Debate in the Commons on the Resolutions to let the Territorial Acquisitions remain in the Possession of the East India Company for a limited time.] April 5. The House having again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the Affairs of the East India Company, Mr. Bacon in the chair, Company. I think, Sir, they ought to be left for ever in the Company; I am fully and clearly of that opinion; if not from right, at least from policy. But, Sir, this depends upon their conduct; if they, in future, govern them no better than they have hitherto done, my opinion will be very different. Nay, I shall then think it advisable, notwithstanding the term mentioned in the motion, to reject their hav ing the possession at the end of two, three, or four years. But it may be said, why six years? The reason of this period being named, Sir, is on account of the charter expiring in 1780; and as this agreement with the Company is to commence in February 1774, both will expire together; by which means, there will be the proper time not only to give the specified notice from the public to the Company of its intentions of receiving, but also, at the same time, settle for a further time the point of the territorial acquisitions. Lord North rose and informed the House, that in answer to the Petition of the East India Company, the King had left the sole determination of the affair to that House. His lordship then proceeded to move the following Resolution: "That it may be for the mutual benefit of the public and the East India Company, that the Territorial Acquisitions and Revenues lately obtained in India, should, under proper restrictions and regulations, remain in the possession of the Company, during a term not exceeding six years, to commence from the expiration of the present agreement between the public and the Company: "That, during the said term, the public should forego all participation in the produce thereof, until the Company shall have repaid such sum of money as shall be advanced by the public for the relief of the Company, and until the bond debt of the Company shall be reduced to 1,500,000l. "And that, from thenceforth, during the remainder of the said term, threefourth parts of the surplus net profits of the Company at home, above the sum of 81. per cent. per annum upon their capital stock, should be paid into the Exchequer, for the use of the public; and the remaining fourth part be applied, either in further reducing the Company's bond debt, or for composing a fund, to be set apart for the use of the Company, in case of extraordinary emergencies." In support of these propositions, lord North said; The very boundless importance of the business before us, demands the most assiduous and minute attention that this House can give it; and I doubt not, Sir, but parliament, through every stage of this momentous business, will enter into the most scrutinizing examination. The point to which I shall confine myself at present is the territorial possessions; and I think it necessary in this part of the affair to drop all examination, or declaration, of the right which the crown has to those possessions, since, from the motion which I have read, there is no want of such examination, as the territories are left, under conditions, entirely in the Relative, Sir, to the particulars of the agreement explained in the motion, I think it is more for the advantage of the Company than the public. No man could more than myself regret the period of receiving 400,000l. a year from the Company; it was an object of great import ance, and such a one as enabled us, and would have yet more enabled us, to ease the public, by lessening the national debt; but, Sir, great as that advantage was, I think we should lose sight of it, when the prosperity of the Company comes in com petition. We are on a precipice; the ob ject of 400,000l. we look down so far upon that its magnitude is diminished; and if we offer to stoop to grasp it, we shall fall headlong down to the ruin of ourselves, and the Company too. I am clearly of opinion, that the first business to be attended to, is to fix the Company on a firm and solid footing; and I think, the plan I have now laid down, is that which bids much the fairest for attaining that end. The public, Sir, gives up all idea of receiving any the least advantage or partici pation, in the revenues of the territorial acquisitions, till the affairs of the Com pany are become solidly re-established; until 1,500,000l. is repaid the public, and until the 1,498,000l. of bond debts are also paid; that is, until they are reduced to 1,500,000l. Thus, Sir, the Company are to receive 3,000,000l. before the public receives one shilling. After this period, they are first to divide 8 per cent. on their capital (if their affairs will allow it), and he said was an expedient fit for ministers like the present to adopt; they knew, he said, their own deficiencies, and though inclined to exert a right to which in strict legality they had no pretensions, yet they were obliged to wave the exertion of their assumed power, and postpone the gratification of their own views; conscious of their incapacity to manage an object too vast for their diminutive capacities, too extensive for their limited understandings. The court of directors were better qualified to manage the Company's affairs, than the present set of ministers were to manage the affairs of government. As an instance of the inattention and weakness of the ministry, Mr. Dowdeswell said, he had almost a year ago called for an estimate of the profits arising upon the imports and exports of sundry American articles, but he could never obtain a sight of such an estimate; the ministry, he said, had not abilities to make it, nor was