Mr. KNIGHT. I move that the request be granted.

The motion was agreed to.

PRINTING OF ARTICLES.

Mr. H. W. PALMER. I ask leave at this time to offer a resolution in respect to printing articles which have passed second reading.

The PRESIDENT pro tem. Shall the gentleman have leave? The Chair hears no objection and leave is granted.

The resolution was read as follows: Resolved, That the articles passed second reading be printed for the use of members of the Committee on Revision and Adjustrent.

Mr. EWING. 1 ask the gentleman to modify his resolution to include members of the Convention.

Mr. H. W. PALMER. I meant to include the members of the Convention and members of the Committee on Revision and Adjustment. I will say the usual number, so as to read:

Resolved, That the usual number of the articles passed second reading be printed. The resolution was agreed to.

Mr. SIMPSON. I have prepared a scheme for the election of members of the House of Representatives, and I ask that it may be printed for the use of the Convention while the article on the Legislature is under discussion.

Leave to print was granted.

Mr. ADDICKS. I move an adjournment. The motion was agreed to; and (at two o'clock and fifty-nine minutes. P.M.) the Convention adjourned.

WEDNESDAY, June 11, 1873.

The Convention met at half-past nine o'clock A. M., the PRESIDENT pro tempore (Hon. John H. Walker) in the chair. Prayer by Rev. Samuel W. Thomas, D. D., presiding elder of the Philadelphia district.

JOURNAL.

Mr. LAWRENCE. Mr. President: Every morning we waste ter or fifteen minutes in reading the Journal, and nobody pays any attention to it. I move that its reading be dispensed with.

Convention, the compensation for services of said officers be and are hereby fixed as follows: The Chief Clerk, $2,750; Assistant Clerks, each, $2,750; Transcribing Clerks, each, $2,500; Sergeant-at-Arms, $1,800; Assistant Sergeant-at-Arms, $1,400; Door-keeper, $1,300; Assistant Door-keeper, $1,300; Postmaster, $1,500; Assistant Postmaster, $1,400.

The resolution was read twice and considered.

Mr. BARTHOLOMEW. I desire to inquire of the chairman of this committee

Mr. HUNSICKER and others. I object. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Objection is made and the Journal will be read. The Journal of yesterday's proceedings was read and approved.

LEAVES OF ABSENCE.

Mr. PARSONS asked and obtained leave of absence for Mr. Church for a few days from to-day.

Mr. DARLINGTON asked and obtained leave of absence for Mr. Hemphill for today.

RESOLUTIONS AS TO HOURS OF MEETING.

Mr. STANTON submitted the following resolution, which was read and laid over under the rules:

Resolved, That hereafter it shall not be in order to offer a resolution changing or altering the hours of daily sessions, without previous notice of one day, and without leave of two thirds of the house, and the question of granting such leave shall be decided without debate.

SALARIES OF OFFICERS.

Mr. CURRY, from the select committee on the salaries of members and officers of the Convention, submitted a report declaring that the salaries of the officers heretofore fixed when it was supposed the session would not exceed three months are inadequate, and therefore presenting the following resolution for adoption:

Resolved, That in lieu of the salaries heretofore fixed for the officers of this

at $1,300 and that of other officers of the same class at $1,800? I cannot understand that.

Mr. CURRY. The only reply I feel inclined to make is that a majority of the committee fixed the salaries at what they thought right in view of the duties of the respective officers.

Mr. BARTHOLOMEW. Then I move to amend the resolution so as to provide that the salary of the Door-keeper, Assistant Door-keeper, and Assistant Sergeant-atArms, respectively, shall be $1,800.

Mr. Jos. BAILY. I second that motion. Mr. LILLY. This report looks very proper and right as far as I can understand it. It has, however, been suggested by several gentlemen around me that the subject has been called up rather unexpectedly and they with myself would like to have it postponed until to-morrow morning. I move to so postpone it.

The motion to postpone was agreed to.

PETITIONS AND MEMORIALS.

Mr. FUNCK presented a petition from the compositors engaged in setting type on the Debates and proceedings of the Convention, asking that a bound copy of each volume of Debates be furnished to each compositor, which was referred to the Committee on Printing and Binding.

THE LEGISLATURE.

Mr. EWING. I move that the Convention resolve itself into committee of the whole upon the article on the Legislature.

The motion was agreed to, and the Convention accordingly resolved itself into committee of the whole, Mr. Stanton in the chair.

The CHAIRMAN. When the committee of the whole rose yesterday, the nineteenth section of the article on the Legislature was before it. The question is upon the amendment of the gentleman from Chester (Mr. Darlington) to the amend ment of the gentleman from Philadelphia (Mr. Cuyler.) The amendment to the amendment will be read.

