44 competent testimony, that he is a vagrant within cause him to labor on the public works, roads, V. PRESIDENT JOHNSON'S INTERVIEWS AND SPEECHES. 1865, April 15-Andrew Johnson qualified as President, Chief Justice Chase administering the oath of office. Remarks at an Interview with Citizens of Indi ana. 1865, April 21-A delegation was introduced by Governor O. P. Morton, to whose address President Johnson responded, stating that he did not desire to make any expression of his future policy more than he had already made, and adding: | reference to this diabolical and fiendish rebellion But in entering upon the discharge of the this that any man should be exonerated from | become numerous and powerful; for, in the the penalties and punishments of the crime of words of a former Senator of the United States, treason. The time has arrived when the Ameri- "When traitors become numerous enough, trea can people should understand what crime is, son becomes respectable." And I say that, after and that it should punished, and its penalties making treason odious, every Union man and enforced and inflicted. We say in our statutes the Government should be remunerated out of and courts that burglary is a crime, that murder the pockets of those who have inflicted this great is a crime, that arson is a crime, and that trea- suffering upon the country. But do not underson is a crime; and the Constitution of United stand me as saying this in a spirit of anger, for, States, and the laws of the United States, say if I understand my own heart, the reverse is the that treason shall consist in levying war against case; and, while say that the penalties of the them, and giving their enemies aid and comfort. law, in a stern and inflexible manner, should be I have just remarked that burglary is a crime executed upon conscious, intelligent, and influand has its penalties, that murder is a crime and ential traitors--the leaders, who have deceived has its penalties, and so on through the long thousands upon thousands of laboring men who catalogue of crime. have been drawn into this rebellion-and while I say, as to the leaders, punishment, I also say leniency, conciliation, and amnesty to the thousands whom they have misled and deceived; and in reference to this, as I remarked, I might have adopted your speech as my own. To illustrate by a sad event, which is before the minds of all, and which has draped this land in mourning. Who is there here who would say if the assassin who has stricken from our midst one beloved and revered by all, and passed him from time to eternity, to that bourne whence no traveler returns, who, I repeat, who, bere would say that the assassin, if taken, should not suffer the penalties of his crime? Then, if you take the life of one individual for the murder of another, and believe that his property should be confiscated, what should be done with one who is trying to assassinate this nation? What should be done with him or them who have attempted the life of a nation composed of thirty millions of people? We were living at a time when the public mind had almost become oblivious of what treason is. The time has arrived, my countrymen, when the American people should be educated and taught what is crime, and that treason is a crime, and the highest crime known to the law and the Constitution. Yes, treason against a State, treason against all the States, treason against the Government of the United States, is the highest crime that can be committed, and those engaged in it should suffer all its penalties. I know it is very easy to get up sympathy and sentiment where human blood is about to be shed, easy to acquire a reputation for leniency and kindness, but sometimes its effects and practical operations produce misery and woe to the mass of mankind. Sometimes an individual whom the law has overtaken, and on whom its penalties are about to be imposed, will appeal and plead with the Executive for the exercise of clemency. But before its exercise he ought to ascertain what is mercy and what is not mercy. It is a very important question, and one which deserves the consideration of those who moralize upon crime and the morals of a nation, whether in some cases action should not be suspended here and transferred to Him who controls all. There, if innocence has been invaded, if wrong has been done, the Controller and Giver of all good, one of whose attributes is mercy, will set it right. It is not promulging anything that I have not heretofore said to say that traitors must be made odious, that treason must be made odious, that traitors must be punished and impoverished. They must not only be punished, but their social power must be destroyed. If not, they will still maintain an ascendency, and may again As my honorable friend knows, I long since took the ground that this Government was gent upon a great mission among the nations of the earth; that it had a great work to perform, nd that in starting it was started in perpetuity. Look back for one single moment to the Articles of Confederation, and then come down to 1787, when the Constitution was formed-what do you find? That we, "the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect government," &c. Provision is made for the admission of new States, to be added to old ones embraced within the Union. Now, turn to the Constitution: we find that amendments may be made, by a recommendation of two thirds of the members of Congress, if ratified by three fourths of the States. Provision is made for the admission of new States; no provision is made for the secession of old ones. The instrument was made to be good in perpetuity, and you can take hold of it, not to break up the Government, but to go on perfecting it more and more as it runs down the stream of time. We find the Government composed of integral parts. An individual is an integer, and a number of individuals form a State; and a State itself is an integer, and the various States form the Union, which is itself an integer-they all making up the Government of the United States. Now we come to the point of my argument, so far as concerns the perpetuity of the Government. We have seen that the Government is composed of parts, each essential to the whole, and the whole essential to each part. Now, if an individual (part of a State) declare war against the whole, in violation of the Constitution, he, as