man, representing Mr. Adel, concurred in that opinion. Having asked questions as to the practical execution of the work, and obtaining a variety of information which we thought necessary, the four gentlemen were requested to retire. As they left the room, but before they left, Mr. Lord handed a paper to the chairman of the committee, which is contained in the statement which has been read. After they had left the room the paper was read to the committee, containing an offer on the part of Lord and Pitman to do the work for $1.25 per thousand ems.

It was understood and agreed between all the members of the committee that the character of the paper handed the chairman by Mr. Lord was such that a disclosure of its contents would be a breach of confidence; and we agreed, each with the other, to keep to ourselves the knowledge of the contents of that paper. So far as I know or have the means of knowing, that agreement has been sacredly kept by every member of the committee. Yet I believe it to be true that by an accident, without intention on the part of one of the members of the committee, an inference was drawn subsequently by one of these candidates for reporter, which put him in possession of the true facts in regard to the bid of Lord and Pitman.

I left the city that afternoon, and was absent several days, leave of absence being granted me by the Convention. Upon my return to Columbus I found to my surprise that the fact that Lord and Pitman had offered to do this work for $1,25 per thousand ems, was known to their competitors, and was largely known throughout this Convention. And I was then informed that, as has been stated here, an accidental statement by one of the members of the committee of the probable cost of doing this work, made in discussion, perhaps with a fellow member in the cars, had been overheard by one of the other candidates for the reporting, and he had drawn an inference from that conversation that there must be a bid from Lord and Pitman at the rate of $1,25 per thousand ems, and that he had informed Lord and Pitman of his discovery, and had informed others. It certainly is true that before formal bids were received from any of these candidates, I received information that it was known to all the candidates that Lord and Pitman proposed to do the work for $1,25 per thousand ems.

evening of last week, before the formal bids
were given to the committee or read by them,
all these candidates for reporting were cogni-
zant of the fact that $1,25 per thousand ems had
been named by Lord and Pitman as their price.
That much I know.

cent cause of all this discussion concerning the
Mr. HILL. I have, perhaps, been the inno-
employment of a reporter. That the Conven-
tion may know my connection with the trans-
action to the full extent of the facts, it is due
that I should state that a portion of the facts
alluded to by the gentleman from Hamilton
[Mr. HOADLY] are accurate and correct. The
statement that Mr. Lord, at the second meeting
of the Committee, presented a sealed proposi-
tion, is true. The contents of that sealed prop-
osition, I think, were improperly communicated
to the Committee at that time, because I believe
we were not authorized at that time to take any
bids into consideration. All the matter prior
to that time had been informal. We had simply
invited the reporters there in order to ascertain,
as nearly as possible, what would be the expense
of this reporting. Various estimates were made,
one, I believe, as high as $2.10 per thousand
ems, and one as low as $1.40. That, I believe,
was the lowest sum mentioned up to the time
that the sealed proposition was handed to the
Chairman of the Committee by Mr. Lord, just
as the applicants were about to leave the room.
In a whisper, in a very quiet way, the gentle-
man from Hamilton [Mr. HOADLY] insisted upon
having that proposition opened at that time. I
was at some little distance from the table, and
only caught, casually, the contents of that
proposition.

I understood, of course, the duty of the Committee to observe secrecy concerning everything that had taken place in committee. The informal interview we had with these applicants I did not understand to be a matter of secrecy at all. On my way home that Friday evening the gentleman from Crawford [Mr. BEER] said something to me, as we were in the cars, about the expense of reporting and publishing these debates. He alluded to the fact that the expense would be very great, and estimated it from ten to twenty thousand dollars for two volumes. I told him I thought the expense of reporting had been exaggerated; that he had not had the data upon which to form a correct opinion; that, in my opinion, and from my I believe that I have stated the facts; I have knowledge of reporting, the reporting could be tried to do so accurately, as far as they are with- done for this Convention at $1.40 per thousand in my knowledge. I have no knowledge what-ems, perhaps as low as $1.30 or $1.25. At the ever of the possible or probable accident which disclosed this information to these candidates, except that I took the pains to go to the member of the committee who was said to have had the conversation which was overheard, and found that he was of opinion that nothing that fell from his lips would justify any such conclusion as is claimed to have been drawn. I do not wish what I have said to be regarded as in any respect, even the very slightest, as an imputation upon that gentleman of having said anything which he ought not to have said. As I said before, I believe that every member of that committee kept his faith in the fullest degree. But what I do know as a fact is, that when I returned to Columbus on Thursday

