of renewing it, but also to examine into the conduct of those who had carried it into effect. He had detained their Lordships longer than he could have wished, but he was anxious that the conduct of his Majesty's Government and the nature of the measure should be thoroughly explained, particularly as to the point in which this Bill differed from the Act of last Session. The noble Earl concluded by moving, "that the Bill be read a first time." to this question. He could not think | ment at this early period, not only to but that they would see it was necessary enable them to consider of the necessity the Government should be provided with power to check in time an association which must be dangerous to the public peace; and, from the statements he had made, he hoped he might say, with some degree of confidence on the part of Government, that, if their Lordships intrusted these powers to their hands, their Lordships had a security in their former conduct that it would not be abused. It was not necessary to detain their Lordships much longer; and he hoped that, after what he had stated as to the general The Earl of Wicklow could not withcondition of Ireland, and as to the effect hold his humble meed of approbation from of this law, where it had been carried the speech of the noble Earl, not only on into execution, with respect to insur- account of the clear and satisfactory rectionary offences, and that important manner in which the noble Earl had branch of it which went to prevent political brought the subject before their Lordships, meetings, he might venture to solicit, that but also for the honest and manly course the Bill might meet with favour in their which he had taken when he thought it Lordships' eyes, so far as that it might be his duty again to come forward and perread a first time to-night. There remained form what must be to him a most disonly one point to which it was necessary agreeable and painful task. He fully for him to revert, and that was the time concurred in the Motion of the noble for which the law should be renewed. He Earl, but he would beg to remind the wished he could judge that, within any noble Lord, that the reason given on a very short or given period, the state of former occasion for creating Courts-marIreland was likely to be such as to remove tial, was the inefficiency of the Juries of the necessity of these or similar powers, the country. If his Majesty's Governto strengthen the hands of the Government had received any information which ment against the offences contemplated led them to believe, that the Juries were by this Bill. But although he could not now prepared to perform their duty in a hold out such an expectation, yet he manner in which they were not able last certainly thought that, in a case of this year to discharge it, he regretted that the nature, when great and extraordinary noble Earl had not taken an opportunity powers were given to the Government, it of stating it. should be for a limited and short time, so as to give to the country a security that they must, of necessity, be brought under the revision of Parliament, which should be enabled to examine in what manner those powers had been exercised, so as to form a deliberate judgment as to the necessity of resorting again to any similar measures, according to circumstances. He should, therefore, with this view, propose the extension of this Act only to the 1st of August, 1835, being an additional year from the time when it would expire, and he trusted their Lordships would feel that, while his Majesty's Government were endeavouring to provide against those dangers which called for extraordinary enactments, at the same time they were not inattentive to the principles of the Constitution, but were desirous of bringing the subject under the attention of ParliaVOL. XXIV. {id} Third Earl Grey had intended, but had forgotten to do so. He had certainly stated that, in the opinion of competent persons, the quarter sessions would be the proper tribunal to investigate offences under the Bill; and he could add, that recent trials had shown, that Juries were not now deterred from doing their duty. The Earl of Wicklow said, that the Bill in its mitigated shape must give satisfaction. He would beg leave to observe, however, that it was last year accompanied by a Bill for the change of venue, and when he urged that the latter Bill should be continued for five years, the answer of the noble Earl was, that it would be better it should be enacted only for the same time as the Coercion Bill, and that it should be open for Parliament again to consider it. He hoped the noble Earl had turned his attention to this point. 2 L There was one more subject upon which he wished to say a word. It had been trumpeted forth by all the declaimers upon the ills of Ireland, that there was one only cure for the disturbances of that country -namely, the tithes, and that, if that cause were taken away, there would be no occasion for Coercion Bills, nor soldiers to enforce them. Now, it appeared from the noble Earl's statement, that the disturbances had not materially decreased, except where the Bill was in force, and yet the tithes had not, during the whole time, been collected, or demanded in Ireland. This proved that tithes were not the cause of the disturbances. The Bill was read a first time. