Brown, Cassidy, Comstock, Cooke, Corbett, Corn- Noes-Messrs. Barto, Beals, Bell, Carpenter, The PRESIDENT announced the pending question to be on the adoption of the additional section offered by Mr. M. H. Lawrence, prohibit. ing the building of the Capitol for five years. A Mr. E. BROOKS offered the following: "The Capitol shall be located at Albany forever, but no more than five hundred thousand dollars shall be expended by the Legislature upon the new building in any one year, nor more than five million in all for its completion." The question was put on the adoption of the resolution of instructions offered by Mr. Brooks, and it was declared carried. Mr. COMSTOCK-I call for a count upon the vote just taken. I am opposed to the principle of the resolution. When we commenco a Capitol, I do not see the wisdom of limiting the expenditure to $500,000 per annum. On the contrary, it is my own opinion that, when the State deliberately commences the erection of a new Capitol, it had better complete it as fast as men and money can do it. I am opposed to the resolution. I should be glad to see the whole matter put off for a year or two. That can be done by the Legislature, and I trust they will make a postponement of building the Capitol; but in the manner suggested by the resolution of the gentleman from Richmond [Mr. E. Brooks], I am opposed to a postponement. every year of that time for the completion of the Capitol. It is not, at this time, absolutely neces sary, and it seems to me to be all that is required and to be quite enough to satisfy gentlemen who are most interested in this work. Sir, $5,000, 000 is a large sum to expend in building in these times. I have understood from the gentle man from Albany [Mr. Harris], and I know to be a fact that by the estimates for the splendid edifice which is now under con sideration by the architects, it may he completed for four millions of dollars. They have the land appropriated. They may have this half million dollars a year for ten years, and that is as much as can be wisely expended for this purpose. Sir, in the conviction that my amendment is right, as I desire to have a record upon the subject, I call for the ayes and noes. A sufficient number seconding the call, the ayes and noes were ordered. Mr. ALVORD—I think, sir, that the Conven tion will, in its wisdom, come to the conclusion that, as a Constitutional Convention, it should have nothing whatever to do with this subject It is a matter for the Legislature wholly, and not for the Convention. While I would agree with the gentleman from Richmond [Mr. E. Brooks] that a wise administration of the affairs of the State would lengthen out the time for the building of the Capitol for some years, still I desire to leave questions of that kind to the Legislature to be determined as time shall roll along. It may be, sir, that in a very short time the people this State will be enabled so to do, and it may be that they will require that the Capitol shall built very rapidly, or the Legislature may con clude that it is being built too rapidly. I would leave the matter with those who more immedi ately represent the people of this State, and who come up from the people every year, and can speak directly the opinions of the people of the State. I have all along been of the conviction that we have not the right-we may have the abstract power-but that it is not our province to meddle in this affair at all, that we should drop it where it is, and let the Legislature reflect the wishes of the people on the subject. Mr. E. BROOKS-I sincerely hope that the Mr. HARRIS-Mr. President, I believe, myself, section which I have offered as a substitute will that the new Capitol can be built according to the be incorporated in the article. My reasons for plans which have been adopted within the limits urging it at this time, in brief, are these: In the specified in the amendment proposed by the gen first place, the same influences which have de- tleman from Richmond [Mr. E. Brooks]. The feated the section under consideration previous to commissioners have the certificates of three ar the submission of my amendment, will prevail in chitects that it can be built within the limit prethe Legislature as they have prevailed in the Con- scribed by the Legislature in the act of 1963, vention, and in the second place, there is no hope which is four millions of dollars; and a very of postponing the commencement or completion competent and efficient mechanic is ready to con of this work for any long period of time, because tract for the building at that price; and my own the Legislature has already appropriated about judgment is that half a million of dollars is as $250,000. The Legislature having appropriated much as can be judiciously expended in a year that sum of money to commence the work, and a upon that work; so that, so far as the amendment portion of that money being expended, we have itself is concerned, I have no great objec ion to no reason to Lope there will be a suspension of it. But, sir, in my judgment, it would be unwise the work to any late day. Sir, this sum of $500,- for this Convention to undertake to insert any 000 a year is as much as the State can bear with such restriction