time I did not notice the fact that Mr. Weaver, one of the applicants for the reporting, sat one or two seats before me in the car. It seems that this matter was caught up by that gentleman, and was communicated as if I had revealed some secret belonging to the Committee. I have had a conversation with Mr. Weaver, today, since conversations and communications are in order, and he says he is willing to take an oath that what he heard of that conversation did not inflence his bid; that he will state that I made no communication to him whatever that revealed a precise sum, and that he never obtained such information from me, or inferred from what I said in that conversation that this work could be done at a lower price. All this froth

HOADLY, HILL, DORSEY, MUELLER, FORAN.

and foam has grown from that circumstance. Nothing was indicated to that gentleman, or to any other gentleman who proposed to report these debates.

I think, myself, that the work could be done for $1.10 per thousand; I think it could be done decently for $1.25; but Mr. Adel comes in and offers to do it for 90 cents, and I think that since it has been shown that he is competent, we should take his bid.

It is alleged that he has not full notes of our proceedings up to this time. I understand that he has full notes from a gentleman who represents him in this Convention. I do not know how he obtained them. But if so, we lose nothing by accepting the proposition of the gentleman from Hamilton [Mr. HOADLY] that we receive the three or four reports and select the best, provided we pay for it only 90 cts. per thousand ems. I would not be willing to go beyond that. These are the facts as I recollect them. The gentleman from Crawford [Mr. BEER] will recollect the conversation. I never communicated anything of the kind stated to

Mr. HOADLY. As I have figured it, calculating a page 3,200 ems, the difference of 35 cts. per thousand makes a difference of $1.12 per page, which would make a difference of $890 per volume.

I

[WEDNESDAY,

does this Convention care about what happened before that committee? If these competitors did not act fairly between themselves what has this Convention to do with it? If I am to vote against this report, I want some member of this Convention to state that this Adel who is named in it, is not competent. I shall not vote for the report merely because we will thereby save thirty-five cents on a thousand ems. I want these men to have their full pay. But if Mr. Adel, against whom no charge of incompetency has been made, against whose ability and faithfulness not one word has been said, is willing to do this work for ninety cents per thousand ems, why should I vote to give it to another at $1.25? I can see no reason for that. That is not the way I understand retrenchment. There was a resolution offered here the other day to pay $3.00 per day to a porter, and an amendment was offered to reduce it to $2.50. Now if that was proper, I can see no propriety in our paying a higher rate in the matter of reporting, making a difference of several thousand dollars to the Convention. For this reason I shall vote for the report of the committee.

Mr. FORAN. I did not intend to say anything on this subject. But it seems to me that the gentleman from Miami [Mr. DORSEY] and the gentleman from Hamilton [Mr. HOADLY] are taking extraordinary pains to force upon this Convention the election, appointment or selection, whatever you may term it, of Messrs. Lord and Pitman as reporters. I know nothing whatever about these gentlemen and would perhaps be as willing to vote for them as anybody else.

Mr. HOADLY. I ask leave to correct the gentleman. I have made no argument on the question of who shall be employed. I made a statement of facts, and I also took pleasure in correcting what I knew to be a misapprehension about Mr. Adel. I have not said a word on the merits of this resolution.

Mr. FORAN. I stand corrected.