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Tuesday, July 1, 1834. MINUTES.] Petitions presented. By Lord TULLAMORE, from three Places, for Protection to the Established Church; from Falmouth, for the Better Observance of the Lord's Day.-By Mr. POULETT THOMSON, from Manchester and Salford, for the Repeal of the Stamp Duties on Receipts. By Dr. LUSHINGTON, Mr. VIGORS, and Sir SAMUEL WHALLEY, from several Metropolitan Parishes, against the Poor-Law Amendment Bill. POOR-LAWS' AMENDMENT THIRD READING.] Lord Althorp moved, that the Poor-law Amendment Bill be read a third time. Mr. Hodges rose to oppose the third reading of the Bill, and to move as an Amendment, that it be read a third time that day six months. The thinness of the House, of which he must complain, for there ought to have been a greater number of Members present at that important stage of the measure, he took to be a proof, that something like a compact had been entered into relative to the passing of this Bill. The promoters and supporters of the Bill had said, that it was intended for the benefit of the country, and that it would be a great boon to the agriculturists. He denied that it would be a benefit. There was no one that suffered more severely from the operation of the present Poor-law system than he did, and consequently there ought to be no one more willing to get rid of it and to support the present Bill if that were calculated to effect its pretended object. But he could not support it, since no argument that he yet had heard had persuaded him, that the agricultural interests would be in the smallest degree benefitted by the passing of the present measure out in the barracks in that town. About, ten days afterwards, he received an express from Hastings, desiring that he would immediately go there, for dysentery and fever prevailed among the prisoners to a most alarming extent, and the surgeon attributed it entirely to the alteration in the quality of the bread. He went there immediately, and in consequence of the representations of the surgeon, they disposed of all the bread of that quality, and procured a supply of the description before in use. He certainly was afraid that an alteration in the food of the poor in workhouses would lead to a general evil of this description. Besides, the system of unions deprecated by the poor, would aggravate their discontent, and alienate them from their neighbours and the farmers. He could see nothing more cruel than to refuse relief after June, 1835, to able-bodied paupers who might be willing to work; and he maintained, that they ought to receive parish relief unless work were provided for them. He dreaded no part of the Bill more than the fourth provision of it, by which it would be enacted, that no able-bodied labourer would be entitled to relief out of the poorrates after June, 1835. He had very great fears as to the effect this part of the Bill would have on the labourers of the country. He felt strongly on the subject, because he was one of those who was anxious that the Government of the country should be carried on quietly. He was satisfied, however, that those who would be anxious to enforce the law in the country districts would be obliged to fly-that it would no longer be safe for them to remain there, and that life and property would not be secure in such places after the passing of this law. It had been said by the advocates of the measure that it would increase the rents of the landlords. It could have no such effect. It would be impossible to increase the value of property by such means. The present Bill was, however, the sequel of that passed in the year 1819, and perhaps a necessary consequence of that. However, he was sure, that many hon. Gentlemen would not have voted for the former measure if they had anticipated what would have been the effect of it; and he was sure they would have taken some precautionary steps to save the country from the consequences of such a violent change as would be produced by the present Bill. The present Bill, he repeated, was a sequel to that of 1819; but, if introduced at all, it should have been with some concomitant measure, such as, for instance, a Bill for the relief of the poor in Ireland. There ought also to be a provision to make an alteration in the Malt-tax as soon as that part of the Bill came into operation in 1835, which would throw the poor upon their own resources. He deprecated the intention of throwing the poor back upon their own resources, particularly since Parliament had in a great measure stripped them of all resource. Unless some new mode of finding labour and employment for the poor should be adopted the consequence of this measure would be, that the poor, in spite of everything, would be thrown upon the parishes, and the agricultural distress would be considerably increased. He would be glad to know, where there was an opening for employment for the poor. There was none in agriculturenone in the mines-none anywhere else that he knew of; and yet after June, 1835, they were to obtain no relief out of the poor-rates. But Gentlemen might think that unemployed labourers would be willing to