H. OF R. Imprisonment for Debt-The Mint. Ordered, That the further consideration of the said bill be postponed until to-morrow. A memorial of sundry merchants of the city of Philadelphia was presented to the House and read, praying relief in the case of injuries inflicted on the commerce of the memorialists, during the late European war, by the predatory cruisers belonging to the French Republic.-Referred to the committee appointed on the fifth instant, to whom was referred a memorial of sundry merchants of the city of Baltimore, to the same effect. FEBRUARY, 1802. or's property, and to inflict some penalty or pro vide some remedy instead of imprisonment for life. Mr. RUTLEDGE was opposed to imprisonment for life, where the debtor gave up his whole property, and was unable to pay all. He had known, in South Carolina, revenue officers imprisoned for debts due the United States, who had been many years confined; men of good character, men of honesty, but who, through ignorance of transacting certain business, or their misfortunes, were unable to pay. He knew an individual of that State who had applied to that House for relief; his petition was referred to the Secretary of the Treasury; the Secretary felt a delicacy in interfering in the case; the petition was not granted ; and the person had now been in jail five years, though his inability to pay did not arise from havmisfortune; for he was acknowledged to be a man of good character. He was averse to such cruelty. Hence the necessity of making some provision that the innocent, when distinctions can, as in most instances, be made, may not be subjected to cruel punishments, that were of no benefit to the United States. Why send him to jail? Why lock him up there? Why prevent his being able to support his family? A memorial of sundry citizens of the city and county of Philadelphia, in the State of Pennsylvania, was presented to the House and read, praying a repeal of the act of Congress, passed on the thirteenth of February, one thousand eight hundred and one, entitled "An act to provide for the more convenient organization of the Courts of the United States," for certain reasons therein specified.-ing wasted the public money, or from aught but Referred to the Committee of the whole House to whom was committed, on the fourth instant the bill sent from the Senate, entitled "An act to repeal certain acts respecting the organization of the Courts of the United States, and for other purposes." Mr. SOUTHARD, from the committee to whom was referred, on the eleventh ultimo, the petition of Thomas Bruff, of Joseph, in the State of Maryland. relative to the principles of perpetual motion, which, as the petitioner suggests, have been discovered by him, made a report; which was read and considered: Whereupon, Resolved, That the petitioner have leave to withdraw his petition. Mr. D. HEISTER, from the committee appointed on the 22d of December last, presented a bill supplementary to an act, entitled "An act more effectually to provide for the national defence, by establishing an uniform Militia throughout the United States," passed the eighth of May, one thousand seven hundred and ninety-two; which was read twice and committed to a Committee of the whole House on Thursday next. Mr. MITCHILL, from the committee to whom was referred, on the thirty-first of December last, so much of the Message of the President of the United States as relates to "naval preparations, and the establishment of sites for naval purposes,' made a report; which was read, and ordered to be committed to a Committee of the whole House on Wednesday next. Mr. SMILIE.-It is the case that when you exceed in making your laws what is reasonable. those laws, as the present concerning debtors to the United States, will not be executed. The present law cannot be put in execution. He wished some sufficient penalty. This was not the proper stage to give his sentiments; were it, he should say, he thought the defaulter ought to give up the property, and perhaps be imprisoned a period. But the Legislature are not the proper judges, and ought not to interfere; the Legisla tive and Judicial departments should be kept separate. We want some uniform law, operating on all according to their demerit. The subject was postponed till to-morrow. The House, resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the motion referred to them, on the first instant, viz: Resolved, That so much of the acts, the one entitled "An act establishing a Mint and regulating the coins of the United States," the other an act, entitled "An act supplementary to the act establishing a Mint, and regu lating the coins of the United States," as relate to the establishing a Mint, ought to be repealed. Mr. RANDOLPH, from the Committee of Ways and Means, to whom was recommitted, on the twenty-second ultimo, the bill to amend an act, Mr. GILES said, he had seen a bill making ap entitled "An act to lay and collect a direct