Mr. HILL. It would make a difference per page of three times 35 cts. per thousand, with an addition for the fraction of 200 ems. have made an estimate at both rates. If gentlemen will turn to the Auditor's report, page Mr. DORSEY. I desire to say that I have 96, they will find a page containing about 1,500 not urged by one single word the appointment ems. The debates of the former Convention of any gentleman as reporter; I have abstained contain 3,200 ems to the page. Now 90 cts. per from so doing. On the statement of facts that thousand for 3,000 ems would amount to $2.70. has been made I have offered a substitute for Take a book of 700 pages, and at $2.70 per page this resolution; but I have purposely abstained the reporting would amount to $1,890. For from saying one word in its favor. two volumes you must double that, and you get the price for 1,400 pages. The cost of printing I have estimated at 75 cts. per thousand ems, including the press work, binding and printing. At these rates the reporting, printing and bindingof a volume of 700 pages would amount to $3,465. Two volumes of that size would amount to twice that sum, or $6,930.

Mr. DORSEY. Without intending in any degree to impugn the motives of the committee, I offer the following substitute for the first resolution of the committee as now amended;

Resolved, That Messrs. Lord and Pitman be and they are hereby employed as reporters to the Convention at the rate of $1 25 per thousand ems, on their executing to the State of Ohio a bond in the sum of $5,000, with sufficient sureties to be approved by the President of the Convention, conditioned for the faithful discharge of the duties of their position.

Mr. FORAN. I take the resolution to mean as I have said. If our debates here will cover as much matter as the debates of the Illinois Convention, and from the manner in which we are now proceeding I am free to say they will, they will amount to 11,400,000 ems. Now taking the difference between the bid of Mr. Adel, and the bid of Lord & Pitman, it will make a difference of $3,990.

So far as Mr. Weaver is concerned, I desire to say that I had a conversation when going home with him Saturday evening. We discussed the matter of bidding for the reporting of the proceedings of the Convention. I told him that having considered the whole matter very thoroughly, I thought that $1,00 per thousand ems would be sufficient; that that price would give him $11,400 provided the debates of Mr. MUELLER. Up to this time I have this Convention amounted to as much as the Ilwaited to hear any reason given why the report | linois debates did, and that out of that he could of the committee should not be adopted. What save at least two or three thousand dollars.

MAY 28, 1873.] O'CONNOR, Foran, CarBERY, Cook, Mueller, Dorsey.

Mr. Weaver thought he would put his bid at $1,00 per thousand ems, and I think he told me that he would do so. Now if it is in order I would like to offer a substitute for the entire report of the Committee.

The PRESIDENT. There is an amendment now pending, being a substitute for the first resolution of the report from the committee. Mr. O'CONNOR. I think it would be in order for the gentleman to offer a substitute for the substitute, that is an amendment to an amendment.

The PRESIDENT. Before a substitute for the whole report can be received and acted upon, it is proper for the Convention to perfect the several resolutions contained in the report.

Mr. FORAN. My reason for wishing to offer the substitute is this; if the vote is taken by yeas and nays, some of us might have to vote in favor of one or other of these gentlemen, and there might be a disposition manifested to deal more leniently with some than with others. For that reason I wish that the Convention might elect a reporter and afterwards determine his compensation.

The PRESIDENT. When these several resolutions shall have been perfected by the Convention, a substitute for the entire report would be in order. But until the Convention has perfected as far as possible the several resolutions reported by the committee, a substitute for the entire report would not be in order.

formation had improperly leaked out, I then should feel myself compelled, as a person voting away the public money, to record my vote in favor of the lowest bidder. But under the circumstances I shall feel compelled to vote for the substitute of the gentleman from Miami [Mr. DORSEY] for the reasons I have stated.

Mr. COOK. I am not prepared to vote for either of these propositions, for by adopting one of them it seems to me that we would not only be doing one of these gentlemen injustice, but possibly doing the State injustice. In my judgment the only fair way is to re-commit this entire subject to the Committee on Reporting and Publication, with instructions to them to receive new propositions. If there is competition between these applicants, it can only be settled by their again submitting propositions. We certainly ought not to throw away any advantage which the State has acquired without any fault on her part. But if one of these parties has been under-bid by another improperly obtaining knowledge of his bid, the whole matter should be set aside, and the question re-opened, and bids received anew. I therefore move that this whole subject be recommitted to the Committee on Reporting and Publication, with instructions to open the whole matter and receive bids anew for reporting the proceedings of this Convention.

