pair the damage which his unskilfulness has occasioned, offers you a Bill that makes a breach in the constitution. Sir, in former times, a servant of the crown durst not hazard such a measure; and perhaps this is the first instance in which so open an attempt has been made to cover ministerial incapacity, under the ruins of the constitution. rears of the civil list-arrears so honour. ably and usefully contracted,—the five reasons were forgot. The eyes of parlia ment were dazzled, and could no longer see how to make any regulations for securing the permanence and stability of that lucrative bargain which it had made. The Company, without any formed sys. tem, without the aid of precedent, without the light of experience, without chart or compass, was allowed to steer at random through this perilous ocean. What wonder that they lost their course? The wonder would have been, if assisted by no lights, but by those communicated by servants, interested through the fear of past embezzlement, and the prospect of future peculation to mislead, they had not been bewildered and lost. The distress of the Company arises from the improvidence of administration, and the short-sightedness of parliament, in not forming for it a sys tem of government suitable to its form and constitution. Or, am I mistaken, and were the affairs of the Company designedly left in confusion? were the directors left without any effectual control over delinquent servants? Was the collection of the revenues left without any check? Was the tyranny of a double government, like our double cabinet, tole Sir, in the year 1767, administration discovered, that the East India Company were guardians to a very handsome and rich lady in Hindostan. Accordingly, they set parliament in motion: and parliament, (whether from love to her person or fortune is, I believe, no problem) parliament directly became a suitor, and took the lady into its tender, fond, grasping arms, pretending all the while that it meant nothing but what was fair and honourable; that no rape or violence was intended; that its sole aim was to rescue her and her fortune out of the pilfering hands of a set of rapacious stewards, who had let her estate run to waste, and had committed various depredations. To drop the allegory-parliament took the state of the East India Company's trade and revenue under its consideration. And what was the ostensible object of this enquiry? Five reasons were assigned; the maintenance of the public faith, the sup-rated with the view of seeing the concerns port of public credit, the encrease of the Company's trade, the encrease of its revenues and the security of the stockholders. Well, Sir, this grand and salutary plan was entered upon; books upon books, and papers upon papers were brought up and piled upon your table in such numbers, that the copying of the very extracts cost an hon. gentleman behind me 300l. The subject was considered and reconsidered; debate succeeded debate, and resolution succeeded resolution. One and forty times did the House sit upon this business, and more than once till four o'clock in the morning. What Sir, was the result? "Quid dignum tanto feret hic promissor hiatu ?" What did this mountain in labour bring forth? No mouse, I assure you, but a fair round sum of 400,000l. a year to government. In this manner did parliament provide for the maintenance of the public faith, and the support of public credit! In this manner did parliament encrease the Company's trade and revenue, and give security to the stockholders? When the Company came down handsomely, and furnished a reasonable sum to pay off the ar of the Company become an absolute chaos of disorder, and of giving government a handle for seizing the territorial revenue? I know that this was the original scheme of administration, and I violently suspected that it never has been relinquished. Sir, if the ministry have no sinister view, if they do not mean by this unconstitu tional step to extend the influence of the crown, they will now speak out and explicitly declare their intentions. Silence will be justly deemed a confession of guilt; and they will without any injury be considered as the determined enemies of the liberty of their country. God knows that the places and pensions and expectancies furnished by the British establishment, are too powerful for the small remains of pa triotism and public spirit in our island. What, then, will become of us, if Bengal, if the Ganges pour in a new tide of corruption? Should the evil genius of British liberty so ordain it, I fear this House will be so far from removing the corruption of the East, that it will be corrupted by them. I dread more from the infection of that place, than I hope from your virtue. Was it not the sudden plunder of the East that pecte gave the final blow to the freedom of Rome? What reason have we to expect a better fate? I conjure you by every thing that man ought to hold sacred; I conjure you by the spirits of your forefathers who so nobly fought and bled for the cause for which I now plead; I conjure you by what includes every thing, by your country, not to yield to the temptations which the East in the hands of the crown holds out, not to sink into the gulf of corruption, and drag after you your posterity, your country. I obtest heaven and earth, that in all places, and at all times, I have hitherto shoved by the gilded hand of corruption, and endeavoured to stem the torrent which threatens to overwhelm this land; and from such temptations I pray God of his infinite mercy ever to preserve me. Sir, I hope the House is not offended; I only repeat the Lord's prayer, and be seech him not to lead me into temptation, but deliver me from