"We are truly sensible of your Majesty's goodness in having granted us as long a recess from business as the public service would admit. "We cannot but express our concern that the peace so long expected, and so very desirable, is not yet concluded between Russia and the Porte: it gives us, however, great satisfaction to hear of the continuance of the pacific dispositions of other foreign powers; and we humbly beg leave to return your Majesty our sin cerest thanks for your Majesty's most gracious declaration, that no endeavours shall be wanting on your part, consistent with the honour of your crown, and the interests of your people, towards the establishment and subsequent preservation of the public tranquillity. "Your Majesty may be assured, that we entertain the justest sense of your Majesty's paternal care in recommending to your parliament to make use of this season of tranquillity for improving the commerce and revenue of the kingdom, and in pointing out to us particularly the necessity, and great national advantage of putting the gold coin on such a footing, as may completely remove the present grievance, and secure the credit and commerce of the kingdom from being again exposed to the like danger: the wisdom and goodness of your Majesty on this occasion appear in so conspicuous a light, as cannot fail to fill our minds with the deepest gratitude, and raise in us the strongest desire of employing our utmost efforts for such salutary purposes. "Animated with every sentiment of duty to your Majesty, and zeal for the public welfare, we will take under our most serious consideration the important objects to which your Majesty has directed our attention." The King's Answer.] His Majesty returned this Answer: "My Lords, "I thank you for this loyal Address. Nothing can give me greater satisfaction than these assurances of your duty and affection. You may always depend upon my hearty concurrence in every measure that contributes to the improvement of commerce, and the true interest and prosperity of my people." The Commons' Address of Thanks.] The Commons being returned to their House, Lord Guernsey moved, that an humble Address of thanks be presented to his Majesty for the great wisdom he had shewn in his most gracious Speech, in recommending the most serious attention to be paid to the Gold Coin Act, and for the particular regard he had expressed to secure general tranquillity, throughout his dominions. He said his Majesty had seen the most glorious sight that a monarch could behold; he alluded to the naval review; yet it had not filled him with any vain notions; that no rapacious thoughts filled his breast; that it was true, we kept up a powerful fleet and armament; but it was not to destroy or disturb the peace of weaker powers, but to maintain the honour and dignity of this nation; that his Majesty had most seriously recommended the state of the gold coin to be looked into, and he made no doubt but that every member would lend an assisting hand. Mr. St. John rose to second the Address. He dwelt particularly on the very singular benefits the Gold Coin Act had produced by raising the exchange in our favour with every country in Europe, especially with Amsterdam; circumstance not known for many years. He likewise expatiated largely on the speech from the throne, so far as it recommended the further consideration of so momentous a business to parliament, observing that, as a standard between man and man, as immediately and essentially connected with our trade and revenue, it was of the highest consequence to our trading and commercial interests. Mr. Prescott said, that whatever high opinion those gentlemen might please to entertain of the Act in question, he by no means approved of its being brought in so late in the last session, nor of its injurious effects in relation to the bankers, who only held other people's cash, but were obliged *Afterwards earl of Aylesford. to pay it back at a different standard, at | repeat to us, that you have no other wish a very considerable loss. than to see the general tranquillity restored and preserved, consistently with the honour of your crown, and the interests of your people; and we consider this gracious declaration of your Majesty as a fresh instance of your Majesty's paternal care for the welfare of your subjects, and of your generous concern for the happiness of mankind. "We are truly sensible that it is our duty, as it shall be our care, to employ the leisure which the state of foreign af fairs allows us, in attending to our inter Lord North replied, that since the ruinous state of the gold coin shewed the necessity there was to put it under some regulation, to prevent its increase, and the many consequences which might be justly dreaded from it, he was glad to find, that those who could best bear the loss, and were gainers by the situation which occasioned it, were those who felt it most severely; that if a tax had been laid to make good the deficiency, it would have put the nation at large to a very high expence, and opened a door for very gross imposi-nal and domestic situation: and we cantions, as was the case in king William's time, when on a notice of a similar kind, relative to the silver coin, the nation had been put to an expence of two millions and a half; but that, in the present instance, the expence had fallen where it could be best borne; and that if any further regulations should become necessary, it would be trifling, and, therefore, he believed, be cheerfully made good by the public. Mr. Van said, that Mr. Prescott had