He said, that if he should be compelled to select any portion of the population of the United States to defend the Union, in any emergency, he should look to the West.

not be willing or compelled to make sacrifices Green River less united in interest and feeling to obtain it? If opposed, might they not be than the people west and east of the Alleghany exasperated? If defeated, might they not feel mountains? Are the citizens of Kentucky it their duty to resist? Might not indulgence less attached to their State constitution than become a prominent feature in Western policy? the western people are to the general governMight not members of Congress be elected ment? He said, that the nature of the confedsolely with a view to the indulgence? Might eration would prove that a federal land debt they not be willing to make legislative com- must be infinitely more mischievous than any promises to attain the only end of their elec-state debt, under any circumstances, on action? Would not the East thus have an ascen- count of the magnitude of the debt, and the deney, almost irresistible, over the West? confliction of political interests, and feelings, From such a humiliating and perilous pre- and obligations, not merely in the West, but dicament, Mr. Robertson said he would, while in the East, and the North, and the South. it was yet possible, rescue the Western country. The mammoth land debt, if permitted to grow, would be sufficiently calamitous if it should only lead to some of the consequences at which he had hinted. Such consequences He concurred fully with his colleague, (Mr. it was the duty of every citizen to avert. He Brown) that the people of the West are as much knew, he said, that he would be told, that the devoted to the general interests of the Union, people of the United States are too virtuous and would make as many sacrifices to maintain and enlightened to permit a sectional debt, them as any other portion of the American however large, to influence their political feel- population; and if it would not be deemed in ings or conduct; but he was not yet prepared vidious, he would say more. They have givto believe that human nature is so far sublim- en many and signal proofs of it. But this, he ated in the United States as to be exempt from said, is no argument in favor of the credit systhe influence of interest, passion, or ambition. tem-a system that would, in its ultimate tenHe said, that if any illustration were necessa- dencies, conflict with those national feelings ry to show the effect of a land debt on legisla- that now animate them-but on the contrary, it tion and local parties, an experiment had been is a persuasive one against it. Having now made in Kentucky, which furnished a very ap- the warm and cordial support of the West, it posite exemplification would not be wise to persist in a course of In that state there was a large body of the measures that must inevitably tend to stifle people indebted to the government for lands those moral impulses which prompted to it. purchased south of Green River, on credit. He would invigorate the arm, and distend the The debt had been due many years, but at heart of Western patriotism, and not paralyze every session of the legislature, indulgence had the one and contract the other, nor nerve the been granted since the debt became due. one and steel the other against the common inMembers had been elected to the legislature, terests. He would repeat, that he did not bewith instructions to obtain a further indulg-lieve that, if the land debt should increase to ence. A promise to procure it, or the belief any amount, the Western people would resist, that they would make all necessary efforts, by force, its collection, or desire the subversion was generally a “sine qua non" to their election, of the government to avoid its payment. But The Green River country had become very he asked, if it could be prudent, in a governstrong, and its indulgence had become a sort of ment depending for its existence and support party question-a political hobby. It is be- on public opinion, to make it the interest of the lieved that it has frequently been the subject of people to embarrass its regular operations, or to "legislative compromises"-the consideration resist its laws? And, said he, might not a for other laws, and other laws the consideration large debt, hanging over one moity of the for that. He believed that it is now consider-nation, create, throughout the whole, interests, ed almost a matter of course and of right. He and feelings, and conduct, not calculated to adhad no doubt that it had frequently been vance the happiness of the people, or strengthgranted against the free consent of the legisla- en constitutional authority?

ture, and had been the means of passing laws Every government that ever had to encounthat otherwise would not have been enacted. ter a large popular debt, had felt it to be a poThat state had not yet gotten the debt in; he tent adversary. Why did Lycugus and Sohad doubts whether it ever would-the pros-lon abolish all debt in the organization of their pect being no better now than it was many systems of government? Why did the Roman years ago. Plebians, after being oppressed by their PatriHe said, that he believed that the Green cian creditors, raise the standard of revolt, and River indulgence had been sometimes necessa-retreat to mons sacer? And why did the Patriry, and he did not know that it is not, even cians ultimately submit? And what were the yet, proper; but he had alluded to it to show progress and effects of the long struggle? If, the effect of a land debt on revenue, on party said he, the land debt be permitted to accumu elections and on legislation. If, said he, such late, and its enforcement be attempted, the West have been the fate and effects of a Green Riv- may not resist; it may not murmur; it may not er land debt in Kentucky, what must be the evince sensation, even; but the debt might not consequences in the United States of a Western be collected, and he did not wish to see the debt? Are the citizens south and north of experiment tried. There is no necessity to

make any experiment on the temper of the the objections that had been urged to the subWest. Western freemen would never willing-stitution of cash for credit. And in this it is ly "give up the ship." They would never se- singularly and completely successful. cede, unless disfranchised by those who ought He thought that it would be fair to conclude to be their friends; and, if they ever should that the bill ought to pass. That it ought, retreat to the sacred mountain, he hoped there there could be no doubt, unless objections would be one Menenius and one Valerius could be urged to it more formidable than those among them, who would be able to rally them to which the existing law is liable, or arguagain under the standard of the Union. ments against it stronger than those which were pressed against the latter.

