and helped build it, and I was there until the spring of 1910. I am very familiar with the prospects that were held up before them when they spent the millions of dollars that it took to build that railroad, and it seems to me almost a calamity to think that after they had spent those millions of dollars in building up one of the finest railroads running to the West from the Lakes, the Panama Canal took away practically all of that business, and they had to reduce their schedule between those points until now they are operating about one train a day in each direction.

Now, it is, of course, true that what we are asking here would not give us entire relief, but we believe it would give considerable relief. The question that we believe is before you is whether or not Congress would give favorable consideration to permitting the railroads to have the same opportunity that is given other means of transportation, either by removing the restrictions that are on them or by adding to the restrictions that the others have. Now, we appreciate the fact that to endeavor to add restrictions to the others would meet with opposition; and for that reason we believe that favorable consideration should be given this particular bill, and we hope sincerely that this committee and this Congress will endeavor to have it passed as quickly as it is possible to pass it.

It may be that some remark might be made about the employees of the railroads in this particular bill, and if such is done it seems proper to recite to you that Congressman Shannon had a committee that held investigations of protest of the Government being in business, and that there were 300 different organizations that spoke against the restrictions that were given them and the privileges that were given to others.

We believe in this case that the Government is partially in the transportation business when it furnishes highways over which the busses and trucks may operate, and when it dredges out ditches and makes canals of them and then builds transportation systems on which is transported business that we really believe should be given to the railroads.

Now, all of that is unfair to railroad employees, and against it we wish to enter a protest, and again we appeal to you to give this particular bill consideration and give us the relief which is asked for at the earliest date possible.

Now, at the beginning of my remarks I stated that we had an employee from the State of Utah; and at this time I wish to introduce to you Mr. Pell, who is an officer in the State Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers in the State of Utah.

Mr. MARTIN. Thank you very much for your statement, Mr. Corbett.

Mr. CORBETT. Thank you.

Mr. MARTIN. We will be glad to hear from Mr. Pell.

STATEMENT OF W. 0. PELL, OGDEN, UTAH

Mr. PELL. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, my name is W. O. Pell. My address is 321 Twentieth Street, Ogden, Utah. I am employed as an engineer on the Southern Pacific Lines out of Ogden. I am chairman of the Utah unit of the western conference committee of the standard railroad labor organizations. This com

mittee was formed for the purpose of providing an organization through which our members could find a substantial means for expressing the drastic need for modification of the fourth section of the Interstate Commerce Act to permit the rail lines to fairly compete with other forms of transportation.

During the last 25 years, the Intermediate Rate Association, together with other such organizations, has blocked every effort of railway employees and railway managements to secure an open and free understanding of the economic effects of rigid enforcement of the fourth section. It was our purpose to make known as widely as possible to the people of Utah the effects of this fourth section not only upon railroad labor and managements, but upon the State as a whole.

Mr. MARTIN. Well, Mr. Pell, if you will permit me, I believe that is about the first time the Intermediate Rate Association has been mentioned. It may have been mentioned before, but I do not recall it. What is that association; what does it comprise?

Mr. PELL. That association, I understand, a number of years ago was the Utah Citizens' Rate Association, or the Utah Rate Association.

Mr. SOLEM. Would you permit me to interrupt there, Mr. Chairman?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. SOLEM. I think perhaps the secretary should identify the organization just referred to. It was the Intermountain Rate Association.

Mr. PELL. Intermountain rather than Intermediate?

Mr. SOLEM. Yes.

Mr. MARTIN. You may proceed, Mr. Pell.

Mr. PELL. During the last 18 months the members of our coinmittee have devoted their free time to the greatest extent possible in bringing these facts before the public.

The question may be asked, "Do the people of the State of Utah desire repeal or modification of the fourth section of the Interstate Commerce Act as proposed in House of Representatives bill 3263?"

This may be answered by stating that of the 49 groups of business and professional organizations, chambers of commerce, city and county commissions, 22 have gone on record favoring such action.

The other 27, with the exception of two, have assured us they would give such a question favorable consideration. It will be noted that only two such organizations have expressed themselves as being definitely opposed to modification of the fourth section of the Interstate Commerce Act, and one of these was the chamber of commerce of Provo, Utah.

I would point out, however, that the members of this organization responsible for the passage of that resolution are competitors of the railroads, some of them being engaged in the automobile industry and therefore having a personal purpose in defeating such legislation.

