place in their stead others appointed by | concerning the Middlesex Election, and to the ministers ? May they not determine, that their resolutions are superior to the law of the land? May they not arrogate to themselves executive as well as legislative authority, and arbitrarily punish persons who have not been legally convicted of any offence against the known law of the land? May they not imprison magistrates for having faithfully discharged their duty? May they not deprive corporate bodies of their chartered rights, without even a pretence of their having committed any thing by which those rights were forfeited? May they not receive a large portion of the civil-list revenue in pensions, and then grant an addition without calling for an account? May they not enact laws to make every branch of the royal family abject slaves to the crown? May they not constantly vote war establishments in time of profound peace; and by mean of enormous consequential taxes, totally ruin the declining manufactures of their country? May they not (with as much propriety as the triennial parliament, in 1716, voted itself septennial) vote themselves perpe tual? All these mischiefs may be brought to pass in a corrupt septennial parliament, to the subversion of this once free constitution. 1 shall say no more at present in support of my motion; but having made it, will attend to any arguments which shall be urged against it. I therefore move you, Sir, "That leave be given to bring in a Bill for shortening the Duration of Parliaments." Mr. Alderman James Townshend being absent, Mr. Oliver seconded the motion. After a short debate, the House divided. The Yeas went forth. bring in a Bill for more effectually securing the rights of the electors of Great Bri tain. He said, he would not recapitulate the arguments which he had made use of the year before, as, no doubt, the impres sion of that important subject was still in the minds of many members in that House; that he flattered himself he had this year some glimmering hopes of carrying his question; that the House was not now in that heat and ferment which it formerly was; that truth had now a chance of prevailing; that the House was now in cool deliberation, and no doubt this question, by being calmly considered, might meet with friends, who, in times more heated than the present, were of another opinion: that this was not a ministerial question, it was a question of the people at large; this was not a question meant to stagger and overthrow administration, such a question was the farthest from his thoughts; that he himself would wish to grant the ministry a long lease of their possessions, if this great object might prevail. He then recapitu lated the right of electors to delegate their power to persons of a legal description; that, if choice was made properly, it was impossible to choose a man contrary to such description; that the exceeding such description was an injury of the highest kind to the public; that there were cer tain truths, which, though not described, were yet felt. He said, the people in this country were induced and brought, by the late decisions in that House concerning the Middlesex election, to feel differently from their representatives; that the blood of the people did not trickle in their veins in the same manner as it did in the veins of those whom they had chosen; that the gain of that House, was not their gain; the honour of that House, was not their honour. To this unfortunate situation the House was brought, and he hoped that, by acquiescing in his intended motion, it would not be too late to reconcile matters, so that the people of England and their re presentatives might not be divided against each other. He therefore moved, "That leave be given to bring in a Bill for more effectually securing the rights of the electors of Great Britain, with respect to the eligibility of persons to serve in parlia ment." Mr. Dowdeswell seconded the motion, and used many of the arguments he had formerly done in support of the motion. Lord North rose, and after observing the fair and candid manner in which this question was both moved and seconded, said, the mover of it had declared it was not made to stagger or hurt administration, and that he did not believe it was a quesbetion of a minister, but it was an important question to that House; he said, if they should lose the incapacity, they at the same time would lose the power of expulsion; that expulsion would be needless without incapacity following; that the question was never contested but twice, er and the House had in both instances got the better; that it had never yet been carried, and he hoped to God it never would; that this parliament in the decision had claimed nothing more than its ancestors; that what they had done was highly necessary for carrying on the public business and doing their duty to their constituents; that as to himself, he did not care whether such a question was likely to stagger him in his situation or not, that he should do his duty and give that free opinion upon this question which was consistent with reason and propriety; that as long