But it could not be the interest of the United States to persist in the system which could produce any consequences which it is the duty of every enlightened and patriotic statesman to prevent a system that would engender discord and party feuds, and excite jealousies and discontent, and perhaps insubordination.

He said he had heard only two objections to the proposed system. 1st. That it would oppress the poor man, by giving the capitalist and speculator an unreasonable and unjust advantage over him. 2nd. That it would retard the population and diminish the influence of the Every consideration which could operate on Western country. He believed that no other his mind, he said, strengthened his conviction objections that are even plausible had been or that the credit system could not be executed, could be made, and these he considered by no or, if executed, that it would do much mis-means formidable. He thought that a very chief. In its execution, it would defeat some slight examination would be sufficient to show of the ends for which it was established; and that they are both evanescent. He expected he thought it required no argument to show results from the cash system, in its operations that a system, whose operations are incompat-on the poor, the rich, and the Western counible with its designs, and subversive of the try, the opposite of those apprehended by its first purposes for which a government was in- opposers, and which he should endeavor briefstituted, and which counteracts the policy of ly to exhibit, in the course of the notice he wise legislation, ought to be abolished. That should take of the objections. the credit system is such an one, he had en- But it should not, said Mr. Robertson, esdeavored to show. It ought, therefore, he cape notice, that if the objections are in themthought, to be repealed, if one less exception-selves true, they constitute no sufficient arguable could be substituted. He thought the bill under consideration furnished such an It remained, therefore, for him to offer some reasons to show that the mode proposed is better than that in operation.

one.

ment to prevent the passage of the bill; for, if the interests of the government and of the body of the people require its passage, it would be unreasonable to demand or permit its rejection, merely because a particular class of the Mr. Robertson said, if he had been success- community or district of country might be inful in his attempt to prove that the credit sys-jured by it. Otherwise, all legislation would tem is defective, because it is a credit system, not only be nugatory, but unjust; because it would be unnecessary to consume time by an every general law, however much it may proeffort to show that the cash system will be mote the interests of the majority, must be inpreferable, so far, because it will be a cash compatible with some individual rights or inSystem. As the strongest general considera-terests in society! Therefore, the political tions which, in his opinion, conduced to show axiom-that private interests should be sacrithe superiority of the cash over the credit sys-ficed on the altar of the public good-would tem had already been anticipated in his en-be a sufficient answer to the objections, if they deavor to exhibit some objections to credit in the foregoing part of his argument, he would not reiterate them. If he had shown the defectiveness of credit, it would necessarily follow that the proposed system is, quo ad hoc, preferable.

Upon that ground he was willing to rest the comparative merits of the two systems, so far as it might depend on the two leading and characteristic features of credit ond cash. These are so important and controlling, that a comparison of the more minute traits would be unnecessary; because, whatever might be its results, they could have no influence in the decision. But, if such a comparison could be at all material, he was sure it would result in showing the superiority of the proposed over the existing system, in every feature in which they differ.

The principal of these, in addition to credit and cash, is the minimum quantity of land and of price. The reduction of each in the bill under consideration is intended to remove

were founded upon correct hypotheses.

But, he said, if it were material to take more particular notice of the objections, he thought it was as nearly demonstrable as any moral or political proposition, from its nature, could be, that the cash system would not only diminish and embarrass speculation, but promote the interests of the poor, and the permanent and substantial welfare of the Western country.

He believed that no other system would tend more to those results, unless it should be one by which the public lands should be gratuitously distributed; and, for such an one, he was unwilling to believe that there would be any serious advocates. If there were any such, he would recommend to them the immediate abrogation of the credit system, and the substitution of an Agrarian law.