evil. And surely it becomes me to be diffident of my own virtue and self denial, when the very pillars of this House (here the hon. gentleman looked at sir William Meredith) have been shaken, and given way. Upon the whole, Sir, the Bill is dangerous in itself, as being the first step towards a total invasion of the Company's territories in Bengal; and, supposing the mofives good, yet it is dangerous for the example-unconstitutional acts founded on unconstitutional motives, springing from unconstitutional acts founded on constitutional motives. An author who is more spoken of than read, I mean Aristotle, declares that acts of this nature, which are truly what he calls phephismata, have the most pernicious consequences, and accelerate the ruin of every state. I do not, however, deny that you have power to pass this act. Yes, Sir, you have the power; but you have not the right. There a perpetual confusion in gentlemen's ideas from inattention to this material distinction; from which properly considered it will appear that this Bill is contrary to the eternal laws of right and wrong-laws that ought to bind all men, and above all men legislative assemblies. Sir William Meredith. I do not wish to trouble the House, but as I had the honour of being in that committee, I only beg leave to inform the hon. gentleman, that we were appointed to enquire into the affairs of the Company, and not to redress grievances. We are proceeding in the [VOL. XVII.] He one, and the other we never promised. The hon. gentleman has displayed his eloquence and rhetoric with his customary facility; but all he has yet said, can only be considered as the mere invention of a lively and ingenious imagination. compares the two committees to a jack; he says, the secret one is like the flier of a jack, and the other like the weight. I agree with him in the simile, but draw a very different conclusion. Sir, between the ponderous weight at one end, and the quick motion of the flier, the dish is prepared, and rendered fit for digestion. Lord North. I did not intend to have said any thing to the Bill; I am satisfied that it has as genéral an assent as any matter that ever came into this House; but, Sir, as I have been particularly alluded to by an hon. gentleman over the way (Mr. Burke) I shall beg the indulg ence of the House for a few moments. The hon. gentleman has said that government has plundered the East India Company of two million. Sir, the 400,000l. per annum was obtained from them for the service of the public, and not for the emolument of the minister; and since their affairs have turned out in so wretched a manner, I am of opinion that the two million is much better employed in this country than in India, to build walls round their camps, with locks and keys to keep the men from deserting. I think, Sir, it is allowed that parliament have a right over the India Company, and that parliament can do them service; then, Sir, since the one is established, and the other allowed, no objection of any consequence can be made to the Bill; and I confess, when the matter was first proposed to me, I considered it as I do now, an expedient highly justifiable and no less necessary. Mr. Sykes. My name having been mentioned by one of the evidence, I am extremely concerned to find that my honour was attacked. The whole affair of the tax called the matoot, which has been considered as arbitrary and illegal, I will prove was agreeable to the form of government established by lord Clive and the select committee. I do not mean to enter into the particulars at present; but I shall, in the course of the business, wipe away every impression which may have been made against my honour. The question being put, that the Bill do pass; the House divided. The Year went forth. [2X] Then Mr. Impey was heard against the Bill, and called Mr. John Hoole, who, being sworn, acquainted the House, "That the difference of the expence of the civil establishments at Bengal and Madras is, for the last year, upwards of 170,000/. more at Bengal than at Madras; that this difference does not arise so much from the difference of the number in the civil government at each place, as from the extra charges of the civil government at Bengal, such as contingent charges, travelling expences, &c. the salaries at both places being nearly equal; that the military establishment at Bengal is upwards of 650,000l. the nabob's share included, more than it is at Madras; that the batta is 180,000l. more at Bengal than Madras; that the number on the military establishment at Madras are 4,410 Europeans, and 18,339 sepoys; at Bengal 3,890 Europeans, 26,132 sepoys." Mr. Richard Holt, assistant secretary, was called in; and, being sworn, acquainted the House, "That the commission for sending out supervisors has been under consideration these four months; that it originated in a committee of correspondence, which committee, on the 29th of July, were unanimous in their opinion of recommending such a commission to a court of directors; which they did, and several courts of directors were held to consider of this measure: that on the 5th of August, the court of directors agreed to call a general court of proprie tors, which was done, and the opinion of the directors, that a superintending commission should be sent to India, laid before the said court; which measure was agreed to by the court of proprietors by ballot on the 2d of September last, the majority for the commission being sent out being near three to one: that a commission, after having been discussed and considered at several general courts, was agreed to, and the gentlemen chose by the directors to go out as commissioners were approved of by a general court of proprietors