account of all offices in Ireland granted for two or more lives, as five principal places had been omitted in the former return made, on his previous motion.-Agreed to. Lord Archibald Hamilton made his promised motion, for compensation to be made to the Nabob of Oude, for the losses he had sustained by the seizure of one-half of his territories, and the very embarrassed state of his finances,occasioned by the measures of the Marquis of Wellesley's government in India. No man had ventured, or could attempt to deny, that the Nabob had been treated with a degree of tyranny, oppression, cruelty, and injustice; it was therefore but an act of common equity that the British parliament should make some recompence to that prince Mr. R. Dundus, President of the Board of Controul, said, the house had, by a great majority, determined that the conduct of the Marquis Wellesley had not only been justified,but praise-worthy; which was, in his mind, a complete answer to the present question; he therefore moved the previous question. Mr. Martin supported the original motion. Mr. R. Thornton disapproved of the violent measures that were taken in Oude, because he was sure that the Nabob was ever willing to take the advice of the British ministers; and he believed the Vizier was equally willing. Upon a late debate, an hon, gentleman stood in the lobby, and was very anxiously soliciting votes. Here there was a general cry of order! order!]-He begged pardon for being so far disorderly as to all events, my brothe and character." He c friendship we shewed powers in India as ver ternal embrace of the of Bonaparte to his alli Mr. Howard disapp system of the Marquis consequence of which, territories of the compa tended, the expences e revenue by above two n The house divided, f ous question, 20; again Friday, April The Sheriffs of Londo two petitions from the L Aldermen, and Commo mon council assembled, last; one against the bill a bridge over the Thame hall, as tending to obstru vigation of the river; th favour of the bill for pre grant of places in reversio In a committee of ways Mr. Percival proposed for taking the game duti the stamp office depart collecting them along wit sessed taxes, and that S Woodcocks should in futur sidered as game: also for ting the 10 per cent. duty sessed taxes, imposed in 1806, with the rest of the taxes, and adding two pe the whole, which by drop fractional part when low, king it when it approached teger, would produce 107,0 Mr. Spencer Stanhope that he did not hear the Ri gentleman propose any pro to which all classes of persons throughout the country were subjected, by the wanton conduct of the Assessors and Surveyors of the assessed taxes, in making surcharges without any foundation. Mr. J. Jones was ready to give every support in his power to any regulation which could render the fair collection of the assessed taxes effectual; but he thought with the hon. member who spoke last, that the wanton and oppressive conduct of the surveyors and assessors in making surcharges was a very great grievance, and rendered the taxes infinitely more unpopular than they otherwise would be. He therefore hoped the right hon. gentleman would adopt some regulation in this bill, which would rid the public of such annoyance, from those officers who were really become a pest and a nuisance. He knew of a single district, in which, out of 700 surcharges so made, not above seven were confirmed. He was told upon a former occasion, that the parties aggrieved might have redress by going to law; but the remedy was worse than the disease. A laugh! Mr. Percival observed, that the evasion of taxes were so gross in numerous instances, partly through concealment by the parties taxed, and partly by collusion on the part of the taxgathers, that it was extremely necessary for the surveyors to exercise a rigid vigilance in such cases over their inferior officers. The resolution was then put and carried, and the chairman ordered to report on Monday. A variety of sums were voted for the military, canal, and civil list expences. In a committee on the petition agains the orders in council, Mr. Brougham summed up the evidence in an able and elegant speech of three hours, when Mr. Percival wishing farther evidence, the house resumed, and the Chairman obtained leave to sit again on Monday, when Mr. Angerstein and other witnesses are to attend. Monday, April 4. Mr. Biddulph rose, agreeably to notice, to move that Richard Whar ton, esq, having been elected chairman of the committees of ways and means and supply, be excused from giving attendance on the committee of finance, of which, previous to his appointment to the chair of the pub lic committees of this house, he had been a member, and that the name, of J. W. Ward be inserted as a meme ber of the committee of finance in his place. When he had originally the honour to suggest such a com mittee to the house, he pointed out the propriety of excluding all persons holding places under govern, ment from any share in its deliberations, and accordingly, when it was nominated, and it happened that a noble Viscount, not now in his place, was named as one, his appointment was afterwards done away, on this specific ground, that he held a sinecure in Ireland. The honourable mover was aware, it might