there an office wherein such estimates were regularly entered. after that, three-fourths of the surplus of the neat profits of their trade and revenues are to be paid into the Exchequer; and as to the other fourth, I have named either a farther reduction of the bond debts, or forming a fund to answer contingencies. But, Sir, if any gentleman will propose a mode of applying this remaining fourth more to the Company's advantage, I shall readily come into it; my only exception is against its going into dividends; the only consequence of which can be the seeing the old trade going on again of gambling in India stock, and fluctuations upon every transitory affair that happens. Now, Sir, upon this plan, the Company must be able to divide 24 per cent. on their capital, in order for the receipt of the public to be equal to 400,000l. the sum before paid by the Company; which, I think, shews clearly that the Company is fully favoured in the proposed transaction. It is true, the public has received 2,200,000l.; and I must own I am very glad the Company had not that sum, for it would have all gone in the same manner as the rest of their wealth has been dissipated, in enriching their servants, and in running up their dividends unnaturally, to the ruin of numbers of proprietors. I hope, Sir, such regulations may be framed as will put an end to the miseries of Bengal, and once more render the Company respectable; and I hope, that the commerce and affairs of the Company will be placed on a better footing by several circumstances; by the sale of tea duty free in America; by a great saving in the expence of their shipping: by payments of sums due to the Company, which they do not think at present of receiving; by freeing the Company from several expensive engagements which they are at present under, and upon other circumstances. And upon this general idea, I flatter myself that the credit of the Company will be re-established, without entirely overlooking the interests of the public. Mr. Dowdeswell objected to almost every part of the propositions. He touched upon the right to the Company's territorial acquisitions, and strenuously maintained that the right to those possessions was vested solely in the Company, and that to talk of the public having any legal claim upon them, was to talk the language of absurdity, tinctured with despotism. As to letting the territorial acquisitions remain in the hands of the Company, this [VOL. XVII.] Respecting the appropriation of the surplus profits after the dividend of 8 per cent. he asked how the money was to be applied? and what were the exigences it was appropriated to answer? On the whole, concluded Mr. Dowdeswell, if I was a proprietor of India stock, I should give my vote for totally rejecting every proposal the noble lord has made; and I should support that vote by several substantial reasons. So far from being terrified at the menace held out by the ministry concerning the territorial acquisitions, I should laugh at it, I should dare the ministry to lay hands on those possessions: they have no right to them; and if they had, they know their own incapacity too well to lay claim to a right, the judi cious exercise of which far exceeds the powers of their scanty intellects. Mr. Edmund Burke rose, and arraigned the conduct of administration. He said, that as to the right of the public to the territorial acquisitions, when it served the purpose of the ministry, it was contended for in the most peremptory manner; but when an assertion of that right militated against their measures, then administration loudly announced the nullity of the claim; or, if the legality of the claim was admitted, the bad policy of exercising it was strenuously contended for. A right, said Mr. Burke, implied something settled, and established by certain known rules and maxims; it implied, in [ 3 H] If you have a right (continued Mr. Burke)-if you have a right, upon what one maxim of law or equity is it founded? When was this right juridically discussed, and finally determined? On what day was the decision given? In what court are we to look for the record of this decision? To what does this right extend? To all, or only to some of the territorial acquisitions? If only to some, of what nature are they? How specified, described, and distinguished from the rest? If you have a right to all the Company's territorial acquisitions, you truly begin a redress of their grievances in a peculiar manner; to restore the ruined state of their finances, you plunder them of their property; and to re-establish the Company's affairs on a permanent basis, you suffer not the proprietors to have a foot of land in India which they can call their own! for his part, he always had had his fears, and would now venture to prophecy his apprehensions, that this cursed Company would at last, viper-like, be the destruc tion of the country which fostered it in her bosom. To strengthen this prediction, Mr. Burke referred to the total want of principle so observable amongst all ranks and degrees of people. The ministry, he said, were not to blame; it was the people, who were grown so indifferent to the welfare of their country on the one hand, and so grossly corrupt on the other, that there was no proposal, how destructive soever to the liberties of the kingdom, which a ministry could make, but what the people would readily comply with. They were, Mr. Burke said, a most servile degenerate herd, destitute of capacity to distinguish, or virtue to relish, what was good. In the proceedings relative to the East India Company's affairs, the justness of these censures was verified to a tittle; the peo ple followed the cry of the ministry, changed as they changed, and varied their tones to keep even a discordant