as he had the honour of a seat in that House, he should give his negative to the question; that his constituents would soon have it in their power to form an opinion suitably to their judgment; that he had yet no reason to think that the major part of the constituents disapproved of what had been done, and he hoped that those whom they might hereafter chuse would prove as great assertors of the privileges of that House, and liberties of the people, as their predecessors. Mr. Serjeant Glynn used much the same kind of arguments as he did last year, condemning the precedents on which the late decision had chiefly rested. He spoke but little, and made an apology that if his mind had led him to trouble the House any longer, his infirmities would not permit him. agree Mr. Howard rose and said, for his part he should wish to carry his opinion, and with that able lawyer, (sir Fletcher Norton) who had formerly declared," that the Resolution of a House of Commons he valued no more than that of a set of drunken porters" that either that great lawyer must be very wrong in his opinion, or the House very erroneous in their decision; he should therefore now, he sup posed, be in that same minority which he had frequently been upon this occasion. Mr. Edmund Burke spoke very ably in support of the question. Tellers. {Sir Edward Astley :} Doctor Burrell So it passed in the negative. -} 147 206 Mr. Charles For rose and said: Mr. Speaker; the share I have hitherto taken in the matter of libels that has lately occupied the attention of this House, calls upon me at present to take notice of a fresh libel of, if possible, a yet more mischievous and detestable nature, than that for which you have already punished one printer. Sir, the paper I allude to is one that I have in my hand; it is a letter in the Public Advertiser, and the Morning Chronicle of this morning, signed "A South Briton."* Sir, I esteem * The following is a Copy of the said Letter: nounced in holy writ; Cursed is he that curses "Sir; the following curses are by God defather or mother; cursed is he that removeth his neighbour's land-mark; cursed are the unmerciful, covetous persons and extortiouers. under that curse, who by force drives his father Now, as to the first, surely that man must lie from his possession, and hires people with his father's money to murder him. As to the second curse, if it is a damnable sin to remove bit of ground, how great, how tremendously a neighbour's land-mark to defraud him of a great must that man's curse be, who, although he lets the land-mark stand, yet by force defrauds him of his whole ground and property! must certainly be an unmerciful, covetous, exAnd that man who is guilty of the above tortionable person. This day 84 years, just at lawful ministers pronouncing in almost every the very time the curses of God were by bis, church in England, Scotland and Ireland, an it one of the highest and most atrocious "That the said Letter is a false, scan. dalous, and traitorous libel upon the consti tution of this country, and tending to alienate the affections of his Majesty's subjects from his Majesty and his royal fa mily." Mr. Thomas Townshend: Mr. Speaker; I do not rise to op pose this motion absolutely, though I think I have an observation to make on it that is worth the attention of the House: it is the amazing stupidity of the performance that has now been read: there is neither wit, sense, spirit, nor understanding in it. I think, Sir, it is too contemptible for this notice. But, Sir, now I am upon my legs, I cannot avoid making a few remarks upon poverty, distress, and slavery: a standing army of great placemen, a standing army of excisemen, permit-men, custom-house officers, with the other innumerable company of little placemen, a standing army of devouring locusts, called pensioners, and a standing army of soldiers; by all which means our liberties are become barely nominal, and our paper property of every sort whenever the pleases can be wiped out with a sponge. herald was proclaiming two undutiful children to give us bits of paper; so that the major part k- and q- of England, &c. But peace to of our remaining wealth is now in their hands; their manes they, in a short time afterwards, by which means they keep up the following were obliged to appear where rebellion, per-standing armies to keep the subject in awe, jury, fraud, cunning and deceit would stand in no good stead. But let us see and consider the advantages the subjects gained by that glorious day's work: before that period the subjects were not incumbered with so much as one penny national debt; and the whole of all their taxes united together scarcely amounted to threepence in the pound. Now take all our taxes of every sort united, they amount to about 15s. in the pound, three parts of our whole property (the undoubted cause of provisions being dear) and as the K- goes on, the remaining fourth must soon follow; and suppose the national debt to be 140 millions, which funded and unfunded I believe will amount to that sum, then for every single day since the R- we have been blessed with an accumulating debt, amounting