informed the House what a loss the bankers had sustained, but forgot to acquaint them, that immediately after the passing the Act last session, the bankers issued out orders, that they would take guineas that wanted 18d. which gave them an opportunity to dispose of the greatest part of their light gold. They then issued out a fresh order, that they could not take any guineas but at the standard allowed by the Bank; so that, in his humble opinion, the bankers had not suffered so much as the merchants. to: The following Address was then agreed not but acknowledge your Majesty's great wisdom, in recommending and pointing out to our serious consideration the state of the gold coin of this kingdom, as well on account of its very extensive importance, as of the peculiar advantages which the present time affords, for conducting and executing with success any measures touching this great national object: we saw, with the deepest concern, the difficulties and distress in which the nation was on the point of being involved, by the very alarming degree of diminution which this coin had actually suffered, before the evil was checked by the regula tions made in the last session of parliament; and we beg leave to assure your Majesty, that, impressed with a just sense of our duty to our country and our fellow subjects, we will exert our best endea vours to accomplish the great work of putting the gold coin upon such a footing, as may not only completely remove the present grievance, but as far as the nature of the case will admit, render the credit and commerce of the kingdom secure from being again exposed to the like danger. "Most Gracious Sovereign, "Your faithful Commons will, with the "We, your Majesty's most dutiful and utmost cheerfulness, grant to your Ma loyal subjects, the Commons of Great Bri-jesty such supplies as shall be found netain, in parliament assembled, return your Majesty our most humble thanks, for your Majesty's most gracious Speech from the throne. "Permit us, Sir, to assure your Majesty, that we sincerely regret that the peace so long expected, and so much desired, is not yet effected, between Russia and the Porte; but, at the same time, we beg leave to express the satisfaction we feel, in learning that other foreign powers continue still to have the same pacific dispositions with your Majesty: we acknowledge, with the utmost gratitude, the assurance which your Majesty has been pleased to cessary in the present situation of affairs: and your Majesty may be assured, that, animated by your recommendation, and excited by your example, we will apply ourselves with the utmost zeal and dili gence to promote the welfare of our coun try; and that we will not fail to direct our attention to such parts of the public service as appear to us most important; having a perfect confidence, that whatever measures we may propose, that will serve either to secure or advance the happiness and prosperity of your people, will always meet with your Majesty's gracious appro bation and concurrence." The King's Answer.] His Majesty returned this Answer: "Gentlemen, "I thank you for this very loyal and dutiful Address. I see with the highest satisfaction the continuance of your affection to me, and of your zeal for the public service; you may rest assured, that it is the invincible object and constant care of my life to promote the happiness, and to deserve the confidence of my people." Debate in the Commons on the Navy Estimates.] January 21. The House having resolved itself into a Committee of Supply, Mr. Buller moved, "That 20,000 men be employed for the sea service for the year 1774, including 4,354 marines; and that 44. per man per month be allowed for their maintenance, including ordnance for sea service." He said he was sorry to ask for so large a supply; but it might be depended upon, that next year the demand would be lessened, as the fleet now in the East Indies, consisting of six ships of the line, would be home by Christmas, and be discharged; we should, therefore, not want so large a number of seamen, and consequently a smaller supply would do. Mr. Sawbridge said, that the minister every year told us, that the demands of the next year would be much smaller; but he did not see that we could put any dependance in what he said, for the supply asked for this year, was the same as the last, and double what any former peace required; that when we were last war driving every thing before us, and had become the terror of the whole world, we made a disadvantageous peace, and the reasons alleged for it were, that we were not able to bear the expence of a war, yet we had ever since maintained that disgraceful peace with a war establishment, and therefore he should not give his assent to so large a demand. Lord North said, that though the hon. gentleman had said no dependance was to be put in what he said, yet he would venture to affirm, that no man had the interest of his country more at heart; that it was not his desire to maintain 20,000 if 10,000 would do; that he was very averse to ask for large supplies, but we could not regulate our expences by any former peace; that the fleet which we kept in the East Indies was a chief reason for our annual demand being so [VOL. XVII. ] great, as provisions were much dearer there than any where else; but there was a great difference between our establishment now and in time of war; that at the conclusion of the last war 16,000 seamen were thought necessary to be the peace establishment; that the alarm in 1771 had occasioned us to add 4,000 more; but he