The CLERK read as follows:

"The General Assembly shall apportion the State for the election of Senators and Representatives according to population as ascertained by the last preceding census, every ten years, commencing at the first session after the adoption of this Constitution. Senators and Representatives shall be chosen by single districts, composed of contigious, and as nearly as practicable, compact territory, of equal population. When a city or county shall be entitled to two or more Senators, it shall be divided by ward or township lines. No city or county shall be entitled to more than six Senators. Each county shall he entitled to at least one Representative; but no county hereafter erected shall be entitled to a separate representation until sufficient population shall be contained within it to entitle it to one Representative agreeably to the ratio which shall then be established. When any city or county shall be entitled to two or more Representatives, it shall be divided by ward or township lines. The number of Representatives shall, at the several periods of their apportionment, be fixed by the Legislature, and shall never be less than one hundred and fifty, nor greater than three hundred. The number of Senators shall at the same times be fixed by the Legislature, and shall never be less than one-fourth, nor greater than onethird of the number of Representatives"

Mr. DARLINGTON. I propose to modify the amendment by striking out the word "six," before "Senators," and inserting the words, "one-seventh of the whole number of," so as to read:

"No city or county shall be entitled to more than one seventh of the whole number of Senators."

The CHAIRMAN. Will the committee agree to the modification? The Chair hears no objection, and the modification is agreed to. The amendment of the gentleman from Chester as modified is be

fore the committee, as an amendment to the amendment of the gentleman from Philadelphia.

Mr. COCHRAN. Mr. Chairman: I had no thought of speaking to-day on this or any other question connected with the present report; but as there may be a moment or two probably profitably spent in considering this amendment before it is voted upon, I will occupy the time by making a few remarks on the subject.

I am one of those who have been and am opposed to any increase over the present number of Senators or Representatives, and as far as I see at the present, I believe that there is no alternative left to me except to vote in the negative on every proposition that can be offered on the subject. That is the position which, I presume, I shall be compelled to take from the opinions which I entertain on this whole subject.

There are several considerations which it seems to me should operate against the adoption of the present or any other similar amendment, while I am free to confess, at the same time, that the amendment now pending seem to me to be less objectionable than others which have been proposed. The amendment now offered provides, among other things, for single districts, as I understand it, for the election both of Senators and Representatives. That raises at once the question that is to be determined by the committee, and it may as well be determined on this as any other vote, whether or not they prefer the adoption of the single district system. Has that system worked so well in practice where it has been applied that it should be made a permanent rule of the Constitution?

If we can believe what has been said here of the city of Philadelphia, so far as that is concerned the single district system has been an absolute and total failure and productive of nothing but injury. I confess that years ago I was decidedly of the opinion that the single district system ought to be universally established. I believe I was impressed with that idea from reading the New York Tribune several years ago and the expressed opinions of Mr. Greeley at that time. They seemed to me to be correct.

But, sir, what has been the experience in the State of New York, where the system has been reduced to practical application? I inquire of gentlemen here whether they believe it has been satisfactory there, and met the ends which were

expected to be accomplished by its adoption? It does appear to me, from all the observation I have been able to give to it, that the experiment, in its practical application, has not resulted satisfactorily nor beneficially, and therefore I cannot see why we should now adopt it into the system of elections in Pennsylvania.

Farthest possible opposed to that is the proposition which has been made here and is urged by many, as I understand, that you shall elec: your Senators by a general ticket throughout the State; that is to say, that you shall commit to State conventions of political parties the seclection of your Senators; for, when it is boiled down, that is the substance of the proposition. Is it the opinion of the members of this body that it is wise to submit to a State convention of parties organized and made up, as we know those conventions are, the selection of State Senators.

The PRESIDENT. The delegate from York will discontinue his remarks until

delegates of the Convention cease talking. When they get through, the delegate will proceed.

Mr. COCHRAN. Well, sir, I take it that loud talking is evidence that I am not saying anything worth listening to, and therefore I shall not talk long.

Are our State Conventions, constituted in the manner I have stated, the proper bodies to nominate complete Senatorial tickets throughout the State, and should Senators be elected in that way? The argument in favor of the single district system is that you bring the representative and the constituent so close together that the constituent knows the man, and he is better able to determine whether he is a fit man to be a Representative. The argument in favor of a general system, as I understand it, is, that by carrying it the farthest possible from the direct operation of the constituent, through an intermediate body, you necessarily bring into the State Senate only those men who have already acquired an established rep. utation, and that in that way you get such men nominated for State Senators.

Both arguments, the argument in favor of the single district system and the argument in favor of the State system, run to extremes, and I do not think it is advisable for us to adopt either of those systems. In my opinion the proper plan is to have districts which are conveniently large in territory and conveniently near to the

people, and let the candidates be nominated in the manner which has heretofore been usual in this State. I do not believe, after all that has been said, that the Legislature of Pennsylvania has been any greater failure, though I admit it has been largely a failure, than the Legislatures of certain other States in this country; and although my friend from Mercer read some very favorable letters from the Executives of other States in regard to the effect of large numbers in their Legislatures, yet I take those with considerable allowance. I believe that the Governors of those States were not willing to wash their dirty clothes before the public, and probably that may explain to some extent the reason why they have spoken so favorably of their own systems at home.

