MARCH 1, 1830.]

Mr. Foot's Resolution.

[SENATE.

Mr. John Adams, immediately upon coming into office, dismissed the collector of New York. I name not this with a view to show his love of power; my feelings towards his memory are of a different kind; but for the purpose of showing, that he considered the power as so clearly existing, that no difficulty presented itself in the exercise of it. He also removed the collector in Charleston; a consul at Bordeaux, in France; a supervisor of the long as their services will be more advantageous to the revenue in New Hampshire; a surveyor and inspector of the revenue in Virginia; the collector and inspector of Perth Amboy, (Jersey.) On the 12th May, 1800, Mr. Adams removed Mr. Pickering, then Secretary of State. On the 6th of January, 1802, Mr. Jefferson nominated twenty-three persons to the Senate, to fill vacancies occasioned by removals made by him.

an inspector of revenue in South Carolina, p. 203. out the whole country. They have a common interest in These removals were made by General Washington, with-giving public opinion a direction in their own favor. Hence, out consulting the Senate. whenever a removal takes places, all, or most of them, unite in condemning it, and they have succeeded in giving currency to the idea, that there is an actual ownership of office in the possessor; and they speak of their offices as they do of lands and other property, which they have bought and paid for; when, in truth, (I speak of Executive offices) the offices are created for the public benefit; and officers are employed as mere agents to perform the duties, so public than others who can be employed; and so soon as others can be engaged who will, in the opinion of the appointing power, better promote the public interests, they ought to be displaced. Much has been said about turning men out who are unable to make a livelihood in any other way. When I hear this, I know that right has been done. In this wide extended country, furnishing Mr. Madison removed the marshal of Georgia in 1809. such a variety of means for mental and manual employOn the 7th of March, 1814, Mr. Meigs was nominated to ments, if an individual cannot live without office, I prothe Senate as Postmaster General; and a motion was nounce him unfit for that. If this idea, which is so earmade in the Senate, the object of which was, to ascertain nestly pressed, is to prevail, your Government will befrom the President whether the office was vacant; and, if come a parish for the support of prodigals and spendso, how it had become so? This proposition was nega- thrifts, who, having destroyed their own substance, will tired, and the nomination of Mr. Meigs approved.

Mr. Monroe, on the 12th December, 1817, nominated a consul, a receiver of public moneys, and a naval officer, at Wilmington, North Carolina, to supply vacancies occasioned by removals.

On the 5th of March, 1825, Mr. John Quincy Adams nominated a person as consul to fill a vacancy occasioned by a removal.

claim employment and support from the public treasury. It is also urged, that some are removed who have been many years in office. I think the error lies in furnishing this argument to them, by having retained them so long. The offices held by these individuals have either been advantageous and profitable, or otherwise. If the first, they ought not to monopolize the benefits for too great a period; they should give place to others, and not exclude all their contemporaries during their whole lives. If the of fice has been disadvantageous, they ought to be relieved from the burthen.

I have selected the cases referred to, for the purpose of showing that every President has exercised the power, now contested for the first time, since 1789; and no question was ever raised in the Senate, except upon the nomi- Gentlemen say it is an imputation on the character of an nation of Mr. Meigs as Postmaster General, and then a officer, to be deprived of his office. It is not so, except majority of the Senate decided that the President could so far as officers have made it so, by pressing it as an argunot be questioned upon the subject. When gentlemen ment for retaining their places. It only proves that there contend against this power, and its exercise by the Presi- is another man as well qualified as he is to perform the dent, they seem to forget that the President is elected by duties; and that the Government can be administered withthe people, and is responsible to them; and his tenure of out his aid.

office is even shorter than our own. Besides, he must for After all, I consider this subject of removal, as a matter a long time have stood before the public, and his conduct wholly between the Chief Magistrate and the people, with have been well examined. In this I think there is great which the Senate has nothing to do, except to see that security. If gentlemen will only exercise a little patience, unworthy men are not appointed. How this power ought in about two years and a-half they can try this question to be exercised is left to the Executive discretion, not between the present Chief Magistrate and themselves, to ours. before the great American tribunal--THE PEOPLE.

