But, notwithstanding what I have said,

the manner in which this business has been you must not imagine that I am a friend

conducted by the directors, and the readiness with which the plan is given up, make me suspect that no serious intention was ever entertained of doing any thing decisive in the affair, that this Bill was meant only as a tub to the whale, as something to amuse parliament, and divert it in the end from taking any part of the management of East India concerns from the direction. It was hoped, that tired with the discussion of such a strange Bill, we should at last resign the matter into the hands of the two kings, not of Brentford, but of Leadenhall. Why else was the consideration of so important a subject put off to the end of the session, when few gentlemen attend? A matter of such consequence should have been brought before us when we were fresh and active, and not now when we are jaded and fatigued with the toils of a winter campaign.

Mr. Pulteney:

Sir; I am very far from being of opinion, that the nomination of the judges should be left to the crown, in preference to the directors of the East India Company; and my reason for this opinion is, that the crown has, in several instances, made a shameful use of this power. The crown nominates the judges in most of the colonies, and there are the heaviest complaints against its conduct in that particular. Nor are these complaints without just grounds. I know them to be well founded; many gentlemen in this House know them to be well founded, and, I believe, no man will rise up, and attempt a justification. With so many recent and notorious instances of the crown's misconduct in so essential a point, in a point, indeed, the most essential of all others, as it affects the administration of justice; with such instances, I say, before my eyes, shall I vote for enlarging that authority, which I see is abused? Were I so complaisant, I should very little deserve the thanks of my constituents. What advantage, I beseech you, will be derived from lodging the nomination in the crown, that you do not enjoy upon the present plan? By this Bill, the approbation of the chancellor, and the three chief justices, must be procured, and they will certainly be less awed into an approbation of improper persons by the direction than by the crown. We have therefore, upon the whole, a better chance of seeing able and upright men chosen by the Company than by the sovereign.

to this Bill. No, Sir, I see it pregnant with too many dangers, to give it my concurrence. In the first place it establishes no jury; all proceedings are, as, in the court of Chancery, to be by bill and answer. What, Sir, are the lives of Englishmen to be taken away but by the English laws? Is it absolutely impossible to establish the fair and equitable mode of trying men by jury in Bengal? I have never heard any other argument against this institution but this, that there is not in Calcutta a sufficient number of British subjects to supply the rotation of juries. Now, Sir, I am informed by those who know the state of that place, that there are in it 300 British householders, who mean to make it their constant abode. Is not this number sufficient for the present? And will not the establishment of a proper system of laws encrease them? I think I need not be afraid of being found a false prophet, if I answer in the affirmative.

In the next place, this Bill fixes the number of judges at four. At present they are nine, besides the mayor or chief justice. Will you, without any enquiry, reduce them from ten to four? If I under stand the Bill right, it is calculated to encrease rather than to diminish the causes that come before them. At present, the jurisdiction of the court extends not be yond the ditch of Calcutta; by this new regulation, it will extend not only to all places that now are, but that ever will be, under the dominion of the Company in the Bengal provinces. Ought not this consideration to have led the directors to augment, not to reduce the number of their judges? This is certainly the natural order and progress of things. As business multiplies, we multiply our hands in pro portion; but the directors have found out a new way of governing. The question is, whether we shall adopt it in this place.

An hon. baronet tells us, that if the present mayor's court was such an engine of oppression in the hands of the Company, there could not have been so many ap peals from its decisions; nor could it have decided so many causes against the Com pany's interest. If the hon. baronet means to speak of the mayor's court, as it stood before the last charter was granted, he is right. It frequently gave sentence against the Company, and this inflexibility was the very reason that application was made to parliament for the power of appeal

make

to the governor and council, and for the | tors acting under a statute did not stand in power of making and unmaking the alder- the same predicament; that therefore they men. Ever since that period no absolute might make a bad choice with impunity; confidence was to be placed in the mayor's that sir G. Colebroke was mistaken in ascourt. Yet still the court of appeal has serting that, as matters stood, the Company been the chief object of complaint, and enjoyed the exercise of the sword and with justice; for I find that there is hardly other marks of sovereign power; that the Alan instance of application to the King and framers of their charter had been very the council from its determinations, where the cautious in wording it; that they had preCompany has not been cast. Can a served the rights of the crown inviolate; stronger proof than this be produced of and granted them only a delegated authoits iniquitous and arbitrary proceedings? rity to act under it in a judicial and miliBut my capital objection against this tary character: that this was so true, that Bill is, that it does not in the least remedy as soon as an officer with his Majesty's the tyranny of the double government now commission appeared, as such, in India, subsisting in Bengal. The new court of all their military power ceased; and, that justice is only to take cognizance of suits every military power was, during his stay, between British subjects, and between to be derived from him; that, as the Atsuch of the natives as chuse to apply to torney General had truly replied, one of its wisdom: the British subject can have the great objections to the recruiting Bill no remedy in this place against the black brought into the House last session, was inhabitants, but must have recourse to the the very objection made to this Bill, that reed nabob's courts. Now, it is very certain, it took away the King's constitutional that most transactions of the Company's prerogative, the nomination of the officers. servants pass in the country with natives, Band in places under the jurisdiction of the nabob's courts. It is equally certain, that the nabob is but the mere creature of the Company, and will act as the governor and council please. How easy, then, is it for them, by means of this engine, to oppress sh every man that falls under their displeasure! They have but to send their mandate to the nabob, and he crushes the obnoxious person beyond the possibility of redress. Nor is this a matter of mere speculation. The governor and council have actually adopted this mode of bringing ruin upon those whom they disliked. What has been may be again, and it is our business to embrace every possible plan of