Mr. MUELLER. I rise to a question of order. The motion to re-commit would simply Mr. BARNET. I would suggest to the gen- be in order; but a motion to re-commit with tleman to read his substitute for our informa-instructions, amounts to an amendment. There tion, before we proceed to vote.

The PRESIDENT. The gentleman can read for information.

Mr. FORAN. This is the substitute which I desire to offer.

Resolved, That this Convention immediately proceed to elect a reporter or stenographer whose duty it shall be to make a verbatim report of the debates and proceedings thereof; and that said stenographer or reporter receive as compensation for his services for each thousand ems of the matter written out and properly prepared for the printer, and that the said reporter be subject to such further conditions as the Convention may see fit to im

pose.

The PRESIDENT. That would not be in order now. The pending question is upon the substitute offered by the gentleman from Miami [Mr. Dorsey].

is now a resolution before the Committee and pending an amendment to it. This motion to re-commit with instructions, contains another amendment. So far as it is more than a simple motion to re-commit it is out of order.

The PRESIDENT. The Chair is of the opinion that the point of order is not well taken, but that a motion to re-commit with instructions, is in order.

Mr. DORSEY. I trust that the Convention will dispose of this subject at once, and that the motion to re-commit will not prevail. In justice to all the gentlemen concerned the Convention ought to dispose of this matter at once; and they can dispose of it to-day just as well as at any other time, just as properly to-day as they can upon another report of the Committee. The gentleman from Cuyahoga [Mr. FORAN] has intimated a desire to offer a substitute for the entire report, which the Chair very properly decided could not be offered at this time. If the gentleman will do what he can do properly, that is, offer it as a substitute for mine it will be perfectly in order. I would be willing to accept his substitute for my own, and that would bring the matter at all events before the Convention. Having, therefore, indicated to the Convention the course they can adopt to bring this matter speedily to a decision, I hope the motion to re-commit will not be sustained.

Mr. CARBERY. I cannot see any very great difficulty in the Convention determining now by vote who shall be the official reporter of this body. That determination may be the rejection of the person recommended by the Committee on Reporting. It is not an unusual thing for a body like this to substitute another name for one contained in a report; and such action is very often predicated upon the general character of parties in competition. In this case something has happened accidentally which throws a little doubt npon the minds of some, upon my mind at all events, as to the propriety of retaining the name of the person recommended by the Committee on Reporting and Publication. By a singular accident, or by Mr. CARBERY. I understand the question quite as singular an intuition, some information now to be upon the motion of the gentleman appears to have reached some of these gentle- from Wood [Mr. Cook] to re-commit with inmen which they ought not to have had. If structions. I move to amend his motion so as Messrs. Lord and Pitman and their competitors further to instruct the committee not to receive appeared before us upon a perfectly equal foot-proposals from any party or parties who are not ing, and there was no suspicion that any in- in possession of full verbatim reports of the

WEST, DORSEY.

proceedings of this Convention, from the commencement of its sessions.

Mr. WEST. That might limit the bids to a single individual, and if so we would be at his mercy. Each of these gentlemen I presume knows exactly what notes the others have taken of the proceedings of this Convention. If Mr. Adel should happen to find out that the other gentlemen did not have full notes of our proceedings from the beginning, he might raise his bid from ninety cents to $1.50, and we would be obliged to take it. Or if Lord and Pitman have notes from the first of our sessions and the other gentlemen do not have them, they could put up their bid to $1.75, and we would be at their mercy. I am not in favor of any such proposition; I would rather omit a little of the commencement of our proceedings than to be at the mercy of any of these gentlemen.