When Mr. Jefferson came into power, he found most of

So long as the present practice continues, you secure the officers filled by his political adversaries. He made a responsibility. Now, the President is looked to as ac-liberal use of this power, deeming its exercise healthful countable for the manner in which the whole Executive to the body politic. In answer to the New Haven remonDepartment is conducted; and so long as he can alone re- strance, which was against removals, he insists that, in ormove the subordinate officers, this accountability is just; der to secure a fair participation in the offices of the Gobut the moment you force men, and continue them upon vernment, he must use this power, as "few die (speaking him, you furnish him with arguments which will exonerate of the officers) and none resign." him before the nation. May he not justly say, that he has Were I to give my own opinion, as a citizen, I should no control over the inferior officers in the Executive De- say, that all who had prostituted their official influence partment; that his wishes are disregarded; and that he has and power for electioneering purposes, should be remov. no power to coerce those engaged in performing-different (ed; likewise, all who loved their party more than their duties, to execute his will? The state of insubordination country, and had manifested such feelings and dispositions which must follow, in practice, from the opinion contended as made it apparent that they would rejoice at a failure of for on the other side, will destroy all harmony and respon- the administration, rather than its success. For a free, sibility. If this power of controlling the Executive be as- full, independent exercise of the right of suffrage, no man sumed by the Senate, all the great powers of the Govern- should be removed. These are my opinions, nor am I aware ment will be concentrated in this body. Already we can that the present administration has gone beyond them. prevent the Representative will from having effect, by negativing the bills of the other House; by the power of the Senate now contended for, we can bring the Executive to our feet.

Why is it that we hear so much complaint on the subject of removals from office? It is owing to a congeniality of feeling among office holders, State and Federal, throughVOL. VI.-28

I now say to gentlemen, that all their charges of proscription and of glutting vengeance are but the nibbling of minnows at a mountain; they cannot remove one pebble from its base; and although I am aware that I can add nothing to the strength or beauty of that vast pillar of renown, which the great and patriotic actions of the present Chief Magistrate have reared up for him, I will say one

SENATE.]

Mr. Foot's Resolution.

[MARCH 1, 1830.

thing to the gentleman from Maine, [Mr. HOLMES.] When and the rights of man; and, although noxious vapors may minor men shall die, and rot, and be forgotten, the name of arise, and settle and abide there, as elsewhere, for a seaAndrew Jackson will be held in reverence by all posterity, son, the rays of the sun of liberty will penetrate and disand his great actions will be a shining light, pointing out sipate them. to benighted nations the way that leads to liberty and hap- I thank the Senator from Missouri for all the kind feelpiness. ings he has manifested towards the ancient sufferings of Sir, gentlemen might as well attempt to raise a commo- the West. Sir, they were great. I know it. I need turn tion in the ocean, by throwing pebbles on its surface, as to to no documents to tell me what they were; they are writagitate the people of this nation on account of the remo-ten upon my memory, a part of them upon my heart. The val of a few subordinate officers, who have held their offices honored men you see here are but the remnants, the savalready for too long a period, and whose places are wellings, the wreck, of large families lost in effecting the earsupplied. The same clamor was attempted to be raised ly settlement of the West, If I look to the right or to the against Mr. Jefferson; the groans and lamentations were as loud and long, and still no effect was produced to his disadvantage.

