lords St. Vincent and Rosslyn, to shew that these instructions were a mass of accumulated frauds and delusion; and after guarding himself against misconstruction, by stating that the name of the venerable character that appeared affixed to it, was only there in form, as from the state of his health at the time, it was impossible that it could have been his production, he declared, in the face of the house, that these instructions he would not himself have signed. When he had found them in the office, he did not believe that they were the production of that great man, and on inquiry had discovered that the instructions had been drawn up by a right hon. colleague of that venerated person, who acted for him during the latter part of his illness. If this was the old system of morality, if these were the frauds and delusions practised by the priests of the old school, he thanked God they had been departed from. Such delusions might often have been practised, but he had never seen them so set down before. He knew not how these instructions could be defended. It might be upon the difference of the imminence of the peril. At the time of the Lisbon expedition, Buonaparte was distracted with a rising continental war; at the period of the Copenhagen expedition, he was combining conquered

eventual hostility with Russia was to have been apprehended; they yet had a hope, that, in the interval, some circumstance might occur, which, if improved, might preserve the relations between the two nations undisturbed. This was precisely consonant to the views held out, and the communications made by his noble friend. But, whilst they felt a hope that war might be avoided, it was their duty not to have neglected any measure of security against the combination of Russia, which was the most probable alternative. The hon. gent. who had just sat down, had again insisted on an argument, which all who had preceded him appeared to have abandoned, viz. that the expedition to Copenhagen had produced the war with Russia. If the papers on the table did not prove that not to have been the case, if the Russian Declaration since published, if the conduct of Russia towards Sweden, did not disprove it, he could refer to the authority of a person of the first rank in Russia, to prove the contrary to have been the case. Count Romanzow, in his interview with the English merchants at St. Petersburgh, stated as one of the instances of our barbarous conduct to Russia, that we had detained a frigate laden with specie, to which they replied, that it had happened after a declaration of war; Aye, said count Romanzow, but did we not suffer the Astræa fri-Europe against this country: in the former gate laden with specie to depart after we had determined to go to war with G. Britain? The Astræa had sailed from Memel on the 27th of July, months before any declaration of war, and weeks before any intelligence could have been received of the expedition to Copenhagen. This circumstance shewed that that expedition was not the cause of the war. As to the indignation expressed by the hon. gent. because his noble friend had stated, that any administration would have acted in the same manner under the same circumstances, he had but to observe, that as his noble friend thought differently of the measure from the hon. gent. it was not surprising that he should have said that those ministers, who had undertaken the expedition to Lisbon, would have acted in the same manner at Copenhagen. But he would have reason to be offended, if his noble friend had asserted the converse of this proposition; that those who had acted at Copenhagen would have conducted the Lisbon expedition, in the manner in which it had been conducted. Here he quoted several passages from the instructions to VOL. X.

case, the fleet of Portugal could not easily be brought to act in conjunction with any other naval force; the Danish fleet, on the contrary, was the point where the junction most formidable to Britain, of the northern fleets, might have been effected: the peril was not more imminent for an army placed at a six weeks march distance at Bayonne, than to Holstein from an army at Hamburgh. The force sent out to Copenhagen was such as to ensure the success of the expedition with the least possible loss; and the naked opinion of Mr. Garlike was not to be taken without the circumstances, under which he stated, that the Danish fleet should make no effort to defend Holstein, that she should have a timely concert with Sweden, and that a good understanding should continue between Great Britain and Russia. Notice of these contingencies had taken place. The measure was to be defended without proceeding one step from the law of nature or nations, and whatever might be the vote of that night, he and his colleagues would have the satisfaction to reflect, that their measures had been successful, and promoted the security of the empire. 4 K

