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printing account in this Convention, they will bankrupt the State and leave nothing to quarrel over among themselves before the courts. I trust, therefore, that no such amount as 5,000 will be printed. If it is so important an amendment as stated by the gentleman from Cattaraugus, the newspapers will print it as a matter of course. They will not hesitate in that regard, and the distribution of it through the papers of the State will cost, so far as the people of the State of New York is concerned, but a small amount of money. I trust, therefore, that the original proposition, made by the gentleman from Cattaraugus of 2,000, will be considered, after members reflect a little, entirely sufficient for the occasion.
Mr. Dean Mr. President, I rise to a point of order. Under rule 51 this must, of necessity, go to the Committee on Printing. Mr. Hamlin — If it is necessary that this should go to the Committee on Printing, of course, I do not object. It seems as if it might just as well be determined now, as immediate circulation is desired. What I was going to suggest, however, was in the interest of economy that, I think, perhaps, 2,000 copies better be printed in the first instance, and then, if there is necessity for 3,000 more, it will be a very easy matter, as the types are kept up, as I understand. So that, if ultimately it should be desirable to have 5,000 copies or 3,000 copies additional, there would be no difficulty in obtaining them. I ask, Mr. Chairman, unanimous consent of the Convention to suspend the rule and to pass this motion.
The President pro tem.- Unanimous consent is asked by Mr. Hamlin that the Convention shall suspend the rule and that this resolution, instead of being referred, as, of course, to the Committee on Printing, may be acted on now by the Convention. Are there any objections? There being none, it is so ordered by the Convention. The Chair would ask Mr. Vedder if he accepted all the amendments as they were offered?
Mr. Vedder I did.
The President pro tem.- The Chair failed to understand whether there were any further amendments made to this resolution, in reference to the printing of 5,000 copies of this report. If there are no further amendments, the question now before the Convention is upon adopting Mr. Vedder's motion that 5,000 copies of these reports and the amendments be printed for distribution throughout the State.
The President pro tem. then put the question, as stated, and it was determined in the affirmative.
Mr. McMillan - I have been authorized by the Committee on
Rules to make the following report, in reference to the limitation of time on the suffrage debate.
The Secretary read the following report from the Committee on Rules:
"Resolved, That the limit on debate shall be three hours. The Convention shall sit from three to five o'clock this day, and again at 8 P. M. The time from three to three-thirty shall be given to those sustaining the adverse report; the time from three-thirty to five shall be given to those opposing the report, and the time from eight to nine shall be given to those sustaining the report; and that the vote be taken at nine o'clock."
Mr. McMillan - Mr. President, I desire to state to the Convention that the chairman of the Suffrage Committee (Mr. Goodelle), and also the leader of those opposed (Mr. Lauterbach), were before the committee and agreed to the provisions of this resolution.
Mr. Lincoln Mr. President, it seems to me hardly worth while for this Convention to break in upon its other work to introduce this suffrage amendment into the day's session. We voted last week to use the evening sessions until the subject was exhausted. We have used three evenings. We voted last night, I suppose, to continue it to-night. There is important work to be done before the committees this afternoon, which will engage the time of some who might desire to participate in this debate. I think this question can be disposed of this evening by beginning promptly at the usual hour, without taking any time this afternoon. As I understand it, nearly all the arguments upon each side have already been presented. There may not be more than two or three speeches more, in any event. I object, so far as I am concerned, to the consideration of this question this afternoon.
Mr. McClure - Mr. President, I agree entirely with the gentleman in his suggestion as to this innovation on the understanding reached, with reference to this matter of suffrage and the general business of this Convention. By reason of the fact that it was understood that the matter of suffrage was to be discussed and disposed of at an evening session, several important committee meetings have been arranged for, among them, that which has been deemed by a great many members of this Convention as very important, the matter of the preservation of the State forests. In that matter a public hearing was arranged, to attend which gentlemen have come from New York, and it is a matter, in my judgment, that far exceeds the present question of woman suffrage. Upon that matter gentlemen have come from New York to be heard.
In that matter a great many members of this Convention have expressed an active interest, as have men who are dwelling in the neighborhood of the forests, and who know something of the needs of the occasion. I say, sir, that it is a great mistake to ask members who seek an attendance upon committee matters to absent themselves from the discussion at the end of this suffrage matter, and that there is no necessity for intruding or trenching upon the afternoon for its disposition. I think that it may be discussed and voted upon to-night, and allow the arrangements that have been made, in view of the fact that it was not to be heard during the afternoon, not to be interfered with. If in order, I move that the portion of the report which provides for an afternoon session be amended so as to provide that there shall be no afternoon hearing, but that the Convention shall assemble at seven o'clock this evening and that the time, as fixed by the report, shall be allotted in the same way and a vote he had this evening.
Mr. Storm Mr. President, I, for one, fail to understand the position we are in, in regard to this matter. According to the resolution that I understand was adopted, the suffrage question was made a special order for to-night. Therefore, it seems to me that this is out of order.
