I really supposed that all things remained as they were, and that the South Carolina doctrine of internal improvements would be defended by the same eloquent voices and the same strong arms as formerly. In the lapse of 5 these six years, it is true, political associations had assumed a new aspect and new divisions. A strong party had arisen in the South hostile to the doctrine of internal improvements. Anti-consolidation was the flag under which this party fought; and its supporters inveighed 10 against internal improvements, much after the manner in which the honorable gentleman has now inveighed against them, as part and parcel of the system of consolidation. Whether this party arose in South Carolina itself, or in the neighborhood, is more than I know. I 15 think the latter. However that may have been, there were those found in South Carolina ready to make war upon it, and who did make intrepid war upon it. Names being regarded as things in such controversies, they bestowed on the anti-improvement gentlemen the appella20 tion of Radicals. Yes, Sir, the appellation of Radicals, as a term of distinction applicable and applied to those who denied the liberal doctrines of internal improvement, originated, according to the best of my recollection, somewhere between North Carolina and Georgia. Well, Sir, 25 these mischievous Radicals were to be put down, and the strong arm of South Carolina was stretched out to put them down. About this time, Sir, I returned to Congress. The battle with the Radicals had been fought, and our South Carolina champions of the doctrines of 30 internal improvement had nobly maintained their ground, and were understood to have achieved a victory. We looked upon them as conquerors. They had driven back the enemy with discomfiture, a thing, by the way, Sir, which is not always performed when it is promised. 35 A gentleman to whom I have already referred in this

and printed with a few introductory remarks upon solidation; in which, Sir, I think he quite consolida the arguments of his opponents, the Radicals, if to cr be to consolidate.

[Mr. Webster quotes passages from the speech claiming for "Republican" party of that time, the dominant party in South, and for the South Carolinian delegation in Cong led by Mr. Calhoun, the honor of originating the system policy of internal improvements.]

25 Such are the opinions, Sir, which were maintained South Carolina gentlemen in the House of Represe tives, on the subject of internal improvements, whe took my seat there as a member from Massachusetts 1823. But this is not all. We had a bill before us, passed it in that House, entitled, " An Act to procure necessary surveys, plans, and estimates upon the sub of roads and canals." It authorized the President cause surveys and estimates to be made of the route such roads and canals as he might deem of national portance in a commercial or military point of view for the transportation of the mail, and appropri: thirty thousand dollars out of the treasury to defray expense. This act, though preliminary in its nat covered the whole ground. It took for granted the plete power of internal improvement, as far as any its advocates had ever contended for it. Having pa the other House, the bill came up to the Senate, and

here considered and debated in April, 1824. The honor able member from South Carolina was a member of the Senate at that time. While the bill was under consideration here, a motion was made to add the following 5 proviso:

"Provided, That nothing herein contained shall be construed to affirm or admit a power in Congress, on their own authority, to make roads or canals within any of the States of the Union." The yeas and nays were 10 taken on this proviso, and the honorable member voted in the negative! The proviso failed.

26 A motion was then made to add this proviso; viz.,

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Provided, That the faith of the United States is hereby pledged, that no money shall ever be expended 15 for roads or canals, except it shall be among the several States, and in the same proportion as direct taxes are laid and assessed by the provisions of the Constitution." 27 The honorable member voted against this proviso also, and it failed. The bill was then put on its passage, and 20 the honorable member voted for it, and it passed, and became a law.

2 Now, it strikes me, Sir, that there is no maintaining these votes but upon the power of internal improvement, in its broadest sense. In truth, these bills for surveys 25 and estimates have always been considered as test questions; they show who is for and who against internal improvement. This law itself went the whole length, and assumed the full and complete power. The gentleman's votes sustained that power, in every form in which 30 the various propositions to amend presented it. He went

for the entire and unrestrained authority, without consulting the States, and without agreeing to any proportionate distribution. And now suffer me to remind you, Mr. President, that it is this very same power, thus sanc35 tioned in every form by the gentleman's own opinion,

that is so plain and manifest a usurpation that the State of South Carolina is supposed to be justified in refusing submission to any laws carrying the power into effect. Truly, Sir, is not this a little too hard? May we not crave some mercy, under favor and protection of the gen- 5 tleman's own authority? Admitting that a road, or a canal, must be written down flat usurpation as was ever committed, may we find no mitigation in our respect for his place and his vote, as one that knows the law? 29 The tariff, which South Carolina had an efficient hand 10 in establishing in 1816, and this asserted power of internal improvement, advanced by her in the same year, and, as we have seen, approved and sanctioned by her representatives in 1824- these two measures are the great grounds on which she is now thought to be justified in 15 breaking up the Union, if she sees fit to break it up! 30 I may now safely say, I think, that we have had the authority of leading and distinguished gentlemen from South Carolina in support of the doctrine of internal improvement. I repeat that, up to 1824, I, for one, fol- 20 lowed South Carolina; but when that star, in its ascension, veered off in an unexpected direction, I relied on its light no longer.

[Here the Vice-President said, "Does the chair understand the gentleman from Massachusetts to say that the person now 25 occupying the chair of the Senate has changed his opinions on the subject of internal improvements?"]

From nothing ever said to me, Sir, have I had reason to know of any change in the opinions of the person filling the chair of the Senate. If such change has taken 30 place, I regret it. I speak generally of the State of South Carolina. Individuals we know there are who hold opinions favorable to the power. An application for its exercise, in behalf of a public work in South Carolina

itself, is now pending, I believe, in the other House, presented by members from that State.

32 I have thus, Sir, perhaps not without some tediousness of detail, shown, if I am in error on the subject of inter5 nal improvement, how, and in what company, I fell into that error. If I am wrong, it is apparent who misled

me.

33 I go to other remarks of the honorable member; and I have to complain of an entire misapprehension of what 10 I said on the subject of the national debt, though I can hardly perceive how any one could misunderstand me. What I said was, not that I wished to put off the payment of the debt, but, on the contrary, that I had always voted for every measure for its reduction as uniformly 15 as the gentleman himself. He seems to claim the exclusive merit of a disposition to reduce the public charge. I do not allow it to him. As a debt, I was, I am, for paying it, because it is a charge on our finances and on the industry of the country. But I observed that I 20 thought I perceived a morbid fervor on that subject— an excessive anxiety to pay off the debt, not so much because it is a debt simply, as because, while it lasts, it furnishes one objection to disunion. It is, while it continues, a tie of common interest. I did not impute such 25 motives to the honorable member himself, but that there is such a feeling in existence I have not a particle of doubt. The most I said was, that if one effect of the debt was to strengthen our Union, that effect itself was not regretted by me, however much others might regret 30 it. The gentleman has not seen how to reply to this otherwise than by supposing me to have advanced the doctrine that a national debt is a national blessing. Others, I must hope, will find much less difficulty in understanding me. I distinctly and pointedly cautioned 35 the honorable member not to understand me as express