in the Constitution. The Legisla the present burdens of taxation which it has to ture have shown considerable caution, I think, endure. It will amount to a third of a mill for in the way they have legislated in reference to each successive year for ten years, and take from this subject. They, at the outset, have limited the treasury of the State a half million of money the amount of expenditure to four millions of Constitution. dollars; and there seems to be no disposition to our works of utility-our canals-for the purgo beyond that; and there is no great danger, I pose of appropriating a larger amount of money apprehend, in the Legislature making appropria-to ornament and improve this city. I called at a tions further than is required for building, and I friend's a few days ago and had with me a picture have no idea that more than half a million a year of the new Capitol building, which the boys had will be required; so that, in passing the amend- been selling about this chamber, and I showed ment, I do not think the Convention will do much it to a number of persons there, and one gentletoward promoting the interests of the State. I man remarked that it was a representation of a think the subject should be left to the Legislature, new fancy parlor stove that Mr. Corning was whose appropriato business it is to take care of getting up. So you see its high artistic merits it. It is not a matter to be provided for in the are appreciated! [Laughter.] Mr. President, in all seriousness, I look upon this subject in this light: I have a farm, on which we will sup. pose there is a mortgage resting. I am unable to cut ditches through my farm for the purpose of draining it, and I am unable to put fences upon it which are really necessary, in conse. quence of my indebtedness. But some of my family say, we are living in too humble apartand in an unguarded moment I am induced to put an additional mortgage upon the place in order to build a splendid house with all the conveniences and luxuries of the dwellings that you see in Albany, and the result of which is the mortgages are foreclosed, and I and my family are thrown out of our house, our farm taken away from us, and we are destitute. Our big farm, the State, is now in almost such a condition. I think it is time when concessions should be made by certain ruling powers in this Convention. States as well as individuals have been lost by the reason of timely concessions not being made. I tell you if this section be stricken out, the delegates who vote for it will hear from their constituents. They will have an account to settle. I am no prophet, but I tell you the eyes of the people of this State are upon this Conven. tion with reference to this very question. It is a question in which the deepest interest is felt, and I tell you, furthermore, that if you adopt this section it will do more to secure the adoption of our Constitution than any other measure that could be put in it. The gentlemen from Ouondaga [Mr. Alvord] says we are not here to legislate. I say that we are here to put checks upon legislation, and if we do not do it we shall be recreant I know Mr. M. H. LAWRENCE-I certainly regret to be compelled to differ with my friend from Albany [Mr. Harris], and my friend from Onondaga [Mr. Alvord], being, as they are, gentlemen of such distinguished abilities, who have had so much experience in public affairs. But, sir, when the gentleman from Onondaga [Mr. Alvord] tells us that we came here not for the purpose of med-ments; we should have here an elegant house; dling with such matters as this, I say to him that ho is stating that, which it seems to me, to be very far from the truth. I claim that we came here for that very purpose, of exercising a restraining power over the action of the Legielature. I claim that one of the acts of the Legis. lature providing for the commencement of the Capitol at that inopportune time, was one of the very reasons, among others, why we are here, and why we should do something in this Constitution to stay this reckless extravagance. Does the gentleman from Onondaga [Mr. Alvord], and the gentleman from Albany [Mr. Harris], know that the taxation upon the people of this State is now more than they can bear? Do they realize, when they are permitted to live in their comfortable homes, that there are many in the State of New York who are really suffering for the neces saries of life, because of the additional taxation that is and will be imposed upon the people of this State to embellish this city, especially when there is no pressing necessity for it? A few weeks ago we deliberately refused to authorize the paying out of eight millions of dollars for the purpose of improving the canals of this State, a work which very many thought was needed to develop the resources of this and other States, and to add to the revenues of the canals. in our duty to the people of this State. Whether the gentleman from Albany that some gentlemen would like to abolish the [Mr. Harris], voted against the proposition Constitution altogether, so that every body might do not now remember. But that appropriation be able to make a raid upon the treasury. But I we persistently refused to make, because of the