highest authority in the Punjab, as he was a high authority in England, upon all matters relating to this question, Mr. Cust, and he would be glad if he would do them the honour of making some observations upon the subject.

Mr. CUST stated that as one of the oldest administrators of the Punjab he was glad to be present. He had listened with great admiration to the remarks of Sir Charles Roe. He was glad to hear such a wise paper following upon such a wise administration, and such wise decisions of Sir Charles Roe's as he had heard of. As to what Sir Charles Roe had said of the Punjab, he (the speaker) had only seen darkly in the early days of the Punjab customs having the force of law; but in the Lord Lawrence school to which he belonged they recognised the fact that they had not that minute acquaintance with the customary laws which later generations had acquired. He rejoiced also to hear from Sir Lepel Griffin's remarks how wise and true the policy had been which respected the laws of the people in everything, especially with regard to land tenure. He desired to tender his most hearty thanks to the lecturer, and to say that he agreed with every word he had uttered.

Mr. M. S. HAKIM said that it seemed to him, in the presence of such an intelligent assembly, difficult to say much upon this subject, but coming from the Shahpur district of the Punjab, he would venture to make a few observations upon the subject. Sir Charles Roe had alluded in his earlier remarks to the agricultural indebtedness of the Punjab, and that to his mind was a great evil at the present time. No doubt it had existed from the time of Moses down to the present, but the amount at present charged as interest in India was greater than he had ever known in the annals of history. At the present moment the attention of the British Government at home had been greatly directed to the question of interest; and the fact was that a Bill was before Parliament at the present moment for remedying the present system of money-lending in England. He could see no reason why the Indian Government should not take similar steps to save the poor people in India, who were much poorer than the people of England. He had known interest charged from 40, 50 or 60 to 80 per cent. No doubt the fact was before the minds of the Indian Government, but they did not seem to be prepared to take such steps as were being taken here. He would like to see some such remedy in India. It seemed to him that until that evil was taken away the transfer of land could not be prevented in any way. If the person had no money he had to go to the money-lender, and if the Government was not prepared to take steps to control the money-lender, he could see no remedy.

LIEUT.-COL. SURGEON-MAJOR DR. INCE desired to make a few remarks upon the eloquent language they had just heard, because they were always glad to hear the voice of the Indian population, and considering the difficulty there was from a linguistic point of view, they had every reason to congratulate the last speaker upon the proficient way in which he had addressed them in their own language. The address they had listened to that afternoon dealt with a very important point in the subject of anthropology. It was a bit of the history of human nature, and it brought them down to a

very advanced period. Some had thought that Adam and Eve were the very first people who occupied this globe. It might be so-he did not remember. When they looked through the ages beyond the Bible, beyond the Egyptian period, beyond the Chinese records, they had the positive fact that the human race was not born yesterday. And in considering the subject of the tribes of the Punjab they had to consider a very important point with regard to the management of that important part of the British Empire. He could only wish that Lord George Hamilton and other members of the British Government had been present that afternoon in order that there might have been impressed upon their minds the inappropriateness of putting English clothes upon the people of the Punjab (to use a figure of speech) with regard to their laws. As Sir Lepel Griffin had observed, it was highly probable that the chief source of difficulty with their Irish brothers and sisters was that they had been governed not by their own developed customs and laws, but that there had been inadvisedly imposed upon them laws that were entirely foreign to their country. So had it been with regard to India. The more that principle could be learned, and the more clearly and distinctly it could be seen by those who ruled over the country, the more hope there would be of the continued integrity and security of the Indian Empire as a portion of the British Empire.

MR. T. STOKER, C.S.I., said that he laboured under the disadvantage of not being of the Punjab. Though he had not resided in Heaven, he had lived next door to it, and it had been his lot to see the towers of Delhi, as Moses beheld the promised land, though perhaps from a more remote distance. Tribal government in the Panjab survived in a very much more marked degree than it did in the North-West Provinces, owing to historical reasons, and also, perhaps, to older civilization. The progress of disintegration had been much faster, and it was more difficult to trace in the North-West Provinces that tribal origin. Unfortunately they had not in the North-West Provinces such a record as Sir Charles Roe described in the Punjab ; and they were left to grope very much in the dark, and to try to find out the origin of the customs obtaining there by reference to very obscure records. Yet still a common origin and conditions in the two provinces could be traced to a common source. Unfortunately from that source could be deduced a common evil. Sir Charles Roe had alluded to the very serious mischief which had arisen and was arising from the alienation of land. There the people of the North-West Provinces stood on a common field of suffering with their brethren of the Punjab. He had no doubt that in each case alike the mischief was due to their disregarding the conceptions upon which the ownership of land was based in all parts of the country. It was not a question of individuals. He believed that the natives of India could look upon the natives of other countries with great calmness; it was when the interest of tribes, groups and villages was touched that they began to feel the sting. And he thought that in those circumstances they might find not only the origin of the difficulty, but its remedy. The subject was of such extreme importance that he hesitated to speak with anything like dogmatism upon it, but he was disposed to say that the remedy for the disintegration of agrarian society, which was