tax," reported an amendatory bill to amend an act, en-propriation for continuing the Mint Establishtitled "An act to lay and collect a direct tax within the United States;" which was read twice and committed to a Committee of the whole House on Wednesday next. IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT. ment; he knew it was questionable whether or not it was intended to repeal the law creating that establishment; his wish was to discover the opinions of the House on the subject. He had ever been opposed to the establishment from the be ginning; he thought we ought to have no establishment the expenses of which surpassed the profit-that is, he would have no sinecures, or persons receiving money without rendering ade Mr. SMILIE called up his resolution that a committee be appointed to revise the laws respecting imprisonment for debts due the United States. His objects, he said, were two; to secure the debt-quate services. Mr. G. here showed the deficiencies of the Mint Establishment. He further observed that the gold and silver coined in the Mint were better than the coins of other countries, and were much of them used by jewellers and silversmiths. The machinery of the Mint, he was informed, wanted repair; he had also been informed that the machinery might be disposed of to advantage to the Bank of the United States; and, perhaps, that bank might coin for us, and save much expense. On the whole, he was firm in the opinion that it was a needless expense, and ought not to be continued. Mr. DANA. If the standard coin is better than that of other countries, we have only to make the proper alterations. The question is, whether we shall have one of our own? By not having one of our own, we shall, as we have been before, be exposed to many disadvantages, to many frauds from the circulation of base metal, especially copper. Mr. LOWNDES.-We proceed with too much precipitation. This establishment was made after mature deliberation, let it not be abolished without hesitation. We ought to make inquiry; we want information on the subject. If, after such information on the subject is received as will enable us to vote understandingly, it shall appear improper to continue the establishment, I shall be as forward as any one in repealing the law by which it was made. I am not in favor of sinecures, more than the gentleman from Virginia, or any other member. I will go as far in preventing sinecures, or the payment of money where services adequate are not rendered, as any man. I would not stop here; where such sinecures appear, I will join to abolish them. The duties of the Secretary of War, especially since the late reduction of the Army, are now very inconsiderable; the duties of the Secretary of the Navy and those of the Secretary of War can easily be performed by one of ficer. [Called to order.] I wish delay till we shall receive the necessary information on the subject. Mr. S. SMITH said, he believed the books now in the House, and the last report of the Director of the Mint, furnished all the information necessary. Mr. LOWNDES observed, that there has been no report this session. A report appears the more necessary at this time, when the abolishment is contemplated. Mr. GILES said, by the report of last session we have or can receive information sufficient. By that and other reports it will be found that the establishment is expensive, is unprofitable, and will probably continue so. I cau see no need for revising. I am for abolishing altogether. Perhaps the coinage may be done by the Bank of the United States, if it be necessary that it should be done. I can see no propriety in continuing the establishment. The gentleman from Connecticut speaks of uniting the office of Secretary of War and of the Navy. [Called to order.] Mr. HOLLAND thought gentlemen had all made up their opinions; it was, plainly, expensive and unprofitable. He should vote for repealing. H. OF R. Mr. MITCHILL spoke at considerable length, discovering much ingenuity and acquaintance with the subject. He was against a total repeal, especially as we should be subjected to great inconveniences from abolishing the copper coinage. Mr. RUTLEDGE.-If it be true that it is useless, all will agree in abolishing. It has heretofore been customary to show, when about to abolish an establishment, what the state of that establishment was. No such statement has been given. Two years ago it was attempted to abolish this establishment, all suitable information was received at that time, and the bill for repealing was lost. Shall we proceed to act now without information? Mr. R. regretted that he was unable to hear the gentleman from New York, (Mr. MITCHILL.) He perceived that that gentleman had viewed the subject thoroughly and found that it would be improper to repeal; he hoped the observations of that gentlemen would have due effect on the opinion of the House. Mr. R. wished the Committee to rise, without leave to sit again, that the matter might be referred to a select committee, who could examine the subject, and would be enabled to make a report, founded on a knowledge of facts. He would, however, declare that he had no predilection for the establishment, nor any wish to have sinecures, but he had not sufficient knowledge of the present state of the establishment to vote understandingly. Mr. GRISWOLD.