I wish to point out also that the city commission of Provo and the county commissioners of Utah County, in which the city of Provo is located, are on record by resolution, after full hearings, in favor of the passage of the bill under discussion.

The unemployment situation in Utah is so acute that some movement had to be inaugurated to get more men reemployed. Out of

a population of 507,000, over 100,000 are on relief rolls. In discussing this problem with other railroad brotherhood officers, I am told that 10 percent of all the unemployed workers in the United States are unemployed railroad men. I believe this is a fair statement and, applied to Utah, if we could get railroad employment to anywhere near normal, it would automatically remove more than 10,000 men from the relief rolls.

In checking over the annual reports of the six trunk lines we have in Utah, we find that in 1929 they handled 101,175,777 revenue tons, employing 121,756 persons. In 1933, the same railroads handled only 49,550,203 revenue tons, and employed only 63,385 persons.

In 1924, manufactured items passing through the Panama Canal amounted to 46.5 percent of the general cargo. In 1933, the manufactured items amounted to 86.1 percent of the general cargo, which indicates clearly that a great deal of the traffic that had formerly moved over the railroads is now moving by way of the Panama Canal.

If the rail lines could regain 25 percent of the traffic now moving by intercoastal steamships, it would mean 52,703 additional carloads, based on the 1931 reports. If this amount of traffic were moved over the rail lines, it would mean the reemployment of approximately 94,000 furloughed railroad employees.

Not only are the railroads now excluded from participation in this traffic but they are practically excluded from any of the substantial increases in this traffic which must come as the country recovers from the economic depression from which we are now passing. It must be recalled that shippers under the depression have of necessity cut every possible penny of expense and have therefore gone to the cheapest method of transportation-the intercoastal steamship line-and unless we are granted relief under the fourth section, there is little hope of regaining any of the traffic, even on such business as now would be moving over the rails had there been no depression.

Thus, you can see that employees in other industries may hope for reemployment as normal conditions return, but there is no hope for furloughed railroad employees unless the fourth section of the Interstate Commerce Act is modified to permit the railroads to compete for some of this traffic.

Utah is fairly representative of all the Intermountain States in which railroad labor constitutes a very impressive percentage of all labor employed. The citizens of Utah have a very definite interest in modification of the fourth section because such modification, beyond question, will lead to improved conditions in that State.

Reverting back to the averages of 1929 and 1930, there were 12,000 railroad employees in Utah and more than 50,000 people-families of the railroad employees-dependent upon the railroads for a livelihood. The annual pay roll for railroad employees was $20,000,000. In 1934 the employment of railroad men had dropped to 7,802, and the pay rolls had been reduced from $20,000,000 to $10,556,657.

The railroads pay into the State of Utah in the form of taxes $2,732,729 annually, and the railroad employees pay approximately $229,484.80. The railroad taxes were apportioned approximately as follows: Roads and highways, $293,139.85; charity, $131,471.59; schools, $1,547,480.39; counties, general, $197,275.71; cities and towns,

$249,580.15; State, general, $213,672.09; miscellaneous, $139.30, making a total of $2,732,729.08.

As a specific instance of what these tax payments mean to the State of Utah, I refer to the taxes paid by the Southern Pacific Co. to the county of Box Elder. I made a check 2 years ago and found that the railroad received approximately $65,000 in revenue from that county. The railroad in turn paid into the county treasury the sum of over $200,000 in taxes.

Thus it can be seen that the county received what might be called a virtual gift from the railroad of $135,000. Most of the land over which this railroad passes in the State of Utah produces very little gross income, the line being dependent for support almost entirely upon bridge traffic. There are not enough industries in the State of Utah to maintain six trunk lines. Nevertheless, the six trunk lines must pass through Utah to make connections in the East, and have to depend upon bridge traffic for their revenues.

For the purpose of the record I would like to offer the following exhibit: I have some graphs that show the employees, the relation of the railroad employment that it bears to fluctuation in revenue-tons handled; I also have a graph that shows the revenue-tons passing through the Panama Canal, and also data covering the entire situation, which I would like to have the privilege of leaving with you. Mr. MARTIN. Is that in such shape that it can be printed in the

record?

Mr. PELL. This is in graph form.

Mr. MARTIN. Very well; it will be inserted in the record at this point.

(The table and graphs above referred to are as follows:)