of a bill to difable any perfon holding certain offices, or who has, or fhall have, any pension during pleafure, or for any term or numbers of years, from the crown, from being chofen a member of, or from fitting and voting in the house of commons," which were received, read, and ordered to be committed on Monday Nov. 29. The officers to be excluded were commiffioners of customs or excife, or accounts, overfeers of barracks, furveyors general, &c.

Mr. Mason faid it was an abfurd bill, and Sir William Mayne replied, he only spoke from his own fears.

Mr. Langrifhe moved for leave to bring in "Heads of a bill for allowing farther time to persons in offices or employments to qualify, pursuant to an act, intitled an act to prevent the further growth of popery," which was granted; and that gentleman, with Mr. Vefey and Mr. Robert Fitzgerald, were ordered to prepare the fame.

Mr. Sollicitor General made his report from the committee of accounts, which was read.

Sir William Mayne moved to refolve, that the charges of the penfions on the civil and military establishment, for the two years, ending lady day 1773, exceeded all the other charges of civil government in the fum of 70,6141. 11s. 6d. f.

Mr. Mason faid as the penfions were opposed to the civil establishment alone, the civil penfions only ought to be confidered.

Sir William Mayne allowed the objection, and was willing to deduct the military and French pensions, on the last of which had been lately placed a lady who had efcaped out of a convent., He therefore ftruck military and French pensions out of his motion, and then the fum ftood 46,1061. 10s. 1cd. f.

Mr. Malone replied, if the charges of government were no more than had been mentioned, the nation could not be in debt.

Sir William Mayne agreed there was an inaccuracy, and altered his motion again to the other charges on the civil establishment.

Mr. Prime Serjeant objected to the motion, not as he doubted the accuracy of the gentleman's calculation, but they had no parliamentary proof before them, to warrant fuch a refolution.

a

Mr. O'Hara obferved, there was great arrear on the penfion lift, which greatly enhanced the account,

Mr. Serjeant Dennis oppofed the mo⚫ tion for the above reason.

Sir William Mayne anfwered, that the arrear did not make the yearly expence more or lefs. That the above fum was the real expence, and that he made this motion in the house, that whatever was the fate of it the fact might appear upon the votes, which it would not do, if made in the committee.

Mr. Ogle faid, the gentleman on the other fide put him in mind of the philofopher, who when his mother urged him to marry. faid he was too young; The waited a little while, and then asked him again, when he replied he was too old. Thus, when any notion difagreeable to adminiftration, was made in the committee, they cried out, it is premature, make it in the boufe; and when it was made in the house then it is too late: it should have been in the committee.

Mr. James Brown propofed an amendment, which was to add these words, although the fenfion lift has decreased 51311.

a year.

Mr. Mafon told the houfe, that Sir William Mayne's account was juft, for he had made the calculation himself.

Mr. Bushe said, that the pension of Jeremiah Dyson was included in the motion.

Mr. Ponfonby agreed, that it was, and ought to be deducted from the fum.

Mr. Solicitor General obferved, that it ought to be included, for it was ftill returned on the establishment, and must be struck out when the committee of fupplies had agreed not to provide for it,

Mr. Montgomery (of Cavan) replied, that penfions ought to be mentioned every where, in order to be opposed every where.

The report of the committee of accounts was referred to, and it was found that the penfion of Mr. Dyfon was mark ed as not to be allowed; and then Sir William Mayne withdrew his motion.