prop

ат

t presen teads

: br

It en

I ever

edne

Lord North said, that he could not agree with the Attorney General on the one side, nor with Mr. Sulivan on the other; that indeed the nomination of the judges ought to be, and must be in the King; but that, though they could not agree about this clause, though this clause should be entirely rejected, yet there were many other clauses, which ought to pass, and he therefore wished the chair should not be left.

Mr. Dempster said, that though not satisfied with the Bill in question, he had consented to have it brought in, because he had learnt from the best authority that the minister had declared he did not wish to see the ministry nominate so much as

ly the prevention. The despotism of this double a writer to the Company; that, as he

government has been always the greatest
grievance under which Bengal laboured.
Shall we by a new charter give it our
final sanction and approbation? This
would be only riveting the chains of the
unhappy sufferers, and rescuing them from
the jaws of Scylla, in order to throw them
into those of Charybdis.

of

Governor Johnstone said, that if the Company nominated the judges, the natives of Bengal would have no confidence in their integrity, so bad was their opinion every thing that proceeded from that Source; that, though the crown had abused any particular power, that was no argument for its total abolition; that the crown was liable to error, but that its advisers might and ought to be punished; that the direc

found he had receded from his promise, he was against the Bill; that the crown was already too powerful; that it had the nomination of too many officers, and that he was afraid that circumstance had frequently too much influence on the House; that he would not throw more weight into a scale that was already too heavy; that thus it would proceed from less to more, till it swallowed up all Bengal; that the East India Company was certainly an empire within an empire; that it raised and paid large armies; that it held courts martial and courts of justice; that it had

Mutiny Act, made peace and war, and exercised every other act of sovereign authority; that therefore no objection could be made to the Company's nominating the

live

for several years past, to supply the de mands of that foreign market-as it is hoped that this measure will be formed into a permanent law. It is meant by the provisions in the Bill formed for the carrying it into execution-that its operations may go on, as the state of things does actually and really require, not as the interests of designing men may wish and will them to go; that this commercial circulation of subsistence may flow through pools whose gates are to open and shut as the state of the droughts, and floods, and tides may require, not to consist of sluicedoors which are to be locked up and opened by the partial hands and will of men.

Sir T. Clavering seconded all the motions relative to wheat, and moved those relative to rye; which were seconded by sir Edward Blackett.

Lord North said, that though a temporary Bill might be at present necessary, yet he was very glad to find we were likely to come to an end of it; and did hope, that the matter might now be put upon some permanent footing, as the only way to have the people regularly supplied, by giving a rational encouragement to the growth of corn, and proper foundation for the merchant to know how to export and import; and hoped the two Bills might go hand in hand, and one take effect when the other expired.

sailors, collectors of revenue, &c. &c. and also the prodigious number of people who upon the interests of the funds; also the great increase of the capital, the manufacturing and sea-port towns; that the surplus which we used to produce, was about one 36th part of the whole growth; and that any one might consider, whether the number of people he had mentioned were not more than one 36th of the whole people; and that therefore the real fact was, we had no longer a surplus. The consequence that he drew was, that if we really meant to have the country well supplied, we must do every thing to encouerage the growth, and not discourage the farmer. He spoke much of the nature of the prices of things, and shewed, that though the prices of every thing were nominally risen, yet the price of corn was less so than any other article. He then shewed, from the nature of the market of great towns, that storing of corn must not be discouraged, nor the middle man; for if they were, great towns could never be regularly supplied, but must be in perpetual danger of famine. He concluded with saying, that though the principal end and intention of the resolutions he meant to move were for a permanent Bill, yet such were the present circumstances of the country, that an immediate supply, if it could be got, was absolutely necessary. He therefore moved a temporary Bill for immediately opening the ports for the im- Sir George Savile said, he had always portation of bread corn; and next moved considered these temporary Bills as a false the resolutions as the foundation of a per- relief, like dram-drinking; and though we manent Bill to take effect when the tem- had always promised to leave it off, yet porary one expired; and said, that the we could never come to the last dram; that end proposed by this Bill is that of creating he had always preached against this destruc an influx of bread corn for home consumptive custom, and did hope he should now tion, in case of internal scarcity; and an see an end of it; and upon that consideraid to our foreign trade in case of our ation only, and in consequence of the ennot having a quantity of corn adequate to couragement the noble lord had given, that important and beneficial commerce. that this should be the last, he would agree purpose is conducted under such re- to take up the present cup; that is, the gulations as shall prevent any interference present temporary Bill, coupled with the with the landed interest. In other words, permanent one that was to succeed it. (said he) if I may be permitted to use an He then expatiated largely on the nature allusion to natural operations, it means to of the supply of a country with bread, corn, introduce into our supply an additional and provisions, and the nature of prices; stream, and to fix such a wear at such a and concluded with saying, that there was height as shall always keep the internal no way of supporting a country but by supply equal, and no more than equal, to encouraging the growth, which nothing internal want, yet preserve a constant but a permanent Bill could do. overflow for all the surplus, so as never on one hand to endanger the depression of the landed interest, nor on, the other the loss of our foreign market for corn-by our not being able, as has been the case

