Mr. MARTIN. Where are those lines located-are they concentrated in certain areas or throughout the country?

Mr. MILLER. No; those short lines are in 46 of the 48 States in the Union, generally in the class II and class III tariffs.

Mr. MARTIN. Does that complete your statement?

Mr. MILLER. Yes.

Mr. MARTIN. Thank you very much.

Mr. MILLER. Thank you.

Mr. MARTIN. I have just been told by the clerk that the transcript of today's testimony will be available for correction to witnesses in Mr. Pettengill's office from 10 until 5 tomorrow.

Now, I am advised by the clerk that this concludes the testimony of the proponents of the bill and that the opponents will not be ready to proceed tomorrow. Now, that would carry us over to Saturday, and we have so many things to do that I think it well not to try to sit on Saturday.

Mr. O'BRIEN. I cannot be here.

Mr. MARTIN. So I assume that when we adjourn this afternoon, which will be shortly, we will adjourn until Monday morning at 10 sharp.

As long as we cannot go ahead tomorrow, the opposition not being ready, we will go on Monday at 10. I think perhaps the schedule may be concluded; perhaps we may be able to finish next week with the opponents. We perhaps can finish with that feature.

We are going to hear now from Mr. W. D. Johnson, national legislative representative, Order of Railway Conductors.

STATEMENT OF W. D. JOHNSON, VICE PRESIDENT AND NATIONAL LEGISLATIVE REPRESENTATIVE, ORDER OF RAILWAY CONDUCTORS, WASHINGTON, D. C.

Mr. JOHNSON. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, my name is W. D. Johnson, national legislative representative, Order of Railway Conductors, Washington, D. C.

Mr. Chairman, I feel that I owe the committee an apology, and I desire to make it at this time. As you recall, I requested Tuesday evening for a little time for the benefit of a witness, a member of our organization, who has devoted a great deal of his time in the interest of this bill, coming here from Salt Lake City. However, since the request was made it has developed that it is impossible for Mr. Wilson to appear.

There is another witness from that particular territory who will appear and furnish the committee with the information that would have been furnished by Mr. Wilson.

Mr. Harrison, as chairman of the Chief Executives' Association, comprising the 21 standard railway labor organizations, appeared and testified in support of this bill in behalf of the association.

The Order of Railway Conductors is a member of the association referred to, and I desire to concur in everything that has been said. by Mr. Harrison and other proponents who appeared in behalf of this particular bill.

However, I also desire, as vice president and national legislative representative of the Order of Railway Conductors, to individually endorse the Pettengill bill, H. R. 3263.

The Order of Railway Conductors have for some time been very much interested in this particular piece of legislation and we have studied it from every viewpoint; and we feel that, as conductors, we are very vitally interested in this particular legislation, because in the past few years we have seen a great deal of the tonnage once transported on the rails diverted to other means of transportation. The other means of transportation have very greatly increased their efficiency in the last few years, which has worked a severe handicap on the rail-transportation system.

We are in strict accord with the rails in supporting this particular piece of legislation. However, in our eagerness for the passage of this bill we have no desire whatever to drive any other transportation system out of the transportation business. We are only asking the Congress of the United States, which is responsible for the restrictions which are now applied to the railroads, to enact a bill that will relieve the railroads of some of the restrictions which are no longer reasonable.

As you well know, Mr. Chairman, in the early days of railroading the handicaps of the transportation system in those days could be very easily met by the railroads. But since the development of highway transportation, air transportation, and the improvement of the water transportation, we are forced to continue to operate under a severe handicap, which is depriving us of a right and a privilege which we feel rightfully belongs to the railroad industry.

I am satisfied that in the event of the railroads and the employees appearing before the Congress of the United States with a bill or a petition requesting the Congress to grant us the right to discontinue the rail transportation system of this country, that we would be denied that right, and rightfully so.