-It is admitted there are advantages arising from the establishment. It has driven from circulation the base gold of Germany, and English silver. I had hoped the gentleman who introduced this resolution would have given us a statement of the present situation of the Mint. He was unable to decide till he should have more knowledge of the subject. If the advantages exceed the expense, he should be for continuing; if not, for repealing. Mr. S. SMITH. If we could gain any further information, he should be for the Committee's rising; but he thought no further information of importance could be had. Mr. S. went into a brief exaamination of the expense and the profits. Among other objections he said that it cost half a dollar to coin a cent. Mr. S. observed that we might, at much less expense than as now, send to Birmingham, England, to have our copper coined. If there were a probability of our having mines of our own, there might be some pretext for their continuance. Perhaps a national pride, or national dignity, may be the inducement. Such motives did not actuate him. He had as high sense of national pride as any, but did not imagine that this was any mark of national dignity. The small States of Germany still coin money, so does Scotland, but he did not think such coinage any mark of their independence. Mr. DANA-If we allow the gentleman to attribute motives to others, he can set up his men of straw as easily as we can pull them down. We have no such Scotch pride, as represented. It is important that we should have some Mint establishment. We ought not to have a fluctuating medium. Whether the present be the best mode of coinage I know not. I am willing to make any revisions that may be found necessary. The gentleman from New York has gone into the matter fully-has said much to confirm me in the opinion that this establishment is necessary. The gentleman from Maryland has told us that the coinage of every cent costs half a dollar; this is an assertion that he thought would have exceeded even the legislative intrepidity of that gentleman. Mr. RUTLEDGE.-The gentleman from Maryland has said much on the subject, all of which, he believed, could be answered in a few words. Make your copper lighter, if it ought to be; give alloy to your gold, if that of other countries is not so valuable. Let the subject go to a select committee, who can see what alterations can and ought to be made; what offices reduced; what departments combined, or, perhaps, what parts of the establishment may be abolished. Mr. ELMER. He hoped it would go to a committee. We want information. We ought well to consider the inconveniences that may arise from abolishing. If more evils than benefits grow out of the establishment, he should be for abolishing; if more benefits than disadvantages, he should wish it to continue. But he wanted information. He was not then content to decide. Mr. MITCHILL. We were again unable fully to hear Mr. M. His observations appeared to be mostly directed to the subject of copper coinage. and to show the necessity of coining our own. He corrected Mr. S. SMITH with respect to his statement of Scotland's coining her own money. The place where the coining was done, to which Mr. S. alluded was a place of confinement for convicts-he had been there and well knew. Mr. M. went largely into the subject of base copper coinage; the danger of great disadvantages arising to us from the introduction of it here, unless we had copper coinage of our own to prevent it. Mr. S. SMITH.-He could not see how we should be able to obtain further information. He would explain as to what the gentleman from Connecticut had said. His assertion of the expense (that every cent costs half a dollar) was a lapsus lingua; he did not mean to have it understood as literally true. Mr. BAYARD. It was not to be supposed that because gentlemen wished the Committee to rise, they were opposed to the resolution-the object was to have the subject go to a select committee, who might give it an attentive examination, from documents which they might, but which were not now obtained. In addition to the learned and cogent observations of the gentleman from New York, he would ask what he had to guard against the introduction of base coins? We had been, and we should again be, liable to impositions, es pecially from the circulation of Spanish gold. Another consideration was, the necessity of some regulated medium in small change. Čoppers had heretofore passed two, four, and six for one. There were persons whose sole business was FEBRUARY, 1802. speculating in these base