Mr. Gorge then arofe to make his motion, which had been poftponed from Friday laft, and Sir William Mayne arofe at the fame time to continue his motions. One part of the house called on Mr. Gorge to proceed, and the other part on Sir William; and a warm difpute arofe to whom priority ought to be given confiftent with the rules of parliament. Mr. Prime Serjeant fpoke for Mr. Gorge. Mr. Ponfonby tor Sir William. Colonel Brown propofed to put a queftion upon it; Mr. Prime Serjeant spoke agan

that the propofed motion fhould have the preference. Mr. Huffey oppofed it, and faid, though Sir William might fit down if asked, as an indulgence to the other member; yet he need not do it if infifted on as a right, fince it might afford a dangerous precedent. Mr Prime Serjeant propofed a compromife, that Sir William might go on with one motion, and then give way to Mr. Gorge. Mr. Huffey infifted that thould be left to Sir William's difcretion. Sir William Ofborne was of opinion, that if Sir William Mayne's motions had reference to the report of the committee of accounts, that was the bufinefs then before them, and they ought to have a preference. Colonel Brown then withdrew his motion to put the question. Mr. Tighe obferved that there was a flanding order, that no motion for new matter fhould be made after a fixed hour without leave of the houfe. The Speaker faid there was indeed fuch an order, but it was obfolete, and had never been minded. The Marquis of Kildare infifted that Sir William's motions were not new matter, but a continuation of what was before them.

Sir William Mayne then moved, to refolve that the expences of government, for the two last years, were 1,731,0051. 8s. od. h. and the nett produce of the revenue only 1,394,7751 8s. 5d. 3f. fo that the expences exceeded the income of government in the fum of 336,2291. 19s. 6d

38.

The Attorney General anfwered, this motion was quite unneceffary, for the deduction appeared already in the report of the committee of accounts, which he pointed out in the report, and then Sir William withdrew his motion.

Mr. Gorge then arofe, and faid, "That in the prefent diftreffed ftate of the nation, reductions were neceffary on all fides, and that parliament fhould reftrict Its grants for public ufes to as narrow a compafs as might be confiftent with reafon. That he had made a calculation in his own mind of what would be neceffary, though, to ufe the words of an eminent author, he fhould thereby wage war with the huge army of the world's Defires. He heartily wifhed our circumftances would admit of fuch an unbounded liberality, as might enable us to extend the paths of fcience, that our name might equal that of the ancient Romans, and make Ireland a school of arts; yet, wever we might afpire to elegance, we t now ftudy to be frugal, before we

fought to be refined. He had drawn a line which gentlemen would extend or contract, as they thought fit; but, that he would move the house to come to this refolution.

"That the fum to be granted by this "koufe this feffion of parliament, except in fupport of his majesty's go"vernment, fhall not exceed in the "whole the fun of 29000l. But this re"folution is not to extend to any motion, "or any petition for local duties, nor "for separate duties to the Dublin fo"ciety."

"Mr. Chapman replied, that, that gentleman's idea was in unifon with his own; that retrenchments were neceflary on all fides; that this nation had been long a nation of jobbs. But, that the fickle would in vain cut the obnoxious weed, whilft the root remained untouched. That the profufion of government had worse consequences than the liberality of parliament; the firft was the means of corruption, the latter of internal improvement; the one was partly spent abroad by absentees, the other all fpent at home. This very motion proved that all perfons agreed that the nation was diftreffed; and yet, while charities and bounties must be abridged, new taxes are threatened. But, he hoped, government, like most dealers, afked more than they would take, on purpose to be able to make abatement. That the fum propofed by this motion was too little, and that the real wants of the people ought not to be neglected, to provide for the imaginary wants of government.

Mr. Gorge anfwered that the neceffity of retrenchment appeared from the paucity of refources.

Mr. Barry Barry faid, the propofed fum was too fmall to answer the demands which were abfolutely neceffary, for the debts of the poor house alone amounted to 14,ocol.

The Marquis of Kildare opposed the motion as inopportune, the house having no parliamentary knowledge that the reduction faid to be made by government had been actually made. That such was the poverty of the manufacturers, that they must farve if the bounty of parliament was withheld; that this very day he had feen numbers of poor weavers, who declared if they had no relief they muft quit their looms and go over to America.