left, and all around, I see mementoes of ancient suffering and woe. Ask my colleague, [General DESHA] who sits near me, what he remembers. He will tell you that, This debate [said Mr. G.] reminds me of the days of while his father was in pursuit of one party of Indians, other years. My name has been introduced by my friends another party came in and murdered two of his brothers. as the author of a sentiment or doctrine called moral trea. Inquire of yonder Governor of Arkansas, [Mr. POPE] what son. In 1813, when this country was in its greatest peril became of his brother-in-law, Oldham? He will tell you and danger; when the richest blood of the West had en-that he went out to battle and never returned. Ask that riched the soil of Tippecanoe and the banks of the Raisin; honorable Representative, [Mr. WICKLIFFE] where is your when Daviess and Allen, and other patriots had fallen; uncle, the gallant Hardin? He was intrepid enough to when Winchester, Madison, Lewis, and Winder, were in carry a flag of truce (under the direction of the Governcaptivity; when I saw the blood of my country issuing from ment) to the hostile savages. They did not know the every pore; I likewise saw a portion of our citizens dis-sanctity and protection which the flag of peace threw couraging enlistments, and dissuading capitalists from around him, and they slew him. If I turn to my old classloaning their money to the Government. I did pronounce mate and friend, [Mr. RowAN] one of the ancient sons of men, thus engaged, moral traitors. I argued thus: If an the wilderness, now a grave, and wise, and potent Senaindividual shall arm himself, and go over to the enemy, tor, I am reminded of a mother's courage and intrepidity; and stand in his ranks, he is guilty of treason under the and who she rescued from savage hands, when in the constitution, because he has added the overt act to his grasp of death. treasonable intent. If the same individual shall not go over I was too young to participate in the dangers and difficulto the enemy, but remain with us, and employ his influ- ties of my country; but I can remember when death was ence so as to prevent ten men from joining the standard in almost every bush, and every thicket concealed an amof their country, he thereby does a greater injury to his buscade. If I am asked to trace my memory back, and Government; and his intention is as criminal as though he name the first indelible impression imprinted on it, it had been found in the ranks of the enemy. So I spoke would be the sight of my eldest brother, bleeding and dyof those who used their influence to prevent the loans of ing under the wounds inflicted by the tomahawk and money which were necessary and indispensable to a success- scalping knife: another and another went in the same way. ful prosecution of the war. I spoke as I then and still I have seen a widowed mother plundered of her whole think. I re-affirm it. But I need not urge arguments to property, in a single night; from affluence and ease reducenforce a doctrine now admitted by all as canonical. Al-ed to poverty in a moment, and thereby compelled to labor though, like other truths, it was disputed and questioned with her own hands, to educate her last and favorite son, when first advanced, now none seem to controvert it. I who now addresses you Sir, I remember the two commust here express my regret that the gentleman from panies (spoken of by the Senator from Missouri) sent by Maine, [Mr. HOLMES] who then stood up in the Legisla- Virginia to our relief. They were called rangers. They ture of Massachusetts, and manfully, ably, and eloquent- were stout, rough-looking men, not fit for courts or palaces, ly, contended for his country, and myself, should now be but each man was a man: to us they were angels of deliverfound on adverse sides. I then censured, but in far less ance. They guarded us, and fed us upon the game of the degree, the opinion entertained and practised upon, that wilderness. Sir, in my just estimation, one company of the militia of the United States could not, under the con- them (seventy-five men) were of more real value than as stitution, be compelled to cross the lines of their States, many office hunters of the present day as could stand in or of the United States, in times of war. They read the the Pennsylvania avenue, between this capitol and the constitution to the letter, regardless of its spirit. Con- President's house. gress had decided the question differently; and my opiThese scenes are past: and now, shall I throw censure nion was, that all should submit to that decision, until the upon the old States for want of a proper regard to the incommon enemy was expelled from our borders. My then terest of the West? I cannot do it so far as Kentucky is and now constituents concurred with me in opinion. When concerned. The greatest sufferings there were from the called on by their country, they hastened to obey; they first of the year 1780, until the fall of 1782. During all never stopped to inquire or study geographical divisions that period, the old States were contending for their own or lines; their only inquiry was, where are the enemies of safety; and although Cornwallis surrendered in October, the country? They went in search of them, and the only 1781, it was not until after the battle of the Blue Licks, charge ever made against them was, that they went too which took place in August, 1782, that such assurances of far, and overdid their duty. This charge, and those who peace between Great Britain and the United States were made it, their aiders and abettors, are hastening to obli- entertained, as would justify sending a force to the Westvion. Shall I, on account of this difference of opinion, ern country. It was not until the 30th of November, 1782, reproach and censure Massachusetts, or call in question that the preliminaries for a peace were signed; and from the patriotism of her citizens? No, sir; Boston was the that period such was the rapid increase of the Kentucky cradle of American liberty. There is the ground over population that the war was soon transferred to the enewhich Samuel Adams and John Hancock moved, when my's country. The citizens of Tennessee suffered to a they called the sons of liberty to arms. To me, it is holy much later period. There the insufficiency of the protecground. I will not profane it. The atmosphere which tion afforded by Congress was felt, after the war with Great such men breathed, must be favorable to independence, Britain had ended: and it was not until Whitley (the same