metals. Coppers were brought by the cask from Birmingham; after a short time circulating their baseness was discovered-their value sunk, and the loss generally fell on the poorer class of citizens. The poorest cf the people were in this manner taxed in one year far more than the amount of supporting this establishment. Mr. B. duly appreciated the knowledge and talents of the gentleman who introduced this resolution. They may be equal to the united talents and knowledge of a committee of five; yet such was not common. It was not usual for one to inquire so deeply-so fully-as a committee of several. The gentleman from Maryland informs us that we can send to Birmingham to have our coining done; true, but the gentleman might have gone much further; the expenses of legislation are great; we may also send to Westminster to have our laws made, and thus save the expense of four or five hundred thousand dollars. Our own coinage is moreover emblematic of our sovereignty; this consideration ought to have some effect. If on inquiry it should be found proper to abolish wholly the institution, he should readily join; but he was not ready without reflection or distinction to go any length with those who seem actuated only by an indiscriminate rage for pulling down and destroying establishments. Mr. RANDOLPH.-He thought the banks were sufficient to prevent the circulation of base money. He asserted that nineteen-twentieths of the silver in circulation was not coinage of our own, but Spanish milled dollars and their parts. He could not see how our sovereignty was affected by having our coinage done elsewhere, any more than by the purchase of cordage or the casting of cannon. The gentleman from Delaware laughs at the idea of going to Westminster for our laws. Mr. R. was surprised at this. He had thought the gentleman a great advocate for such laws-that it was his favorite doctrine to go there for our laws. The gentleman had lately taken up the cause of the poor-a cause with which he is just becoming acquainted. Should those who had always advocated their cause become hardened by prosperity, and forget the professions which had gained them the confidence of the people, he hoped and expected they should be dismissed by them. Mr. R. begged pardon for having detained the Committee, but as it seemed the order of the day when a subject was started to consume the whole day, he believed he was not out of order. Mr. GILES.-In the discussion of this subject gentlemen had branched out exceedingly, but he believed it all came to one point-the want of information. He had some days since notified that he should introduce the resolution. He was satisfied no further information of consequence would be obtained, and there is already sufficient to enable us to judge correctly. It is hinted that it will be proposed to obtain a report from the Mint. He believed it unnecessary. Mr. Boudinot is in Philadelphia. We must send to him-he will report when he pleases, and after all we shall receive no information of any consequence. There is a difference between this and other countries. Other nations need to coin their own money; it is not with them the general, but the partial good; it is aggrandizement of individuals, the trappings of royalty. Here it is true you established a Mint; you have raised armies and fleets, &c. to create an Executive influence; but what do the people say now? They send men here now to govern, who shall not govern for themselves, but for the people. Mr. DANA.-When we shall be deprived of the right of debating, it will be full time for gentlemen to criminate, but not now. The gentleman from Virginia, as usual, talks more or less to the purpose on every subject on which he undertakes to speak; like the sun on a cloud he may illuminate in some measure, but neither give nor leave any lasting substance or weight. Mr. D. was in favor of the resolutions going to a select com *mittee. Mr. MACON.-The Mint has been in operation ten years see what has been done-its inutility is evident. Money goes constantly from here to the East Indies; will not the American dollars go? Shall we be always coining? Mr. M. thought the Bank of the United States might be authorized to coin. H. OF R. tinue the establishment, we know not how much lower might be the salaries of the officers concerned; from the vaunting declarations of some gentlemen, that we are become so much more enlightened, so much more patriotic than formerly, so ready to hug the doctrine of virtue's being its own reward, he was induced to think there might be found men who would conduct the establishment, without salaries, without any other fee or reward than the sweet gratification of having served the people. Any communication from the Director of the Mint can be easily and readily procured, if necessary. Gentlemen have informed us that the coinage of every cent costs fifty cents. Is it this kind of information that gentlemen have, and on which they rely? The