by ballot on the 27th of November last, 209 being for the nomination made by the directors, and 188 against it: that the opinion of counsel was taken as to the legality of the present commission, viz. Mr. Sayer, Mr. Wallace, and Mr. Jackson: that this commission is, in some degree, similar to that sent out in 1769: that he thinks savings to a great amount might be made by sending out this commission, if properly executed, and believes it would have been properly executed if the gen tlemen named in the present commission had gone out that savings equal to those expected to be made by this commission going out, might be made by the directors sending out their orders to their servants in India, if those orders were obeyed; but the disobedience of the Company's servants in India made the sending out a commission necessary: that he thinks the present commission has, in some res pects, greater powers than that sent out in 1769, but cannot point out what those powers are: that the former commission gave the power of making alterations in the courts of justice in India, which this commission does not that the powers given at present to the governors and councils in India are very extensive; and, if properly executed, would render this commission unnecessary: that this commission differs from the former in the powers of turning out the Company's servants in India: that the committee of correspondence, on the 29th of July last, came to the following Resolution, That the present state of the Company's affairs in India requires the sending out a commission with extraordinary powers.' "That six of the present commissioners, out of nine at Bengal, could controul the presidency at Bombay: that he was present at the general court, when the chairman and deputy chairman recommended the sending out this commission; and that some hint was thrown out by them that such a measure was countenanced by administration: that by the Company's charter the time is li mited for calling a general court by the proprietors: that a court called by the di Then Mr. Adair, the other counsel against the said Bill, was heard. After which the counsel being directed to withdraw, The Duke of Richmond said: rectors has met in two or three days after calling that on the 9th of this instant December the directors advertised a general court for the purpose of petitioning the House of Commons against this Bill, which court met on the 11th of December." [He was directed to withdraw.] My lords; the evidence delivered Then Rainsforth Tookey, accomptant, was at your bar militates, in every possible called in; and, being sworn, acquainted point of view, against the propriety of the the House, "That the Company's ser- present Bill, and leaves very little room vants in India have exceeded their orders for me to add any thing on the subject. for drawing bills on the Company here, in The ruinous state of the Company's affairs, the sum of 1,063,067l. 1s. 2d. for the year both in England and India, would be only 1771: that the bills were drawn in India melancholy to dwell on. It might, indeed, in 1770, and advice of them received remind us of the different measures which here in July and August 1771: that their have brought them into that state; but orders for drawing were not to exceed that would be little more than a repetition 200,000l. and lord Clive's jaghire, which of facts, and the arguments that were emis 30,000l. per annum: that they were to ployed to enforce them. Give me leave, draw for this money in bills at 2s. 24d. the my lords, however, to trouble you with a rupee, at 365 days sight, without interest: few seasonable remarks on the present that the bills drawn by the Company's Bill, and the pretended reasons on which servants in India, are drawn at one, two, it is founded. Among the many superior and three years after sight; part of each advantages we enjoy over our neighbours, class at 2s. 24d. the rupee, and part at 2s. and indeed I believe the whole world be 3d. the rupee, and to bear 3 per cent. in- side, are the numerous good consequences terest after the first 90 days: that the arising from our high reputation for naCompany have paid to government, on the tional faith: while this remains inviolate, indemnity on tea, near 281,000l., and owe though our internal resources should fail, at present to government for the same we can never be at a loss for money. This 202,000l.: that they have paid and owe to is the grand support of all our trading the buyers of tea sold before March sale companies, the Bank, South Sea, &c. It 1772, 210,000l.: that the loss on the price is our sacred regard to parliamentary enof tea is 300,000l.: that the Company sold gagements that enables us to procure 31,000,000 pounds of tea at upwards of money with greater facility, and upon 100,000l. less profit than they sold more eligible terms than any other nation 21,000,000 pounds of tea that the losses in Europe; not only from our fellow subon tea, and the over-drawings of the Com-jects, but almost all others who have a pany's servants in India, account for the shilling to lend: what then will be the present deficiency in the Company's cash: consequence of the present Bill? Why fothat the Company have paid to govern-reigners, alarmed at such an extraordinary ment, since their agreement with govern- interposition, will endeavour to sell out. ment, 1,800,000. that they at present This will reduce the price of all kinds of owe to government, on that agreement, stock, and the public creditors must be 200,000l., due on the 29th of September ruined. There is one circumstance atlast; and another 200,000l. will become tending this Bill which deserves our most due on the 25th of this instant December: serious consideration: that is, the sup that if the dividend should be reduced, 26 posed countenance, and promised protecdays are to be taken from this last pay-tion from administration, of that measure ment: that the net duties paid to govern- it is intended to rescind. If administrament for the last five years, amount to tion gave any such promise, they deserve 1,109,0657. that the proprietors have re- to be impeached; if they did not, the ceived 918,296/. more than 6 per cent. on chairman and deputy chairman, who have their stock to Midsummer last: that the called down on the innocent proprietary by proprietors the indignation and displeasure of parlia since the agreement with government is ment, certainly deserve to be impeached. 