was in hopes the fleet from the East Indies would be home by Christmas, when 3,000 seamen would be discharged; and he made no doubt but 17,000 would be sufficient for the next year; that at the time of the alarm in 1771, our fleet was found to be in a ruinous state, and very little timber in our dock-yards; but now he flattered himself the navy was on a respectable footing, and by Christmas next there would be 3 years stock of timber in each dock-yard; that we should now have only to keep up the stock, which would not require so large a sum annually as the last three years. Mr. Dowdeswell said, that he hoped not to be considered as an enemy to the navy, if he agreed in thinking the establishment too much for a profound peace; and as his Majesty had assured us that other powers were very pacific, and it should be his aim to preserve a general tranquillity, he saw no reason why the establishment should be more now than at the conclusion of the war; but the noble lord had told us, that a large sum of money had been expended to repair the navy, which was in a terrible condition a 1771; that he should be glad to be informed how the supplies from 1763 to 1771 had been expended, that the navy was suffered to rot; that either the minister had not demanded sufficient, or misapplied what was granted. Lord North said, that he was in administration but three years out of the eight, and therefore was not obliged to answer for the conduct of others; yet he would be bold to say, that the hurry in which ships were built at the conclusion of the last war, when we could not get dry timber, had been the means of their rotting in seven years, when they ought to have lasted 15; that at the alarm in 1771, when we were so scarce of timber, we had been obliged to contract with the merchants for several ships, all of which would be launched this year, and then our own docks would be able to supply us; that the money which had been expended on the navy was not merely to repair, but to restore it. Mr. Pulteney said, as the noble lord had declared, that when the East India [SP] fleet arrived there would be a reduction of 3,000 seamen, he hoped they would be discharged from the 17,000, and that next year 14 thousand would be thought sufficient. Lord North could not promise it should be reduced lower than 17,000, and if they were capable of that, he thought it was doing a great deal. Mr. I. Townshend said, that it might be thought trifling in him to contend for a single thousand, but he should be glad some gentleman of the navy would inform him the reason why 17,000 must be maintained, when, by the noble lord's account, 16,000 were thought sufficient at the conclusion of the late war. Mr. Dowdeswell said, that he left town last year two or three days before the session ended, but reading the King's Speech in the country, he was surprised at the following words, "I am glad to find you have in some measure been able to reduce the National Debt." He said he did not recollect that any of the 3 per cents, or other funds, had been paid off, or that any of the navy bills had been discharged; the only thing he knew of was 1,800,000l. exchequer bills paid off, but 1,800,000/. more he understood were borrowed; that if any thing had been paid off, it was more than he recollected; that though the land tax was a shilling in the pound more than in any former peace, it did not raise a supply of more than two millions clear of all deductions, which expence was annually laid out on the navy, so that if the flame of war should break out we should be in a bad state to defend ourselves, as all our land tax was expended on the navy only, and our credit was lower than ever, as appeared by the funds, for in Mr. Grenville's time, the 3 per cents were 97, and now they were but 86, so that if any saving could be made it was highly necessary. Lord North replied, that he agreed with the right hon. gentleman, that any saving that could be made was necessary; that the demands hitherto had been so great, that he asked them with reluctance; that it was true no part of the public funds had been discharged; but the right hon. gentleman was wrong in his account of exchequer bills, as 1,800,000l. had been paid off, and only a million borrowed, which made a difference of 800,000l. 300,000l. of which had been applied to the use of the navy, and the other 500,000l. to the discharge of the national debt, which, in his humble opinion, was sufficient to justify that part in his Majesty's Speech which had been alluded to. That, in answer to Mr. Townshend, why 17,000 men should be maintained when 16,000 were enough, he hoped the following reasons would be thought sufficient: that, during the Turkish war, the merchants trading there had desired to have two frigates to protect them, one of which had been recalled; but affairs were in so deplorable a state there, that he verily believed it must be sent back again; that the year before last we were obliged to send two sloops to Falkland's island, but he had endeavoured to lessen the expence by recalling one; that the fleet which had been ob. liged to be kept in the East Indies, were all extra services, which required more strength than was foreseen at the conclusion of the war; but though the right hon. gentleman had said we were in a deplorable condition to go to war, he would take upon him to say that we never had so respectable a fleet as at present; for we had now 70 ships of the line in good re pair, and 12 more would be launched in the course of the year, which would make the number 82; a fleet which no