fact is not so. The establishment has been expensive from the coinage of gold and silver, not from that of copper, which more than pays itself. Gentlemen talk of royalty, and very awkwardly charge the iate administrations of attachment to monarchical measures; if they prefer the subject to any other irrelevant matter, he had no objection, but he did not wish to have attributed to himself sentiments he had never suggested. He had said that the coining of our own was a mark of our sovereignty, not of our royalty, as insinuated. He did not consider that royalty and sovereignty was the same thing; the people originally, or their power given to their delegated government, constituted the sovereignty. Why do genMr. R. dilated on the necessity of continuing tlemen endeavor to catch the popular ear by their the copper coinage, at least; and he wished the empty vociferations, charging the late adminisresolution to go to a select committee, who should trations, and the present minority in Congress, thoroughly understand the subject, and show with a fondness for royalty? Why forever soundwhat could best be done; he was not for thus rap-ing this imaginary attachment in our ears? The idly hastening in the work of indiscriminate demolition. Mr. S. SMITH was of the same opinion. Mr. RUTLEDGE, also; and he wished inquiry might be made of the bank whether it could be done, and on what terms, before he undertook to abolish. Mr. GRISWOLD. The gentleman from Virginia thinks he has all necessary information on the subject; far was Mr. G. from thinking he had; he would inform the gentleman from Virginia that the coinage of copper will pay its own expense, and more. Perhaps it will be best to abolish the coinage of gold and silver, and retain only the copper; he did not know; he wished it referred to a committee who should be able, on examination, to decide. Mr. BAYARD.-He acknowledged there had been aberrations from the subject; but he believed those had been most guilty who had made the most complaint of others. We have been told that it is our object to delay. Why is this charge made? Has it any foundation in truth? If there be delay, the fault is not ours; and I call on them to show whence is the delay of which they complain. and from what cause it arises. If there be delay, those are the authors of it who have all power in their own hands-not the minority. time will come-it must come when the people will be undeceived; when they will judge of men, of their Government, not by their vain professions, but by their actions. The gentleman (Mr. RANDOLPH) endeavors to have it believed that I am attached to English laws; so, indeed, I am to many of the sacred principles of those laws-the trial by jury, the habeas corpus, &c.-principles avowed in the Bill of Rights of our constitutions, principles brought with us from England, in which we have been educated, and which I hope will ever continue to distinguish, to govern us; principles that could never impel me to tear down or root up, with the rage of revolutionary spirit, all that is useful or valuable, without hesitation, without distinction; yet that gentleman never heard me express a fondness for English laws, in the sense in which he wishes it to be understood. The gentleman talks of my taking just now the poor under my protection. The time did exist when the poor did not need that protection, when nothing was done to injure them; it is now altered; now the rich are to be freed from taxes, &c., and the poor to be oppressed; never was there a time when, more than now, they needed protection. Gentlemen have said we have all necessary information on the subject. I have not-others have not. We know not on what terms it might be possible to agree with the bank, should it be thought advisable to discontinue the establish- On dividing, there appeared in favor of the ment ourselves; should it be thought best to con- | Committee's rising 33-against it 54. Mr. RUTLEDGE then moved that the resolution be referred to a select committee; he hoped his motion would prevail, if it should not, he should not regret having made it; that when this mania for ruin should be over, and the time should come for cool reflection, it might appear that attempts were made for stopping it. Mr. GILES.-Gentlemen talk of warmth; he had not seen it; it is, however, natural for them to be warm; they were in the minority; but he did not wish the imputation of warmth thrown on himself. Mr. BAYARD.-I acknowledge the gentleman has been cool, but he has said warm things; he has accused the last Government of an attachment to monarchy; he has talked much of royalty, Executive influence, &c. He may feel very cool himself when making these unfounded sug gestions, but they are not calculated, nor do they appear intended to make others so. Mr. DANA. The gentleman says he is cool; I have observed he is usually so when employed, as he often is, in eulogizing himself and friends; he talks with all the coolness of self-complacency; Mr. DENNIS.