have not yet come to be a believer in that docheavy burdens of taxation which the people were trine. Mr. President, less than one week ago I now compelled to bear. But here is a proposi- had the honor to propose the section postponing tion, some say, to expend five millions of dollars, the building of the new Capitol for five years, and but which I say is virtually a proposition to ex-it prevailed by a vote of 46 to 44. I trust we pend twenty millions of dollars for the purpose will not now stultify our previous action by reof building a new Capitol, and it is to be carried, versing what we did then, thereby laying ourif at all, if I read the signs aright, by some polit-s-lves open to the charge of log-rolling or other ical manipulation that could not be excelled by improper motives. the most experienced veterans of the lobby. Mr. VAN COTT-I voted with the gentlemen People may talk about "rings" in the Legisla who voted to postpone the building of the Capiture. We hear a great deal about "canal rings," tol. I mean now to change my vote. I am one but it seems to me that we have got here a of the gentlemen who are not afraid to go home "ring" in this Convention, all organized for the and face their constituen's, whose indignation purpose of going on with the building of this Capitol, after we have twice voted to postpone. It seems to me so. Here we refuse an appropriation for the advancement and improvement of the gentleman from Yates [Mr. M. H. Lawrence] has held up in such terror before us. I desire to propitiate these constituents as far as I can now, by kindly words on this question. The Commit. rickety old block of buildings now occupying the site of the proposed Capitol, becoming more and more rickety day by day, to stand as a monument of the improvidence and folly of the State of New York, and of our want of sagacity. The State of New York can carry this work forward when she will, and as she will. When has the State of New York ever undertaken a work that it has not succeeded in? It has now pledged itself to that work, and the citizens of the State of New York will be willing to carry out the pledges of the State. Mr. COMSTOCK-I offer an amendment to the section proposed by the gentleman from Rich mond [Mr. E. Brooks] to this effect: tee on Finance provided for the location of the Capitol permanently in this city, but provided for the postponement of the erection of the Capitol building for ten years. I voted for that in the Convention. That section having been stricken out by the Convention, I afterward voted to postpone the erection of the building for five years. Now, sir, I did that mainly under this consideration-I think the site chosen for the Capitol is one of the worst possible for its location. I hoped that by five years' postponement those who had the responsibility of selecting the site would select one more suitable. But finally it must be conceded that the Capitol is to.be built, and it must have a site, and that the cost of the work Strike out all after the word "forever," and inhas to be provided for and paid, and as this Con- sert in lieu thereof the words "But no further exvention cannot properly choose the site and de-penditure on the new Capitol shall be made prior termine the architectural style, and provide for the details and the cost of the work, that must, of necessity, be devolved upon the Legislature, as we have already devolved other subjects of transcendent importance upon that body. to the year 1870." Mr. COMSTOCK-Mr. President, I would like to bring before the next Legislature & reconsideration of the question of the location of the Capitol in the city of Albany. Mr. M. I. TOWNSEND-We have got to ad- I am content, sir, that the Capitol should journ finally, Mr. President, in a few days, and I be located in the city of Albany forever. I say! think it is a consolation in contemplating the dis- am content. I know the difficulties of moving it, solution of this body to know that there will be and therefore I acquiesce, and am willing that it a great many honest men, and a great many pa- should be placed in the Constitution. I am not triotic men, and a great many intelligent men left satisfied, however, that the Legislature has se in the State although this Convention has broken lected the proper situation in the city on which up and adjourned. I do not feel that, if there to place it. It should be remembered, when we should happen to be one thing in the range of build a new Capitol, we build it not for the preshuman interest that this Convention did not ent time but for those who are to come after us grasp entire, that somebody else will fail to take and for all future ages; and the location should care of it so that the interests of the State shall be carefully selected. Any one can see that this not suffer. I do not feel alarmed if there should new building, when put up, is bounded closely on be something that we do not act upon before three sides by streets, that there is no room for we adjourn. Now, sir, I have a reason which I those other buildings which this great and grow wish to give for my vote upon this occasion. I ing State will require for the transaction of public reside in a city six miles from here, which