Senator MCCUMBER. We are very much obliged to you, Mr. Thurmond. We will now hear from Mr. Schilling for a short time on the dairy question. Mr. HAGENBARTH. Mr. Chairman, with your permission. I would like to make a correction in my testimony. I understand I was understood as saying that the National Wool Warehouse in Chicago had advanced 36 cents a pound on the 40,000,000 pounds of wool that they have. The advance is 26 cents instead of 36 cents. STATEMENT OF MR. W. F. SCHILLING, NORTHFIELD, MINN., PRESIDENT TWIN CITY MILK PRODUCERS' ASSOCIATION. Mr. SCHILLING. Mr. Chairman, I am a farmer, living at Northfield, Minn. My business is raising diversified farm products. Also I am president of the Twin City Milk Producers' Association, an organization composed of 3,500 farmers producing and marketing milk, and also making about 3 carloads of cheese and 3 carloads of butter a week and selling it cooperatively. It is strictly a farmers' cooperative organization from start to finish. I am interested primarily in the marketing of butter and cheese at the present time and the condition of that market relative to the foreign products that are coming into our country. I want to say to you that in the year 1917 there were 1,307,750 pounds of butter imported into this country. Senator THOMAS. Have you the export figures? Mr. SCHILLING. No; I do not have those here. Senator THOMAS. Have you any idea of the amount? Mr. SCHILLING. I could not give it to you; no, sir. I am here in the place of Mr. Campbell, the president of the National Producers' Association, who had to leave the city at noon. Senator THOMAS. Are you prepared to say whether there is any export or not? Mr. SCHILLING. I presume there was in 1917? Senator THOMAS. The same year you have given. Mr. SCHILLING. I can not give you that. In 1919 there were 9,519,000, and in the first 10 months of this year there were 30,642,000 pounds of butter imported into this country. I want to say to you that we, as dairymen in the Central Westand I believe we are in the very heart of the best dairy section in the world-have something over 900 cooperative creameries in our country, and the product is all marketed and made as cheaply as it can be made anywhere in America, the expense of manufacturing being about 8 per cent, costing about 2 to 3 cents a pound to manfacture that butter at these cooperative plants at the present time. Senator NUGENT. You are aware of the fact, are you not, that neither butter nor cheese is included in this bill? Mr. SCHILLING. Yes; we would like to have them included. Senator NUGENT. It is your desire to have the bill so amended, then, so as to include a tariff duty on both butter and cheese? Mr. SCHILLING. Butter and cheese, yes; and also on the milk. Now, there is not a very vast amount of liquid milk brought into this country, except over the Canadian border; I can not say exactly how much, but I should think around 700,000 pounds a month. But my object is this, putting the proposition as I see it as a practical fariner in our country. I want to emphasize this fact, that I believe you people will recognize that the dairy industry, or the cow, is the cornerstone and backbone of successful agriculture all over the world, not alone in this country but everywhere else. In other words, it is the backbone of the feeding of the American people and the people everywhere. I think most of us realize that, and that the effect of this foreign material coming in here in such large quantities is going to drive these people out of business. Let me illustrate. Yesterday I was down at a building here in your own city of Washington. I met there a farmer who lives in Virginia and supplies his milk to Washington. He said he was milking 25 gallons of milk a day, and he was the fiftieth one within two weeks who came in and said it was impossible, that they had turned his milk down and he could not sell his milk. That is a very serious situation. Senator NUGENT. Why had that action been taken? Snator THOMAS. Well, we consumers have to pay just about the same as we did during the war. Senator NUGENT. Was that condition attributed to the importation of milk into the country? Mr. SCHILLING. The importation of dairy products, very largely, because it is backing up milk in every center. It is closing up the condensaries everywhere. Senator NUGENT. I knew that the one in my State, near where I live, had closed down some time since, but I did not know they had been closing generally. M. SCHILLING. Practically generally. Senator THOMAS. Do you not think that that indicates in some degree a decrease in the purchasing power of the people? Mr. SCHILLING. Well, I could not say that exactly. Up to this date it has not affected-up to September that would not have affected anybody, the decrease in purchasing power, because things were