to upwards of 4,562l. 19s. 84d. per day; a blessing on us and our posterity for ever, so sure as the R- was a blessing, if otherwise a curse and burthen on us and our latest posterity; and all the aforesaid millions were expended to make the poor and distressed states of Holland become rich, high and mighty, the poor electorate of Hanover rich and wealthy, and the subjects of Great Britain and Ireland in poverty, distress and slavery; and since the aforesaid period our governors have coaxed us to part with the major part of our money they did not take by force, and in the room thereof "If we consider religion, the church of England flourished before that period; but since that time Popery and fanaticism have encreased, especially of late years, to such a degree, that, without the spirit of prophecy, we may foretel that in a few years the church of England will be extinct, unless God in his great mercy preserves us. our governors "If we look into morality, k-James was not a g- Mr. Charles Fox: Sir; I cannot subscribe to the propriety of coupling Dr. Johnson and Dr. Shebbeare together. Sir, I should be very much against persecuting a man of great literary abilities, for any opinions which he may happen to drop in works not professedly political. I know not the passages which the right hon. gentleman alludes to, but I must make an eternal distinction between the cases which he represents as the same. The peculiar opinions of men of great literary abilities, who have accidentally dropped them, are not what I think ought to meet with persecution. It would be very far from encouraging literature, which is ever best encouraged in a free government. Lord North: the hon. gentleman being so assiduous to bring this poor, despicable South Briton to punishment, after permitting so many similar, and more pernicious ones, to walk at large. Sir, I well know, that from the conviction and punishment of Dr. Shebbeare to the present moment, no papers of this sort have been taken notice of. But, Sir, the very contrary has been the case: the revilers of the Revolution, and of the principles of the Revolution, have been applauded, revered, and even pensioned; and to such a conduct it is owing, perhaps, that we have now that despicable libel on the table. Dr. Shebbeare and Dr. Johnson have been pensioned, but this wretched South Briton is to be prosecuted! Sir, all three write with the same tendency, with the same aim, with the same spirit: they all have vilified the Revolution, and have libelled the principles which effected it. Dr. Shebbeare was imprisoned and pilloried by the King's-bench: and yet administration has pensioned him. Dr. Johnson wrote a pamphlet, in which he, too, advanced notions which deserved punishment. Dr. Johnson was pensioned by administration. Dr. Johnson published a second pamphlet of the same stamp with the first. Administration, it is said, (I know not with what truth) had his pension doubled. But now comes a miserable scribbler, who has advanced nothing beyond the spirit of the others, and he is to be punished for what they were pensioned! He deserves it, I admit, and I shall not vote against it; but I wish to see more consistency in some men's actions. Sir, I must go further, and say, that it is not only in the case of these two worthy doctors, but the same thing has branched through various other matters, and that the descendants of those men who brought the Revolution to bear, are not the men who meet with honour at present. Nay, the revilers of those ancestors meet with countenance and protection. I know not if any descendants of lord Russell are in the House (looking about him)-yes, there are some near me, who must admit the truth of what I say. A drop of the blood of Sidney is in my veins: I think it no dishonour; but I think while so much countenance, and even reward, is given to the greatest enemy of the Revolution, and Revolution principles, that it is not being very consistent to fix upon such wretched prey, as the writer of the letter now read. [VOL. XVII. ] I The right hon. gentleman has cast a fling upon administration upon account of some pensions given by the crown. am not answerable for measures in which I had no concern; nor is it a matter on which I should speak here. It would be improper. But, Sir, the right hon. gen tleman insinuates very unjustly that administration countenanced reflections on the memory of lord Russell and Algernon Sydney; this is far from being the case. I never saw the work at which he hints (sir John Dalrymple's) till it was published: if the hon. member bought the book, he encouraged the work as much as I did; administration had nothing to do in the case. But, Sir, I must observe, that the reflection thrown on the author is not well founded; I know from the information of a noble lord who resided some time at Paris, and who took copies of the same papers, that sir John Dalrymple published no paper as authentic that he did not actually see and know to be such: as to the truth or falsehood of the papers, it is quite another matter, they may be false-the French minister may have written untruths to his court, but of that the author was not the judge. However, as I said before, Sir, administration could in no respect be to blame in any circumstances relative to that publication. The motion was carried. After which it was ordered, on the motion of Mr. Fox, "That Mr. Attorney General do forthwith prosecute the author, printers, and publishers, of the said false, scandalous, and traitorous libel." [3 Y] Debate in the Commons on the Navy | any ship at a week's notice; that, after Estimates.] Feb. 21. The House went into a Committee of Supply. Mr. Buller moved, "That 444,1881. 