MARCH 1, 1830.]

Mr. Foot's Resolution.

[SENATE.

brave man who fell at the battle of the Thames) took his tough and sound--ay, as good old seasoned hickory! Kentucky volunteers, and united them with men of the With him the West is contented and happy; and let it same description raised in Tennessee, and marched them, bring joy or grief to whom it may, no doubt need be enwithout any authority from the Government, against the tertained that next November two years, as an evidence Cherokees at the Nickajack towns, and conquered them, of her attachment, she will, in presence of the good peothat any security was afforded to the citizens of Tennessee. ple of this country, again pass through the ceremony usuThe present Chief Magistrate has been charged with in-al in such cases; nor should I be disappointed, if the State consistency in this, that he has appointed members of Con- of Maine were found aiding and assisting at the celebragress to offices after he had written a letter to the Tennessee tion; and the gentleman himself would unite, I am sure, Legislature, recommending a change in the constitution, were it not for his unconquerable attachment to political so as to exclude them. Surely gentlemen ought to per-consistency.

mit him to administer the Government upon the constitu- The Senate will excuse me for saying a few words in re-. tion as it is, not as he might wish it to be. His recommen-lation to the partnership made up by the Boston parson, durdation has not been acceded to; a majority of the people ing the last war, and now added to by the gentleman from have differed from him in opinion, and it has become his Maine, which makes it to consist of James Madison, Felix duty to acquiesce in their decision. Grundy, His Satannic Majesty, and John Holmes.

A few words with the gentleman from Maine, [Mr. [Here Mr. HOLMES rose, and remarked that he had HOLMES] and I have done. He tells us he is always in a only said that, had the parson thought of him, he would minority, and prefers to be so. This is matter of taste al-have added his name at the end of the firm.] together. It is certainly the duty of a majority to carry Mr. GRUNDY proceeded. We will supply the ellipsis on the Government, and do all the good for the country it of the parson, and make him say what the gentleman supcan; and the understanding of that gentleman seems to be poses he would have said. I never speak irreverently of that the minority may and will annoy, vex, and harass the parsons, unless my duty compels me to do so; and, theremajority, by the use of all the means in their power. fore, as to him, I will only remark, that I think his zeal Now, if the disposition of any individual inclines him to was misdirected; but to the gentleman from Maine I have mischief and evil, rather than good, I shall not quarrel something more to say. I was honored too much when with him for indulging his taste. The same gentleman has told us, that a gallant gentleman of the South, and a gay deceiver from the banks of the Hudson, are wooing and courting the West; and in time, a gentleman from New England may pay his addresses likewise.