Lord H. Petty replied to the observations | affected by it, but which their lordships of the secretary for foreign affairs. The had refused to hear. Amongst this class noble lord shewed, by referring to the dis- of persons the measure was generally conpatches of Mr. Garlike, that Denmark was demned. It had been said, however, that taking no measures that could warrant the several merchants highly approved of slightest suspicion of any design on her these Orders. This, he thought, required part to act against this country. As to explanation. The manufacturers who the Russian war, the noble lord was will-contributed so essentially to the prosperity ing to concede, that even if the Danish of the country, immediately felt their efexpedition had not taken place, that war fects, in the suspension of orders, and the would have arisen; but yet it would have stagnation of their trade; but there were been a war of a different character. We merchants who engaged in foreign comshould not have had the opinion and peo- merce, and having a large stock of foreign ple of Russia and of the civilized world commodities on their hands, would feel against us, which the Danish expedition that the suspension of foreign commerce had produced. Upon the nature of the would greatly enhance the price of the arguments adduced by the right hon. se- articles on hand, and thus largely increase cretary and his advocates, the noble lord their profits; they might, therefore, apanimadverted at some length. He con- prove of these Orders, inasmuch as they ceived those gentlemen, as it were, to con- were beneficial to their particular interfess the inefficacy of a war of justice ests; but to the commerce of the country against injustice, and to proclaim this generally, the measure must be ruinous. dangerous and degrading doctrine to the He was wholly at a loss to conceive what world, that England was warranted and benefit could arise from it. It had been resolved to employ the worst weapons said on a former evening, by a noble and used by France, for the purpose of overlearned lord, that the object of it was, so coming what it called French iniquity. to distress France, as to force her to come to terms; but how was that object to be effected? We might free neutrals to come into our ports; we might prevent all direct trade with the enemy, by means of the superiority of our navy; but then France, by her military superiority upon the continent, might interdict all commerce with the ports of the continent that was carried on through this country. Neutral trade would then be destroyed, and the commerce of this country deeply and totally injured. It had been said, however, that trade might still be carried on in a manner more easily understood than could with propriety be expressed; was it then to be urged, that the trade of this country was to be carried on by means of smuggling, and was it not easy to conceive that precautions might be adopted in France to prevent that species of trade? Had ministers reflected upon the consequences of this measure to our West India colonies? Instead of giving them relief, it would still further oppress them. Already more sugar came from thence than could be consumed in this country, and to this was now to be added the sugar of the Brazils and of the enemy's colonies. Where was a continental market to be found for all this produce? And supposing there to be a market, still the produce of the enemies colonies and of the Brazils would have the preference, because it

After a short reply from Mr. Sharp, the house divided: For the motion 64; Against it 224; Majority 160.-Strangers were not re-admitted, but we understood, that Mr. Stuart Wortley moved a resolution of thanks to ministers for their conduct, &c. on the Danish expedition, and upon this a division took place: Ayes 216; Noes 61; Majority 155.-Adjourned at 6 o'clock on Tuesday morning.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Tuesday, March 22.

[COMMERCIAL POLICY OF THE ORDERS IN COUNCIL.] The Earl of Lauderdale, in calling the attention of their lordships to this subject, observed, that the important question now for their consideration was, whether that system of mercantile policy under which the commerce and prosperity of this country had so greatly increased until the issuing of the Orders in Council, should at once be done away, and the whole commerce of the country put to hazard, for the sake of the novel and dangerous principles contained in the Orders in Council. Upon this measure he was compelled to argue without the species of information which ought to have been before the house, namely, that which could be given by the merchants and manufacturers whose interests would be