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, in view of the fact that the rail transportation system is absolutely necessary to carry on the transportation of the United States, we now come to you with an earnest request that you favor us to the end that you will, in view of the fact that we are forced to remain in the transportation business, that you give us just an even break with the other transportation systems, and if we fail therein, then we will have no one to blame but ourselves.

I feel confident, Mr. Chairman, that the railroads are absolutely sincere in the request they are making, and if their request is granted. I am satisfied that they will be fair to the extent that they will not try in any way to abuse the privileges which may be afforded them under the Pettengill bill, H. R. 3263.

I thank you.

Mr. MARTIN. Thank you very much for your statement. Mr. Johnson.

We will next hear from Mr. John T. Corbett, national legislative representative, Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers.

I understand that Mr. Corbett arranged the other day to present another witness after he himself has made a statement.

STATEMENT OF JOHN T. CORBETT, NATIONAL LEGISLATIVE REPRESENTATIVE, BROTHERHOOD OF LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEERS, WASHINGTON, D. C.

Mr. CORBETT. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, my name is John T. Corbett. I am national legislative representative, Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers, Washington, D. C.

I appeared before you on Tuesday, requesting the privilege of making a short statement and introducing a member of my organization, the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers, from the State of Utah, who has made considerable study of the conditions, under which the employees are and have been subjected, partially through the restriction placed on them through section 4 of the Interstate Commerce Act, from which they are at present asking relief through the Pettengill bill.

Mr. Harrison, Mr. Johnson, Mr. Farquharson, and Mr. Lovell, who have preceded me-all of them have given a recital of the general effect on the employees of the railroads because of these restrictions. Mr. Johnson, who has just preceded me, has made a specific request that you give consideration to what seems to me to be an exceptionally fair request; and that is that you give the railroads and their employees merely a square deal. We do not feel at the present time that we are getting it; and, Mr. Chairman, in that respect we do not feel that the Congress in passing this legislation over for some several sessions of Congress has given us what we think should have been given to us.

We have had inquiries from all over the country as to why we have had this introduced; and knowing that practically all communities are in favor of it-we know that the railroads favor it, we know that while we do not have the exact percentage of commercial groups which have voted for it or against it, it is my understanding that the commercial groups have expressed, by an exceptionally big majority, their favorable consideration of this particular piece of legislation.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Has this subject been brought to the Congress before?

Mr. CORBETT. Yes.

Mr. O'BRIEN. What happened to it?

Mr. CORBETT. It has been brought up at the first session that I acted as representative of this group, in the Seventy-third Congress; and as I recall, it was H. R. 8100.

no.

Mr. O'BRIEN. What happened to it?

Mr. CORBETT. Well, it did not pass.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Was it brought up on the floor of the House?

Mr. CORBETT. I do not know that it was on the floor of the House;

Mr. O'BRIEN. Do you know if it ever got out of the committee? Mr. CORBETT. I do not think it did; no. That is one thing that we are unable to account for. We believe that it has real benefit; and as far as we know, there is very, very little opposition to it. That is our belief.

Mr. O'BRIEN. I have not heard any opposition to it. I suppose we will when we are given an opportunity.

Mr. CORBETT. No doubt there will be from certain commercial groups that are not fully acquainted with all the benefits that we believe would come to them if the bill were passed.

Mr. Harrison, representing the 21 standard railroad labor organizations, recited the injustices that are being done to the railroads and their employees. You have heard a recital of the difference in pay that is given the railroad employees as against the employees on boats.

Now the remark has been made that subsidies are being given to shipping interests, and I am sure that that should be given considerable consideration.

All lighthouses have been erected by and are maintained by the Government, entirely at the expense of the Government. The different weather reports that are sent out from time to time for the benefit of all ships are prepared generally by Government employees, and at an expense to the taxpayers, nearly 2,000,000 of whom are employees of the railroads.