1,972,3421. That the net profits of the I shall conclude my entire disapprobation Company's trade preceding the duana for of the Bill now before us, by observing, years, amounted to 441,620l. which that if it should pass, the rapacity of the was more than sufficient to divide 12 per Company's servants, and all the dreadful whole sum five : cent. upon." consequences which they portend, must our bar? Is it a corporate act of the Comremain unredressed for another year; for, pany? No; it is a petition from 14 progranting what the promoters of the pre-prietors. It will be said, perhaps, that sent measure would pretend, that parliament are in good earnest, and mean really to serve the Company effectually; yet, before their intentions can be brought to maturity, the season for going out will be passed, and, in all probability, the Company irretrievably ruined. This was strongly verified when lord Clive went out last, his lordship being eleven months on his passage. Lord Rochford: the time has been too short for the sum moning of a court: the Bill passed the other House on Friday; and will they pretend to say, that they had not time between that and Wednesday, when it is plain, from the evidence at the bar, that courts have been assembled on a shorter notice? Particularly on account of the very Bill now before us, the proprietors were summoned the 9th and met the 11th instant. For these, and many other rea sons, I am for the third reading of the Bill. The Duke of Richmond: My lords; the noble lord who spoke last has not only denied the charge now made against administration, concerning their approbation of sending out a superintending commission, as far as him My lords; the noble duke's fears relative to the expected operation the preseat Bill may have on our public stocks, however praise-worthy they may be, I believe are very ill-founded on the contrary, I am certain the Dutch in particuJar, who I believe are the principal public creditors, will be much better satisfied with their security on account of the pre-self is concerned; but, both by implica sent interposition, than they would by tion and reasoning, would have us believe that of any company, however respect- that no such promise had or could have able, The noble duke has said, that ad- been given. However powerful his lordministration approved of the measure of ship's reasons may be, or strong his asser« sending out a superintending commission; tions, I cannot by any means assent to but I think I may venture to affirm, that them, as a proof of what might not possithe noble duke is misinformed. For my bly have come within his lordship's know own part, I can answer for myself and the ledge. For, if I am not totally misin rest under that denomination in this formed, the true state of the transaction House; nor am I less satisfied that no was this: the supervision scheme being such promise was made by any part of it in proposed to some in office, it was underthe other House. It is totally improba- stood to be one condition of it, that goble: the very reasons now offered at the vernment should have the appointing of bar must have prevented it: I mean the one of the supervisors; but the directors ruinous state of the Company's affairs. I having either failed in their engagement, remember, indeed, that many propositions or promised more than they were able to were made by the chairman and deputy- perform, administration immediately alchairman, to promote a temporary relief tered their sentiments. If the fact be from their pressing exigencies, such as otherwise, and that the persons who proissuing out bonds to a certain sum, &c. pagate this report have invented it purely but I recollect very well that they were to excuse themselves, I think it highly inrejected. Administration could not, dared cumbent on those more immediately pointnot, grant any such request. The bond-ed at, to set on foot an enquiry, which creditors' securities could not be lessened without a manifest injustice to them; it was therefore the distresses of the Company, and the inability of administration to assist them, that first suggested the necessity of submitting them to parliament, in order that they might be legally and effectually removed. In such a case, then, can it be believed that administration would consent, much less promise their protection to any plan, until parliament had first approved of it? Besides, my Jords, what is this Petition now heard at may exculpate them from that odium which must otherwise be the consequence of so scandalous and daring an abuse of that power with which the constitution hath entrusted them. As to what the noble lord has advanced, relative to the Pe tition at your lordships' bar not being a corporate act of the Company, that cannot deserve the least attention, when it is evident, that they had not sufficient time to act in their corporate capacity; for the Bill was brought into this House on Saturday, and was reported in the public |