Brother Smith to give us canal boats that would carry 40,000 bushels, the owner of the boat could hold that grain in New York for ten days. He could hold it without any inconvenience or loss. If I have four or five boats making up 40,000 bushels and there is five dollars on each boat, you can see how easily a loss is incurred.

Q. Who imposes those additional charges for demurrage? A. The owner of the boat, because he compels the consignee to act in discharging the boat; if he does not discharge the boat he has to pay demurrage.

By Commissioner Smith:

Q. Isn't it a fact that he bases his charge upon what he could earn in transportation? A. I cannot see where he makes any money. I think the canal situation is pretty well antiquated, rather against him than for him.

By Mr. Fairchild:

Q. You would say that the only remedy for the charge of demurrage would be some facilities for the discharge of that grain other than now exist, so that the boat could go back? A. It is not possible at the present time.

Q. Nevertheless that charge and the necessity for that charge is one of the things that operates against grain coming by canal? A. Yes, sir.

Q. That is one of the reasons why grain merchants prefer to receive their grain by rail instead of by canal? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now you have stated that you are the chairman of the canal committee of this Produce Exchange. Has the exchange taken any official action regarding the different propositions for the improvement of the canal? A. Well every year there is a new canal committee appointed and the committee of this year have not yet determined upon the position in which they will stand regarding the canal matters. They are of course for an improved canal, but they have not yet determined upon what line of action they will go upon.

Q. And perhaps the Produce Exchange will take a position with reference to the different propositions that are made for the canal? A. Yes, sir. They started the nine foot proposition ten years ago. Now they find that ten years have made a big difference in railroad and canal matters.

Q. The concensus of opinion in the Produce Exchange is ultimately in favor of a barge canal? A. Yes, sir.

By Commissioner Smith:

Q. Would your official action or determination anticipate the report of the Deep Waterway Commission? A. I could not answer because the committee have not settled what they intend to do.

Q. But you expect it? A. Such action might be taken.

Q. How would you feel about a barge canal if the Deep Waterway Commission should advise the construction of a ship canal? A. If the federal government have a ship canal I do not see what we are going to do.

Q. Between the time that would be required to construct that ship canal, would it be wise to construct a barge canal? A. I think it would.

By Mr. Fairchild:

Q. Have you the figures so that you can give the percentage of grain that came to New York, of wheat and of corn, for the different years? A. I have it for two sets of years, 1895 and 1898. I think I gave you that memorandum; I have another one here.

Q. What percentage of wheat came to New York from the years 1893 to 1896, the average per year? A. Taking the six Atlantic ports, the question is as to the percentage New York received, of wheat and corn, during the period of years from 1893 to 1896, as compared with the six ports, Atlantic ports, Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Newport News and Norfolk. In those years New York received 56.13 per cent. of wheat and 32.55 per cent. of corn. In 1897, 43.83 per cent. of wheat and

23.72 per cent. of corn.

26.14 per cent. of corn.

In 1898, 55.49 per cent. of wheat and

Q. Have you the percentage of New York receipts that came by canal? A. Yes, sir. The canal receipts of 1896 amounted to 21.56 per cent. of the whole receipts of New York; in 1897 it amounted to 11.62 per cent. of the whole, and in 1898 to 12.05 per cent. of the whole. I have also the proportion for the last five months, from January to May, if you like to have that. Wheat, 49.50 per cent.; corn, 20.40 per cent. That is a falling off from last year, so far in the year.

By Commissioner Smith:

Q. Did you make a comparison of the four months of this year as compared with the four months of last year? A. No, sir.

By Mr. Fairchild:

Q. Will you examine those tables and state what they are? A. I had those compiled by Mr. Brown, the statistician of the Exchange, showing the movement of grain by rail from Buffalo during what we call the lake navigation season of 1895 and 1898, comparing that movement outward from Buffalo with the receipts by rail for those years at New York, showing thereby whatever difference there might exist between the outward at Buffalo and the inward movement by rail at New York. The deduction does not show the actual situation because the rail receipts at New York take in a large amount of grain from the initiatory points other than Buffalo.

By Commissioner Smith:

Q. A large amount? A. That is, for instance, corn and wheat from Toledo, Detroit, Peoria and other points, initiatory points, and also perhaps from nearer by points, but all given in the aggregate of the receipts at New York.

Mr. Fairchild here offered in evidence, as an exhibit, the tabulated statement last above referred to. The statement is as follows:

Rail Shipments from Buffalo, of Wheat, Corn, Oats and Rye, May

Rail Receipts at New York, of Wheat, Corn, Oats and Rye, May

Canal Shipments from Buffalo of Wheat, Corn, Oats and Rye.

Canal Receipts at New York of Wheat, Corn, Oats and Rye.

Q. As a broker, does your customer, at times, request a line over which he desires his grain to be shipped? A. He would provided he had previously made a contract with that line.

Q. Do they make such a contract? A. They do from Buffalo. Q. Do they from New York? A. That is from Buffalo to New York, or it might be Buffalo to Boston.

Q. Is it customary for grain merchants in New York to make contracts-that is, for a period of three months or for a seasonfor their grain shipments to outports or New York? A. I could not answer that intelligently. It might be and it might not. From Buffalo it might be. You understand that Buffalo is a sort of initial point of shipment. We buy goods from the West and the Lakes to Buffalo and there it ends and the man who has bought it makes his freight rate from Buffalo to New York.

Mr. Fairchild here introduced in evidence, as an exhibit, a statement prepared by Mr. S. F. Engs, as promised by him when he was before the Commission on June 21st, showing the shipments of his firm for the years 1897 and 1898, which statement is as follows: