The CHAIRMAN. As I understand the situation Mr. Russell did separate himself from the civil service when he joined your commission? Mr. BONNER. From the classified civil service; yes, sir.

Senator WHEELER. But technically you say he is in the civil service? Mr. BONNER. Yes, sir.

Senator DILL. Oh, well, the civil service claims everything. We passed a provision the other day to appoint engineers and take them out of the civil service, and now they claim they are in the civil service, although we have no such thing in the civil service. You know that they claim everything.

The CHAIRMAN. You may proceed, Mr. Bonner.

Mr. BONNER. Do you care to hear the rest of this?

Senator DILL. That is all there is to it. I do not think it is a justification for saying there is a case of perjury. I think it is a ridiculous claim.

Mr. BONNER. I should like to have this in the record. I do not care to read it all if you do not wish to hear it.

The CHAIRMAN. You may put them in the record, but we do not need to spend any more time discussing them. I think we understand the principle of the proposition.

(The balance of the statements handed in was as follows:)

In July last this ruling was brought to Mr. Russell's attention here, and also by Mr. Switzer, chief clerk and personnel officer at the Interstate Commerce Commission, who urged Mr. Russell to make refund. Mr. Russell had flatly

refused to do this.

Retirement-fund deductions have been made from Mr. Russell's salary by this commission beginning July 1, 1929.

Mr. Russell, in his present position, holds no classified civil-service status. The classified status which he obtained in the Interstate Commerce Commission stands suspended beginning July 1, 1929, and is of value to the extent only that should Mr. Russell becomes an applicant for a classified position of attorney— his former position, for example-he could be transferred to such position under the civil-service rules, whereupon his classified status would again become effective.

(Another memorandum:)

It will be recalled that the question whether Mr. Russell's appointment here should be made by transfer or not was discussed at a conference on or about June 25, 1929, in which Major Edgerton participated, and at which Mr. Russell restated his objection to the proposed transfer, and his intention, upon appointment as solicitor, of filing a claim against the Government for refund of the amounts previously deducted from his salary by the Interstate Commerce Commission for retirement-fund purposes, such action not being possible were he to be transferred.

It was explained to Mr. Russell at that time (as had been the case previously) that, in event he accepted original appointment in this commission it woud be necessary still to continue retirement-fund deductions, and that refund could not be made to him legally by the Interstate Commerce Commission under the retirement act as interpreted by the Attorney General. It was further explained to Mr. Russell that the then chairman of the commission (Mr. Good) would not be likely to approve his prosecuting such a lcaim while at the same time holding the position of solicitor, in which capacity his duties would be to represent the Government in transactions in which the Government has direct financial interest, that in so doing he would be in a false position; that such action on his part would be contrary to the policy of the commission.

Thereupon Mr. Russell stated in terms and made the positive promise that, in event he were appointed to the position of solicitor, he would not make nor urge any claim against the Government on account of these retirement-fund deductions (amounting to $654.18, with accrued interest) during his tenure of office in the Federal Power Commission. On this promise so given no further objection was made to his resigning from the Interstate Commerce Commission with a view to original appointment in the Federal Power Commission.

It appears that immediately afterwards he applied to the personnel officer, Interstate Commerce Commission, for statement of claim for the retirement-fund deductions; that that office questioned the propriety of the proceeding on at least two occasions, at first declining to make up the claim. Later, on or about July 6, 1929, on Mr. Russell's positive statement that it was optional with him whether he would or would not accept repayment of the deductions, and without special investigation, the personnel officer made up the claim, it was certified by the Interstate Commerce Commission, and was later paid for $722.06, on July 10, 1929. (Claim R-306039.)

In that claim Mr. Russell made affidavit to the statement that he was the identical person who was last employed as principal attorney in the Interstate Commerce Commission, at Washington, D. C., until June 30, 1929, when he became absolutely separated from the civil service of the United States because of resignation. This affidavit is dated July 6, 1929, on which date he had been six days on the pay roll of this commission, beginning July 1. No separation from the civil service of the United States had ever taken place.

Senator WHEELER. Who started the investigation against Russell? Who got Thieme to make that investigation?

Mr. BONNER. I asked Thieme to do that.
Senator WHEELER. You asked him to do it?

Mr. BONNER. Yes, sir. When we began to get these complaints that he was a dishonest debtor.

Senator WHEELER. That he was a dishonest debtor?

Mr. BONNER. Yes, sir.

Senator WHEELER. What do you mean by "a dishonest debtor"? Mr. BONNER. A man who does not pay his just bills. May I give you something on that?