some business. My own impressions are very strong have supposed was the hereditary enemy of this that that location should be in another place ancient capital. I wish to profess here an entire within the boundaries of the city; and therefore freedom from any thing of that kind. I feel that I would arrest immediate expenditure. I would this is the capital of the State, and doubtless for have none made for two years to come. I know .all time to come it will remain the capital of the very well that the Constitution we are framing State. Now, it being the capital of the State in cannot be adopted until next fall; but the delib the words of the Constitution of the State, it erate expression of the Convention that no fur should be a capital such as becomes the dignity of ther expenditure should be made until 1870, w a State like New York. Now, sir, whether I have its moral influence upon the Legislature; and would have voted to commence the building of a I presume that further expenditure will be ar new State House at so early a day is not now a rested. One word in regard to the provision question of any importance. The Legislature of proposed by the gentleman from Richmond [Mr. the State has set the machinery in motion. The E. Brooks], as to the maximum amount to be exLegislature has caused the city of Albany to pur-pended upon this Capitol. I do not believe in chase and donate to the State the property upon placing that maximum in the Constitution. It which this Capitol is to be located, and now, if we seems to me eminently unwise. I have no reason let it stop in its present shape, it will be a monu-to believe that that would induce any greater ment and an evidence to the world that the State economy in the actual expenditure; and after you of New York attempted to build what it was not able to finish. Aye, more, it will be a visible proof to the world that the State of New York has put itself in the attitude of the man who put teth his hand to the plough and looketh back; and the book in which that statement was written says that such a man is not fit for the highest consideration. [Laughter.] I do not want, as a citizen of the State of New York, to have the State of New York left here standing for from five to ten years like the man with his hand upon the plough and looking back. I do not want this have expended your five millions, whether economically or not economically, the Constitution will certainly make no difference, you might find your building unfinished and the Constitution in the way of completing that work. Our mere sentiments on the subject of economy should not be placed in the Constitution in the form of an inflexible provision. For the reasons which I have suggested, and for some others with which I do not care now to trouble the attention of the Convention, but which I feel very deeply, I think this question of the location of the Capitol within the 7 包 1 State should undergo a further consideration;|that were advanced by those distinguished genand therefore I propose this amendment. tlemen who advocated that measure. They Mr. BEADLE-I rise to ask for a division of claimed eight millions only of the public money the question. For the first portion of the propo- to enlarge the public works of this State, claimed sition of the gentleman from Richmond [Mr. E. that it was an absolute necessity; and still this Brooks] I shall be very happy to vote. I will Convention, by four deliberate votes, refused to vote to locate the Capitol of the State of New give-to the public works of this State, rememYork in the city of Albany. In reference to the ber-eight millions. After that had been refused other proposition made by him or by the gentle--after we had given that vote, I could not, conman from Onondaga [Mr. Comstock], I would say sistently with my own convictions, vote to give but a word, for I am reminded of our limited six millions, or five millions, or ten millions, as time by the remark of the honorable gentleman my friend from Yates [Mr. M. H. Lawrence] has from Rensselaer [Mr. M. I. Townsend], although very well stated, to decorate and adorn or conI am at a loss to see what indications there are struct a new building, the one we have being in the action of this body that it is ever to ad- now at least comfortable. In this peculiar juncjourn. [Laughter.] He perhaps has forgotten ture of our financial affairs-this gloomy state of that the Legislature, in the enabling act, pro- affairs-I could not and I cannot now consistently, vided for our successors. Be that as it may, I no matter what may be the views of gentlemen do not believe that it is the province or the duty who inhabit this county or this city. I would of this Convention to sit here and legislate in re-like to ask those gentlemen from Albany-I begard to the building or delay in the building of the Capitol. We are here for the purpose, as has been said some hundreds of times, of forming a Constitution for the State. Forty years hence, how will it read that we deliberately discussed the question here, and voted upon it once and again, that we should not build the Capitol for two years, or that the amounts of five hundred or four hundred or two hundred thousand dollars only should be