a citizen, has violated the law, and is responsible for the act as an individual. There may be more than one individual, it may go on till they become parts of States. Sometime the rebellion may go on increasing in numbers till the State machinery is overturned, and the country becomes like a man that is paralyzed on one side. But we find in the Constitution a great panacea provided. It provides that the United States (that is, the great integer) shall guarantee to each State (the integers composing the whole) in this Union a republican form of government. Yes, if rebellion had been rampant, and set aside the machinery of a State for a time, there stands the great law to remove the paralysis and revitalize it, and put it on its feet again. When we come to understand our system of government, though it be complex, we see how beautifully one part moves in harmony with another; then we see our Government is to be a perpetuity, there being no provision for pulling it down, the Union being its vitalizing power, imparting life to the whole of the States that move around it like planets round the sun, receiving thence light and heat and motion. Upon this idea of destroying States, my position has been heretofore well known, and I see no cause to change it now, and I am glad to hear its reiteration on the present occasion. Some are satisfied with the idea that States are to be lost in territorial and other divisions; are to lose their character as States. But their life breath has been only suspended, and it is a high constitutional obligation we have to secure each of these States in the possession and enjoyment of a republican form of government. A State may be in the Government with a peculiar institution, and by the operation of rebellion lose that feature; but it was a State when it went into rebellion, and when it comes out without the institution it is still a state. I hold it as a solemn obligation in any one of these States where the rebel armies have been beaten back or expelled-I care not how small the number of Union men, if enough to man the ship of State, I hold it, I say, a high duty to protect and secure to them a republican form of government. This is no new opinion. It is expressed in conformity with my understanding of the genius and theory of our Government. Then in adjusting and putting the Government upon its legs again, I think the progress of this work must pass into the hands of its friends. If a State is to be nursed until it again gets strength, it must be nursed by its friends, not smothered by its enemies.* * On this and other points, President Johnson declared himself in his Nashville speech of June 9, 1864, from which these extracts are taken: The question is, whether man is capable of self-government? I hold with Jefferson that government was made for the convenience of man, and not man for government. The laws and constitutions were designed as instruments to promote his welfare. And hence, from this principle, I conclude that governments can and ought to be changed and amended to conform to the wants, to the requirements and progress of the people, and the enlightened spirit of the age. Now, if any of your secessionists have lost faith in men's capability for self-government, and feel unfit for the exercise of this great right, go straight to rebeldom, take Jeff. Davis, Beauregard, and Bragg for your masters, and put their collars on your necks. And let me say that now is the time to secure these fundamental principles, while the land is rent with anarchy and upheaves with the throes of a mighty revolution. While society is in this disordered state, and we are seeking security, let us fix the foundation of the Government on principles of eternal justice which will endure Now, permit me to remark, that while I have opposed dissolution and disintegration on the one for all time. There is an element in our midst who are for perpetuating the institution of slavery. Let me say to you, Tennesseeans and men from the Northern States, that slavery is dead. It was not murdered by me. I told you long ago what the result would be if you endeavored to go out of the Union to save slavery; and that the result would be bloodshed, rapine devastated fields, plundered villages and cities and, therefore, I urged you to remain in the Union. In trying to save slavery, you killed it and lost your own freedom. Your slavery is dead, but I did not murder it. As Macbeth said to Banquo's bloody ghost: "Never shake thy gory locks at me; Thou canst not say I did it."" Slavery is dead, and you must pardon me if I do not mourn over its dead body; you can bury it out of sight. In restoring the State, leave out that disturbing and dangerous element and use only those parts of the machinery which will move in harmony. But in calling a convention to restore the State, who shall restore and re-establish it? Shall the man who gave his influence and his means to destroy the Government? Is he to participate in the great work of reorganization? Shall he who brought this misery upon the State be permitted to control its destinies? If this be so, then all this precious blood of our brave soldiers and officers so freely poured out will have been wantonly spilled. All the glori ous victories won by our noble armies will go for nought, and all the battle-fields which have been sown with dead heroes during the rebellion will have been made memorable in vain. Why all this carnage and devastation? It was that treason might be put down and traitors punished. Therefore I say that traitors should take a back seat in the work of restoration. If there be but five thousand men in Tennessee loyal to the Constitution, loyal to freedom, loyal to justice, these true and faithful men should control the work of reorganization and reformation absolutely. I say that the traitor has ceased to be a citizen, and in joining the rebellion has become a public enemy. He forfeited his right to vote with loyal men when he renounced his citizenship and sought to destroy our Government. We say to the most honest and industrious foreigner who comes from England or Germany to dwell among us, and to add to the wealth of the country, "Before you can be a citizen you must stay here for five years." If we are so cautious about foreigners, who vol untarily renounce their homes to live with us what should we say to the traitor, who, although