interested in it, as I am, and interested for the reasons that I am, you would expand this bill, and make your restrictions much more severe. Mr. BURKE. Do I understand you to say, Mr. McCrea, that you framed this bill?

Mr. MCCREA. Yes, sir. I realize one other proposition, and that is, we are possibly getting on very tender ground when we talk about the regulation of storage and the sale of explosives. But do you know that to-day there is not a city in this country where your boy, or an anarchist, or anybody that chooses to, can not go into a store and buy a stick of dynamite just as readily as he can buy a stick of candy?

Doctor DUDLEY. Except in New York, where they have recently covered that situation very completely; but I do not know that it is covered anywhere else.

Mr. MCCREA. It is not infrequent for you to pick up a paper and see that a saloon has been dynamited, or John Smith's house has been dynamited because he was a Baptist when he ought to have been a Methodist, or something of that sort.

Mr. BURKE. Is it true there is no legislation now governing the shipment of high explosives?

Mr. MCCREA. None that I know of.

Mr. BURKE. Is there no State legislation?

Mr. MCCREA. None that I know of.

Mr. BURKE. And it is regulated only by such rules as the railroad companies have seen fit to make for their own security?

Mr. MCCREA. We have done the best we could with it.

Mr. BURKE. If you desired, you could have trains, half passenger and half freight, and the freight cars loaded with dynamite, if you wanted?

Mr. MCCREA. No; not in Pennsylvania. The only law I know of is the law of Pennsylvania, which says it shall not be carried on passenger trains.

Mr. RICHARDSON. Why is it that there has not been more general legislation in the United States on this subject-for instance, to prevent the sale of a stick of dynamite? Give us your reasons why you think the States have not acted on such a dangerous matter. It perilously approaches that great question of putting a trammel upon the freedom of individual action. Perhaps that is it?

Mr. MCCREA. I was going to answer your question by saying that, frankly, I do not know why it is unless it is politics, or perhaps it has been the pressure of manufacturers, or perhaps it is the fear of raising the question which you suggest. Doctor Dudley tells me what I did not know that in New York City they have taken hold of it and probably largely provided against it from that standpoint.

The original legislation in England governing explosives was started with a view to controlling it at the time of the Fenian outrages, when bombs and dynamite were used. They started then to control it. was started originally, not from the standpoint of making safe the transportation of it, but to prevent its use for illegal purposes.

Mr. RICHARDSON. I did not mean to indicate that there is a parallel, or that the same principle applies to the law forbidding the sale of a stick of dynamite in a State and the proposition you make.

other question is a serious one.

Mr. MCCREA. I did not touch that in this bill.

But the

Mr. RICHARDSON. I see you did not. There is a great difference.

You merely give your views about it. You know we have assassinations, and everything else.

Mr. MCCREA. If you will allow me, I have not had very much political experience, but, knowing as much as I do about this matter and seeing what I have seen about it, if I were an individual on this committee I would work very hard to have the whole proposition looked into, even if I did tread dangerously on municipal and State rights. You know Congress is doing a great many things in connection with transportation that are wise, and I am glad that they have done them, and in most cases I have advocated them; but all the same, if you would get down to the strictest kind of old states-rights doctrine, Congress had not any right to do what has been done; but it was nevertheless right and proper, and I am glad that it has been done, and I would like to see Congress make another effort in the line of regulating the manufacture, transportation, storage, and sale of explosives.

Mr. RICHARDSON. What is that you state about the old states-rights doctrine?

Mr. MCCREA. I will withdraw it. [Laughter.]

Mr. RICHARDSON. We will eliminate that from the record.
Mr. MCCREA. I hope all I say will not be taken down.

Mr. ADAMSON. That doctrine is very popular up North with anybody whose interest it is to invoke it.

Mr. MCCREA. I want to apologize for this bill, and say it is not as complete as it ought to be. And the only reason is that I did not know how to make it better, and I did not have the facilities for getting at the details as I should have had. It has only been recently that I have been able to get translations of the German laws. In Germany if a large shipment is to be made from one point to another a man has to be sent with the shipment.

I want to be frank, and I think it is safe to say that probably 75 per cent of the accidents that have happened and of the explosions that have taken place have been the fault of the transporters because their servants did not do as they were told to do or because the regulations were so binding and stringent that they could not be made to work in with the other business. But traffic is now flowing in such large bodies that it is a great deal like flood water in a river. You can not row a boat and steer it clear of every obstacle as easily in time of flood as you can when the water is low, the current sluggish, and the channel free from obstructions. I do not care whether it is dynamite or pig iron or cotton, everything has to be made so that it will stand the chanches of the ordinary rough usage which it is bound to receive at some time in the course of its movement.