my name was inserted in the title of the firm. I never had, nor have I now, capital or capacity for business sufficient to entitle me to such distinction; and, therefore, in the new arrangement about to be made, my name will not be inserted, either in the title of the firm or upon the sign I have often felt, painfully felt, my inferiority to those board. Mr. Madison has become old and rich, for an honwith whom I was contending. I seldom say any thing est and well earned fame is a politician's wealth; he has reabout it. The public will always discover it soon enough tired from business, and Andrew Jackson has taken his for my benefit. In a case, however, so striking as the pre-place; and business will, hereafter, be conducted under sent, I will at once openly and frankly admit my inferiority. the name and style of Andrew Jackson and company. Of It has been a long time since I have practised, or even this firm I will be an humble and unnamed partner. The thought of courtships. I never did excel. I never had gentleman from Maine will not assist in conducting the at command those bewitching smiles, graceful attitudes, business of this firm, and the third person named has a and enchanting words, which so much characterize and violent antipathy to it. Therefore, the best thing that can distinguish some gentlemen of my acquaintance; and be done is, to dissolve the partnership, and let the two how fortunate should I be, could I now borrow from that characters last named establish a new firm, under the name gentleman such aid as he could easily furnish, and have a and style of [Meaning the Devil and John Holmes.] great abundance left, while I discourse with him upon the In making this division, great reliance is placed in the masubject which he has presented to our view. I will, how-ny excellent qualities and superlative virtues of the genever, without his assistance, endeavor to state how this tleman from Maine, which will enable him to keep the matter has been, now is, and is to be hereafter. Some senior member of his firm in order, should he prove refracfive or six years since, a gentleman of New England did tory. To this dissolution of the old firm, and the estapay his addresses to the West, and such were his impor-blishment of the two new ones, I call these Senators to tunities, and those of his friends, that they did extort from bear testimony.

her a hesitating, dubious, and reluctant assent. She was I wish to address the Senate seriously, upon another not satisfied herself; and when the old people talked to subject introduced into this discussion. I pretend not to her, and she had reflected fully upon the subject, she de- prescribe rules to others: each Senator must judge of his termined against the proposed union of the East and own course for himself. I speak not in censure of the abWest; and in pursuance of the advice of her best friends, sent-of the late President of the United States and of his she married an individual, of whom I will give some ac- Secretary of State. I have spoken no evil, nor will I do count to the gentleman from Maine. He was born in South so. If that is to be done, let those do it who have conCarolina, in what is called the Waxhaw Settlement, a tended with, and conquered them. Their's be the honors place remarkable for the production of great men, both of the triumph, and all the spoils. I claim no share of of body and mind; there is an instance of it [pointing to either. I only ask my political friends to be permitted to Mr. BLAIR] in the Representative of that district. He aid them in diffusing and circulating, throughout the counstudied law in North Carolina, and at an early period re- try, the beneficial effects of their achievement. This bemoved to the West, and there learned the rudiments of ing the course I intend to pursue, gentlemen will excuse war, under General James Robertson, the founder of Nash- me for not feeling the influence of the remarks they have ville, and father of West Tennessee. He distinguished made concerning the present Secretary of State. Although himself at the bar as an advocate, and at an early period I am willing to hear others, and indulge myself in much was called to the supreme bench of the State, where he freedom of remark, when the conduct of a public officer held the scales of justice between contending parties, is fairly before the Senate, I am unwilling to hear their with an even and steady hand. He was remarkable for names introduced and harshly treated, when there is no his detestation of all fraud, and treated villany of every connexion between them and the subject under discussion. sort with severity. True, he is a little old, but he is as When I recollect that this individual has been a Senator in the Legislature of his own State; the Attorney General of the great State of New York; twice elected a Senator of

Mr. Blair is a gentleman of fine talents, and in size upwards of three hundred weight.

SENATE.]

Marine Service.

