXARKANA, TEX.

Mr. MCRAE. Now, Mr. Buchanan, state your name and residence. Mr. BUCHANAN. James A. Buchanan, Texarkana, Ark.

Mr. McRAE. If you are interested in any lumber companies in Louisiana which have acquired any title to any of the New OrleansPacific lands, give the names of those companies, please.

Mr. BUCHANAN. I am secretary and treasurer of most of these companies, and director in most of them, and stockholder in all of them. The Bodcaw Lumber Co.; the Grant Land & Lumber Co., of Selma, La.; the Trout Creek Lumber Co., of Trout Creek, La.; the Good Pine Lumber Co., at Good Pine, La.; the Minden Lumber Co., of Minden, La.; the Tall Timber Lumber Co., of Good Pine, La., and the Long Pine Lumber Co., of Alexandria, La.

Mr. MCRAE. How much land of the New Orleans Pacific Railway Co. does the Long Pine Lumber Co. own?

Mr. BUCHANAN. I could give you that in the aggregate better than separate all of those companies. Roughly speaking, all of those companies own something near 100,000 acres of land, which came down through that grant.

Mr. MCRAE. Was all of it bought from the same party, or was it bought from different parties?

Mr. BUCHANAN. It was bought from different parties.

Mr. MCRAE. When was the first purchase made?

Mr. BUCHANAN. About 14 years ago.

Mr. MCRAE. When was the last purchase made?

Mr. BUCHANAN. I could not answer that exactly. We are continually buying land, and I do not remember just now when the last purchase was made; probably some recent years ago.

Mr. MCRAE. Did you buy any land of the New Orleans Pacific grant before the patent issued to it?

Mr. BUCHANAN. None that I know of. Our attorneys were instructed to look that up carefully.

Mr. MCRAE. Did you buy any land of that grant upon which there was any filing in the land office under section 2 of this act?

Mr. BUCHANAN. I think not. There might possibly have been a few cases that I do not know of, but to the best of my recollection and knowledge there were no filings on any of the lands at the time we purchased them.

Mr. MCRAE. When you bought that land did you eliminate from the list of lands that were proposed to sell you, some lands about which there were questions of filings?

Mr. BUCHANAN. We did some lands on which there were so-called settlers who had some claim, and they were eliminated on the advice. of our attorneys. I remember a case or two from the Gould heirs, and afterwards the Gould heirs compromised and settled with some

of those parties and sold us the land at the original price some years after, when they had perfected their title, or, at least, removed every cloud upon it.

Mr. MCRAE. So you endeavored to avoid any litigation by buying no land that anybody had any claim to at that time?

Mr. BUCHANAN. We did. That was our purpose.

Mr. MCRAE. What has been your policy in your operations in Louisiana and Arkansas as to the purchase of land before or after the patent issued?

Mr. BUCHANAN. It has been our policy for a good many years not to try to buy any land unless there was a Government patent for it. That was the first thing our attorneys looked into the records to find out-whether it had been transferred and sold by the Government and a patent issued.

Mr. MCRAE. How much of your holdings have been cut over?

Mr. BUCHANAN. Why, in all these companies, roughly speaking, I would say probably 50 per cent.

Mr. MCRAE. You are not a holding company, then; you are a manufacturing company?

Mr. BUCHANAN. Yes, sir. We have eight mills, and we are manufacturing.

Mr. MCRAE. Your policy has been to cut it off as quickly as you

can?

Mr. BUCHANAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. MCRAE. And you have cut about what per cent?

Mr. BUCHANAN. I should say, roughly speaking, about 50 per cent. Mr. MCRAE. Have there been filings by alleged homesteaders on any of your lands since you bought them?

Mr. BUCHANAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. MCRAE. Has there ever been any filing on any cut-over lands? Mr. BUCHANAN. Not within my knowledge, and I am acquainted with that feature of it particularly. In all of our cut over lands, to my knowledge-and I think it is correct-not a single piece has been filed on by a so-called settler.

Mr. MCRAE. Your company has paid taxes on these lands?
Mr. BUCHANAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. MCRAE. Can you give the committee some idea about how much the rate of taxation on these lands was, sir?

Mr. BUCHANAN. I think that they will run something like 25 or 30 cents per acre for the last 10 or 15 years.

Mr. MCRAE. Well, as to this year and last year, you remember about that, do you not? What are they now? They are not getting less, are they?

Mr. BUCHANAN. No, sir; they have been constantly increased— gradually increased.

Mr. MCRAE. None of these people who have made filings on your lands have ever paid any taxes on them, have they?

Mr. BUCHANAN. I think not. To the best of my knowledge and belief, they have not.

Mr. MCRAE. Now, tell me what price the Minden Lumber Co. paid for its lands per acre.

Mr. BUCHANAN. I think from $40 to $60 per acre, as well as I remember.

Mr. MCRAE. What did the Trout Creek Lumber Co. pay for its lands?

Mr. BUCHANAN. I think it averaged from $40 to $60 per acre. The last sale was for $60 per acre.

Mr. MCRAE. The Good Pine Lumber Co.-what did those lands cost them?

Mr. BUCHANAN. About the same-$40 to $60 per acre.

Mr. MCRAE. The Tall Timber Lumber Co.-what did their lands cost them?

Mr. BUCHANAN. I think theirs was $60.

Mr. MCRAE. The Grant Lumber & Land Co. ?

Mr. BUCHANAN. I do not remember exactly about the Grant Lumber & Land Co. They purchased from a good many people, and they did not purchase any right direct from the Goulds, I don't think. They purchased 17,000 acres, I believe, from Gen. Dodge, which came through the New Orleans Pacific. I think their lands did not run quite as much. I expect, roughly speaking, their lands cost about from $15 to $20 an acre. But I am not familiar with that, from the fact that I was not secretary and treasurer of that company at the time most of those purchases were made, but I have since been made secretary, and I am not as familiar with that quite as the others.

Mr. MCRAE. The purchase was made by Mr. George Barrington! Mr. BUCHANAN. Yes, sir. They were associated there, and I did not give it as much attention until I was a stockholder. Their land did not cost quite as much as these other companies.

Mr. MCRAE. They bought, perhaps, sooner?

Mr. BUCHANAN. They bought at different times, and they bought a class of land the timber on which was not as good. It was some of the second selections by Gen. Dodge; and the lands were not quite so thickly timbered and did not cost as much money.

Mr. MCRAE. And were not worth as much?

Mr. BUCHANAN. No, sir.

Mr. MCRAE. The Long Pine Lumber Co.-what did they pay for their lands?

Mr. BUCHANAN. That is a right new company that has just been formed, and I am only a stockholder in it, and I am not absolutely familiar with the prices they paid; but they have only got a small amount of land-$30 to $40 this gentleman tells me. He lives down there, and he is more familiar with it than I am.

Mr. MCRAE. What did the Bodcaw Lumber Co. pay for the lands it holds?

Mr. BUCHANAN. Those lands cost from $40 to $60 per acre, according to the time they bought it. We carried them over some years and sold them to them at different times.

Mr. MCRAE. Twenty-five cents an acre and interest charges on $30 an acre would soon

Mr. BUCHANAN (interposing). We calculate the carrying charges and expenses and so on about double that land in value every 10 years. We own a good deal of that land. A few of us formed some companie sand bought that land and sold it to these companies a little later on when they were able to pay for it, and we tried to get the carrying charges and interest and taxes on it.

Mr. McRAE. You carried it