be urged, that the hon. Gentleman to whom he objected, was not appointed to the situation he held by the government, but by the house. The motion which he had to make, was so framed, as to acknowledge this fact. But, surely, it must be allowed that the treasury bench designated and mar. ked out the person to fill that situa tion, who might be said to be under the patronage of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The honourable member confessed that the chairman of ways and means was elected by a vote of the house, but still it could not be denied, that he was proposed, and supported by the Chancellor of the Exchequer; and he wished, and the public had a right to expect, that the members of the committee of finance, should be like Cæsar's wife, not pure merely, but unsuspected. If persons once appointed members of a committee of finance, were to not be removed on account of any change in situation which they might undergo, we might see before the termination of a parliament, 24 or 25 men, who had been appointed members of that committee, because they held no office or place under government, all enjoying places or pensions before they came to make their report. If these men were to continue members of the committee, it would be equally proper that placemen should originally have been eligible; or, indeed, that no committee had been appointed. As to the office of chairman of the committee of ways and means, he conceived it to be equally objectionable as any other. He regarded it as being an office so completely at the disposal of the treasury bench, that he thought the duties of it might well be discharged by any one of the members of that bench, who had least to do, and if he found the report of the finance committee, from its tone and manner, warranted him in expecting any support to the motion, he should once more call the attention of the house to that subject. He could not suppose a man, holding such a place as this, could be a jealous guardian of the public expenditure. On the score of the duties he had to perform as chairman of the committees of the house, the hon. member was satisfied, Mr. Wharton might well be excused giving his attendance up stairs at the committee of finance. He had never seen him there but once; but he must be allowed to say, that, in consequence of his attendance that day, a report would be submitted to the house from that committee, different from what it would otherwise have been. The hon. gentleman concluded by moVing that Richard Wharton, esq. having been called to the chair of the committee of ways and means be excused from giving further attendance on the committee of finance, and that the name of the honourable John William Ward be put upon that committee in his stead." Mr. Perceval contended that there was no instance of any thing of the kind now contended for having been done. It was peculiarly uncalled for in the present case, where the office was conferred, not by the government, but by the house. It was distinctly under the eye of the house, that a noble Lord not now present was a member of that committee, while at the same time he held the office of the chancellor of the exchequer. If the honourable mover entertained the laudable ambition of himself serving the country by dedicating his time and abilities to public affairs, he was guilty of a kind of policy in thus sanctioning the idea that no public man could be disinterested, or could act with zeal in the service of the country, while he held any office of emolu ment. narrow Mr. Whitbread agreed with the right hon. gentleman in deprecating the idea that every placeman must be a man of bad character. An office of trust well and faithfully executed was unquestionably a post of honour. It was only because offices were not always faithfully executed that placemen grew into disrepute. As to the allusion to his noble friend, not now in the house (Lord H. Petty), it was not by his request he had been nominated a member of the committee of finance; but that appointment had taken place specifically under the direction of the chair. He never did attend, however, and expressed his determination not to attend, conscious as he was, that he was disqualified by the office he held from being a member of such a commit tee. He (Mr. Whitbread) had been a member of that committee, and he recollected a reason assigned for not naming him on the renewed list, was, that he was at that time par ticularly occupied with other mat ters, on the fate of which, he was Mr. H. Browne conceived the motion of the hon. member to be founded merely on adulation of publuc prejudice, which ought to be despised. He therefore opposed the motion.. The hon. J. IV. Ward after declaring that the motion was made without his concurrence, begged that so far, at least, as he was concerned, it might not be pushed to a division. Mr. Ponsonby considered the question as having no reference whatever to the person holding the office, but as applying solely to the office itself. He thought the chairman of the committee of ways and means an office quite incompatible with the duties and feelings of a member of a committee of finance, who should hold no situation by which he could be at all actuated on one side or another. The right honourable gentleman