born and reared among us, has raised a parrici. dal hand against the Government which always protected him? My judgment is that he should be subjected to a severe ordeal before he is restored to citizenship. A fellow who takes the oath merely to save his property, and denies the validity of the oath, is a perjured man, and not to be trusted. Before these repenting rebels can be trusted, let them bring forth the fruits of repentance. He who helped to make all these hand, on the other I am equally opposed to con- | people. I am free to say to you that my highest solidation, or the centralization of power in the ambition was to please the people, for I believe hands of a few. Sir, all this has been extorted from me by the remarks you have offered, and as I have already remarked, I might have adopted your speech as my own. I have detained you longer than I expected, but Governor Morton is responsible for that. I scarcely know how to express my feeling in view of the kindness you have manifested on this occasion. Perhaps ought not to add what I am about to say, but human nature is human nature. Indiana first named me for the Vice Presidency, though it was unsolicited by me. Indeed, there is not a man can say that I ever approached him on the subject. My eyes were turned to my own State. If I could restore her, the measure of my ambition was complete. I thank the State of Indiana for the confidence and regard she manifested toward me, which has resulted in what is now before me, placing me in the position I now occupy. In conclusion, I will repeat that the vigor of my youth has been spent in advocating those great principles at the foundation of our Government, and, therefore, I have been by many denounced as a demagogue, I striving to please the that when I pleased them, I was pretty nearly right, and being in the right, I didn't care who assailed me. But I was going to say I have always advocated the principle, that government was made for man-not man for goverment; even as the good Book says that the Sabbath was made for man-not man for the Sabbath. So far as in me lies, those principles shall be carried out; and, in conclusion, I tender you my profound and sincere thanks for your respect and support in the performance of the arduous duties now devolving upon me. To Virginia Refugees. April 24, 1865-A large number of Southern refugees had an interview, Hon. John C. Underwood making an address; to which the President replied: to son with It is hardly necessary for me on this occasion nection with this nefarious rebellion beat in unithat say my sympathies and impulses in conthis bitter ordeal, and who participated in it to yours. Those who have passed through great extent, are more competent, as I think, to judge and determine the true policy which should be pursued. [Applause.] I have but little to say on this question in response to what has been said. It enunciates and expresses my own feelings to the fullest extent, and in much better language than I can at the present moment summon to my aid. widows and orphans, who draped the streets of Nashville in mourning, should suffer for his great crime. The work is in our own hands. We can destroy this rebellion. With Grant thundering on the Potomac before Richmond, and Sherman and Thomas on their march toward Atlanta, the The most that I can say is, that entering upon day will ere long be ours. Will any madly per- the duties that have devolved upon me under sist in rebellion? Suppose that an equal num- circumstances that are perilous and responsible, ber be slain in every battle, it is plain that the and being thrown into the position I now occupy result must be the utter extermination of the unexpectedly, in consequence of the sad eventrebels. Ah! these rebel leaders have a strong the heinous assassination which has taken placepersonal reason for holding out to save their in view of all that is before me, and the circumnecks from the halter; and these leaders must stances that surround me, I cannot but feel that feel the power of the Government! Treason your encouragement and kindness are peculiarly must be made odious, and traitors must be pun-acceptable and appropriate. ished and impoverished. Their great planta- I do not think you have been familiar with tions must be seized, and divided into small my course, if you who are from the South deem it farms, and sold to honest, industrious men. The necessary for me to make any professions as to day for protecting the lands and negroes of these the future on this occasion, or to express what authors of the rebellion is past. It is high time my course will be upon questions that may arise. it was. I have been most deeply pained at some If my past life is no indication of what my things which have come under my observation. future will be, my professions were both worthWe get men in command who, under the influ-less and empty; and in returning you my sinence of flattery, fawning, and caressing, grant protection to the rich traitor, while the poor Union man stands out in the cold, often unable to get a receipt or a voucher for his losses. As far as clemency and mercy are concerned, [Cries of "That's so!" from all parts of the and the proper exercise of the pardoning power, crowd.] The traitor can get lucrative contracts, I think I understand the nature and character while the loyal man is pushed aside, unable to of the latter. In the exercise of clemency and obtain a recognition of his just stripes and shoul- mercy, that pardoning power should be exerder-straps. I want them all to hear what I say. cised with caution. I do not give utterance to I have been on a gridiron for two years at the my opinions on this point in any spirit of resight of these abuses. I blame not the Govern- venge or unkind feelings. Mercy and clemency ment for these things, which are the work of have been pretty large ingredients in my com weak or faithless subordinates. Wrongs will be pound. Having been the executive of a State, committed under every form of government and and thereby placed in a position in which it was every administration. For myself, I mean to necessary to exercise clemency and mercy, I have stand by the Government till the flag of the been charged with going too far, being too leniUnion shall wave over every city, town, hill-ent; and I have become satisfied that mercy top, and cross-roads, in its full power