emigrate, and when he spoke of his fears about the effects of sudden changes they might say, that no change in the laws could take place without creating a certain amount of discontent and partial collisions. To be sure the discontented might be put down if they were in the wrong; but when they had justice on their side, and were goaded on by their grievances, the recollection of any collision between them and the police or soldiery to put them down would be never effaced from their minds. All might recollect the melancholy affair of Manchester. It had never been forgotten by the people, and still remained rankling in their memories. He recollected an affair which took place many years ago at Bristol about bridge-tolls, which the people refused to pay, and which the Magistrates would not take off. The people came into collision with the authorities and were fired upon by the Hereford Militia. They never forgot the aggression, and when many years afterwards that regiment passed through the town it was received with general execration, though perhaps there did not remain a single man in it who had anything to do with previously firing upon the people. He cited this as a proof that the people never forgot col- | Amendment. He felt the utmost confilisions that took place between themselves dence in the well-known ability and and the soldiery, and the apprehension of knowledge of his hon. friend on all matters such collisions was one reason why he relating to the Poor-laws, and was of objected to the passing of the present opinion that the objections to this Bill had measure. Was it just, that nothing should not been fully stated nor met with suffibe done to stop the emigration of Irish cient attention. There had been 103 pelabourers to this country? He believed titions, with 9,000 signatures against the that full 500,000 of them came to this Bill. Twenty-five of the largest towns, country, and yet nothing was done to and ten of the largest parishes in and near protect the home-market of labour for the London, had petitioned, not against the English labourer. If the Irish labourers details, but against the principle of the were removed from London it would tend Bill, including Bristol, Birmingham, greatly to relieve the distress of the Eng- Leeds, Huddersfield, Halifax, Glocester, lish labourers in the metropolitan counties, Exeter, Oxford, Westminster, Wakefield, since those counties would then supply and many others. The meetings had the metropolis with labourers, and in that been duly convened, and men experienced way get rid of their surplus labouring in matters of the poor had protested population. The House should do justice against the Central Board and its powers, to the English labourer and to English the system of workhouses, and of Union, property by making those burthens fall and the settlement and bastardy clauses. equally on Irish property, which now fell ex- He objected to the workhouse system as clusively on English property. The hon. a condition of relief; it was no part of the Member for Essex had on a former night 43rd of Elizabeth. Work, but not workstated that the measure was a most im- houses, was the principle of that Act. portant one, and that the House should There was nothing in the Act about workproceed with it very cautiously. He houses, though convenient dwellings regretted that that hon. Member was might be built for the poor under section not then present to support his opinion, 5. A workhouse necessarily occasioned and that he had not on a former oc- a moral mischief. Let it be framed with casion expressed his opinions more what regulations, rules, and orders it largely on the subject. With respect to might, it was an inherent defect in human the Report of the Poor-Law Commis- nature that large masses of the population sioners he acknowledged that it showed placed within the same walls would be proofs of their industry and talent; but contaminated. The Poor-law report admany portions of it showed that they had mitted at page 172-that in superior houses, been too much addicted to fishing for well managed, having 800 to 1,000 inmates, questions and answers, which made him a rapid extension of vicious connexion was entertain less respect for that Report than inevitable. He used the same words. other hon. Members. He did not envy He had seen many workhouses. One of the Commissioner that would be obliged the best was on the frontier of Hollandto go into the southern counties of Eng- a well-managed colony, yet after all it was land and tell the labourers they would be but a species of civilized slavery. There compelled to live in the same way as the was moral mischief in all workhouses, only labourers of the northern counties, and to be justified by the necessity of imposthat their wheaten loaf was to be changed ing a check on the idle and the profligate. into a barley one. The reception of such He condemned work houses, not as an a Commissioner in the South would not appendage to other measures, but as a be a very kindly one. The effect of this system, to which the Bill evidently pointed Bill would be to exasperate the labourers through all its various provisions. Before of the southern counties, and to weaken the workhouse system could be applied, their