opposite (Mr. Perceval) must be aware, that, if he were to be proposed as a witness in a case in which he was interested to the extent of half-a-crown, the judge, though he might know well how little effect such a consideration could have on his mind, must and would reject his testimony, because so was the law. So, without imputing any thing improper to a person holding an office, or supposing that therefore he had a greater liability to err, such a junction of characters seemed to him to be, on general principles, irreconcilable. Mr. Biddulph said the right hon. ,gentleman opposite (Mr. Perceval) had seemed to question him as to his acceptance of place or emolument. He should tell that right hon. gen motion 21-Against it 7 In a committee on t against the orders in c dence was heard in supp orders. To be proce Thursday. Mr. Perceval stated intention, that not snipe cocks alone, but likewise of warren, should be su game laws. Mr. Calcraft said, r often a great nuisance to who ought to be allow them on his own lands asked the minister if it intention to comprehend rows, and black birds also sons were to be permitt at all without taking ou Tuesday, April Being unable to find number of members liab lotted for as a committe Newry election petition, of course adjourned. Wednesday, Apr Mr. Huskisson stated plus on the consolidated former year had been which was thought a gre The surplus for the last ever, was no less than 4 and the surplus for the ending, exceeded that o ponding quarter for the by S00,000l. He then m account of the surplus lidated fund for the yea 5th of April 1808. Or A conversation took the propriety of going for preventing reversio when the committee w · Mr. C. W. Wynne obtained leave to bring in a bill for the better cure and maintenance of pauper and criminal lunatics. Thursday, April 7. On the motion for the second reading of the new assessed taxes bill. Mr. Biddulph and Mr. Tierney objected to it, on the ground that no new taxes had been voted, but that this bill imposed them, white it professed only to be a bill of regulation. The bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed for Monday, with an understanding that it was to be printed, and not carried farther till after the recess. The house went into a committee on the bill for preventing the granting of offices in reversion. Mr. Perceval abandoned the amendments of which he had formerly given notice. Sir J Newport observed, that the abuses in Ireland were enormous, be knew of places three deep in rever ston; for instance, the storekeeper of the port of Dublin to three infants. The salary attached to that office is 2,3001. per annum, and the whole duty of it was performed by deputy for a small gratuity. The office of wine-taster, which had been laid aside for three centuries, had been revived in favour of the right hon J. Beresford, with a salary of 1000l. per annum, with a reversion to his children, though there was no duty of any kind to perform. He said it would be endless to go through all the variety of offices connected with the revenue in Ireland, which had been reversion sinecures, and besides stood in the way of the public benefit. Of these were the comptroller of duties in the port of Cork, where the principal had 1000l. and the deputy, who alune did the duty, had 3001. per annum. The right hon. member enumerated other local offices of a similar description, and added, that it would be enough to say to the other house, you have had all these abuses presented to you in the report of a committee, to shew the expediency of preventing the grant of reversions. But if the law department of Ireland were looked into, the grants would be found still more enormous; and instead of oue or two thousand, some would be found to rise to eight or nine thou sand pounds a year. There had also been various compensations of the most shameful kind granted for the loss of offices by the Union; and it was well known that the board of compensation had sat three weeks considering what compensation should be given to the king's rat-catcher.— The hon. gentleman then alluded to those means of influence and corruption by which he said the Union was brought about, and related an anecdote of a certain noble lord, whom he was sorry not to see in his place, having urged a friend to accept an office only for a year, in order that he might be entitled to some compensation on the loss of it.-The right hon. member pledged himself that he was prepared to bring all these things to hight and establish them in the com mittee, if the house should think fil. The administration which brought about the Union, was tenaciously scru pulous of adhering to the fulfilment of every job, but had not kept one pledge which they had given to the Irish public! On the whole, what he had stated, and what he had alluded to, shewed the necessity of absolutely preventing the granting reversions. Mr. Biddulph had no doubt of the beneficial effects the public would ultimately derive from the abolishing of useless offices. Lord Palmerstone was surprised that any bill which embraced a fipancial reform should meet with the slightest opposition. The public had a right to look to that house, and he trusted, by a manly perseverance, they would disregard the frowns of princes. |