other nation could boast of; but, perhaps, some gentlemen would say it was far too great; yet he would venture to affirm, that should a war break out, we should have occasion for our utmost force, as we should have to combat France and Spain. The Resolutions were then agreed to. Debate in the Commons on the Army Estimates.] January 26. The House went into a Committee of Supply. Lord Barrington moved, that 18,024 men be employed for guards and garrisons in Great Britain, Jersey, and Guernsey, for the year 1774, and 15,000 in Minorca, Gibraltar, the ceded islands, and North America, during the same period; and to make good the charges of the same, including the half-pay to officers. Sir Charles Cocks moved, that 271,000% including an expence of several enumerated articles, amounting to upwards of 26,000l. be the charge of the Ordnance for 1774.-Lord Barrington was glad to inform the House, that the expences of the army this year were not so much as the last by 1,0047. The estimates for the ordnance greatly exceeded, however, any before granted, which sir C. Cocks explained by the number of ordnance stores that had been expended on the shipping, repairs done to the foundery at Woolwich, Mr. T. Townshend was sorry to see every year our demands increase; that the peace establishment for seamen was increased from 16 to 17,000, and he thought some stop should be put to such proceedings; that Mr. Grenville, while in administration, had made it his business to enquire what those supplies were for, and if any were superfluous, to deny them; but we, as the lion. gentleman who spoke last had said, were always inattentive at the time we were granting supplies, without ever examining what they were for; that great sums were annually granted for protecting what we called achievements gained in the last war, and which were of no service to us: a parcel of forts, two or three hundred miles distant from each other, scarcely able to defend themselves against the Indians, and of no manner of importance. Mr. Van said, that great sums were likewise expended to protect the Bostonians, &c. who by their conduct did not deserve protection; that they were numerous enough to defend themselves against an enemy, but not strong enough to rebel against us. Mr. Dowdeswell spoke much in favour of the administration of Mr. Pelham; he said, that our keeping up a large armament now was no stroke of good policy; that at the commencement of the last war there was not the force we now had, yet we proved successful; and he would venture to prophesy, that let a war break out when it would, we should lose at first, let our strength be ever so great, as it lay in the breast of the enemy to attack which place they thought the weakest. He said we were in no situation to go to war, public credit was very low; that Mr. Pelham did not load the subjects with taxes on the eve of a war, but on the contrary reduced the interest of the national debt one per cent. and concluded with saying, he thought we should soon have more debt than the state would ever be able to pay. man Bull for the City of London.] Jan. 26. Mr. Alderman Hopkins presented a Petition from John Roberts, esq., complaining, that at the late election of a citizen to serve in parliament for the city of London, in which he and the right hon. Frederic Bull, lord mayor of the said city, were candidates, the sheriffs admitted several persons to poll for the lord mayor, who had no right to vote in the said election, whereby, and by several illegal practices, and other undue means and proceedings, a pretended majority had been procured in favour of the lord mayor to his prejudice, who otherwise had a clear majority of legal votes, and ought to have been elected and returned to serve as member for the city; and praying the House to take it into consideration, and grant the petitioner relief. He introduced the Petition nearly in words to this effect: I rise to move for leave to present a Petition from John Roberts, esq.; complaining of an undue election and return for a member to serve in parliament for the city of London. That gentleman, however ambitious he may be of a seat in this hon. House, would have hardly troubled you on this occasion, merely on his own account; but, thinking it his duty to obey the wishes of his constituents, and to preserve the rights of 2,481 livery-men, who have given him their suffrages, he means to preserve from violation that inestimable blessing, the freedom of election; I therefore move, that this Petition be taken into consideration on the 21st of February. Mr. Alderman Bull (lord mayor). Mr. Speaker; I am sorry to find the House is to have any trouble on my account. Notwithstanding it was said there would be a petition, conscious that there was not the slightest foundation for it, I did not expect that any would have been presented. I can declare, with the utmost truth, I have used no unfair methods, nor exerted any undue influence, to succeed in my election. I owe the hon. seat I have in this House solely to the favourable opinion of my constituents and fellow citizens, the livery of London. The gentlemen who interested themselves in my favour well knew, that I did not wish for a seat, even in this great council of the nation, if it could not be obtained without a violation of the first principles of the constitution, or injustice to any individual. Debate in the Commons on Mr. Roberts's I am therefore ready to answer every obPetition against the Return of Mr. Alder-jection, and perfectly easy about the The Resolutions were agreed to. 1 |