caused by imprudent alienations of land, might be found in restricting the right of the acquisition of property to those families, classes and tribes which were by immemorial usage land-owning classes. It seemed impossible to restrict in the case of an individual his right to alienate his land. Unfortunately things had been allowed to go too far to take such a drastic measure, but he would suggest that land should not be allowed to be held by the class who could not, and would not, discharge the duties of landowners. He was afraid, speaking on behalf of the NorthWest Provinces, that he could not claim for them the commendation that had been passed on the beneficial results of the Courts of the Punjab. In the North-West Provinces the attention of the highest tribunals had been rather directed to an administration of laws which were for India of exotic origin. He could point to illustrations, but it would be invidious to specify individuals. He could not help recalling that until not long ago among the precedents which governed the North-West Provinces there was a precedent which emanated from the High Court which prohibited the construction by a native contractor of a village well, and there were innumerable instances of cases in which the construction of wells was prohibited by order of the Civil Court, with the result that the resources of the district remained very imperfectly developed, and people were prevented from the proper source of irrigation which was felt when a time of famine came. He concluded by saying that he had not come prepared to speak upon the subject of the paper. He could claim no acquaintance with the Punjab. But he would commend to everyone concerned in the matter the imperative necessity of taking steps to see that the alienation of land into the money-owning and non-resident class of landlords should be prevented at the earliest possible date.

SIR CHARLES ROE desired, in continuation of the paper he had read, to thank his old friend Sir Lepel Griffin and Mr. Cust for the far too flattering terms in which they expressed their agreement with the substance of what he had said. It was the first time he had had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Cust personally, but his name was a household word to all those engaged in the administration of land revenues in the Punjab. He was really the father of the Punjab revenue system, and if later officers had been able to go further into questions of custom than it was possible for their first officers to do, the reason was that the first officers laid the foundation so well that those who came after them were able to build upon their foundations. As to the other questions that had been raised, as to the agricultural indebtedness, and as to general questions as to the administration of law, there was not time to touch upon them, and moreover they were really foreign to the paper, which dealt solely with customary law, as far as it related to land in the Punjab. The one principle that he had endeavoured to express was applicable not only to judicial decisions, but also to both political and scientific matters, and that was, Get hold of the facts, and be sure of them before you begin to apply theories. If you started with red-hot theories and tried to harmonize your facts in accordance with them, you would only make a great mess of the matter, whether it was judicial, political or scientific.

The CHAIRMAN said he had only now to ask the meeting for a vote of thanks to Sir Charles Roe for his most interesting paper. He was sorry

they had not had a longer discussion upon the question, but he thought that all those who thoroughly understood the question, and to a certain extent had made it part of their business in life to understand it, must be to a great extent in agreement with Sir Charles Roe, who had laid down principles without which the Punjab could not be governed properly. He was glad to see Mr. Hakim, from the Shahpur district. From the point of view of an Indian gentleman who came from a place where he saw hereditary land on every hand, tribal land, family land, going into the hands of the money-lender under the present iniquitous laws, the Association was in the warmest sympathy with his views as to the necessity of the Government taking some measure to alter the existing state of things. He could not but think that, although the question was a difficult one, the courage with which the Government was now dealing with the matter, as Mr. Hakim had pointed out, might encourage the somewhat timid Indian Government to take steps in that direction. The Chairman concluded the meeting by proposing a vote of thanks to Sir Charles Roe.

CORRESPONDENCE, NOTES AND NEWS.

THE GROWTH OF THE EMPIRE.

SIR ROBERT GIFFEN, the eminent Government statistician, states that the British Empire has a territory of 11,500,000 square miles, and if Egypt and the Soudan be included, 13,000,000. In this vast territory, it is estimated that there is a population of 420,000,000, about one fourth of the whole earth. Of this population, about 50,000,000 are of English speech and race, chiefly in the United Kingdom, British North America, and Australasia, the remainder being composed of races for the most part in India and Africa. The revenue of the different parts at present amounts to £257,653,000, and the imports and exports to £1,375,000,000. The increase of revenue since 1871 is more than 40 per cent., and the increase of imports and exports during the same period is about one third of the present total. The Colonies have increased at a greater rate than the Mother Country, from the increase of population chiefly manifested in Australasia. The possession of such a vast Empire increases the responsibilities of the Imperial Government towards the fortunes and welfare of the human race.

THE NIGER COAST PROTECTORATE.

The regions of the Niger Protectorate are estimated to cover 500,000 square miles, with a population of from 20,000,000 to 35,000,000. The total revenue for the past year-1897-98-amounted to £153,181, and expenditure £121,900. The present aspect of affairs with native chiefs is reported to be "most satisfactory and encouraging." The transfer of these territories to the Imperial Government is expected to take place not sooner than next month (May).

ZOROASTRIAN COLLEGE, BOMBAY.

Dastur Darab Peshotan Sunjána, a high priest of the Parsees, has been appointed Principal of the Sir Jamsetjee Jejeebhoy Zoroastrian College at Bombay in place of his deceased father. He is one of the best Avesta and Pehlevi scholars, and author of several works in ancient Persian languages, among which is a pamphlet entitled "Tansar's Alleged Pehlevi Letter to the King of Tabaristan from the Standpoint of the late Professor Darmesteter." The latter, in discussing the origin of the Zoroastrian literature and religion arrived at the conclusion that the Parsee Scriptures did not date back further than the times of Ardeshir Bābakān and Shāpur, and that much of the doctrine was historically derivable from the neoplatonists. The Dastur has attempted to refute these conclusions as to the age of the Zend Avesta, and his "observations on Professor Darmesteter's theory regarding Tansar's letter to the King of Tabaristan and the date of the Avesta" is instructive reading for Oriental scholars.