practically normal in September. Senator THOMAS. When you say that right around here near Washington the farmers are unable to sell their milk it is astonishing to me. Mr. SCHIILNG. It works this way. There is from 4 to 5 per cent of the milk in this country that goes to the condensaries. You close those condensaries, and where are those fellows going to put that stuff? They have no factory, the thing is shut down, and they have no way to manufacture it into butter. Senator THOMAS: Was this Virginia dairyman selling to a condenser? Mr. SCHILLING. No; he was selling here on the local market. There were 50 of them within two weeks. Senator THOMAS. I am not questioning your statement, but it is a remarkable fact. Mr. SHILLING. It is so in every large city in the country. It is because of the fact that there is so much importation of butter and cheese and these other things. When you increase in 10 months time from 9,000,000 to 30,000,000 pounds of importation Senator THOMAS. How has that affected the prices here? Mr. SCHILLING. Well, I do not know as to that, but still quite materially to the consumer, a great deal more so than with meat. The prices of dairy products are far below those of any other farm commodities and also the prices of manufactured goods. They have been running below them all. Senator MCLEAN. Just how does the importation of cheese and butter affect the consumption of fresh milk? Mr. SCHILLING. It has not affected the consumption of milk. We are selling practically $4,000,000 worth of milk. It has not affected the price of milk in St. Paul or Minneapolis. The consumption of milk in those cities has increased rather than decreased. Senator MCLEAN. Then why has the market for fresh milk in Washington been so curtailed that the farmers are compelled to dispose of their herds? Mr. SCHILLING. I can not tell you that; you would have to get that yourself. Senator NUGENT. Do you suppose they have curtailed the supply in order to maintain high prices? I am referring to the dealers. Mr. SCHILLING. I do not know as to that, Senator. Senator NUGENT. If there were 50 farmers who within a period of two weeks found themselves unable to sell their supply of milk to the dealers in this city and there has been no reduction of the price to the consumer, would that tend to indicate to your mind that it was the policy of the dealers to curtail the supply of milk in order to maintain the high prices? Mr. SCHILLING. Unfortunately, Senator, I do not know the conditions with reference to milk in Washington, but here is what prevailed in our State: I am the president of the organization that furnishes the milk to St. Paul and Minneapolis, and I know that when the supply of milk is increased we have lowered the price and the consumption increased. I want to say to you, too, that it was because of our cooperative organization that that was done. Senator SIMMONS. Have you the figures that show the annual production in this country of this condensed milk you were speaking about? Mr. SCHILLING. Not the figures, only that it is about 4 to 5 per cent of the total product of milk in America that goes into the form of condensed product. Senator SIMMONS. You gave us some figures as to importation a while ago. Mr. SCHILLING. That was butter, not condensed milk. Senator MCLEAN. Is the consumption of fresh milk decreasing, or is it increasing? Mr. SCHILLING. I can not say relative to that. But I want to say it is very significant that the production of butter in America has fallen off greatly in the last year. Senator MCLEAN. The consumption? Mr. SCHILLING. The production, I say; not the consumption. The production of butter is falling off and will continue to fall off. Now, just a few words, and I will give you what to me, as a farmer who is interested in the eight children I have at home Senator THOMAS. Just a moment. Some gentleman in the audience here has handed me this statement, and I will put it into the record in connection with the question I asked. The retail price of milk here in Washington now is 18 cents a quart. Mr. SCHILLING. That is the retail price here. Senator McLEAN. It is from 18 cents to 30 cents. That is, one quality; if you want the best milk in the market here you must pay 30 cents. Senator THOMAS. Eighteen-cent milk is good enough for me; I am a salaried man. Senator MCLEAN. It runs from 18 to 30 cents. Senator SIMMONS. You gave certain figures as to importation, but I did not understand what production you were speaking about. Mr. SCHILLING. It was the importation of butter that I referred to. Senator SIMMONS. Now, can you give us the annual production of butter in this country? Mr. SCHILLING. I have that here Senator MCLEAN. I was wondering why the general consumers' strike throughout the country on almost every necessity had not finally touched milk. Have