[MARCH 1, 1830. the United States; the Chief Magistrate of his State--the next to the concluding one of the same document, he duties of all which he ably and faithfully discharged; and would have found it repelled. What he omitted to do, I now the first constitutional adviser of the President of the will undertake to perform. The report was made under United States; I must be excused for thinking him enti-a call of the House, and of course did not involve the tled to public confidence, until something be shown to his constitutional question; but, lest there should be a doubt prejudice. on that question, it goes on to state: "In the view which Another high officer has been alluded to in this debate, has been taken, I have thought it improper, under the rein a manner which may be calculated to do injustice to his solution of the House, to discuss the constitutional quessentiments. The Senator from Massachusetts [Mr. WEB- tion, or how far the system of Internal Improvement, STER] read extracts from the speech of the presiding offi- which has been presented, may be carried into effect on cer of this body, delivered on the tariff of 1816, and from the principles of our Government; and, therefore, the his report made to the House of Representatives on Inter- whole of the arguments which are used, and the measures nal Improvements, under a call from that body, with a view proposed, must be considered as depending on the deeito justify the system which has since been adopted in re-sion of that question." Nothing can be more guarded; ference to these important subjects. I do not stand here it requires no comment.

to apologize for any one; but justice compels me to say, When I heard the gentleman from Massachusetts introthat I consider such proofs as entirely fallacious. No proof duce the name of the presiding officer of this House, it of sentiment can be more unfair, usually, than partial ex-struck me that there was something of indelicacy in it, as tracts, without reference to subject or circumstances. And he is the only individual on this floor who cannot be heard such, I have no doubt, is the case in this instance. The in his own defence. I know that, were he permitted to be tariff of 1816 was in its nature different from those since heard, none could defend his conduct and political course adopted. It was for revenue, and not protection. It was with more ability and effect. This I know, because I have reported from the Committee of Ways and Means, and seen his strength tested on many great and trying occasions. not from that on Manufactures; and the rates of duties, as Before I conclude, permit me to return my thanks to the fixed by it, were not higher than the wants of the treasury gentleman from Louisiana, [Mr. JOHNSTON] for his politerequired. It was, in fact, a reduction, not an increase of ness and respectful treatment, in yielding me the floor, the then existing duties. It is true that many of its pro-when he understood I had a wish to address the Senate; visions were so modified as to afford protection, so far as and although we cannot agree in all things, in one we will was practicable in a system of revenue, to the manufactures unite-in remembering with pride and pleasure, that it which had sprung up during the restrictive measures and was on the banks of the mighty river of the West, and the war; and which, as they had been forced into existence near his own great city, that the brave Louisianians, the by the policy of the Government, had a just right to its gallant Mississippians, (commanded by their present repreprotection, as far as was consistent with its constitutional sentative, [Gen. HINDS] who took them up to the very powers, and a just regard to other great interests. No lines of the enemy, and there sported and played with one, the most rigid in the construction of the constitution, danger as a harmless thing) the Kentuckians, always strivever doubted but that protection might be afforded in that ing to be foremost where danger is to be met, the overincidental mode; and it would be as little doubted, that, duty-doing Tennesseeans, led on by the greatest captain where a measure which proposed thus to protect them was of the age, met, fought, and conquered, the conquerors before the House, the general benefit of home manufactures of the conqueror of the world. It was then, yes, it was would constitute a legitimate topic of debate, in order to then and there the American eagle took his loftiest flight, ensure the passage of the bill. But it would be doing and uttered notes of highest exultation: thence winged great injustice to infer from general remarks, made under his way to the South, to proclaim to Spanish Americans, circumstances going to show that manufactures at home then struggling for liberty and independence, what deeds would render us more independent and secure in time of of mighty daring and of valor freemen could perform, war, that he who delivered them was in favor of the pro- when fighting in defence of the beauty and booty of their tective system. The most that can be fairly inferred is, country against an invading foe.* that he was in favor of protection as incidental to revenue. The character of the measure under consideration, to which the remarks referred throughout the discussion, shows that it was regarded in that light only.

MARINE SERVICE.