There are some tolls, it is true, received from the ships using the Panama Canal, but gentlemen, in connection with those tolls, let me call to your attention a remark made on the floor of the House of Representatives on February 18, by Congressman Lea of California. You will recall that he has introduced a bill to endeavor to correct what happens to be an injustice to the railroad employees, as well as others, that come in competition with boats, and I refer now to his statement that there are 2,800,000 tons of merchandise passing through the Canal each year on which there are no tolls being paid. You will recall at that time considerable recital was made to the effect that the payment of tolls to the Panama Canal is on a space basis, and tonnage is not given consideration; and you will recall that there was a recital of the fact that the space is the lower deck, naturally, and that in some cases, at least, boats had only recently lowered their decks that they might lessen the space on which they were required to pay tolls; and you will also recall at that time that there was considerable information furnished to the effect that a large percentage of the tonnage of the shipping was carried above the decks, on which there was absolutely no toll being paid to the Government. Now, all of that we consider as an unfair subsidy, and we believe that the railroads properly are entitled to a fair remuneration for the investments that they have made. We submit that if they are needed-if in the neighborhood of $6,000,000,000 is needed-we will assume, then, is needed-and if you give $1,000,000,000 of that to unregulated busses and trucks and another equally large amount to unregulated boats some method must be developed, certainly, to get that money; and inasmuch as the only way that they can get it back in order to meet their expenses-the only manner in which they have is for them to raise their rates on merchandise that is left to them to be handled by them.

In addition to the subsidy mentioned that has been furnished the boats, there are excessive mail contracts that have also been referred to as an unfair subsidy.

I have a peculiar and particular interest in the long-and-shorthaul clause, and the effect of the Panama Canal, for the reason that when the Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul Railroad built their extension to the West coast, I was one of the employees who went there

and helped build it, and I was there until the spring of 1910. I am very familiar with the prospects that were held up before them when they spent the millions of dollars that it took to build that railroad, and it seems to me almost a calamity to think that after they had spent those millions of dollars in building up one of the finest railroads running to the West from the Lakes, the Panama Canal took away practically all of that business, and they had to reduce their schedule between those points until now they are operating about one train a day in each direction.

Now, it is, of course, true that what we are asking here would not give us entire relief, but we believe it would give considerable relief. The question that we believe is before you is whether or not Congress would give favorable consideration to permitting the railroads to have the same opportunity that is given other means of transportation, either by removing the restrictions that are on them or by adding to the restrictions that the others have. Now, we appreciate the fact that to endeavor to add restrictions to the others would meet with opposition; and for that reason we believe that favorable consideration should be given this particular bill, and we hope sincerely that this committee and this Congress will endeavor to have it passed as quickly as it is possible to pass it.

It may be that some remark might be made about the employees of the railroads in this particular bill, and if such is done it seems proper to recite to you that Congressman Shannon had a committee that held investigations of protest of the Government being in business, and that there were 300 different organizations that spoke against the restrictions that were given them and the privileges that were given to others.

We believe in this case that the Government is partially in the transportation business when it furnishes highways over which the busses and trucks may operate, and when it dredges out ditches and makes canals of them and then builds transportation systems on which is transported business that we really believe should be given to the railroads.

Now, all of that is unfair to railroad employees, and against it we wish to enter a protest, and again we appeal to you to give this particular bill consideration and give us the relief which is asked for at the earliest date possible.

Now, at the beginning of my remarks I stated that we had an employee from the State of Utah; and at this time I wish to introduce to you Mr. Pell, who is an officer in the State Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers in the State of Utah.

Mr. MARTIN. Thank you very much for your statement, Mr. Corbett.

Mr. CORBETT. Thank you.

Mr. MARTIN. We will be glad to hear from Mr. Pell.

STATEMENT OF W. 0. PELL, OGDEN, UTAH

Mr. PELL. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, my name is W. O. Pell. My address is 321 Twentieth Street, Ogden, Utah. I am employed as an engineer on the Southern Pacific Lines out of Ogden. I am chairman of the Utah unit of the western conference committee of the standard railroad labor organizations. This com