expended in each year-matters purely within the scope of the Legislature, and entirely beyond, and, if I may be allowed the expression, below the action of this Convention, assembled here for the purpose that we are assembled? Mr. MORRIS-The members of this Constitutional Convention seem to forget that, owing to the increase of salary which we have arranged for the members of the Legislature, we are hereafter going to have members so much more honest than heretofore, that we may safely leave this matter in their hands. [Laughter.] Mr. VAN CAMPEN-I move the previous question. lieve every one of them voted, if my memory serves me right and the record will determine, not to give one dollar of the public money for the enlargement of the Erie canal, a great public work, which was almost demonstrated to be an inevitable necessity, if not now, shortly in the coming time-how they can justify themselves in refusing to give any thing out of the public purse to that object, and turn directly around and give from the public purse the same amount of money, if not more, to construct a Capitol which all will admit we can get along without for at least five years? It is said that this is not a proper subject to put into a Constitution. In one respect I agree to that; and I desire to call the attention of the members of this Convention to another fact. You have already in this Constitution a prohibition that the servants of the people who constitute the Legislature, the immediate representatives of the people, shall not give one single dollar to your public works. Is not that as likely to be well handled by the Legislature as this? You say to them "you shall not put your hands into the public treasury and take a hundred dollars out of it to expend upon the Erie or its lateral canals, but you can take eight millions out to build a Capitol in the city of Albany. Now, while I admit the necessity of the Capitol, while I am perfectly willing to admit that a better structure is proper in the State, I do think, and I cannot avoid the conviction at which I have arrived, that the time has not come when Mr. HARDENBURGH-I desire to say to the this thing should be done. I do insist upon it Convention a word or two upon this subject. I that I cannot understand the alteration in the was a member of the Committee on Finance who minds of men, who have stubbornly and persistoriginally reported this article to the Convention; ently voted upon this question. Unless it can be and it is perhaps sufficient for me to state the accounted for by some sort of an arrangement reasons that operated upon my mind in signing between gentlemen upon this floor with respect that report, and that will now influence my vote to this question, and others that are cognate and here upon not only the two several amendments germane to it, I cannot understand the alteration, that are pending, but likewise upon the main and it is not for me to say here what I think proposition. In the deliberations of the commit- probably may have changed the minds of men. tee we solemnly came to the conclusion that we Whether it is suggested to me by former votes would not give from the public purse of this or not, I will leave the future record to determine, State one single dollar for the present to enlarge and I do ask men who have voted upon this the great public works of the State. The Canal question over and over again, I do ask men also Committee insisted upon it and with great power, who have voted to refuse to the Legislature the and I confess more than once during the discus-power to give any aid whatever to the great pubsion I at least was staggered by the arguments lic works of this State, how they can justify Mr. HARDENBURGH-I trust the gentleman will withdraw that motion. The PRESIDENT pro tem.-Does the gentleman withdraw his motion? Mr. VAN CAMPEN-I do not. The question was put on the motion of Mr Van Campen, and, on a division, it was declared lost by a vote of 32 to 44. themselves to the people of this State when they come to vote to give ten or twelve millions, or an unlimited amount of money, to decorate, adorn, and construct a Capitol, when that which we now have will be sufficient, at all events, for five years in the future, as it has been in the past. Here the gavel fell, the speaker's time having expired. to the necessity of this work, that I have visited most of the State Capitols, and I state what wil be corroborated by any gentleman who has had the opportunity of making the comparison, that we have the poorest Capitol, in proportion to our wealth, population, and wants, of any State in the Union. As respects the plan which has been selected by the commissioners, I have not suffMr. DALY-The objection which I have to the cient artistic or architectural knowledge to enable amendment of my friend from Onondaga [Mr. me to say whether it is or is not the best that could Comstock] is of the same general nature as the have been adopted. But I have some knowledge objections I made to the previous amendment, upon the subject. I have seen a great variety of which is that, by any such enactment, we are ex- public buildings, both in this country and in ercising powers which should be left to the Legis- Europe, and