sameness with their masters. Do the ministry as sert the public's right to the territorial possessions of the Company?"Oh," say the parliament and the people, "to be sure they have a right." Do the ministry talk of restraining? It is echoed back by the people, " by all means restrain." Is punishment hinted at? "Punish to the utmost," reply the people. Is lenity recommended?"Mercy is Hea ven's darling attribute," rejoin the herd. Thus, not a single absurdity can be broached, nor a principle can the ministry lay down to day, and contradict to-mor row, but votaries to these contradictions are instantly found among the people! Men have not strength of mind to think for themselves, the higher rank are all su pineness, all indolent acquiescence, all ig norance; the vulgar are a set that will abuse at random, and are to be led on to commit crimes the most atrocious, if headed by some despicable wretch who has an interest to promote, by setting them together by the ears. This has been That in the present dearth of the case; the miller has belaboured the genius, domestic occurrences were almost chimney-sweeper, and the chimney. too much for the understandings of mi-sweeper the miller, and they now only nisters that the East India Company wait the word of cominand to recommence tied about their necks, would, like a mill- the fray. stone, drag them down into an unfathomable abyss; that it was well if it dragged not this nation along with them; for that, Mr. Burke continued to observe, that an easy and simple method had been proposed of adjusting the Company's affairs, such as, if adopted, would have done honour to administration. But that this plan was rejected, and another had been preferred, contradictory to every principle of law, of equity, and the policy of nations. Mr. Burke added, that he had searched into the laws and constitution of this country. I have studied, said he, God knows; hard have I studied, even to the making dogs-ears of almost every statute book in the kingdom, and I now thus publicly and solemnly declare, that all you have been doing, and all you are about to do, in behalf of the East India Company, is impolitic, is unwise, and entirely repugnant to the letter as well as the spirit of the laws, the liberties, and the constitution of this country. Mr. Burke further said, that the East India Company, annexed as an appendage to the British empire, rendered the whole an object of too vast a magnitude for the capacity of any administration whatever to grasp. Mr. Burke observed, that these were sentiments not calculated to gain him popularity; nor did his opposition to the mi nistry arise from a latent view of getting into employment; it was dictated by the genuine opinion and sense he had of the measures now pursuing, which were such as had the completion of the plan of despotism for their end; that this plan he had hitherto and would continue to oppose with all his powers, with all the strength of reasoning of which he was master; that as to the East India Company, he foresaw it would be the destruction of this country; but that, for his part, he would sooner have the Company itself totally overthrown; he would sooner see it fall to ruin about his ears, than have the base of the English constitution undermined, or a single pillar, which contributed to the support of so excellent a structure, receive the slightest fracture, or be defaced in the minutest part. The Resolution was agreed to without a division. The House resumed; the chairman reported progress, and asked leave to sit again. I must remind the House, that when the committee last session sat very diligently upon this matter, such instances of this were laid before them, that never conviction could be stronger than the necessity. of a reform. It appeared, Sir, that within seven miles of London, there are eighteen of these houses; there must be very many poor creatures therefore, and the object of a magnitude highly deserving the attention of the House.-I have proposed in the Bill, Sir, that no person should be received into these houses without being examined by persons appointed by the college of physicians; and also, that the same learned body should appoint inspectors to examine the houses, and all the persons confined in them, once or twice a year; it is not determined which, as there was a difficulty in this point, from not knowing whether the fund provided, would answer more than one annual visitation; the keepers of such houses are also to take out a licence from the same college. By these regulations I apprehend no person, not mad, can ever be taken in; and that when any are justly received, they shall be well taken care of; points all highly essential. I can assure the House, that the college of physicians do agree to the plan, and are very ready to undertake that part of the business which the Bill assigns them. Nor should I omit, in gratitude, to acknowledge the great assistance that you have given in framing this Bill. Upon the whole, Sir, I hope gentlemen will give it a hearty concurrence; and that in case it does not succeed this session, it will do so some time or other by the force of its own merit. It has been suggested that this Bill will abridge the power of the lord chancellor over lunatics; but, Sir, this is a great mistake; on the contrary, it will facilitate the operations of that court, and enlarge its power. Bill for regulating Private Madhouses.] April 22. On moving the second reading of this Bill, Mr. Thomas Townshend said:-I am sorry, Sir, that the second reading of this Bill should be before so thin a House; not that I imagine it will here meet with any opposition, but I am informed that it is likely to be received in a different manner elsewhere, and consequently