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which, while it might prevent the granting of the preference in civil service, might also prevent the granting of an immunity or privilege in another particular which ought to be granted. Inasmuch as this amendment is aimed at nothing definite, its insertion in the Constitution would amount merely to a declaration of principle on the part of this body. We might just as well adopt a resolution to the effect that we deprecate the growing tendency of individuals and classes to obtain preferences over other individuals and other classes. Mr. President, we cannot by inserting this provision in our Constitution, change the trend of public opinion, however much we may desire to do so. We ought not to be attracted by the proposition to submit this question to the people in the fall of 1917. If that is to be done, let us keep our hands off. Let two successive legislatures pass it and then let it be submitted to the people. Mr. President, for these reasons, I withdraw my request to be excused from voting and desire to be recorded in the affirmative.

When Mr. Donnelly's name was called he said: Mr. President, I am told by the movers of this proposition that it is a plan to create a great state of equality. Those who support the proposition have grown very fatuous about the future. Some of the older men of the Convention have indulged seriously in this. They remind me somewhat of the words of the great poet Horace, when he tells us that "The old men were praising the days when they were boys, doubtful of the future." I believe in the perpetuity of our government. I believe that the present system of government is going to go forward and can meet all the exigencies that arise from time to time. Humanitarian legislation is here to stay and it must stay under the provisions of the Constitution, which provide for equal protection under all of the laws, and that does not mean that we can have universal equality among men. We are told here that all people are made free and equal and much talk is made of equality, but it seems to me that these provisions are going to shackle the people's freedom. I am against this measure, and I withdraw my request to be excused from voting and ask to be recorded in the affirmative.

When Mr. Doughty's name was called he said: Mr. President, I do not wish to be excused from voting, but to explain my vote under the provisions of Rule 7. I believe this question should be postponed until the report of the Bill of Rights Committee comes


When Mr. Heaton's name was called he said: Mr. President, I ask to be excused from voting and will briefly state my reasons. Realizing that this question comes nearer the hearts and the minds of the great mass of the people of this State than perhaps any

other question which will be discussed upon this floor, and knowing that for many years people of all classes have had their minds directed to this very question, and believing that they ought to be able to express their views by their votes, I desire to withdraw my request and to vote No.

When Mr. Delancy Nicoll's name was called he said: Mr. President, I ask to be excused from voting and will briefly state my reasons. I should have said nothing upon the subject of this amendment were it not for the fact that I am reported in some of the morning journals as having voted for it. Now, as a matter of fact, I have always been opposed to it and took no part in the discussion because it never seemed to me possible that it would carry in a Convention of sensible men. I am opposed to the amendment because I find nothing in the commission to this Convention which warrants us in any attempt to reconstruct society or to disturb the foundations upon which it rests. Under some other ideal conditions, perhaps on another planet where all men are equal not only in law but in fact, some such experiment as this might be tried, but as long as the inequalities and imperfections of humanity continue, no government could possibly rest upon so rigid and inflexible a doctrine as that which is expressed in this proposal. Therefore, I withdraw my request to be excused and vote Aye.

When Mr. Quigg's name was called he said: Mr. President, I ask to be excused from voting and will briefly say why. Mr. Nicoll remarked a moment ago that he had not heretofore participated in the debate because he could not suppose that in a body of sensible men this matter would have serious consideration. Mr. Wickersham said last night in the debate: "I think there never was placed before any deliberative assembly so foolish, so reactionary, so absurd a measure." Mr. President, when men of informed, really cultivated intellect, of mature minds, such men as Mr. Barnes and Judge Clearwater, on the one hand, are found to differ with such men as Mr. Wickersham and Mr. Nicoll, it seems to me that it ill becomes any of them so to refer to the contentions of another. What is this proposition? That two years from now the people shall be permitted to vote on the question whether or not the Legislature shall pass a bill granting privilege to a class which is not granted equally to all the members of the State. Now, unless by saving that this is absurd, gentlemen simply mean that it is inexpedient, they do wrong to one another. If they mean that it is likely in passing this, in allowing the people to vote on it two years from now, it may be assumed that the Convention commits itself to the proposition, that certainly cannot be true. If we were putting it into this main body of the Constitution to