would be known by those who imported | he could not but consider this measure as it here that none of it could be consumed ruinous and destructive, and tending more in this country, and thus our own planters immediately to increase a clamour for would remain without relief. Had they peace, and thereby to embarrass the counreflected upon the consequences to the try, by means of the great injury which it American trade, and through that to the inflicted upon our manufactures. His trade of this country? Taking the ex- lordship concluded by moving the followports of America at 15,000,000l. he be- ing Resolutions::-"That the unprecelieved about two-thirds of that amount dented commercial warfare in which his were sent to the continent of Europe; if majesty had been advised to involve this this trade was destroyed, would it not by country, by his late Orders in Council, the decrease of price greatly reduce the must be peculiarly injurious to a nation value of the remaining third exported to whose extended concerns give her an inthis country? He believed, that upon cal- terest, more or less direct, in all the merculation, the remaining third could not cantile transactions of the world. That it then be estimated at more than 2,000,000l. appears to this house, that the system in value; and how in this case were the adopted by the said Orders, threatens the American traders to pay the debts due to immediate extinction of maritime comthe merchants and manufacturers of this merce; for while, on the one hand, the country? If it was conceived, however, navy of G. Britain will, in a great meathat France would relax her decrees, and sure, prevent all communication with the a trade be carried on to her ports under continent of Europe, except through this these restrictions, still the government of country and her allies; it cannot be that country, by means of countervailing doubted that the armies of France, and of duties, might throw back as great a bur- the nations under her subjection, may, on den upon us as our duties would be to the other hand, easily put an end to any them. Suppose we imposed a duty-of such direct intercourse between this counten per cent. on articles carried circuitous- try and the continent.-That such annily through this country to France; that hilation of all maritime commerce, whilst country might impose a duty on the com- it must totally exclude the produce and modities sent in return, and might give manufactures of this island from a foreign the produce of that duty as a compensa- market, will leave to our enemies those tion to those who paid the additional duty means of trading in the produce and manuimposed by us, and thus the object of the factures of the continent, which the landOrders, that of distressing France, would carriage and internal navigation of such be defeated. Could it, however, seriously extensive countries must afford; means be believed, that enhancing the price of which their industry, urged by the necessugar, ginger, pepper, and other articles, sity of the case, must rapidly improve and would have that important effect which was extend. That it appears to this house, imputed to this measure? What, besides, that there is just ground to apprehend that was the comparative disadvantage with the exclusion of colonial produce from the which we entered into this new and un- continent of Europe, if it could be effected, precedented species of warfare; France would close many of those channels of incould support her population by her own dustry, by the means of which the comproduce; it was calculated by Mr. Hume, merce and manufactures of this country that in his time, sixteen persons out of have attained an unparalleled degree of twenty in France, drew their support from prosperity: that it would divert the labour agriculture and commerce; whilst in this of the continent from the production of country, fifteen out of twenty of the popu- those articles for which maritime comlation drew their support from commerce merce has hitherto afforded a vent, to the and manufactures, and the produce of the culture of those productions for the supply country was not sufficient to support the of which the extinction of such commerce population; this was proved by the state- must create an imperious demand.-That ment, that during the years 1804, 5, 6, we it appears to this house, that the manufacimported 517,000 quarters of wheat, oats tures of this country must sustain irreparaat the rate of 180,000 quarters, and barley ble injury, from forcibly diverting the la50,000. How seriously then, would such bour of America, by the annihilation of a mode of warfare injure this country, maritime commerce, to the manufacture whilst it would comparatively do little in- of those articles which habit has made jury to France! In every point of view, necessary to that country, and the furnish......

had previously been undersold in the fo

duce, conveyed by neutrals, and the certificates of origin were devised to prevent British colonial produce from finding a market. Now, however, under the operation of these Orders, the whole of the colonial produce being brought to this country, would be so mixed that it would be impossible for the enemy to distinguish the one from the other, and our own colonial produce would no longer be undersøld. The same argument applied to the commodities from the East Indies. It had been said by a noble friend of his on the preceding evening, that it could not be supposed that the want of coffee could have any effect in France. His noble friend, he believed, did not like coffee, and therefore he might not care for the loss of it; but was it to be imagined that the popula tion of a whole continent would suddenly change the habits of their lives at the bidding of the ruler of France? Would Buonaparte himself, would his tributary kings, would his tributary princes, would his generals, would his army, consent all at once to give up their coffee and their sugar? Would they agree to give up the constant habits of their lives? It was not in human nature. With respect to the American trade, he believed it would be found that half their exports came to this country, and about a fourth or third to the enemy's colonies; the effect, therefore, stated by the noble lord, could not be produced upon that trade; as, supposing the decree of the enemy to be most rigorously enforced, the Americans could not be prevented by their enforcement from trading with this country, or the enemy's colonies. The noble earl went through the Resolutions, and contended that they did not apply to the Orders in Council, which instead of injuring the trade of the country, tended materially to benefit it, by removing those injurious effects which had been produced by the enforcement of the enemy's decrees.

ing of which has long given sustenance to thousands of our industrious countrymen.-reign markets by the foreign colonial proThat this system, which his majesty's Orders in Council are intended to enforce, whether regarded as a source of revenue or as a measure of hostility, appears to this house equally nugatory and absurd: as a source of revenue, its success must depend on the co-operation of the neutral whose property is to be taxed, on the inclination of our allies to sacrifice their interest to our views, and on the consent of our enemies to contribute to the increase of those resources which it is their known object to annihilate as a measure of warfare, it is destructive of our resources, injurious to the interests of our friends, but wholly ineffectual against our enemies, whom it enables, by payment of the projected duties, to purchase a complete exemption from the distress which it professes to bring upon them.-That it appears to this house, that his majesty's ministers, by advising his majesty to adopt such a mode of warfare, are co-operating with the government of France to deprive the inhabitants of the respective countries of the comforts to which they are habituated, and even of the means by which they have existed and that in so doing, they are concurring in an experiment which puts the great contest now at issue betwixt the two nations, on a ground highly disadvantageous to the British empire; for it is obvious, that this system of deprivation must bear much harder on the people of this country, where property has been uniformly respected, and the profits of industry held sacred, than on the people of France, who have been habituated to the extremes of distress, during the convulsions which the revolution has created." Earl Bathurst denied that the commerce of the country had, previous to the issuing of the Orders in Council, shown that increasing prosperity stated by the noble lord; on the contrary, the exports, which in 1806 amounted to 27,000,000l. decreased in 1807 to 25,000,000l. The exports of West India and East India produce had also declined in proportion. The Orders in Council had become, therefore, necessary for the maintenance of our own commerce, and their beneficial effects were proved by the increase in our exports from the 5th of Dec. up to the last week: an increase had taken place in the export of sugar, of woollen, cotton, and linen. Our West India colonies, instead of being injured, would be benefited. Their produce