it would have given a more general satisfaction for gentlemen to have been well apprized of its principles. I have framed it, Sir, with a view to remedying two evils; first, the admittance into madhouses, in order to prevent improper objects being received; and secondly, to rectify the treatment of persons after they are admitted. Sir, it is shocking to humanity to think that any persons should be forced into these miserable receptacles of wretchedness. The idea of any persons being taken in without the clearest grounds for supposing them really in that stage and degree of mad-against the Deputy Clerk of the Crown.] ness which makes the measure necessary, is certainly affecting, and should be guarded against with most careful attention: but at present these houses are under no regulation; they take in who and what they please, and are subject to no inspection; surely every gentleman must at once see the necessity of such a thing being under some regulation. In the next place, Sir, as to the treatment of the unhappy objects confined in these houses, The Bill was then read a second time. Proceedings on Mr. Wilkes's Complaint April 26. Mr. Wilkes went into the rooms belonging to the Clerk of the House of Commons adjoining to the House, and demanded to be sworn in before a commissioner. He likewise sent to a commissioner by another member to demand the commissioner to administer the oaths to him as one of the members for Middlesex. The commissioner refused to swear him in. Mr. Wilkes then desired a member to state that fact to the House, and sent the following Paper to Mr. Glynn: | futurity, which might possibly happen to "Mr. Wilkes complains against Mr. Frewen, Deputy Clerk of the Crown, for refusing him the proper certificate as one of the knights of the shire for the county of Middlesex, and against Mr. Stracey, one of the clerks of the office where the members are usually sworn, who informed Mr. Wilkes, that in the course of office no member can be sworn, who is elected since the general election, without producing a certificate of such election from the Clerk of the Crown. "JOHN WILKES." "Room belonging to the Clerk of the House of Commons, Monday afternoon, three o'clock, April 26, 1773." Mr. Serjeant Glynn immediately made a motion, "That Mr. Wilkes be called in, to make good the matter of his complaint against Charles Frewen, esq. Deputy Clerk of the Crown, for refusing him the proper certificate of his return, as one of the knights of the shire for the county of Middlesex." The question being seconded by Mr. Sawbridge, a short debate arose, and the House divided; the Yeas went forth. Tellers. S Mr. Ald. Sawbridge 124 {Mr. YEAS { Mr. Baker Lord Lisburne :}227 NOES The Earl Sefton So it passed in the negative. Whilst the members who divided in favour of Mr. Serjeant Glynn's motion were in the lobby, encouraged by the fulness of the House, and the numbers who rather unexpectedly joined them, they, after a short consultation, determined to take advantage of the favourable circumstance. Accordingly, sir George Savile was applied to, who readily agreed that then was the proper time to renew his motion relative to the Rights of Election. Sir George therefore gave notice in the lobby, that the moment the division was finished, he should make another "for leave to be given to bring in a Bill for more effectually securing the rights of the electors of Great Britain, with respect to the eligibility of persons to serve in parliament." As soon as the Serjeant's motion was determined, sir George Savile made his motion, and Mr. Dowdeswell seconded it. Mr. Edmund Burke urged the necessity of the motion. He applied the case of Mr. Wilkes as an event in the womb of every member of the House of Commons; he stated the inconveniences which had arisen, and those which would hereafter arise, unless the violated rights of election were restored to their pristine state of purity. He arraigned, in the most poignant terms, the conduct of the ministry, and foretold, that, whatever might be the event of the division on the motion then before the House, there would come a time when those now in office would be reduced to their penitentials, for having turned a deaf ear to the voice of the people; they would, he said, yet have reason to execrate themselves for having dared to infringe upon the liberties, and sport with the laws, the franchises, and consti tution of their country. Mr. Freeman and several other members spoke in favour of the motion. The ques tion being called for, the House divided; the Yeas went forth. YEAS NOES Tellers. Mr. Cavendish Mr. Onslow Mr. Thomas Edwards201 So it passed in the negative. Resolutions allowing the East India Company to export Teas duty free.] April 27. In a committee of the whole House to consider further of the Affairs of the East India Company, in Lord North rose and observed, that throughout the whole examination, which the House had made of the East India business, nothing could possibly have been more attentive to their interest than his motions, and also the House in accepting them; that it was evident, the public would suffer from the very faulty way which the Company had conducted their affairs, even to the loss of 400,000l. a year; and now, instead of that receipt, pany nearly four times that sum; that were obliged in policy to lend the Comalthough there was a prospect of a large advantage on the side of the public, so there ought certainly to be on every consideration; that he had now, in pursuance a proposal to make, which would be of these favourable ideas of the Company, wholly to their advantage: it was to allow the Company to export such part of the tea at present in their warehouses to British America, as they should think pro |