[WEDNESDAY,

These competitors accidentally ascertained, from an inference, a reasonable probability that the bid of Lord and Pitman was about so much. Now those gentlemen should not have disclosed their bid, should not have enclosed it to the Committee till the proper time. They ought to have waited until the Convention had determined to employ a reporter, and then enclosed their bid at the proper time to the Convention. But they did it in advance, and it seems that, in some way, some information got out in regard to it. Now, what do Mr. Weaver and Mr. Adel do? The paper that was read here shows that they went to these men, and communicated to them the fact that they knew what their bid was before they themselves put in their bids. There was no concealment on their part; they went to Pitman and Lord and said, "We know what your bid is," - before they put their own bids in the hands of the Convention.

The next think that strikes me, is that it would be exceedingly novel, and I think that probably is characterizing it in as mild terms as the circumstances will justify-it would be whole matter to the committee, to have the And now it is proposed to re-commit this exceedingly novel for this Convention to adopt whole thing opened again, and to invite further a proposition involving the employment of a bids for the committee to act upon. Why reporter at $1.25 per thousand ems, when we should we not do that? It will be simply have a proposition from a competent reporter stamping the proceedings so far had as dishonto do the same work at ninety cents per thou- orable, when no man dares stand up in his sand ems. I do not know any of these gentle- place here and say that any member of the commen, I do not know one of them better than mittee, or any gentleman connected with this another. But I do not see why we should sur-matter has been guilty in the slightest degree render ninety cents per thousand and pay $1.25 of any dishonorable act. I will not vote to per thousand. What is the pretext for it? It throw this matter open again, because if I do, is urged upon the assumption that there has I simply say by my vote that somebody, either been what some gentlemen here have charac- a member of the committee, or some of these terized as "smouzling." gentlemen reporters, have acted dishonorably. I will not by my vote put the stamp of dishonor ness of this Convention, if I know it, unless he upon any gentleman connected with the busiis guilty.

Mr. HOADLY. What is that?
Mr. WEST. Skulduggery.

Mr. HOADLY. Well, what does that mean? Mr. WEST. I do not know what it means, but that is what I heard talked about here. Now there has been nothing disclosed to the discredit or dishonor of either Mr. Weaver or Mr. Adel in this entire transaction; not one syllable. At the time these gentlemen were called before the committee there had been no conclusion reached by the Convention that a reporter should be employed. The committee were simply seeking information as a basis upon which to make a recommendation for the employment of a reporter. Messrs. Lord and Pitman then and there communicated to the committee their opinion that it was worth $1 40 per thousand ems to do this reporting, and they made no other information to the committee. They handed in a sealed proposition at the same time-that is the testimony--in which they proposed to do it for $1 25 per thousand ems. But their public declaration was that it was worth $1 40. Now what was their object in that? Why it might be said that their object was that the other competitors might find out that they had proposed $1 40, and then they would bid the one perhaps $1 35 and the other $1 30, and these men would come in and get it at $1 25. Now I do not say that this was improper in those gentlemen; they had the right to do so. But nothing that Mr. Weaver has done in the slightest degree implicates his honor. And nothing that has been disclosed here implicates the honor or integrity of any member of the committee.

And I will not vote to re-commit this matter, nor will I vote to pay $1.25, when a competent man, with an honorable kind of bid, has proposed to do it for 90 cents, thus making a saying in the transaction to the treasury of from $2,000 to $3,000. What can we say to our constituents, if we go home and tell them that we rejected an honorable proposition by a competent man to do the work for 90 cts. per thousand ems, for the purpose of paying $1.25? I shall not vote to re-commit, but I shall vote for the employment of Mr. Adel.

Mr. DORSEY. I must say that I am very much surprised at the speech of the gentleman from Logan [Mr. WEST]. I venture to say that no gentleman in this body has heard any intimation from any one, or from any paper read before the Convention, or from any remark made here, that any improper or dishonorable act whatever has been committed by any member of the committee whose work is at the present time under consideration. Nothing of the kind has been intimated. I apprehend that not an idea of the kind has entered the mind of any other gentleman in the Convention. And it does seem to me that remarks of this kind are calculated to prejudice the action of the Convention, and to prevent them from doing that which they ought to do in the premises.

Now what this Convention should do is not for me to say; but I do say what this Convention is capable now of doing, and without any re