they got the price so high that the consumption has decreased? Mr. SCHILLING. Have you ever studied, Senator, the food value of milk relative to that of other products? Senator MCLEAN. I have read the statement many times. Mr. SCHILLING. That is the last thing that people will go without. A man will stand a raise of 25 cents a drink on whisky, but not on milk. Senator MCLEAN. Gasoline is the last thing he will go without. Senator NUGENT, What is milk selling for per quart in your section at retail? Mr. SCHILLING. Twelve cents. Now, I would like to give you something here that will interest you gentlemen as Senators living in different parts of this country. I want to say to you that our cooperative organization has served this purpose, that when milk sold at 14 cents a quart throughout America in the majority of the cities the farmers received 6 cents a quart and the distributor of the milk received 8 cents. In our two big cities of St. Paul and Minneapolis the farmer received 8 cents and the distributor received 6 cents. There is the most striking example of practical cooperation and what cooperative industry can do, I think, that has ever been exemplified in America. You asked me what the production of butter was. The production of butter in 1919, as sent to the four leading markets-New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Boston-was 431,846,100 pounds, and in 1920 only 370,381,000 pounds, a falling off of over 100,000,000 pounds. Senator SIMMONS. How much did you say was imported? Mr. SCHILLING. We imported in 1920, 30,642,000 pounds, as against 1,307,000 in 1917. Senator MCCUMBER. What effect has that had on the price of butter? Mr. SCHILLING. It has brought it down. Senator McCUMBER. How much has it decreased? Mr. SCHILLING. Between 40 and 50 per cent. Senator MCLEAN. What is the wholesale price of butter? Mr. SCHILLING. I would say, offhand, about 55 cents a pound. Senator THOMAS. And what is it at retail? Mr. SCHILLING. I do not know that. We take our butter home from our cooperative factory and have it charged back on the milk. Senator MCCUMBER. Do you mean to say it was from 40 to 50 per cent higher than that before? Mr. SCHILLING. Yes: that is, that the slide has been about that. Senator SIMMONS. What was the price before the war? Mr. SCHILLING. The wholesale price before the war was around 34 or 36 cents per pound, New York prices. Cheese is something we are interested in. At the present time cheese is only 19 cents by the carload, and hard to sell. We make three carloads a week, and it is very hard to sell it. Now, I asked these gentlemen, these farmers that came in here yesterday, "What condition are you in? Haven't you anything else on your farm to sell?" He says, "Absolutely nothing; I owe a lot of bills, and I have got to sell that milk and get the money to pay those bills. There is no market, they say, and I can not sell it." That is an awful condition. In our country we have some potatoes and a little wheat, corn, and oats, but this fellow had nothing else. I said, "Are you going to sell your cows?" He said, "I can not; they cost me from $150 to $200 apiece, and I can not sell them for $50 apiece.” But the point is this, gentlemen: Must we raise our childrenwell, I won't say our children, because I want my children to work. I want my kinds to milk cows. I want them to work. I want them all to work. But I do not want my wife to milk cows, and yet the women of Denmark are producing this butter, and the butter that comes in here is produced by women entirely. I have had some Danes working for me on my farm. The man had never milked a cow in his life, but the woman--although she was not required to do anything but housework-could milk a cow, and she said the women of Denmark did all of what we call man's work. Senator MCCUMBER. About what protection do you think you ought to have? Mr. SCHILLING. I would say from 6 to 10 cents a pound on butter. Senator McCUMBER. How about cheese? Mr. SCHILLING. Well, say from 7 to 15 cents, Senator. Senator MCCUMBER. Very well; we are very much obliged to you, Mr. Schilling. Is there any one else that desires to be heard on this subject? STATEMENT OF MR. A. M. LOOMIS, SECRETARY NATIONAL DAIRY UNION, WASHINGTON, D. C. Mr. LOOMIS. Mr. Chairman, we are making arrangements for the putting of the official figures on this situation into the record on Monday, if we may have permission. I represent the National Dairy Union as its secretary. Prof. George L. McKay, secretary of the National Creamery and Butter Association, will be here. STATEMENT OF MR. PRAGER MILLER, ROSWELL, N. MEX., PRESIDENT OF THE NEW MEXICO WOOL GROWERS' ASSOCIATION. Mr. MILLER. Conditions surrounding the sheep industry of New Mexico and the Southwest at this time are extremely critical, and without the relief expected through the enact |