dis

Teat

This

Mr. Freeman said, he did not know there was any hoarding of corn in the country; but if there was, this Bill would bring it out, and therefore he was for it.

Sir Joseph Maubey spoke in support of

the Bill, but was for lowering the prices at which the importation and exportation should take place.

as would overstock and depress the market, and finally distress the country. He also went into a general explanation of the grounds on which he approved of this measure.

Mr. Gascoigne said, such reduction might serve the brewer and distiller, but would discourage the farmer, and ruin the April 15. The Resolutions were report country. He then started some difficulties as to ascertaining the prices, and raiseded to the House, and a Bill was ordered to be brought in. several objections to the Act for registering the prices.

May 4. The House went into a com

Mr. Pulteney approved of the perma-mittee on the Bill. In which, nent law, but thought the prices for importation were too low.

Sir C. Wray spoke next, approving of the permanent law, and all the regulations contained in it, but thought the prices taken up too high.

Mr. Stanley urged some difficulties which occurred to him in the execution of the plan.

Mr. Mackworth said, that he approved the plan, and did not at present see any particular objections to the lines on which it was drawn; but thought, if the Bill was brought in and printed, this was as far as it ought to go, and that it should be dispersed in the country, for the consideration of all sorts of people.

Lord Clare said, that the distresses of the poor were become so urgent, as to render at least the attempt at a remedy absolutely necessary; that he and some others had made a minute enquiry into this affair in Essex, and that they found a labourer who had six or seven in family, could not, after paying for lodging and other indispensible articles, afford each more than three farthings a day for com or bread. In such a state of things, was it not, then, absolutely necessary to dis continue the bounty for exportation, and to prohibit exportation altogether, when the price of corn equalled or exceeded 44, instead of 48s. a quarter?

Mr. Edmund Burke said:

all

Mr. E. Burke shewed that this matter had been already two years under consi- Sir; nothing but the ingenuity of deration; that the opinions now proposed the noble lord could have made plausible were unanimously agreed to by the House the doctrine which he has now supported. last year, and that the present time and He has laboured to prove that we ought to circumstances of the country seemed to make provision for the necessities of the be the very proper moment for carrying poor, and recommended charity as the them into execution; that if they could great Christian virtue that is to remove have any effect, this was the proper time their wants. Sir, I am no enemy to the to apply them. He then replied to the poor. On the contrary, I sympathise with several doubts and difficulties which had their distresses. On this occasion I give been raised, in an excellent speech, full of way to the present Bill, not because I ap that knowledge which he possesses of these prove of the measure in itself, but because matters; and explained, with that distinc-I think it prudent to yield to the spirit of tion of which he is master, both the effect of supply and trade; and shewed the united interests of the landed and com. mercial parts of this country; that nothing could be more detrimental than their jealousies of each other; and that nothing could be so advantageous to this country, as their united efforts for their mutual benefit: and, as this measure was animated with that spirit, he approved of it.

Mr. Fuller, though for the Bill, said, he had doubts of that part of it, which permitted the re-exportation, as thinking it might be the occasion of great frauds, &c. Mr. Dowdeswell said, if this re-exportation was not permitted, we should never obtain the effect of a real importation; or if we did, such a quantity might be brought

the times. The people, will have it so, and
it is not for their representatives to say nay.
I cannot, however, help entering my pro
test against the general principles of policy
on which it is supported, because I think
them extremely dangerous. At present
we feel a kind of dearth, and the people
are uneasy. What are we going to do for
their relief? In order to remove a tempo
rary evil, we are going to establish a gene
ral law which will operate when that evil
has ceased. The average price of corn,
as has been frequently proved, has sunk
greatly since the bounty upon exportation
commenced. What, then,
impolitic, than to discontinue a regulation,
of which the utility has thus been ascer
tained by the most unerring of guides, ex

can be more