and ma- without justice is a crime, and that when mercy jesty. and clemency are exercised by the executive it cere thanks for this encouragement and sympathy, I can only reiterate what I have said before, and, in part, what has just been read. should always be done in view of justice, and in | and comfort. With this definition it requires the that manner alone is properly exercised that great prerogative. exercise of no great acumen to ascertain who are traitors. It requires no great perception to tell us who have levied war against the United States, nor does it require any great stretch of reasoning to ascertain who has given aid to the enemies of the United States. And when the Government of the United States does ascertain who are the conscious and intelligent traitors, the penalty and the forfeit should be paid. The time has come, as you who have had to drink this bitter cup are fully aware, when the American people should be made to understand the true nature of crime. Of crime, generally, our people have a high understanding, as well as of the necessity for its punishment; but in the catalogue of crimes there is one-and that the highest known to the law and the Constitution- I know how to appreciate the condition of of which, since the days of Jefferson and Aaron being driven from one's home. I can sympaBurr, they have become oblivious; that is TREA-thize with him whose all has been taken from SON. Indeed, one who has become distinguished in treason and in this rebellion said, that "when traitors become numerous enough, treason becomes respectable," and to become a traitor was to constitute a portion of the aristocracy of the country. God protect the people against such an aristocracy. Yes, the time has come when the people should be taught to understand the length and breath, the depth and height of treason. An individual occupying the highest position among us was lifted to that position by the free offering of the American people-the highest position on the habitable globe. This man we have seen, revered, and loved; one who, if he erred at all, erred ever on the side of clemency and mercy; that man we have seen treason strike through a fitting instrument; and we have beheld him fall like a bright star falling from its sphere. Now, there is none but would say, if the question came up, what should be done with the individual who assassinated the chief magistrate of a nation-he is but a man, one man after all; but if asked what should be done with the assassin, what should be the penalty, the forfeit exacted, I know what response dwells in every bosom. It is, that he should pay the forfeit with his life. And hence we see that these are times when mercy and clemency without justice become a crime. The one should temper the other and bring about the proper mean. And if we would say this when the case was the simple murder of one man by his fellow man, what should we say when asked what shall be done with him, or them, or those who have raised impious hands to Sake away the life of a nation composed of thirty millions of people? What would be the reply to that question? But while in mercy we remem ber justice, in the language that has been uttered, I say justice toward the leaders, the conscious leaders; but I also say amnesty, conciliation, clemency, and mercy to the thousands of our countrymen who you and I know have been deceived or driven into this infernal rebellion. And so I return to where I started from, and again repeat, that it is time our people were taught to know that treason is a crime-not a mere political difference, not a mere contest between two parties, in which one succeeded, and the other has simply failed. They must know it is treason, for if they had succeeded, the life of the nation would have been reft from it, the Union would have been destroyed. Surely the Constitution sufficiently defines treason. It consists in levying war against the United States, and in giving their enemies aid him; with him who has been denied the place that gave his children birth; but let us, withal, in the restoration of true government, proceed temperately and dispassionately, and hope and pray that the time will come, as I believe, when we all can return and remain at our homes, and treason and traitors be driven from our land; [applause;] when again law and order shall reign, and the banner of our country be unfurled over every inch of territory within the area of the United States. In conclusion, let me thank you most pro foundly for this encouragement and manifestation of your regard and respect, and assure you that I can give no greater assurance regarding the settlement of this question than that I intend to discharge my duty, and in that way which shall in the earliest possible hour bring back peace to our distracted country, and hope the time is not far distant when our people can all return to their homes and firesides, and resumo their various avocations. Interview with George L. Stearns. WASHINGTON, D. C., Oct. 3, 1865, 114, A. M. I have just returned from an interview with President Johnson, in which he talked for an hour on the process of reconstruction of rebel States. His manner was as cordial, and his conversation as free as in 1863, when I met him daily in Nashville. His countenance is healthier, even more so than when I first knew him. I remarked that the people of the North were anxious that the process of reconstruction should be thorough, and they wished to support him in the arduous work, but their ideas were confused by the conflicting reports constantly circulated, and especially by the present position of the Democratic party. It is industriously circulated in the Democratic clubs that he was going over to them. He laughingly replied. Major, have you never known a man who for many years had differed from your views because you were in advance of him, claim them as his own when he came up to your standpoint?" I replied, "I have, often." He said, "So have I," and went on: "The Democratic party finds its old position untenable, and is coming to ours; if it has come up to our position, I am glad of it. You and I need no preparation for this conversation; we can talk freely on this subject, for the thoughts are familiar to us; we can be perfectly frank with each other." He then commenced with saying that the States are in the Union, which is whole and indivisible. |