Mr. Ogle obferved that every one agreed reduction was necessary, but the

difagreement was about the mode. That he thought parliament ought to reduce its grants in proportion as government retrenched its expence :-nay, it had already done fo. Government had difmiffed five new commiffioners, and the expence for them was reduced from 1000l. a year falary each, to 600l. a year each penfion, fo there was 2000l. a year faved, and by the discharging the additional furveyors general, &c. government had retrenched, in the whole, about 4000l. a year, which was not so much in proportion as the retrenchments the houfe had made in the article of ftationary ware. But the true intentions of adminiftration might be seen in keeping Sir Francis Bernard as a commiffioner on this eftablishment, though he never fet a foot in Ireland; and was, as he understood, out of his fenfes, whilft gentlemen who were educated in the fchool of the revenue, were turned out.

Mr. Barry Barry said the grants for premiums, &c. were 57,000l. and if they retrenched 7,00ol. it would be enough; he therefore moved for the fum of 50,000l. in the place of the words twenty-nine thousand.

Colonel Burton remarked, that if ten thousand pounds were given to the linen manufactory, and as much to the charter fchools, and the other nine thousand for the expences of the house, the fum propofed would do, as local and feparate duties might be raised for other charities and bounties.

Mr. Huffey faid it was argued by gentlemen for government, that no plan of reducing the expences of adminiitration could, with propriety, be refolved on until the committee of supplies were fitting, yet now they wanted to form a plan, mentioning a precife fum to limit the bounties of parliament, that this was very strange doctrine; if the one was unfair, furely the other must be the fame, as the like information to both muft come from the committee of fupplies; that formal eftimates were as equally necellary for the reduction of expences, as for the limiting parliamentary grants; that if this was not allowed, the converfe was not equally true; that the fum of 29,000l.must, on all hands, be allowed infufficient; and that the right of the people was equally facred to limit the prerogative of the crown, as that prerogative was to tie up the hands of parliament; he therefore begged leave to propofe an amendment to precede the last, by striking out_the_words, ex◄

"cept for the fupport of government." The queftion was put, whether those words fhould ftand part of the motion, and it was carried in the affirmative.

Mr. Ponsonby agreed, that parliament should retrench all they could, but should not be deaf to the calls of humanity and religion, and that 10000l. would be too little for the charter schools.

Mr. Lodge Morres obferved, that fchemes had been hinted at for local and feparate duties, but that he could not be for the motion till those schemes had been declared.

Sir Lucius O'Brien thought the first ftep ought to be, to confider, what was due, that juftice obliged the house to provide for; this could not be known till the committee of fupplies fat, and then it might be determined what was fit to be granted.

Mr. Folter fpoke in behalf of the foundling hofpital.

Mr. Prime Serjeant replied to this, That he never meant to say any thing to the injury of any charity; but that his ideas tended to create a local fund, which would make for the foundling hofpital feven thousand pounds yearly-that this fund thould be created by parliament, and have a borrowing clause, enabling the governors to raise a sum of money-and that parliament fhould give leave to the vice treasurer to lend that fum-though he did not apprehend they would ever be under the neceffity of asking government, as they would always find gentlemen fufficient to lend, at 4 1-half or 5 per cent, on fo good fecurity-that if any other more feasible scheme could be propofed, it fhould have his concurrence-but that he abfolutely thought it was neceffary to lay the foundling hofpital under fome restraint, as children were daily imported from Wales, and it was a receptacle for the whole kingdom▬▬ that in England there was a limitation of this kind, and he thought it would be of infinite fervice here -that as to the Dublin fociety, if it was under the fame regulation, and appropriated duties applied to them, it would anfwer much better.

Mr. Barry was not fure that thofe local duties would pass the houfe; and then, if no money was granted, the charities would be ruined; befide, if they did pafs, the charities ought firft to be made clear of all debts.

Mr. Vandeleur thought it was very ftrange, fo much trouble was found in granting money for works of public utili

nd the third clafs of thofe above forty, ith benefit of furvivorship on each clafs. He then explained what taxes would e propofed, and moved, ift, that the ebt of the nation was —. This motion e moved to poftpone till the fame could e afcertained.