Lord King commented on the apparent inconsistency of endeavouring to make the Orders in Council at once a measure of a belligerent nature and of commercial policy.

Lord Holland entirely concurred with the noble lord as to the inconsistency he had stated; but it was not the only one : when the measure was censured as unproductive, they were told that it was not a measure of revenue; and yet when the

suffering manufacturer, when the injured | trader, petitioned for relief against its ruinous operation, they were driven from the bar, and told that it was a matter of revenue. With respect to its producing any sensation in France, he could hardly believe that ministers themselves were serious in that expectation.

Orders in Council previous to the embargo; but, as he had stated on a former occasion, it was by no means improbable, that the embargo might have been resorted to in America, from a conviction that such measures of retaliation as the present would naturally be adopted by this country, in consequence of the French decrees. The noble baron, however, might have secret advices, that the Americans had been previously informed of the intention to issue the Orders in Council, and had acted accordingly; but until that was distinctly asserted, he must still believe, that the fact was as he himself had stated it. He allowed, that it was unwise to enter upon a commercial war; but the question here was, whether you were to submit to the but Sar-embarrassments thrown by the enemy in the way of your commerce, without adopting some measure of retaliation? If we were not to engage in a commercial war of this kind at all, then the Order of the 7th of Jan. was a most unwise one. His lordship also stated, with regard to the American embargo, that the preamble of the Order of the 7th of Jan. announced further

which had actually happened; and this might have corroborated the idea, that such a measure as the late Orders in Council would be adopted by this country, and by that means have contributed to the laying on of the embargo.

Lord Grenville said, he did not rise to prolong the debate. Upon a former occasion he had taken an opportunity of stating fully and distinctly his sentiments upon the commercial policy of these Orders. His object in rising, was, to resist altogether the idea of any similarity between these Orders and that of the 7th of Jan. He contended that they were not only not alike, but essentially different. Sardinia, it was true, had been excepted; dinia was not the only exception. At that time Denmark (would to God she were so now!) was neutral, and engrossed by much the greater portion of the neutral trade of Europe. The able and statesman-like note of his noble friend (earl Grey) to the Danish minister, was a sufficient commentary upon the nature and object of that Order: but this mode of justifying by recriminat-retaliation, in case that should take place ing, involved the noble secretary in a strange dilemma. That Order was either right or wrong; if wrong, why attempt to justify the present Orders by proving their similitude to that? and if right, why make it the object of such extraordinary censure, that even his majesty in council was made, in the preamble to those Orders, to censure that act as injudicious and ineffectual, to which he had been advised to give his royal sanction? With respect to their effect on America, he should not now say any thing the event would be shortly known, and he trusted that when it should be known, the result would not verify his apprehensions. As far as he could judge from such private advices as persons were pleased to communicate to him, he was, he confessed, inclined to believe that the intelligence of his majesty's ministers' intentions, with respect to the measure of the Orders in Council, was known in America several days before the measure of the embargo had been resolved on: and if so, it was not unreasonable to conclude, that that intelligence must have had no inconsiderable influence in producing the adoption of

that measure.

Lord Hawkesbury said, that ministers had received no intelligence, from any authentic source, that could lead them to believe, that the Americans knew any thing of the

Lord Grenville said, that he had no secret advices, nor did he know what the noble secretary meant by the words 'secret advices.' His information was as public as the public papers of the country' could make it. A commercial house here had sent information to America of the intention to issue these Orders, and of their nature and tendency, and that information was perfectly accurate. Their correspondents in America acknowledged the receipt of the intelligence on the 16th of Dec. being six days before the embargo was laid on. He desired the noble secretary not to take this statement upon his authority, but to call the merchant to the bar, who would confirm it on oath.

The house then divided on the question of agreeing to the first Resolution: Contents, 21; Non Contents, 56; Majority, 35.