Senator WHEELER. Oh, well. If you were to discharge everybody in the Government service who did not pay his bills, you would have a lot of people who would not be working for Uncle Sam to-day, postmasters as well as others, throughout the United States. I have been trying to get the Post Office Department to make some postmasters in Montana pay some of their just debts, but they have not done it yet, and notwithstanding the fact that there are judgments against some of them.

Senator DILL. Have you anything in the way of official action by this man Russell that you can tell us about? You have told us about his not paying his debts, and you have brought up the question of his right to take some money from the retirement fund. But have you any official action to show that Russell has been unfair to the Government?

Mr. BONNER. In respect to these government matters?

Senator DILL. Yes; so long as he has been in the Government service. Have you anything to show that he has been unfaithful to the Government or the people of the United States-has not been faithful to the Government service?

Mr. BONNER. I do not recall any right now. this evidence on the debt question?

Do you care to have

Senator DILL. No. It seems to me we have had enough on that. (Thereupon, the witness offered copies of 20 letters, notes, and memoranda on the debt question, which were not made a part of the record, and were returned to the witness.)

Mr. BONNER. There is a further point I should like to makeSenator WHEELER (interposing). Mr. Chairman, I feel that every Government official who is drawing down a salary from the Government ought to pay his just debts. I have had no patience with the

man who is drawing down salary from the Government, whether he be postmaster or other Federal employee, if he does not pay his honest and just debts, if it is possible for him to do so, unless there are some circumstances that make it impossible.

The CHAIRMAN. I can not understand the action of the Federal Power Commission in keeping Russell on the pay roll as long as they have if you have all the information you are offering to the committee What is the matter with it?

Mr. BONNER. I was just submitting it to explain the question that the Senator from Montana (Mr. Wheeler) asked me as to why I suggested that he be eliminated.

Senator WHEELER. I do not know why they should fire a man because of the fact that he has not paid his debts, because I do not think the Government has any right to make a man pay his debts regardless.

The CHAIRMAN. The Senator from Montana said he had been trying to get some postmasters up in his State removed because they did not pay their debts, as I understood him.

Senator WHEELER. No; I beg pardon, Mr. Chairman. I have not tried to get them removed. What I have taken up with the Post Office Department was the question to see if they could not get them to pay their debts, but I did not think they should remove them by reason of that situation. I have not asked for that action.

Senator DILL. I do not want to be understood as defending anybody for not paying his just debts. But I do not see why there should be a rule for firing a man from the Federal Power Commission because he does not pay his debts, when you leave so many other people in the Government service who do not pay their debts. If you are going to start firing people who do not pay their debts, let us apply it all the way along down the line, and not just fire a man who is fighting the big power companies.

Mr. BONNER. May I proceed?

Senator WHEELER. Yes; and no question was raised with reference to his not paying his debts until such time as he did take a position which was antagonistic to the power companies.

Mr. BONNER. Oh, no, sir. That had no connection to that matter at all. That was why I wanted to make this plain, because of the line of questioning the other day as to my attitude regarding his separation. I left the implication that there was some connection between it and the attitude he takes toward the power companies. That is not true at all.

Senator WHEELER. When did you start this investigation?
Mr. BONNER. When we began to get these complaints.

Senator WHEELER. When did you begin to get complaints from people in Montana whom he owed?

Mr. BONNER. Yes, sir; that was it. It began several months ago. Senator WHEELER. All right.

Mr. BONNER. May I proceed now, Mr. Chairman?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Go ahead.

Mr. BONNER. In reply to charges that my official actions may be sympathetic to the private power interests, I want to say to this committee without any qualification whatever that I owe no obligations to anyone but my official superiors and I am bound by no prejudices

except to see that all parties get justice and fair dealing under the law. There is no better index to a man's character than his past reputation. I invite the closest inspection of my record of many years in the public service and particularly that of the last seven years where I had a rather difficult assignment in the administration of the water-power work in California. Doubtless, most of you are aware that this has been a period of unparalleled development in that State until now practically a quarter of the country's hydroelectric energy is produced there. Doubtless, many of you are aware also that in California there exists the keenest rivalry between the municipal and private utilities. My duties brought me into extensive business relations with both, and I was privileged to have the confidence and respect not only of the utility company executives but also that of the officials of all the larger cities and municipal districts. If there is any doubt about the latter, I invite this committee to make the fullest inquiry on its own initiative. Along that line I should like to just read briefly from a few short letters which bear on that point. I may say that these letters came to me after my appointment as executive secretary and without any solicitation at all. This letter is from Mr. Albert Given, general manager-chief engineer of the Sacramento municipal utility district.