Mr. ADAMSON. You heard our young friend from New York suggesting that they had a formula by which they manufacture a safe combustible?

Mr. MCCREA. Yes, sir.

Mr. ADAMSON. I want to ask you if your plan of inspection, after providing for safety, would not give to him all the benefit he claims?

Mr. MCCREA. Yes; I think so; it is for the inspector to say. I tried very carefully to avoid being inquisitorial. I do not want to know what is the composition of explosives, only I insist that the Government should know enough to say whether it is safe to transport.

Mr. ADAMSON. He could satisfy the inspector, so that it would be covered by the inspector's stamp?

Mr. MCCREA. Yes; all I am asking is to secure its regulation and to see that the goods manufactured are safe for transportation and for the kind of transportation they are bound to get.

The CHAIRMAN. Would there be any objection, or would it seriously harm the harmony of this bill, if we were to exclude from its operation all of that which comes under the definition of ammunition that you have here, commencing on line 21, on page 2? There you find the definition of the word "ammunition." It covers cartridges used by sporting men, and fuses, and matters of that kind. Now, suppose you were to add to that section a proviso like this: "Provided, That explosives that fall under the term ammunition' shall be excluded from the operation of this act." Would that mar the general purposes of the bill? I suppose every member of this committee has had communications and correspondence about this subject. I have had a dozen telegrams, I think, protesting against interfering with the right to transport this character of explosive cartridges used in sporting, or fowling pieces, or rifle or pistol practice.

Mr. MCCREA. I think that could be excluded. It certainly could be, I should say, from line 21 to 24.

Mr. STEVENS. On page 5, paragraph b—how much does that paragraph change the method of transportation from that which is now used ordinarily or that which you now compel?

Mr. MCCREA. None of these really make any changes. These are practically copied from our regulations as they exist now.

Mr. STEVENS. It would not make any difference?

Mr. MCCREA. No, sir; I think not.

Mr. RICHARDSON. You could take the bill, as the chairman suggests, and readily eliminate the things he suggests? It is your bill, and you

know what is in it?

Mr. MCCREA. As far as I am concerned, I do not want to eliminate from this bill. I would like to add to it.

Mr. RICHARDSON. The elimination of the matter from lines 21 to 24 possibly might affect something else in the bill?

Mr. MCCREA. If you will allow me, I would like to have Doctor Dudley, the chemist of the Pennsylvania Railroad, speak to you.

The CHAIRMAN. This committee has no power-in fact, it is prohibited from sitting during the sessions of the House; and we are violating that rule in order to hear you in this matter.

Mr. MCCREA. I was only going to ask you that you allow the Doctor to answer the question that was asked me in regard to the provision on page 5 as to packing.

The CHAIRMAN. Perhaps the committee at a later time would like to

hear him.

Mr. STEVENS. I think we ought to if we take up this subject.

Mr. MCCREA. The Doctor will be very glad to stay if you think you will fix another time.

Doctor DUDLEY. I am quite at the control of the committee, and any time you want me I will be here.

The CHAIRMAN. Will it suit you to be here to-morrow?

Doctor DUDLEY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Then we will say that at 12 o'clock to-morrow we will take up your branch of the matter.

Thereupon, at 12:35 o'clock p. m., the committee took a recess until 10:30 a. m. to-morrow, March 19, 1904.

MARCH 19, 1904, p. m.

STATEMENT OF DR. CHARLES B. DUDLEY, CHEMIST, OF THE PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD COMPANY, ALTOONA, PA.

Doctor DUDLEY. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, this bill (H. R. 11964) concerns the safe transportation of explosives. As we understand the matter, the safe transportation of explosives depends on two parties, first, the maker of the explosive, and, second, the parties who actually handle it in transportation. This bill concerns only the makers. Now, in order that you may understand the situation, I may say, at present, as we understand the matter, there is very little legislation on the subject of handling of explosives or their manufacture. The only law with which any of us are conversant in Pennsylvania is the single law in the statutes of Pennsylvania, that explosives shall not be carried on passenger trains, but a control of the subject in any shape or form by legislation is at present, as we understand the matter, not in legislation.