be voted on this fall, perhaps it might be thought, and justly, that we were recommending it to the people. But when, under Mr. Barnes' proposition, we pass it over for two years so that the people may have that time to think about it and so that we ourselves inay think about it, it seems to me that our vote does not carry with it the expression of any opinion whatever on our part other than the feeling that it is a question sufficiently great to permit the people of this State to vote on it two years from now after they have heard what Judge Clearwater thinks and have studied that, and have heard what Mr. Wickersham thinks and have studied that. I believe that the people ought to have that right, and so, sir, I withdraw my request to be excused and I vote No. When Mr. Shipman's name was called he said: Mr. President, I beg to be excused from voting at the present time and will briefly state my reasons. The very movers of this proposition come before this Convention armed with privilege themselves. By their very entry into this Convention they have a privilege probably it does not affect them very much freedom from arrest during this Convention. The second one does affect them. They have freedom from being questioned as to any remark made in the debate. during the sessions of this Convention a most wholesome privilege, which the drastic words of this proposed amendment would effectually cut off. Those two privileges are given to them by the Legislature. Then, again, privileges are enjoyed by the members of this State in various walks of life, which are most wholesome. Take, for instance, the schools where aid is extended to worthy and needy scholars such as was passed a few years ago for privileges in the way of forwarding education, and that grant from time to time, as needed, will be unquestionably cut off. And then the very wording of the amendment is so far-reaching, so drastic, in its short and curt terms, that the Legislature in the case of a national calamity or a time of dire need in this State, would be absolutely cut off from rendering assistance to a particular community or particular persons when relief is most needed and help is most urgently desired, because certain individuals benefited thereby would enjoy a privilege which is not shared by others. Take, for instance, in the case of our national government in the past year. Take the case of the Americans stranded in Europe, American refugees carried from one point to another to be in safety a situation like that in this State would not be met were this amendment to be enforced. For these reasons and others that I do not wish to take up the time of the Convention with, I beg to withdraw my excuse and vote Ave.

When Mr. Unger's name was called he said: Mr. President, if I were to perform no other duty to my constituents than that

of voting against this bill, I should feel that I had entirely justified their selection of me to represent them here. Every voice raised against this bill is but an echo of society's eternal protest against vice, ignorance and industrial vassalage. Indeed I would be false to every ideal I cherish, I would be disloyal to my belief in the tenets of American government if I voted to incorporate this distrust of representative government into our fundamental law and to forever foreclose my unfortunate and needy brother from that remedial legislation to which he is entitled. I therefore vote Aye.

When Mr. Westwood's name was called he said: Mr. President, I desire to explain my vote, for not exceeding three minutes; and in this connection, I hope I may be pardoned for saying that under rule 7 of our Convention any member may explain his vote. for not exceeding three minutes and it is hardly necessary to go through the interesting farce of demanding to be excused from voting. I recognize the distinction between the duty which the individual owes the State and the duty the State owes to individuals. As to the first there should be no exceptions or exemp tions. Everyone alike must fulfill his duty to government. But the State which moves with us through representatives, in its own interest, the interest of its peace, of its vigor, of its perpetuation, should be permitted, if it sees fit to differentiate between classes. I therefore vote Aye.

Ayes, 92; Noes, 45.

The President- - Report of the Committee of the Whole is agreed to. The Chair will lay before the Convention the report. of the Committee on Revision and Engrossment which was temporarily laid aside earlier in the day. The Secretary will restate the report.

The Secretary Mr. Rodenbeck, from the Committee on Revision and Engrossment, to which was referred the Proposed Constitutional Amendment, Print No. 775, Introductory No. 291, introduced by Mr. R. B. Smith, entitled Proposed Constitutional Amendment. To amend Article III and Section 4 of Article IV of the Constitution in relation to voluntary sessions of the Legislature, reports the same with the following recommendations: Page 1, line 4, after the word "may" strike out the comma, and insert comma after the word “motion" in the same line. Page 1. line 7, after the word may "strike out the comma and insert a comma after the word "motion" in the same line. Page 1, line 9. strike out the comma after the word "section." Page 2, line 7, strike out the comma after the word "senate."


The President - The question is upon agreeing to the report of the Committee on Revision and Engrossment. All in favor of

agreeing with the report will say Aye, contrary No. The ayes have it and the report is agreed to.

Mr. Wickersham - I move the Convention do now take a recess until half-past two this afternoon. All those in favor say Aye, contrary No. The Ayes have it, and the Convention stands in recess until half-past two.

Whereupon, at 1 P. M., the Convention took a recess until 2:30 P. M., same date.

The President


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The Convention will come to order.

Mr. Westwood Mr. President, I would like to ask unanimous consent to move to discharge the Committee on Public Utilities from further consideration of Print No. 491, Introductory No. 479, to amend it as indicated on the sheet of paper that I will send to the desk, reprint and recommit.

The President Is there objection? The Chair hears none and it is so ordered. The Convention will return to Committee of the Whole for the consideration of the special orders of the day, the report of the Committee on Public Utilities. Mr. Steinbrink will resume the Chair.

The Chairman The Committee will continue its deliberations on Special Order, General Order No. 38, Public Utilities.

Mr. Hale Gentlemen of the Committee, I believe I have concluded all that I care to call to your attention in regard to the provision that the Legislature may continue to exercise jurisdiction in matters of rates and service, provided it calls upon the commission having the matter in charge for a report.

That leaves as the next thing in order for your consideration the provision in regard to reviewing in the courts the orders and determinations of the commission. It is to be observed, as I have already called to your attention, that these commissions are legislative bodies. In other words they were not devised by the Constitution as a matter of original creation. With the single exception, I believe, of the State of Arizona in its new Constitution - I think I am correct in stating that every commission in the 46 States which now have commissions with the single exception of Arizona, was created originally by the Legislature of the State, The Interstate Commerce Commission was created by Congress. The commission in the Philippine Islands was the creation of the government of the United States in the Islands. So the matter is necessarily legislative. Your committee was asked to make

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