4s. 3d. be granted to his Majesty, for the ordinary of the navy, including half pay to sea and marine officers, for the year 1774." He prefaced his motion with stating the particulars of what had occasioned this extraordinary demand; some of which were bearing 1688 more seamen than were voted; being obliged to hire watchmen to do the duty the marines had formerly done; several very great repairs to the navy and yards, &c.; that the 41. per month per man was found not sufficient, by reason that biscuit, beef, pork, and beer, were considerably dearer than at the time that price was settled, &c. Mr. Dowdeswell recapitulated the whole of Mr. Buller's reasons for this demand, and answered them all. He was very sorry to see the House so inattentive to business of this importance; that he was much afraid this would be a permanent establishment; instead of our expences decreasing, they were every year more and more; that no one saving had been made but discharging a few cutters; that it would be much more methodical for the gentlemen in the navy department, to make their estimates something near the mark, and not be bringing in after ones, which were always disagreeable; that the accounts appeared to him to be very high, and he should be glad to have a committee appointed to inspect into the navy accounts, and to report what savings might be made, and whether the present demands were necessary. Captain Phipps said, that in his provincial capacity it became him to say something on this matter. He said, in 1771, when the alarm of Falkland's Island was, instead of having a navy fit to curb our enemies' insolence, he was sorry to say we had no navy at all; that what was still worse, we had then no timber in our dock yards, and it was said, that we never should be able to get a stock again; that in the hurry of last war, we were obliged to contract for ships to be built in the merchants' yards; they were to last three years, and so well did the merchants mind their contract, that many of these ships sunk at the expiration of three years and four months; that we should have launched this year twelve ships of the line, and twenty frigates; that our navy was now on so respectable a footing that we could dispatch this year, we should have no occasion to employ the merchants' yards, and consequently our expences would be lessened. He spoke greatly in praise of the gentlemen who compose the Admiralty and Navy boards, and said, that a more able person than the first lord of the Admiralty never presided at any board; and, as for the surveyor of the navy, he was the most diligent as well as most conversant man in his office that ever was known; that our expences might be compared to erecting a fence round an estate, which, when once erected, might be kept in repair for a trifle; but as to the discharging of the cutters, it was of the utmost consequence, for it was one of the finest engines a first lord of the Admiralty could have in his hands, as he had such an opportunity of appointing lieute nants to those lucrative and tempting employments. Mr. Thomas Townshend said, he was ashamed to hear any person say, that in 1771, we had no navy; that he was much averse to disbelieve the hon. gentleman; but he remembered in 1771 we were told our navy was in as flourishing a state as the hon. gentleman represented it to be now; that he had always observed there was some excuse for these enormous demands; that he might be suffered to call it by that name, as the hon. gentleman who moved had done the same. He was very severe on administration: he said, in however high a light they might look on the gen tlemen that filled the offices of state now, they could not be compared to the administration of Mr. Pelham; that the army was never better governed than by the late duke of Cumberland, nor the navy better than by lord Anson. He spoke much in favour of sir Charles Saunders, and said he was the first person that was always called out on any emergency, and the last person thought of when any honours were to be bestowed. Mr. Edmund Burke made a long and masterly speech; said, he heard the hon. gentleman (Mr. Phipps) speak in a provincial capacity; he should like to hear some gentlemen speak in an official capacity; but, by the great encomiums the hon. gentleman had paid the first lord of the Admiralty, he imagined it would not be long before he spoke in an official capacity. He said, he was sorry to find, that neither the noble lord, nor any of the treasury bench, could give one reason for this enormous expence, other than that |