-Gentlemen have acknowledged the probability that the coining of copper, at least, may be profitable; why not, then, consent to refer to a select committee, who can make all necessary arrangements? It were curious, indeed, that a resolution to repeal should go to a committee to alter and revise. He had no predilection for the Mint Establishment; he believed, as it was now managed, it was expensive, and he doubted the propriety of continuing it without alterations; those alterations ought not to go to the coining of copper; for that would certainly be useful. A motion was then made and seconded that the said resolution be referred to a select committee, to consider and report thereupon to the House. On which motion the question being taken that the House do agree thereto, it passed in the negative-yeas 33, nays 54, as follows: YEAS-James A. Bayard, Thos. Boude, John Campbell, Manasseh Cutler, Samuel W. Dana, John Davenport, John Dennis, Abiel Foster, Calvin Goddard, Roger Griswold, William Barry Grove, Seth Hastings, Joseph Hemphill, Archibald Henderson, William H. Hill, Benjamin Huger, Thomas Lowndes, Lewis R. Morris, Thomas Morris, Joseph Pierce, Thomas Plater, Nathan Read, John Rutledge, John Cotton Smith, John Stanley, John Stratton, Benjamin Tallmadge, Samuel Tenney, George B. Upham, Peleg Wadsworth, Benjamin Walker, Lemuel Williams, and Henry Woods. FEBRUARY, 1802. Samuel Smith, Henry Southard, Richard Sprigg, Richard Stanford, Joseph Stanton, jun., John Taliaferro, jun., David Thomas, Thomas Tillinghast, Philip R. Thompson, Abram Trigg, John Trigg, Joseph B. Varnum, Isaac Van Horne, and Robert Williams. And then the main question being put, that the House do agree to the said resolution, as reported from the Committee of the Whole House, it was resolved in the affirmative. Ordered, That a bill or bills be brought in, pursuant to the said resolution; and that Mr. GILES, Mr. MITCHILL, and Mr. HOLLAND, do prepare and bring in the same. TUESDAY, February 9. tion of an engrossed bill to allow a drawback of The House proceeded to the farther consideraduties on goods exported to New Orleans, and therein to amend the act, entitled "An act to regu→ late the collection of duties on imports and tonnage," which was read the third time on the eighth instant: Whereupon, title be, "An act to allow a drawback of duties on Resolved, That the said bill do pass, and that the goods exported to New Orleans, and therein to amend the act, entitled 'An act to regulate the collection of duties on imports and tonnage." Mr. SPRIGG, from the committee to whom was referred, on the nineteenth ultimo, the petition of sundry inhabitants of the City of Washington, in the District of Columbia, made a report; which was read and considered: Whereupon, Resolved, That it is expedient to pass a law incorporating a company for the purpose of opening a navigable canal, to connect the waters of the Potomac river with those of the Eastern Branch thereof, through Tiber creek, and the low lands at the foot of the Capitol Hill. Ordered, That a bill or bills be brought in pursuant to the said resolution; and that Mr. SPRIGG, Mr. BRENT, and Mr. FOSTER, do prepare and bring in the same. Mr. DAVENPORT, from the Committee of Revisal and Unfinished Business, presented a bill to continue in force "An act to augment the salaries of certain officers therein mentioned," which was read twice and committed to a Committee of the whole House on Monday next. The SPEAKER laid before the House a letter from the Secretary of the Treasury, the Secretary of War, and Comptroller of the Treasury, to the Commissioners appointed in pursuance of the act, NAYS-Willis Alston, John Archer, John Bacon, the British provinces of Canada and Nova Scoentitled "An act, for the relief of the refugees from Theodorus Bailey, Phanuel Bishop, Richard Brent, tia." enclosing certain documents relative to the Robert Brown, William Butler, Samuel J. Cabell, claims of Elijah Ayer, deceased, and Elijah Ayer. Thomas Claiborne, Matthew, Clay, John Condit, Thos. T. Davis, John Dawson, Lucas Elmendorf, Ebenezer junior, refugees from Nova Scotia; which was Elmer, John Fowler, William B. Giles, Edwin Gray, read, and ordered to be referred to the Committee Andrew Gregg, John A. Hanna, Daniel Heister, Jo- of the whole House to whom was committed, on seph Heister, William Helms, William Hoge, James the twenty-fifth ultimo, the report of the ComHolland, David Holmes, George Jackson, Charles John-mittee of Claims on the petition of Caleb Eddy, son, William Jones, Michael Leib, Samuel L. Mitchill, Thomas Moore, Thomas Newton, jun., Joseph H. Nicholson, John Randolph, jun., John Smilie, John Smith, of New York, John Smith, of Virginia, Josiah Smith, Ordered, That the Committee of the whole House to whom was committed, on the eighth instant, the report of the committee appointed on the thirty-first of December last, on so much of the |