Mr. Chairman, I am opposed to any increase in the number of our present Senators and Representatives. I am opposed to it for the reason that I think we have done work as laborious as Sysiphus of old according to the fable, in order to

tie the hands of our Legislature and to restrict their powers; but I think if that work has been effectual to any great exwhich it is necessary for us to attempt to tent, it has answered all the purposes attain by the adoption of any system with regard to our Legislature. I believe myself that the proposed provisions contained in the article adopted on the subject of legislation are wholesome and are calculated to impose such restrictions as will relieve the Legislature from the 1 ability of wrong-doing to which it has been hilherto exposed; and believing that, 1 am opposed to increasing their number. I know that it is a saying which is worthy of respect that "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety," yet it does not always follow that you get a counsellor. You get very often some person who has no faculty for counsel at all; and when you turn your Legislature from something like a deliberate body into something much more like a mob, then you have no counsel the counsel is entirely gone, and it becomes no longer a deliberative body.

Mr. Chairman, I am opposed to this on another point, a practical point. I know that the consideration of dollars and cents is regarded by many as one that is scarcely to be taken into view in a matter of this character; but the consideration of dollars and cents here is a very important one. Your legislative sessions already, according to the last Audi

tor General's report, cost you four hundred thousand dollars every year, and if you add the public printing they cost you half a million dollars every year. It is at least half a million according to the fig ures that I have taken from the Auditor General's report. Now, you are adding what? You are adding seventeen members to the Senate by the smallest proposition, as I understand it, and you are adding fifty members to the House. According to the practice observed of late years in legislative bodies, I believe it has generally occured that every member of either House must have at least one henchman, and as you increase the number of members you increase in the same proportion the number of officers of one order and another down to the noble order of pasters and folders! Now, think of the increased expense! Add fifty members and you increase your expenses for every session of the Legislature to three-quarters of a million of dollars, and if you add fifty more you will increase it to a million of dollars. Where is that million of dollars to come from? Who is to pay the expense? And how is this Constitution to stand before the eyes of the people of this State, (who are an economical people if their representatives are not economical,) when a question of this kind is raised before them by those who for other and sinister reasons object to the Constitution which you present.

But, sir, there is another point to be considered on this question of economy, and that is the fact that if you increase the number of your representative bodies you necessarily incur the expense of building a new Capitol. I do not believe that the present Capitol is competent to accommodate the lowest increase which is here mentioned. The halls of the House and of the Senate are as fully occupied now as they can be with convenience and comfort. You build a new Capitol, and what is that to cost? How many millions? Five, more or less. I do not pretend to say; but according to my observation of the manner of putting up public buildings of late years, I do not suppose that $5,000,000 would be a large estimate to make for putting up the new Capitol building to meet the views and the extravagance and the architectural notions which prevail in our day. And that is another consideration which will weigh strongly in the minds of the people of this State when you come to submit your Constitution to their approval or rejection.

I shall vote against all propositions, however framed, to increase the number of Senators and Representatives. That is the only thing that is left to me with the views that I entertain on this subject and I have presented these considerations merely for the purpose of inducing gentlemen to bring them under the views of their own minds to determine whether or not it is wise to adopt the propositions which are now pending before this body.

Mr. CARTER. Mr. Chairman: I suppose there will have to be some talking before this matter is settled and I might as well occupy a few minutes as any one else. I rise with but faint, if any, expectation of convincing or converting rather any gen tleman who may have already made up his mind in regard to this matter; but it may chance be so that some may not have entirely made up their minds and to them I would address a word of caution, chiefly in regard to the idea that now seems to be prevalent to some extent favorable to the election of Senators by general ticket.

This is so objectionable to me that I shall principally confine my remarks to this branch of the general subject, and, perhaps, something may drop from me which may cause some gentlemen to pause before they make this radical change in our manner of electing Senators. In regard to the assertion made by the advocates of this new system that we shall thereby secure a body of more weight, higher qualifications and dignity. I dessent in toto from that proposition, and I do not, cannot believe that we are to look in that direction for greater purity or greater intelligence in our legislators.

I do not believe that a State convention, constituted as it is of professed politicians, meeting together less for the public good than for the advancement of their individual ends, forming, as it were, a sort of guild or political association of political aspirants, and mainly actuated by political aspirations, are the men to select that class or kind of Senators which the peopie desire. It is looking in a wrong direction. Gentlemen have said that when Congressmen were formerly elected on general ticket, they were superior as a body to those that have been elected under the single district system. I know not whether that be so or not, but I incline to disbelieve it. Even if it has a portion of truth in it, this case does not rest on the same conditions, for those bodies that formerly nominated Congressional