attachment and allegiance to the the actual state of the labourers of EngGovernment of the country. He was land should be studied. He found on sure, if they were anxious to uphold the examination that vast masses of the ablesecurity of property in the country, they bodied were in the habit of receiving reshould pause before they agreed to this lief. He had nothing to do with the syslast stage of the Bill. The hon. Member tem à priori; it might be bad; it was concluded by proposing his Amendment. bad: but it had been acted on for forty years; and there it was. He found the Sir Henry Willoughby seconded the hand-loom weavers of Manchester, Sal- Commissioner, Mr. Stuart, "Who is now ford, Carlisle, mechanics in Clerkenwell, to rush among the unhappy victims of a artificers in Birmingham, silk people in bad system, and select those who are to Coventry and Bethnal-green, the hosiers be shut up in a work house, or to be stigof Worcester, Tewkesbury, Hinckley, matized by a badge?" Again, take the stocking-makers in Nottingham, 3,000 case of Battle. There was a surplus of spinners in Trowbridge and the West of labour-eighty men out of employ in England, all received relief in aid of wages. summer, and the report says, all in winter. The hon. member for Manchester had Be it so-build a workhouse-the unforetold the total ruin of the hand-loom married may do well for a time-the marweaver if aid were withheld, where the ried would go into the workhouse? When loom was borrowed, and who was kept in would they come out?-their home was competition with machinery by a small gone-their household goods were sold; and weekly relief. Remove such a man they must remain indefinitely in the workinto a workhouse, and he was ruined for house, and moral mischief would ensue. ever. In the country it was not better. The emigration clause caused a debate; Two hundred and twenty parishes gave he heard with pleasure the observations of a return of redundant labour. What was his hon. friend, the member for Wolverthe language of the Committee of the hampton on the necessity of a sound sysHouse of Commons in 1828?-that re- tem of emigration; but why? The argudundant labour was the cause of the ment itself implied a surplus populamisery of the peasantry, and of low wages. tion, at least in some places. If so, it One-half of the county of Suffolk received was fatal to the workhouse system as a relief. There was a proportion of 133 general plan. The House had no right, persons in Sussex to do the work of 100. as it must have no inclination, so to deal Mr. Day, an able Magistrate, calculated with a surplus population. The right 8,000 surplus labourers in the rapes of hon. member for Cambridge agreed in the Sussex. Could the House sanction a necessity of a good plan of emigration. workhouse system to be applied to such He eulogized, and justly, Sir Wilmot districts? Grant the system was good Horton; but he forgot the conclusion of for the idle and worthless, who preyed on Sir Wilmot Horton's report, which says the funds of the parish, could overseers "it is impossible to do anything for Engplace within the walls of a workhouse land by emigration unless you apply yourthose who were willing to work, and whose self to Ireland, whose population will only fault was they could find no one pro- quickly fill up any vacuum, and reduce the vided with funds to employ them? He labouring classes to an uniform state of put this question strongly, because he felt it degradation and misery." That suggested was unanswerable. If it were true, as some an important consideration. It was urged of the Assistant-Commissioners seemed to that the Legislature was about to throw think, that all parties applying for relief the English labourer on his resources. were mendicants, if not rogues, whose He would say take care, you know what title was based on a portion of idleness, those resources are, and see that the laand of which the most was made accord- bourer has fair play. The vast mass of ing as he was expert in lying and intimid- taxation fell on the shoulders of the proation, to use the expressions of Mr. ductive classes: the sum of 26,000,0007. Cowell, the system might be good. of public revenue were levied on the food But take the hundred of Corford. The and drink of the people, to say nothing population amounted to 7,877 people of other taxation. Let them take care those who received relief to 4,304. This how they applied a strict workhouse system hundred was once the seat of a flourishing to such a state of financial policy. He woollen manufacture; but the powers of approved of the policy, in 1796, of securmachinery had silenced the knitting ing a minimum of wages to the English needle, the shuttle, and the spinning labourer. At that time the deluge of wheel and the distaff, yet the Laws of Set- paper money was about to break forth, tlement bound the people to their parishes. producing on money prices the same Could the House sanction a workhouse effect as the discovery of mines in America system in such a district, without becom- in the reign of Elizabeth; at that time the ing parties to an act of injustice? He allowance system so far protected the joined in the eloquent language of the lower classes-famine and other evils were |