The following resolutions, submitted on the 27th Febraary, by Mr. BARNARD, were taken up for consideration: "Resolved, That the Secretary of the Navy be directed to furnish to this House information on the following subjects:

Surely the Senator from Massachusetts, when he reflects on his own case, will not insist on a different view. He opposed the tariff of 1824, and supported the still stronger tariff of 1828, on a ground of change of circum- "1st. Whether it is necessary to the armed equipment stances in the short interval between them, and yet repel- of a vessel of war that marines should compose a part of led the charge of inconsistency when applied to himself. its military force; or whether marines may not usefully be With such a defence in his own case, he cannot but see dispensed with, and a portion of the seamen be instructed how unjust it would be to rely on sentiments delivered on in the use of small arms, and perform all duties which can a tariff for revenue only, as a justification of a system be required of marines, either in battle or in ordinary service. based on the principle of protecting one branch of indus"2d. Whether seamen are not now instructed and practry at the expense of others, without regard to revenue tised in the use of small arms; and, generally, any informaor any other of the constitutional powers of Congress. tion which may elucidate the inquiry, whether marines But the glaring injustice which may be produced by quot-can or cannot be beneficially dispensed with on board of ing partial extracts is still more strikingly exemplified in our public vessels of war.

the case of that which the Senator from Massachusetts "3d. Whether the petty officers and seamen, who have quoted from the report on Internal Improvements. He been in service, but from age or slight disabilities are renread, from the introduction of the report, some introduc-dered unfit for the active duties of their calling, on shiptory observations on Internal Improvements, no doubt board, can be usefully and safely employed as guards at with a view to prove that the author was in favor of the the navy stations, in lieu of the marines now assigned to constitutionality of the system in its broadest sense. ing what the gentleman read separately, the inference which he wished to draw might seem to follow; but if the gentleman had taken the trouble to turn to the paragraph tish army at the battle of New Orleans.

Tak

that duty.

66

And further, that the Secretary of the Navy obtain

The words "beauty and booty" was the watch-word of the Bri

MARCH 1, 1830.]

Marine Service.

[SENATE.

But my

from the officers composing the Navy Board, and other ing the captain on shore with one of his subalterns, while naval officers of rank now at the seat of government, the other is sent in command of the detachment to serve their opinions, in writing, on the foregoing subject, to be at sea. It must be apparent, I think, that such a state of transmitted with his report to the Senate.' things would operate injuriously to the army. Mr. SMITH, of Maryland, said he was opposed to this design is not now to go into an examination of the inconmode of obtaining information. He recollected that the veniences that would result, by making detachments from policy and propriety of obtaining opinions from Heads of the army for marine duty at sea. It is not necessary to the Department was discussed when Congress sat in Philadel- consideration of the resolution before us. I have merely phia. Some gentlemen were in the habit of, at that time, stated one or two as they struck me. My object is to obcalling on the Secretary of the Treasury for his opinion tain from those competent to give it, the information asked on any favorite subject, relating to his Department, in or- for in the resolution: that is, whether marines cannot be der that they might be aided in accomplishing their object entirely dispensed with on ship-board, and a portion of by the weight that gentleman's opinion bore in the legis-seamen trained to the use of small arms, to perform any lative hall. It was then decided, that opinions of Heads of duty that can be required of soldiers. Department were unnecessary, as members themselves The Senator from Maryland objects to the resolution, were as capable of forming as correct an opinion as they; because, he says, it is asking the opinion of the Secretary and that they were improper, as tending to influence the of the Navy, when we ought to ask for facts, and alleges discussion of the Legislature. Mr. S. said it was sufficient that the Senate are just as competent to form opinions on to require facts from the Departments and leave members this subject, as the Secretary himself. But the resolution to form their own opinions on those facts. For these rea- asks for information, and from whom? Why, sir, not from sons, he was opposed to the resolutions. the Secretary only, but from naval officers, whose long Mr. BARNARD said, the remarks made by the Senator service and experience will enable them to give it. from Maryland, [Mr. SMITH] in opposition to the resolu- resolution was purposely framed with a view to accomtion now under consideration, made it necessary for him plish this object. But who can the Senate call upon for briefly to state some of the views and reasons which influ- this purpose? Upon the officers themselves? No; but enced him in presenting it. It will be recollected [said upon the Head of the Department, and, through him, upMr. B.] that, at the commencement of the present session, on the officers who are subject to his control. This is the the President of the United States, in his message to Con-only means that I am aware of by which we can officially gress, recommended that the marine corps should be trans- obtain the information sought for.