Now, in order that you may understand what is involved in this bill, let me give a few explanations leading up to it. These explanations consist in trying to show why it is necessary to have something done to control the manufacture and packing. We are speaking especially of what is known as high explosives, which are principally, in this country at least, and abroad practically, nitroglycerin compounds, so I will take a nitroglycerin compound as my type for explanation. Nitroglycerin, as you doubtless know, is made by having a bath of mixed sulphuric and nitric acid as strong as it is possible to get, and then adding in a small stream the common glycerin. As the material goes in the nitric acid of the bath it combines chemically with the glycerin, forming a new compound-nitroglycerin—the sulphuric acid acting as a concentrator, to keep the nitric acid concentrated, so that it will form the reaction.

The reaction is connected with the development of considerable heat, and the man who does this work keeps his eye on the thermometer most of the time, so as to see that he does not get too high a temperature, for nitroglycerin itself will explode by heat alone when it reaches a temperature of about 325° F., which is simply due to heat alone. Take a little in a dish and heat it up to that temperature and away she goes, and that is the explanation of so many accidents that take place in thawing out nitroglycerin. Nitroglycerin freezes at a temperature of about 50° F., and in a frozen condition is not efficient as an explosive, consequently the constant disposition is to thaw it out. If you set it near a stove, as many ignorant miners do, it reaches a temperature at which the decomposition takes place. Now, during manufacture the material is artificially cooled by cold water or ice, either way, usually around the outside of the vessel or with pipes running through it to keep the temperature down. That is not material for our purpose.

The point I am trying to make to you now is to explain to you why, from a transportation standpoint, it is essential to have some control over the manufacture. I think you will see my point as I go on. The charge being completed, usually about a thousand pounds being made at once, the acid is drawn off. The nitroglycerin does not dissolve

in the acids, but settles to the bottom, being heavier, so that a portion is recovered for further use. The balance of that nitroglycerin goes into the bath of water, the process being now, just as soon as convenient and possible, to remove all the acid that there is there left; that is to say, we want now to get the nitroglycerin absolutely free from acid, so that it is washed in water two or three times, then washed in soda water, so as to have the soda neutralize any acid there may be, and finally the soda is washed away again as the final washing.

Now, the object of all this is, namely, that acid nitroglycerin is exceedingly sensitive. It has been proven by careful experiments and numerous accidents that if acid is left in contact with nitroglycerin it becomes infinitely more sensitive than in the ordinary condition. Ordinarily nitroglycerin is merely yellowish in color; acid nitroglycerin is greenish in color, but so sensitive does it become that if you had a bottle with nitroglycerin in it with which acid had been in contact for a period of time, and would put a glass rod in that and get a drop on it, and take it there and let it drop on the floor it is claimed just simply the shock of dropping on the floor would be sufficient to explode this acid nitroglycerin. We insist on this point so much because the proper neutralization is recognized throughout the world as one of the essential features in the safe transportation of the explosive. If the material is not properly neutralized, the material is much more liable to explosion from shock than if it was properly neutralized and the material is much more hazardous to transport.

Mr. MANN. Do you mean by that that the acid has not been washed? Doctor DUDLEY. Has not been completely washed out. You are just right, if there is any of the acid that does not enter into the combination. Understand me, that the acid that enters into the combination is all right, that takes care of itself; but any that is left over and above that is not washed, if there is any left, the nitroglycerin becomes much more sensitive. To such an extent is this believed to be an important element in the manufacture that the best manufacturers use, as I will explain to you in a moment, a material that is known as an antacid now-an absorbing material.

Now, let me say that glycerin having been made, no attempt is made to transport it in the liquid form. For many years no attempt has been made to transport nitroglycerin in the liquid form except for the single purpose of torpedoing oil wells. The torpedoing of oil wells is generally done with the liquid nitroglycerin in tin cans, and during Mr. Mowbray's life, when the Hoosac tunnel was being built, the nitroglycerin was used there, and was made right on the ground, the reason for that being that the rock of the Hoosac tunnel was so awfully hard that the ordinary nitroglycerin powder, which I am going to explain to you in a moment, would not tear it to pieces. But nowhere, as I know of, is anything like nitroglycerin carried in the liquid form. It is carried absorbed in other materials. Now, the absorbent is usually wood pulp. For many years it was sawdust, but it has been found that wood can be ground in a beryl millstone and made a valuble and efficient absorbent for nitroglycerin.

Unfortunately the grinding of the wood can not take place with the seasoned wood, because if you do that the mills take fire; so the wood has to be ground green. That gives you a damp absorbent--a damp wood pulp. You will see the force of this in a moment. In addition to wood pulp the absorbent contains almost always nitrate of soda.