But, said he, the public land being a common fund, and Congress being its depository, it is their duty to dispose of it in such a manner as to promote the common interest. They

are bound by their trust to sell it, and to those having removed his family many hundred who can pay for it. And he thought it could miles, and improved land which he considered not be matter of complaint that Congress, and his own, either the hungry speculator may not any particular class of private individuals, take it from him, or the humanity of the govshould prescribe the terms of sale, and that ernment must interpose. And if he should die such terms should be offered as would pro- before he shall have made complete payment, duce the most general good. Neither the poor he leaves his helpless family in a strange and nor the rich have any right to complain, if foreign land, without a home. credit should be refused. If they are unwilling to purchase the public lands on the terms proposed, they will retain their money, and the public its lands, and no injury is done to

either.

But the credit system induces the speculators, as well as others, to bid a higher price at the sales than would be given in cash, and frequently more than the value of the land. Hence the poor man, with his eighty dollars, is almost entirely excluded from the sales. He is afraid or unable to compete with the rich man, or with the speculator. The consequence is, that the rich and adventurous monopolize the best land, and leave only the refuse to the other class.

By the poor, he said, he understood, as regards the argument, not that class of society who are in a state of pauperism, but those who are, comparatively, in a state of mediocrity, and are unable to purchase land for any other purpose than to occupy it. Under the credit system, a man who has no money cannot pur- The speculator buys as much land as he chase; to be able to buy public lands he must can make the first payment for, under the have funds, and as much as will be required expectation of being able, before the expiraby the cash system. Gentlemen, he said, had tion of five years, to sell it for a higher price. argued against the bill as if they believed that, He has, by law, five years within which to under the credit system, a poor man, without make this experiment, and as much longer as money, could purchase a home; and that, there- he can prevail upon Congress to indulge him; fore, he will be excluded by the bill from all hence, it so often happens that the first is the participation in the purchases of public lands. last payment, and that indulgence becomes so But he is already excluded. Who can pur- necessary and so frequent, and that the land chase now, that may not buy, and as easily, revenue fails. If the purchaser for speculaunder the cash system? Who will be excluded? tion can, while the government will indulge Not the man without money; he cannot pur-him, sell the land to a man who wants a home, chase now. Not the man who is now barely but was not able to bid against him at the pubable to pay the first instalment for one hun-lic sale, he will sell on a long credit, at a dred and sixty acres, at the minimum price, higher price than he promised-a much highfor he would proceed to show that the same individual might purchase, with more certainty and more to his advantage, under the proposed system.

Under the existing law, a man cannot purchase for himself a home, even if there were no competition, unless he be able to advance eighty dollars; and if he be a prudent man, he will not purchase at all, if that eighty dollars be the whole amount of his pecuniary resources; for, before he can procure a title, he must pay two hundred and forty dollars more, in three installments, or forfeit his land, with his 80 dollars advanced, should he be unable to make punctual payment of the whole price. If the credit should tempt him to make the purchase, under the expectation of making the money to discharge the debt he incurs, or of indulgence if he should fail, he subjects himself to all loss and embarrassment that may result from accident or from the fluctuation and depreciation of the currency, and places himself in the power of the usurer, the speculator, and the government. The land would not be his, and he could not be considered an independent citizen in the sterling import of those words. The little pittance he may, by industry and economy, be able to save, he cannot consider his own until he shall have paid for his land; the land is not his until he can get a patent. He may be dependent on the capitalist for money to procure the title and save his home from forfeiture, or must supplicate the indulgence of Congress; and, at last, after

er price-and by transferring his certificate, will interpose the poor man between himself and the government, with a liability to pay the remaining installments, with all the accumulation of interest, and with all other liabil ties incident to the credit. If he cannot sell for more than he promised to give, he repeats his application to Congress for indulgence, and they continue to grant it. But, if it should be refused, and the land forfeited, the adventurer will only have lost the amount of the first payment which he had advanced.

What better terms can the speculator, said he, desire? What can more encourage speculation, or oppress the poor and honest man, than the credit system? It increases the facilities and inducements to speculation; it increases the means and number of speculators. This is observed every day. Alabama speaks a language that cannot be misunderstood$70 an acre promised, never to be paid!

But, said Mr. Robertson, the cash system now offered is better for the honest purchaser, not only because it would enable him to get land with more certainty and security, and better land, but because it would put it in his power to get it cheaper, for two reasons: The minimum is less; and 2nd, land will sell on a credit for a price higher than the cash value, by more than the interest of that value

1st.