2. That a supply be granted for the upport of government. Mr. Huffey moved to poftpone that motion alfo, which was ftrongly oppofed. The house divided, ayes 62, noes 115. The queftion was then put on the refolution, and carried.

3. That 12000 effective men are neceffary for the defence of this nation.Carried.

4. That the augmentation of 3046 effective men be provided for.-Carried. Mr. Ponfonby moved to grant 4000l. for the Speaker.—Carried.

5. The referred motion of Mr. Gorge was next moved, and produced a long debate on the fame ground, as on yefterday; feventeen different amendments were propofed, and at length the question was put, whether the words thirty thoufand should not ftand in the place of the words twenty-five thousand, (for the four thoufand voted for the Speaker, had been deducted out of the twenty-nine thousand in the original motion) and it was carried for the fum of thirty thousand. It was then moved to add for the linen manufacture, the proteftant charter schools; and, before the words Dublin fociety (see the motion of yesterday) and the queftion was carried, with this amendment.

The chief point of the debate was the propriety of local duties, against which were Mr. Ponsonby, Sir William Mayne, Mr. Fortefcue, Mr. Barry Barry, lord Kildare, Sir Lucius O'Brien, Mr. Ogle, Mr. Gardiner, Mr. Lodge Morres, Mr. Holmes, Mr. Huffey, Mr. Forfier, Mr. Chapman, Mr. Hamilton; and in Behalf of them, Colonel Blaquiere, Mr. Mafon, Mr. Prime Serjeant, Mr. Langrifhe, Mr. Scott, Mr. Flood, Col. Brown, Mr. Attorney General, and Mr. Solicitor General.

On Monday, November 17, Peter Heverin, merchant, petitioned for fome relief for a lofs of 2191. 16s. 5d, by goods deftroyed by fome rioters, and of 221. 11s. 6d. expences in profecuting the rioters. This petition was ordered to lie upon the table.

Ifaac Solomon petitioned for aid to fit up an hofpital for fifty intern patients, which was also ordered to lie upon the

The committee of commiffioners for carrying on the navigation of the river Lagan petitioned to the fame purport as the petitions from Lifburn, Belfast and Moira, which was referred to a committee.

The committee of fupply then fat again, and made a further progrefs, and on the next day finished its business.

On Friday, Nov. 19, Mr. Malone made the report from the committee of fupply, which confifted of thirty-five refolutions. viz.

1. That the national debt at Lady day, 1773, was a fum not exceeding 994,890l. 10s. 10d. h.

2. That a fupply be granted to pay the faid debt, and for the several establishments, from Dec. 25, 1773, to Dec, 25, 1775.

3. That 12000 effective men were neceflary.

4. That the augmentation of 3046 effective men be continued for two years, from June 1, 1773.

5. That 4000l. be given to the Spea

ker.

6. That 2000l. per ann. for two years be given to the linen board for the raifing of hemp and flax.

7. That 2000l. per ann. be given to the linen board, to encourage the hempen and linen manufactures.

8. That these fums be exempt from fees.

9. That £500 be given to Agmondifham Vefey, Efq; accountant-general, for ftating the public accounts.

10. £300 to Henry Gore, Efq; for making out the imports and exports for two years.

11. £500 to Edward Stirling and Henry Alcock, Efq; clerks of the house, for their attendance this feffions.

12. £200 to Thomas Kirby, clerk afliftant, for do.

13. £800 to Dixie Coddington, Efq; ferjeant at arms, for do.

14. £350 to Benjamin Higgins and George Melvin, committee clerks, fordo. 15. 112 to Abraham Bradley, for printing the public accounts.

16. 50 to Hulton Bradley, for delivering the votes.

17. 100 to James M'Cowen, and George Harpur, door keepers. 18.

200 to the back door keeper. and thirteen messengers.

19. 1oco to Roger Palmer, E pay mafter of corn premiums, for his e iraordinary trouble,