Senator WHEELER. I think you might just give us the names of the people and then put them in the record.

Mr. BONNER. I should like to read certain passages, if I may. The CHAIRMAN. You may do that, and then put the complete letters in the record.

Mr. BONNER. Mr. Givan says:

It was with a great deal of pleasure that I read in last night's paper of your appointment to succeed Mr. O. C. Merrill, secretary of the Federal Power Commission.

I think your appointment to the higher position has been due to the excellent work you have performed here on the Pacific coast, and I wish you much success in your new position.

We will be very sorry not to see you hereafter when it is necessary to confer with the Forest Service or the Federal Power Commission in San Francisco.

I have enjoyed the contact I have had with you and desire to thank you for the many courtesies that have been extended to me by yourself and your organization.

It is with regret that we see you leaving the Pacific coast but we are also glad to hear of your advancement in your chosen profession. With kindest personal regards, I wish to remain,

Yours very truly,

ALBERT GIVAN, General Manager-Chief Engineer.

Here is a letter from Mr. Scattergood, of the department of water and power, city of Los Angeles:

We are all pleased to note that your excellent services with the Forestry and Federal Power Commission are being recognized through your appointment to the position of executive secretary to the Federal Power Commission of Washington, D. C.

We wish to extend our hearty congratulations and to express the confidence that you will perform the duties of your office not only effectively but with a full degree of fairness to all who come before you and the commission.

Very truly yours,

97646-30-PT 2- -2

E. F. SCATTERGOOD,
Chief Electrical Engineer.

Here is a telegram from Edward Hyatt, State engineer.

The CHAIRMAN. If it is along the same line, just put it in the record.

Mr. BONNER. I think that will be all right, Mr. Chairman:
CALIF., June 12, 1929.

FRANK E. BONNER.

SACRAMENTO,

Secretary Power Commission, Washington, D. C.:

Congratulations on your appointment and acceptance as secretary of Power Commission. Commission itself is also to be commended upon its wise choice in selecting you for important position. Harmonious cooperation between State of California and Federal Power Commission in the future is of the greatest importance to California, and we are all most happy over assurance of continuation of effective cooperation and cordial relationship assured by your appointment. Would appreciate wire advising when you will return to California as have several matters would like to see you on personally, if possible. Extend warmest personal regards and wishes for the future.

EDWARD HYATT, State Engineer.

Here is another letter from Mr. S. B. Morris, chief engineer of the Pasadena water department.

The CHAIRMAN. That is a municipal water plant?

Mr. BONNER. Yes, sir. That is one of the largest in California. The CHAIRMAN. Just put it in the record if it is along the same line. Mr. BONNER. I should like to read this.

The CHAIRMAN. Why not put in if it is along the same line and let the committee read it?

Mr. BONNER. All right. It is as follows:

Mr. FRANK E. BONNER,

PASADENA, CALIF., June 13, 1929.

District Engineer United States Forest Service,

San Francisco, Calif.

DEAR MR. BONNER: I have just learned of your appointment as secretary of the Federal Power Commission. I wish to congratulate you and the Federal Power Commission on this new affiliation. In the years we have met on various engineering matters I have always found your work most thorough and conclusions well founded. The Federal Power Commission is indeed fortunate in your serving it in this important executive position.

I trust that we may get together from time to time officially and otherwise. Very cordially,

S. B. MORRIS, Chief Engineer Pasadena Water Department.

The last one is from Arthur P. Davis, chief engineer and general manager of the East Bay municipal utility district. I think Mr. Davis is a man who is probably well known to many members of this committee and whose impartial attitude on public questions can not be questioned:

Mr. F. E. BONNER,

OAKLAND, CALIF., May 20, 1929.

District Engineer United States Forestry Service,
San Francisco, Calif.

MY DEAR MR. BONNER: I have received your letter of May 15, 1929, and thank you very much for the kind and appreciative expressions which it conveys. It certainly is gratifying to have the commendation of one so capable and so thoroughly acquainted with our work.

I wish to acknowledge and emphasize the helpful cooperation which we have had from you and from your assistants in connection with the plans for the Mokelumne project. Your attitude has always been constructive and cooperative and has been very highly appreciated at all stages by all of those concerned. Please give my kindest regards to Mr. Kramer.

With kindest regards and best wishes, I remain,

ARTHUR P. DAVIS,

Chief Engineer and General Manager.