Under the proposed system, a man can pur chase eighty acres of land, if he can pay one hundred dollars; he gets his patent, and has a home. He is an independent citizen, not in

the power of capitalists or the government, in plete the first insallment on that quantity. regard to his title. Even if credit would not Under the cash system he will be able to purenhance the price, it is, nevertheless, a fact chase only forty thousand acres. The same worthy of notice, that under the cash system, quantity of money, then, will purchase almost a purchaser can buy a home for only one-fifth three times as much land under the credit, as more than the fourth of the credit price, which it will under the cash system. The adfourth must be advanced. It is true, he will vantages of credit to the purposes of speculaonly get half the quantity, but he does not tion will give the same sum the power to purgive half the price, and the smallness of chase the full triple quantity. To purchase the tract is no objection, but a strong argu- one hundred thousand acres under the cash ment in favor of the proposed system, as it re- system, there will be required five men with gards the poor-for thereby a man will be en- $25,000 each. Under the credit system, it will abled to procure a home, who could not, or be purchased by two men with the same sum. ought not to attempt it now, and those who If credit did not increase the price, then two can purchase more than the minimum quanti- speculators can monopolize as much land unty will have the liberty to do so. der the credit system as five men under the But the best land is sold at the public sales cash system; and the same quantity of money to the highest bidder, and the credit would in circulation would, therefore, increase the cause it to sell for a higher price than it would number of speculators, and the extent of their for cash, by at least one-fifth. This is the dif-purchases, in the proportion of five to two, by ference between the price of eighty acres pur- allowing credit; and, as before stated, the ef chased under the cash system, and the fourth fect of credit would swell the number to the of the price of one hundred and sixty on cred-proportion of three to one. Can any one, said it. The consequence is, that a man will be he, fail to perceive the effect which credit has able, under the proposed system, to buy eighty in increasing the number and power of specuacres at public sale, for the amount of only lators, and thereby the power of their money? one-fourth of the price of one hundred and Will not the poor man have a greater number sixty on credit. In the one case, the pur- of competitors? Will there not be less land chaser has parted with a certain sum of money, left for him to purchase? And will not his and obtained in exchange a title to eighty chances of buying good land be diminished? acres of land; in the other, he has disbursed And would not the number of purchasers for the same sum, as one-fourth of the price of use be greatly diminished, and thereby the one hundred and sixty acres, to which he has population of the West be retarded? Under no title, and for which he cannot obtain a pat- the credit system, the capitalists can monopoent until he shall have paid the remaining lize, with the same sum, more land than they three-fourths. Which would the poor, the hon- could for cash, in the proportion of a hundred est, the free man prefer? Could there be any to forty. The capital, then, which would purhesitancy in the option? Would he not choose chase 100,000 acres on credit, would, on the the cash system? And would not the specula- cash payment, leave 60,000 acres unappropri tor, for the same reasons, prefer the credit sys- ated, which the settlers could purchase, without competition with the non-resident monied men. As to that part of the argument which assumes that, in a contest for a particular tract of land, an advantage is given to the rich over the poor man, by requiring cash, he said that the same objections would apply with equal force to credit. For if the poor man could not compete with the rich man, after he had gone in his bid to the extent of his funds, when the whole amount is to be advanced, he must be in the same predicament if only one-fourth of the amount be required. In the latter case, after he had been forced up by the capitalist to as much as he could pay the first installment of, he could bid no higher. But the objection, he said, would have much more force in it, if urged against the credit system; because, by requiring cash, the number of speculators is reduced, and most of their schemes and contrivances will be baffled.

tem?

But, said Mr. Robertson, it had been urged by the gentleman from Tennessee, (Mr. Jones) that, by requiring cash, too much power is given to money; that the capitalist will buy all the good land, because the poor man will be unable to bid against him beyond the small sum he may have. This argument, he said, was more plausible than sound, and had been already anticipated and answered. But the imposing manner in which it had been exhibed entitled it to a direct reply.

Money, said he, will have power as long as it is money. It is that which gives it value. Its power cannot be destroyed without destroying its value. But he felt sure that its influence in relation to the public land and its purchasers, will not be augmented, but greatly diminished, by the passage of the bill under consideration, in the reduction which it would effect in the number of speculators and in the If any further illustration on this subject extent of their purchases, in a ratio of at least were necessary, he said that the gentleman three to one, and in the reduction, in a corres- who made the objection had himself furnished pondent ratio of the number of other purchasers a very striking one. That gentleman had and the extent of their purchases. Under the said, that if the cash system should be adoptcredit system, a speculator, with fifty thousand ed, the United States would never collect the dollars, will, at the minimum price, purchase money due for land which had been sold, beone hundred thousand acres of land, the cause that system would depreciate the value amount of his money being sufficient to com- of the land for which the debt was contracted.