The

ferred to, and merged in, the army; and whatever marines I will acknowledge [said Mr. B.] that my impression might be required for naval service should be obtained by has been, that marines are not indispensable for the sea draughts from the army, as it was stated that no previous service in our public vessels. I may be in error. I do training was necessary for this service. The Military Com- not pretend to any practical knowledge myself on the submittee of the Senate, upon the reference of the several ject, and therefore it is that I want to be informed by those parts of the President's message, considered this subject who alone can give satisfactory information. If, when it as coming in some measure before them; although of a is obtained, in the report of the Secretary, and the offimixed character, relating both to the army and navy, yet cers called on, it shall be found that marines cannot be they conceived it entitled to their consideration. But it dispensed with, it will show that I have been mistaken in occurred to me, sir, that it was proper to settle a prelimi- my impression. I will, however, state a few of the reanary question before we could come to any satisfactory sons on which that impression has been founded: for I do conclusion on the recommended transfer of the marine not mean to go into an argument on the subject. It is corps, and that was, whether either marines or soldiers well known that, in the British service, their seamen ever were necessary as a part of the armed force on board of a have been forcibly impressed, and compelled to serve on vessel of war. If marines are indispensable on ship-board, board their ships of war against their consent; and this, then I am willing to admit that it will be better to retain too, not for a few years only, but for life, or, at least, as the corps as it is, and cure any defect in its organization, long as they are fit for duty. It became necessary, thereif such should exist, by a re-organization, if necessary: fore, to repress that spirit of mutiny which would unquesfor I can readily foresee difficulties that will arise in tak-tionably be found to exist in a crew thus violently torn from ing soldiers from the army to perform marine duty. I wish their friends and family, and forced into the service merely to mention one or two that have occurred to me. against their will. For this purpose marines, it is believed, By the existing laws of Congress, punishment by stripes were originally introduced on board of British ships, as is expressly prohibited in the army of the United States. much, if not more, to overawe and keep the seamen in When a soldier, therefore, enlists in the service, it is un-subjection, than to assist in navigating or fighting the ves-· der an implied agreement, if not express understanding, sel. This duty, on the part of the marines, has produced that this punishment shall not be inflicted on him for ordi-a feeling on the part of the sailors towards them, if not of nary offences. If he is called on to perform marine duty, actual hate, certainly any thing but cordiality and good on board one of your vessels of war, is he to be subjected will. The dislike of the sailor for the marine is proto the punishment usually inflicted on seamen, or is there verbial.

to be two kinds of punishment, one for the marine, and In our service [continued Mr. B.] marines cannot, it is the other for the sailor, on board of the same vessel? Eve- presumed, be necessary to guard the seamen, and prevent ry naval officer will tell you at once, that this distinction in punishments cannot exist. That, for the same offence, there must be the same kind of punishment, whether for marines or seamen.

mutiny. Seamen are voluntarily enlisted, and for a shorter period than marines themselves: they are not forced into the service, as in the British navy, but go into it of choice --it is their free act. Can it be possible, then, that they There is another inconvenience [said Mr. B.] that has must be watched and guarded by soldiers to keep them to struck me will arise in taking soldiers. A company of their duty? Such a belief is derogatory, it appears to me, soldiers consists of about fifty or sixty men, commanded to the character of our gallant tars. On one subject my by a captain and two lieutenants. If a draught is required mind is decided, that there should not be on board of the for one of your smaller vessels, say a sloop of war, about same vessel two jarring and distinct classes of men, who half a company only will be required: for I believe the are in constant collision with each other, unless imperious number of marines usually employed on board one of that necessity demands it. Those who are to act with effect, class of vessels is between twenty and thirty only. If can best do so by a union of feelings, and a similarity of you then take this number, you divide the company, leav-habits. Experience has taught this lesson. Sailors and