I know this at least, that the style lature. We are deciding, in a Constitutional Con- of the proposed building, which is what is known vention, whether, within the coming two or three as the renaissance, is one now generally adopted years, the Capitol shall be built or not. I beg both here and in Europe, as especially suitable to leave to say that the one hundred and twenty buildings intended for public or State purposes. eight gentlemen who sit in the Assembly, and the The uses to which such buildings are devoted rethirty-two gentlemen who sit in the Senate, are quire that, independent of their external appear quite as competent to pass upon that subject as ance, outward embellishment, beauty of form or the one hundred and sixty gentlemen who sit imposing effect, they should be constructed with here; and I may say that they will be more com- especial reference to light, ventilation, and econ petent, for they will have, what we have not, ample omy of space. That this should be paramount to time to consider the matter carefully, to look at it in all other considerations, and this is believed to be all its bearings, and with knowledge molded by more effectually secured by a quadrangular buildcircumstances, decide whether it is to the interesting with an open court in the center, which is the or the wish of the people of the State that the form adopted by the commissioners, than the work should be suspended, and if so, for what Grecian temple and other forms which, however length of time, or whether it should or should suited to the purposes for which they were origi not be abandoned altogether. My friend from nally intended, or however beautiful or imposing. Ulster [Mr. Hardenburgh] says, how can we jus- are not especially well adapted to the wants and tify the building of this Capitol-those here who exigencies of modern times. The renaissana voted against granting a certain number of mil-style admits of this quadrangular form, with lions of dollars to enlarge the public works of this State? He says, how can we justify this, after it was almost demonstrated in this body that this work was a matter of public necessity? I answer his question by saying that in my judgment the enlargement of the canal was not demonstrated to be a work of public necessity. I represent the great reservoir into which flows the products, transported by means of the canal, and feel as deep an interest as any gentleman in this Convention in the enlargement of that work, if the interest of the State demands it. My mind was perfectly free and unbiased when the subject was under discussion, and after listening to the remarkable aud Mr. M. H. LAWRENCE-It has been suggest exhaustive debate upon it in this body, the con-ed that it was modeled for a Chinese temple, from viction forced upon my mind was that the work the style of architecture. was not demanded by public-any present public- Mr. DALY-I regret again that the gentle necessity, and would not be required for twenty man's want of artistic knowledge has led him years to come. Is this question of the Capitol at into the further mistake of supposing that there all an analogous one? In the first place, do we is any thing of this character or any thing want a new building for a Capitol? The Legisla- at all resembling it in Chinese architecture. ture, quite as competent as we are, have passed The pagodas, temples and towers portrayed upon upon that question. They have decided that we the tea-cups, with which he must have been do. They have made provision for the erection familiar in his youth, might have sufficed in the of one, and have appointed commissioners. Those want of more extensive or more particular incommissioners have determined upon a plan. formation. I have only one word further to say. Excavations for the foundation of the proposed In the capital of the country at Washington we structure have been extensively made at great ex- have put up a series of public buildings as im pense, upon land presented to the State, and the posing as any to be found in any capital in the gentlemen of this Convention now propose to world; and the same kind of arguments that are take the whole subject under their consideration, addressed to us here might have been addressed and say that nothing further shall be done for with equal propriety forty years ago to the Confive years to come. "So far shalt thou go and no gress who were then sitting that they were in farther," is the edict that is to be issued from this advance of the times; that the beautiful and Convention. Now I beg leave to say, with regard spacious public building they erected was not de great beauty of external embellishment and of imposing outward effect. This is the case in the design adopted by the commissioners. It is an elaborate, and will be an expensive structure, but viewed in reference to the future of this State, is not one, in my judgment, which can be regard ed as extravagant. It is certainly very imposing, and I commiserate the want of taste and appreciation of the acquaintances of my friend from Yates [Mr. M. H. Lawrence], who supposed the drawing to be a design for a new stove which the gentleman from Albany [Mr. Corning] was about to introduce to the trade. |