This argument, said he, is a "felo de se"-dound to the advantage of the West. If his it cuts its own throat. For why will the cash only object were the aggrandisement of the system tend to depreciate the land sold under West, he would vote for it. He believed that the credit system? It is because it gives more nothing which Congress could do by legislaadvantages to the purchaser-because it is a tion would more certainly promote the prosbetter system for the purchaser. This is the perity and independence of the West reason, and the only one. It does give more advantages to the purchaser; not the specula tor, but the man who may desire to purchase for his own use; it gives him more good land to make his choice in at a less price, with less competition, with more certainty, and less

embarrassment.

was known that he was in favor of the cash system, with anti-Western feelings and policy. He was as sensitive on that subject as on any other; but while he would not say he was imperturbable, he would say that such charges or insinuations, fulminated from the press or the stump, could not alter his opinion or his vote.

He was not to be driven from his purpose, or deterred from doing his duty by denunciation, or threats of defection of friends.

The member from Tennessee, (Mr. Jones,) had expressed astonishment that the Western members should differ in their opinion on this subject. He felt as much surprise at it as the gentleman could feel. He could not perceive how the apprehension could be entertained by a Western man, that the cash system would Mr. Robertson said, that every view of the injure the Western country. He was as much subject he could take helped to show that the devoted to Western interests as any of its repobjection to the cash system, which is founded resentatives. He claimed it as his duty to be on the assertion that it will not be advan-so. He had been charged, obliquely, since it tageous to the poor man, is indefensible, and that this system is strongly recommended by the advantages it will secure to all classes of purchasers, except the speculators. These could not be entirely put down; to frustrate them is only a secondary object. But, if it were a primary one, a more effective method than the cash system cauld not well be devised The only remaining topic, he said, is the effect that the cash system would produce in the Western country. He repeated, that its ef- He said he respected, as much as any repfect on the 'substantial interests of the West resentative should do, the deliberate and temwould be beneficent; but if it should be detri- perate voice of public sentiment. But he bemental, by checking population, he could not, lieved that public sentiment, in Kentucky, for that cause alone, vote against it. This ef- would be decidedly in favor of the cash sysfect could not change his opinion of duty, but tem, whenever understood and tried. Howevwould only tend to diminish his solicitude for er, he must say, that the only way to change the passage of the bill. He did not come here his vote would be to change his opinion. to legislate for any particular section of coun- Did his colleagues, he asked, suppose that try, or portion of the people of the Union, but they gave evidence of more attachment to the for the whole. The laws which his vote might | West by their votes than he felt? He hoped contribute to pass would operate on all; and, they would do him the justice to believe that therefore, it would be but right that the he was as much devoted to the West as any of interests of all should be consulted. As a citi-its citizens. Why should he not be? He had zen, he might delight to obey the dictates of his as great a stake beyond the mountains as any local feelings or personal wishes, but, as a leg-other man, and he was bound to the West by islator, he felt bound to submit his conduct to as many and as tender ties. Was it not the the guidance of other and higher considerations.

country of his birth-the home of "wife, children, and friends?" Did it not embosom all But, if he were at liberty to act on selfish that he held most dear? And did it not conprinciples to promote local interests, it would tain the sacred spot in which the relics of his be his first and paramount duty to look to his father reposed? He could yield to none in deown state, and to confine his views within her votion to its soil and its interests. He loved it periphery; for, if he represented, exclusively, not only instinctively, because it was his any local interest, it was that of Kentucky. birth-place and home, but rationally, because And if such, he said, were his condition, and it was the fairest portion of the globe. Its soil such his duty, and it were true that the cash is luxuriant, its chimate salubrious, its populalaw would check population, he would not tion virtuous and hospitable—its men are brave, hesitate to support the bill; he would hail its and its women chaste. Bound to him by such passage with acclamations of joy. For, what ties, and thus deserving his affection, he would would more promote the prosperity of Ken- never desert its cause. As long as he should tucky, than a system which would prevent continue in its service, he would be faithful to that efflux of money and of population which its interests. He would advocate and prohad already so much exhausted her, and which mote them, as far as might be consistent with was, to a great extent, the effect of the system the general welfare, and he believed he was in operation? So far as the cash system would doing it by supporting the cash bill; for he bediminish emigration and sales, it would tend lieved that the West never would attain the to diminish the drain of people and money from high destinies before it if the system of credit, Kentucky. But, he said, he was sure that the which had already so much embarrassed and law would not have any deleterious operation enfeebled it, should be continued. Why is it, on Western interests, by checking any popula- said he, that that country is now so much in tion or preventing any sales that would re-debt? Why is the balance of trade so much