Mr. Barhite Mr. President, I certainly hope that the report of the Committee on Rules will not prevail. I admit that this subject which has been under discussion for the last three evenings is a very important one.
Mr. Storm Mr. President, I rise to a point of order. I am of the opinion that the matter has been disposed of, in regard to the woman suffrage question that it was to be a special order for to-night. Therefore, why take up the time in considering the subject of a session this afternoon?
The President pro tem. The ruling of the Chair is that this Convention has a right to make special orders and do away with special orders. This matter of the Committee on Rules, by the rules. themselves, is always in order, and the debate upon it seems to be perfectly in order.
Mr. Barhite - We have already had some seven or eight hours of eloquent and logical debate upon both sides of this suffrage question. The question has already been discussed most thoroughly pro and con in the committee. I do not believe that this Convention should take any more time than that provided by the committee for the evening session. I certainly hope that the report will not
prevail, but that we may go on, as we intended, this evening and finish the matter up at that time.
Mr. McMillan - Mr. President, from the hearing before the committee by those in charge of this discussion, it appears that a vote was expected last evening; it further appears that at least three hours' time will be necessary to satisfy all of the parties in the further discussion. If this matter is put over until eight o'clock this evening, a vote cannot be reached before eleven, and, with the three to five minutes' time allowed to members to explain their votes, it will be midnight before the roll-call will be completed. It was for this reason that the committee were impelled to report to the Convention that, in their judgment, two hours of this afternoon should be devoted to the discussion of this question, fixing the hour when the vote should be taken at a specific time so that every delegate who might desire to cast his vote might be present at that hour of nine o'clock this evening. This will not interfere in any manner with the sittings of committees this afternoon, because I apprehend that not more than one-half of the delegates desire to be present at this discussion, unless some vote is to be taken.
Mr. Veeder Mr. President, is a motion to amend in order? The President pro tem.— A motion to amend is in order.
Mr. Veeder - Then I move to strike out of the proposition or the rule reported so much of it as classifies the particular time assigned to individuals to speak on one side or the other of the proposition. I know of no instance when such a rule was ever adopted in any legislative body. It is a dangerous precedent.
Mr. McMillan - Will the gentleman give way for a moment? Our rule expressly provides that when an assignment of time is made it must be equally divided between those in favor and those opposed. That is the rule of the Convention.
Mr. Veeder I submit that the proposition is a dangerous one to undertake to divide the time by hours, as the proposition intends to do, saying that certain individuals on one side of the case shall be heard at a particular time, and those on the other side shall be heard at another time. That does not involve the simple question of allotment of time equally between the contestants. That can be done by the President or by some one rising to a point of order. But here is a separate proposition, dividing the time by periods in a particular direction. I submit it is a dangerous precedent, a very dangerous precedent. Delegates may desire to speak at a particular juncture of debate and not at some other period of time. It should be left to them and the recognition they receive
from the Chair. I do not object to dividing the time of debate equally, if it is necessary.
Mr. H. A. Clark — Mr. President, I hope this resolution will prevail. Whilst several have spoken upon the different sides of this question, I consider that there is no great issue necessarily to be determined. There is nothing to interfere with this Convention meeting this afternoon, except the meeting of several committees. It seems to be well agreed that these committees may meet and go on with their duties, that no one is needed here this afternoon, except those who wish to speak. (Laughter.) The gentlemen from the Committee on Rules say it is not necessary for us to appear here; we can attend to our duties, with the understanding that delegates can go about their duties in the committee room and that the speakers only shall appear here this afternoon. I agree with the Committee on Rules that this rule should be adopted, it being understood that a vote shall not be taken until the evening session.
Mr. E. R. Brown— Mr. President, I dislike to take the further time of the Convention in this matter, but I know there are a number of men engaged on committees, who are very much interested in the suffrage question (and I am not one of them), and who desire to be heard on that subject, and whose presence in committee is absolutely essential this afternoon to the carrying on to a successful conclusion the work of those committees. I, therefore, hope this matter will be recommitted to the Committee on Rules, with instruc tions to report a rule on this subject which shall not provide for hearing this afternoon.
Mr. Choate Mr. President, after conferring with several members of the Committee on Rules and hearing what has been said here, I second the motion made by Mr. McClure to amend the rule offered by the Committee on Rules, by providing that the Convention meet at seven o'clock this evening, instead of this afternoon; that it be made a special order for that hour; that the vote be taken at ten o'clock and that the distribution of time be left as it is provided in the committee's report. It has been said here that very few gentlemen wish to be heard. I desire to state that last evening as many as sixteen names were sent to the Chair of gentlemen desiring to be heard. It was only possible to hear six of them. I understand that each of the other gentlemen has something entirely new and original to offer. (Laughter.) I, therefore, hope that the amendment proposed by Mr. McClure will be adopted. (Applause.)
The President pro tem.- The question is on the amendment